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Has ATS Become Irrelevant for 9/11 Discussions?

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posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 11:46 AM
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I was a long time reader of this website before I decided to begin throwing in my two cents, and initially, there were some fantastic, level headed, wonderful conversations about the conspiracies behind the 9/11 attacks. It was thoroughly informative and thought provoking.

But then something happened. There was an attitude shift, and now, instead of a level headed debate, we have simple name calling and thread hijacking. Someone will post a new thread, and a person who does not agree with the theory that is being presented will change the topic of discussion completely. Sometimes the effect is very subtle, other times it is very obvious, and both regular members and moderators are guilty of this asanine tactic.

Both sides of the debate (those who espouse the official story, and those who support alternative collapse theories) are guilty of doing this, although I will admit, I've seen this tactic used much more frequently by those who back the governments official story, and I'm just wondering does this mean that ATS is no longer a place for debating serious topics, and instead has become a place not to disimilar to the political arena, where once your mind is made up, there is no room for discussion and debate?

Are we no better than the politicians who bicker over the flag burning amendment, rather than discussing issues of importance and merit? Are we so anxious to accuse one another of being "COINTELPRO" or "Concpiracy Loons" that we can no longer have an intelligent discussion about the evidence, or lack there of, behind these conspiracy theories?

If this is the case, I am incredibly saddened, and will stop wasitng my time reading the 9/11 forum, and stick to the areas were people's opinions are actually discussed, as opposed to distorted and avoided.




posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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thats the problem with having a free discussion

i assure you ATS is still a fine place to find information and debates / discussions

you just have to ignore the thread hijackers, as i do

dont let it get to you man, just keep focused and keep posting your thoughts directly about the threads subject, and if someone hijacks it, point it out and scold it, and continue on with lively discussion / debate



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by Athenion
There was an attitude shift, and now, instead of a level headed debate, we have simple name calling and thread hijacking. Someone will post a new thread, and a person who does not agree with the theory that is being presented will change the topic of discussion completely. Sometimes the effect is very subtle, other times it is very obvious, and both regular members and moderators are guilty of this asanine tactic.


Just give it a bit, mate.

The Admin have been seeing the direction ATS has started to turn in the last couple of months and evidently they don't like it either. They have instituted the new rules about hijacking threads with inane political banter, political namecallling and such, as well as just the general hijacking of threads from the original topic to something completely different. I have seen several warnings in threads from MODS asking and then directing members to stay on topic or get back to the topic or the thread will be closed.

I share your frustration and from some other posts that I have read, many share your frustration. I guess it is just a sort of growing pains for ATS.

But from what I see, the Admin are trying their best to implement policies that should make us all a bit more happy.

JDub



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:38 PM
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I think the biggest thing is that all the threads just rehash and rehash the same things from both ends of the spectrum. Nothing entirely new to debate which opens up the personal attack/ thread jacking stuff. Get a new theory or piece of evidence out there and things would perk up again.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
I think the biggest thing is that all the threads just rehash and rehash the same things from both ends of the spectrum. Nothing entirely new to debate which opens up the personal attack/ thread jacking stuff. Get a new theory or piece of evidence out there and things would perk up again.


Great point. I agree entirely. Nothing new and therefore stagnation. I too am frustrated with our beloved ATS. I have feared for a while that it's not long for this world. THEY may have succeeded in diminishing the open discourse. Hooray for THEM!



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
I think the biggest thing is that all the threads just rehash and rehash the same things from both ends of the spectrum. Nothing entirely new to debate which opens up the personal attack/ thread jacking stuff. Get a new theory or piece of evidence out there and things would perk up again.


I feel that this is the desired effect of supressing the evidence. DEbate can only go on so long UNLESS the evidence is released.

I fell people on both sides should DEMAND the evidence be released. It is the property of the American people, media outlets and others. It can quickly lay to rest so much if not all of this.

I guess, maybe the only thing left to debate is WHY is there not more evidence?



Never underestimate the power of boredom either.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:46 PM
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If you see a thread being hijacked or derailed than by all means hit the complain button at the top of the page. Include a link to the thread and who you believe is disrupting it. It will be investigated and corrective action will be taken if needed.

This is a very large site and sometimes the mods just don't catch everything that is going on. We appreciate help from the membership when were tied up dealing with something else.

Together we can keep this the best discussion board on the net.

wupy



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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Thanks for starting this thread. While you might think it odd that one of "the Amigos" is thanking someone for a thread like this, you'll know soon enough...


Originally posted by Athenion
I was a long time reader of this website before I decided to begin throwing in my two cents, and initially, there were some fantastic, level headed, wonderful conversations about the conspiracies behind the 9/11 attacks. It was thoroughly informative and thought provoking.


I agree. I'd say some of our best and brightest 9/11-centric content peaked about 15 months ago... but that was around the same time the entire Internet hit it's 9/11-frenzy.



I am incredibly saddened, and will stop wasitng my time reading the 9/11 forum, and stick to the areas were people's opinions are actually discussed, as opposed to distorted and avoided.


I won't quote the rest of your post, but I've been considering a similar idea... and it's potentially more alarming that one site falling from topical grace.

Has 9/11 conspiracy theory discussion become irrelevant?

This idea had broader implications beyond our attempts to manage a balanced debate here. If you review the content related to 9/11 conspiracies across the Internet, the spectrum of the unimaginably vast quantity of material runs the gamut from angry "official story" advocates to psychotic ramblings of bizarre ideas. There is so much distracting "chatter", the signal-to-noise ratio on these topics has successfully scuttled attempts to engage in serious discussion.

And we must wonder... was it planned that way?

How many of the "most crazy" ideas are part of a campaign to deflect and discredit conspiracy speculation?

Even well-regarded researchers within the "9/11 Truth Movement" are beginning to speculate the many (if not most) of the impossible theories are fabrications to create this impossible environment.


If this is really happening... what can we do?



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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It's just the nature of the Internet and people in general. "They" don't need to create anything other than to just sit back and let nature take its course. Bring up any topic and there'll be opinions on all sides. Some opinions will be well thought out and based on fact and logic, and some...won't.

Cognitive dissonance eventually kicks in and anyone with a strong belief in anything will seek out information (true or not) that is consistent with their own view. If people encounter information that increases dissonance, they are extremely likely to discount that information, either by ignoring it, misinterpreting it, or denying it.

So, just my HO, no conspiracy required. There'll always be more noise vs. signal in an open forum, especially in controversial topics, and unless there's some way to change human nature, there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

Okay, Maybe this. Individual symptomatic relief only.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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~~

since the gov't has locked up the relevent info
and put forth their own 'official' version of 9-11

one has to rely on independent investigations & researchers....

this is an expensive book from Amazon..or whomever...
but the link provides some information you could find useful

such as the list of similar & related books/presentations/ideas,
in the 9-11 galaxy of independent thoughts & possibilities
and
if you scroll down to the section: EDITORIAL REVIEWS
one's scope of possibilities is enlarged

[sorry, the link to the amazon site might be viewed as a plug]

the book is $105.00

The Hidden History of 9-11-2001
by Paul Zarembca

___________________________

' Research in Political Economy '
volume 23



[edit on 12-7-2006 by St Udio]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
How many of the "most crazy" ideas are part of a campaign to deflect and discredit conspiracy speculation?

Hmm...I do wonder about the bombs in the buildings theory. This seems to have the power to divert people's attention to the greatest degree thus preventing them from looking in areas where one is more likely to find a 'smoking gun', i.e. failure of airborne defences on that day, which were part of a tried and tested system.

I suppose the best one can do is try to select the few salient points which one deems to be significant and keep trying to put one's point accross, however, I do sometimes feel like a dog chasing his tail!



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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The Broken Record

Anyone who follows the 9/11 forums knows exactly why this thread hits home.

We aren't getting anywhere, are we? :shk:

I discussed the phenomenon in this podcast back in June:

ATS.C: 9/11: The Broken Record

It always ends up the same way: one camp versus another, us versus them, name-calling, finger-pointing, slander and recriminations -- and nothing conclusive about the actual topic.

When I used to hang out in the 9/11 forum as a member, this was far and away my #1 complaint -- and why I *did* give up on the issue.

Yeah, I gave up on it. Walked away. Said "screw it" and decided to do other things and, with respect to 9/11, just watch and wait for something coherent to emerge.

At this rate, that should be some time in the next century.


Better Living Through Courtesy

I don't blame those members who are passionate about the issue and get caught up in this vicious circle. I don't think anyone here is out to deliberately cloud the waters.

They don't need to. We can do that on our own by forgetting the basic rules of civil discussion, and the 9/11 forum gives plenty of examples of that.


I don't have a comprehensive answer for the 9/11 forum -- I'm focused on Politics@AboveTopSecret.com (PTS) right now.

But I do know that a prerequisite for ever making any headway on the questions underlying 9/11 is courteous, topical discussion in accordance with the T&C.

And as a moderator for ATS/BTS/PTS, I intend to encourage such discussion whenever and wherever I can.

I ask all members to help by remembering to avoid being rude and staying on topic.

Without that, there's no hope.

With that, there remains a chance that we may yet be able to Deny Ignorance in the case of 9/11.

But it's up to us, because no one will do it for us.





P.S. Ironically, I was going to post about courtesy soon anyway. More on that in another thread.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 09:18 PM
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To the original thread author,

I have a suggestion and I'm not being sarcastic.

If the 9/11 theories are "piddling" out, or some of the posters are being rude.

Do the research, start a new thread with your hopefully new information or slant on the happenings, and debate those willing to intellectually debate you.

Trust me when I say, I have some small experience in posting controversial subjects and getting beat-up, but that will never deter me and it should not you either.

These wonderful people have created this wonderful site and allow, no encouraged me to put my research, my thoughts and opinions up and defend them. I am probably in the bottom 10% as far as my politics and opinions go, yet I am given an equal voice. You are too.

Don't wait for someone else to make a difference in something that you feel strongly about! Get out here and start something.

Semper



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