You dont have to be a genius to work that the current US strategy will fail in Iraq. By relying on sheer numbers of Iraqi security forces to contain the insurgency the US is achieving nothing expect for offering more targets to the insurgents. To a certain extend the insurgents need to became the hunted.

A small - medium elite security force is needed special forces in effect is needed. It would take longer to train an elite security force but it is Iraqs best chance of containg the insurgency.

Of course many people have overlooked the possibilitie that the Iraqi people could elect another Saddam type clone. The best case scenario for Iraq is a democratic government that faces a security situation much like Israel dose only worse.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by xpert11]

Well not really a suprize it is, the US is very good at invading countries, but lousy at anything else.

Maybe because US force were so gung ho and shot anything and everything on the way in. and have failed completey to win the hearts and minds of the iraqi people

when you go about raping and murding civilians, the local population tends to get abit upset. also with the insurgent problems they are now worse off then they were under saddam.

Look at Barsa, when the brits are in control, apart from the odd roadside bomb, there is no where near as much volience as there is in baghdad. The Brits took a different approach in basra and tried to win the hearts and minds of the local people, working with the mulla's to sort out the problems.

Even when 2 soliders where kidnapped and we went in to get them back, there wasnt that big of a backlash.

The US lost the war after abu griad, if you are going to intergate prisoners, which everyone does for intel, dont let some stupid hillbilly guard take pictures of it and then let those pictures get into the hand of the media.

When pic's appeared in a british tabliod of an "iraqi" being beaten up and P*** on in the back of truck. The Royal Miltairy police where all over it like greenpeace on a whaleing ship. they trace the truck within days and found out where it was and 3 soidlers where charged and booted out the army.

You have voted snakebite for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I pretty much agree with what Snakebite has said although it is worth pointing out that the bulk of the population live in northern Iraq. It should be pointed out that the majority of US military personal dont commit rape and other crimes in Iraq. The "war" hasnt been lost yet but it arent looking good.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by xpert11]

What exactly is winning the War?

Having a Mickey Dees on every corner?

Did we meet our objective in the War? Where is Saddam?

For the most part we are fighting foreign terrorist...

Our casualties are far less then theirs...3000 dead on our side doesnt not make a war lost..

Explain, how are we not winning the war?

Did anyone every think it was going to be in and out..It should have been expected that we would be in for the long haul on this one...

Whatever, the Brits are doing a good job maitaining peace in the south which is dominated by Shiites. However if you bring the Brits to the so called triangle of death, well then the Britishs be suffering as much casualties or near that number of casualties where American forces have. Wouldn't matter much since its mostly comprised of Sunnis who are out of power, and not to mention that Sunni foreign terrorists are in the area and fighting the American and Iraqi forces that are assigned to that Anbar province. Now could the Brits have done a better job? Maybe, however the situation where Sunnis are out of power and Shiites in power seems to suggest otherwise.

Id say if Iraq is a failure it stems from many things....

1. No clear cut objective..... you cant muddle about doing a little bit of this and that with soldiers who are trained to kill not build up the country.

2. Special Interest groups using media to sway public opinion of Iraq.....The loss of popular support comes from constant media poundings paid for and supported by people whose interest is anything but ending an unpopular war.

3. loss of support from allies for reasons or policies other than those of ethics. Economics plays a larger factor than Iraqi human rights does as sad as that is. The US not granting contracts to france and germany who sold iraq most of the weapons technology in the first place angered them plenty.

4. inability of the government to get proper supplies and equipment on a timely manner. (BIG one I have expiercenced).

5. the ultimate mistake was to invade a country that posed no real threat to the US or its allies. North Korea NOW poses more of a threat than Iraq ever did.
Iran is taking full advantage of US having much of its forces deployed in Iraq now as well. and Japan will have to gear its economy to weapons if it goes through with its threat to pre-emptively strike NK.

6. The scaling back of the US military under the clinton administration. strategic weapons SHOULD be reduced if other countries are as well However far more than that was cut.

7. I think this is really relevant to it...the contnued price guaging by oil companies (if we need more refinaries BUILD THEM!) which is stagnating the US economy.

Originally posted by hornitosmonster


Did anyone every think it was going to be in and out..It should have been expected that we would be in for the long haul on this one...

I distinctly remember seeing the President on the deck of a ship, with a big banner behind him proudly proclaiming MISSON ACOMPLISHED.

I also remember VP Cheney and Rumsfeld saying that we would be greeted in Iraq as heroes and the Iraqi oil would pay for the war. well.....

I am truly astonished at the short memory of the American People!

It still surprises me how members succumb to a 'us vs them' scenario. The fact of the matter is the U.S has far more soldiers than the U.K and I recall such footage of children being beaten up by U.K troops and taped. It is here I would like to add I am not from the U.S and thus this is not an oh so typical swipe back response.

The fact of the matter is neither the U.K nor the U.S is winning hearts and minds in Iraq, 'we' are seen more as the aggressors in the whole situation. Every force in Iraq, whether that be U.S or the U.K to Japan or Austrailia, we are all seen and preched to be the enemy.

This (IMO) is not a hearts and minds war. We will never be seen as the 'good guys' here to save the day and the people. In my eyes, too many people misunderstand the real IQ or intelligence behind Iraqis. These people are not stupid. I am more than convinced they can see for themselves the real reasons for the war and hence a backlash.

Originally posted by Knights
The fact of the matter is neither the U.K nor the U.S is winning hearts and minds in Iraq, 'we' are seen more as the aggressors in the whole situation. Every force in Iraq, whether that be U.S or the U.K to Japan or Austrailia, we are all seen and preched to be the enemy.

Add in the fact thats we (and the insurgents) are utterly destroying that country. Fallujah was absolutely devastated. We are the ones to blame for the insurgency in the first place. As many of these pathetic pro-war people tend to say, a lot of these guys are foreign terrorists that easily passed through unguarded borders at the onset of the war and continue to do so now.

I really can't blame the Iraqi people for hating us... we made their backyard our shooting gallery for our (laughable) "war on terror". No wonder they're so pissed.... we basically presented a challenge to anyone with the guts to raise a weapon against the US Military and said "come and get us." Well, they're doing just that and in the process, we're killing innocent people and destroying their homes. It amazes me how truly selfish the Bush supporters are. "At least they're not attacking us over here... we're taking the fight to them, yadda yadda". Great... so we don't have suicide bombings in downtown Washington D.C. And who cares about those brown-skinned people whose lives we're ruining... as long as we're nice and safe and cozy at home with our gigantic SUV Ford F-U mobiles, who cares if innocent people are dying? NOT ON MY BACKYARD!

First of all I see the game behind the so call war.

US is not losing any wars in Iraq.

Because US is not at war with Iraq.

US never declared war against the country of Iraq or the Iraqi people.

US declaration of war was against terrorism.

RESULTS OF POLL Taken in Iraq in August 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense (Source: Brookings Institute)

Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops - 82%
Iraqis who believe Coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security - less than 1%
Iraqis who feel less ecure because of the occupation - 67%
Iraqis who do not have confidence in multi-national forces - 72%
Iraqis who rarely have safe, clean water - 71%
Iraqis who never have enough electricity - 47%

Does this look like we're "winning the hearts of the Iraqis"? Also, when you're killing more civilians than insurgents, we're CLEARLY not winning the "war on terror" either.

I don't know what the numbers are now... but I'd be willing to wager the current stats are even more dismal.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by firebat]

Originally posted by whaaa


I distinctly remember seeing the President on the deck of a ship, with a big banner behind him proudly proclaiming MISSON ACOMPLISHED.

I also remember VP Cheney and Rumsfeld saying that we would be greeted in Iraq as heroes and the Iraqi oil would pay for the war. well.....

I am truly astonished at the short memory of the American People!

It never fails to amaze me how many so called "enlightened" individuals still sit in ignorance of that event. The "Mission Accomplished" banner was for the crew on that ship, who had indeed accomplished their mission. It was not meant for the whole war. This is common knowledge. Deny Ignorance.

Did you watch TV on April 9th when our troops took Baghdad? I did, and I recall people cheering in the streets and welcoming the US military.

I'm am truly astonished by the ignorance that completely overwhelms so many people. Short memories indeed.

It never fails to amaze me how many so called "enlightened" individuals still sit in ignorance of that event. The "Mission Accomplished" banner was for the crew on that ship, who had indeed accomplished their mission. It was not meant for the whole war. This is common knowledge. Deny Ignorance.

Did you watch TV on April 9th when our troops took Baghdad? I did, and I recall people cheering in the streets and welcoming the US military.

I'm am truly astonished by the ignorance that completely overwhelms so many people. Short memories indeed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and all of the countries who later came under Iron curtain from the Cold War, cheered on the Russians as they strolled in and Liberated them from Hitler. Funny how we forget how quickly love turns to hate, when hearts and minds are not won in the process.

-ADHD

[edit on 12-7-2006 by ADHDsux4me]

We won the war. We met our objectives. We are there now playing target dummy for anyone with a grudge because Bush is a moron on some self righteous mind trip.

I doubt he would want to stay in Iraq if his children where on the front line. Of course that would never happen.

We need to put Saddam on a plane to an American Prison and let Iraqis figure out thier countries future.

Bushes basic plan is to make American Soldiers the targets for the terrorist because he thinks that will keep the terrorists out of America. Sadly he forgets that the American guys in uniform are as important as any of us at home.

He thinks that if johny GI 19 year old is over there that the terrorists will focus their effort overseas on the GI 19 year old instead of at home on us. Even if this is true the American soldiers lives are every bit as important as any American at home.

Our efforts and billions of dollars should have been place on our borders and other entry points into America. Many less Americans would have died over the last 3 years if we did that. It would bolster our long term security right here at home and on our entry points instead of this short term short minded effort.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Xeven]

Originally posted by Langolier


It never fails to amaze me how many so called "enlightened" individuals still sit in ignorance of that event. The "Mission Accomplished" banner was for the crew on that ship, who had indeed accomplished their mission. It was not meant for the whole war. This is common knowledge. Deny Ignorance.
.

Strange though how the Presidents speech on that ship on that day didn't just reflect just on the crew of the ship but the war in general. Deny Ignorance indeed!

[edit on 12-7-2006 by whaaa]

[edit on 12-7-2006 by whaaa]