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Guantanamo Bay Detainees Will Finally Be Granted Geneva Rights

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posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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As I recall zappafan1 the IRC only did a cursory look inside GITMO because they objected to the procedures the military wanted to impose on them--namely direct access to the detainees without military guards being present.




posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Astronomer70
As I recall zappafan1 the IRC only did a cursory look inside GITMO because they objected to the procedures the military wanted to impose on them--namely direct access to the detainees without military guards being present.



That as I recall was the UN not the IRC. BBC news reported the IRC visits every 6-8 wks. The UN as I recall wanted the same access as the Red Cross and the US refused to do that since only a neutral party i.e., the IRC normally is allowed to have full access because they remain neutral.



BBC News
The three men who died - two Saudis and a Yemeni - had been visited by the ICRC, which sends delegates to Guantanamo every six to eight weeks.



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


It should be noted several sites have claimed the IRC released reports of their visits which is a conflict of what the IRC Claims they do not do, so you have to take all mention of alleged Red Cross/IRC statements with a grain of salt.



Red Cross

After surveying a prison, the ICRC's findings always remain confidential, Gordon-Bates said. If a country holding detainees were to fear that the ICRC would degrade it before the world, the organization could lose its credibility as a neutral party. "We want to ensure we have access to people in prisons around the world," Gordon-Bates said.




Example of one of those alledged reports

A confidential report by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) charges that the American military has intentionally engaged in methods “tantamount to torture” against prisoners at the US detention camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.





[edit on 7/12/2006 by shots]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:57 PM
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"flagrant violation of medical ethics.”


REPLY: .... does not mean torture. What you don't realize is that ALL advanced countries know that extreme torture produces no results worth a damn. We've known it for years.
You provide a link to Socialist website as being reliable? Socialists are mad because their economics don't work, and they hate every country that proves them wrong.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1


REPLY: ....
You provide a link to Socialist website as being reliable? Socialists are mad because their economics don't work, and they hate every country that proves them wrong.


I hope your reply was not directed at me? I clearly stated in the post that you have to take the information with a grain of salt because the information or alledged report might be bogus and the link to the socialist website was meant only to show an example of those bogus claims.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Way too late!!!!

Treat people like the human beings they are. If our suspected terrorists, are in fact terrorists then we take it from there and prosecute them with international law.

Stripping them down naked, beating them and humilating them, are certainly not Humane ways to treat a prisoner while international law applies.

-ADHD



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Thank you shots for correcting my faulty memory--sorry zappafan1.

ADHDsux4me; stripping? beating? humilitating? I don't know if I buy that going on at GITMO. Not saying it didn't, but certainly there has been no proof of such treatment.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Astronomer70]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer70

marg6043 I don't really think anyone, either inside or outside the government, regards the definition and/or use of torture as a joke.



You would be surprise as how many people think that torture is a good way to treat what they consider enemies.

Remember we are only humans after all.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Funny that many disregard and question the credibility of abuses of Guantanamo detainees when even the FBI complained to their superiors about the techniques the military officials were using during interrogations at Guantanamo during the years 2002 to 2004.

The complains were against Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who was in charge of the prison at the time.

54 e-mails were released about the complains.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by Astronomer70
Thank you shots for correcting my faulty memory--sorry zappafan1.

ADHDsux4me; stripping? beating? humilitating? I don't know if I buy that going on at GITMO. Not saying it didn't, but certainly there has been no proof of such treatment.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Astronomer70]


Astronomer, don't you recall the pictures with "smiling" Private Lyndie Englund, smoking a cigarette and pointing at the prisoners gentials like she was going to shoot them off? That's pretty humiliating.

Also how about all of the "poses" the soldiers force the prisoners into, like the guy standing on a crate, with his arms out in a black dunce hood which looked like the KKK. For that shot he also had bits of barbed wire wrapped on him.

I just wanted you to remember those before you said again there was no proof.

-ADHD



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Detainees being tortured to death?

Link

This guy looks eager to go.

Link

Does this guy look like he being bleeding? Humiliated? He just standing there.

Link

Why is this guy allowed to pray? America is suppose to be beating him up.

Not to mention watching detainees playing soccer.


I was like what the heck, when I saw that on worldnews.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 06:12 PM
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Yes American penal system is probably the kindest, most humane, and forgiving in the world. Some of our "allies" will pull out detainees nails, beat them to a bloody pulp, force them to sleep nude without any thing to cover their bodies from the cold hard floor. However, we must not forget that EVERYONE is entitled to certain legal rights, which were not being granted until recently. This is the focus of the topic, not torture or humilating acts of degradation.

The men and/or women who were being held were denied of certain legal rights such as being formally charged with a crime so that a trial can actually commence. Being held indefinetly without so much as a set date for these detainees and/or their attorneys (if they were even granted a defense attorney) to make their case. I believe these are the rights they were entitled too no?



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 06:23 PM
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I believe these are the rights they were entitled too no?


REPLY: As has been proven, they do not fall under tha geneva Convention protections. The Supreme Court ignored precedent for enemy combatants from the FDR era, and there is also a law that does not allow the Supreme Court any say in the matter during times of war. They are not the "Final Arbitors" as much as they wish it to be true.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: As has been proven, they do not fall under tha geneva Convention protections. The Supreme Court ignored precedent for enemy combatants from the FDR era, and there is also a law that does not allow the Supreme Court any say in the matter during times of war. They are not the "Final Arbitors" as much as they wish it to be true.

Hey, wasnt the War on Drugs still raging back in 2000 when the Supreme Court handed Bush his Presidency? Does that mean that the Supreme Court had no authourity to halt the recount?

Are you sure the Bush administration would want to claim that idea using the War on Terrorism as a pretext?



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 08:12 PM
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ADHDsux4me, I wish that I were not familiar with what went on in Iraq at abu Grahib, but I am aware of that shameless conduct. However, that was not in GITMO.

Marg perhaps I was in the hospital during the time you refer to when all those E-mails were sent, but I don't recall them. Could you provide some link, or some kind of info that would let me learn about them?



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 08:44 PM
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We all my pleasure Astronomer, I guess you in deed missed the news.

FBI memos reveal allegations of abusive interrogation techniques



FBI agents working at the prison complained about the military interrogators' techniques in e-mails to their superiors from 2002 to 2004, 54 e-mails released by the American Civil Liberties Union showed. The agents tried to get the military interrogators to follow a less coercive approach and warned that the harsh methods could hinder future criminal prosecutions of terrorists because information gained illegally is inadmissible in court.

www.realcities.com...



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
............
Remember Muaddib that the definition of enemy combatant was made by the US to avoid treating the detainees with the Geneva convention rights.
............


No.... i gave a direct link to what was said at the Geneva convention, that is not "what the United Stated made up.... If you read it you would see why those enemy combatants are not "prisoners of war"....



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by subz

Your Supreme Court says otherwise Muaddib.
...........


You mean what was mentioned in that link which was given from "prisonplanet.com"?....



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
We all my pleasure Astronomer, I guess you in deed missed the news.

FBI memos reveal allegations of abusive interrogation techniques


Why is it that there is no proof of those "memos" in that link? They claim there were memos but no evidence that they actually existed/exist.

Do you have anything concrete to back this?

[edit on 12-7-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
The men and/or women who were being held were denied of certain legal rights such as being formally charged with a crime so that a trial can actually commence.


They are not civilians, therefore they are not entitled to any such rights, POW’s in a time of war do not have to be put on trial of offered any legal rights, they are simply held until the end of hostilities comes to an official end. Then they are either released or tried.

-------

Marge I really don't see those techniques described as torture, they could be seen as aggressive but defiantly not torture, you're telling me forcing someone to watch porn hours on end is torture? Please I’d submit to that willingly.
I doubt the official FBI E-mails labeled these techniques as torture, they simply do things differently in their profession and they were urging the military to do the same as them, to which the General said, no thank you.

[edit on 12-7-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 09:10 PM
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The definition of being at War, Only Congress has the power to Declare War. That war as defined by Congress's approval is versus specific countries. Our War on Terror recognizes no specific country as the one we are at war with. We are at war with a concept, that knows no boundires. Thus allowing Bush to circumnavigate the definition of Prisoners of War. Until now.....

I have a feeling, those who are "trolling" there way that Bush is right, and we are all off our collective rockers about this abuse that takes place, is being perpetrated by the mysterious government and special interest groups our masters @ ATS were warning us about in the Political Forums.

Threadkillers, who droll on and on that "The Right, is right" are lurking in our midst.

I welcome and cherish opposing views in life and polotics, but Denying Ignorance about these horrors is why we are here....

Torture is happening, and has happened in our detainment camps.

Ask yourself this question, what if you were one of these detainees?

Would you just love to be posed for these "glory shots" for another's sick entertainment?

Would you love having Dogs brought in at 3am in the morning to bark ferociously and wake you out of the only escape you get from your living conditions?

Is that what you expect to be a non-torture policy?

-ADHD Text Black



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