Israel using Chemical Weapons against Palestinians?

english.aljazeera.net...

OK,

So now the Palestinians are claiming Israel is using Chemical Weapons.

Do they really expect the Civilized World to believe this?

I sure don’t. I don’t see Israel needing to stoop to Chemical Weapons when they have all the conventional weapons they need to get the job done.

Of course, this seems to me to be an attempt by the Palestinians to win International support for the Palestinians present plight.

As I see it, Palestinians do not want to take responsibility for their own actions.

It should be obvious, after 60+ years, that if Palestinians make an attempt to provoke Israel into attacking them, Israel WILL attack them!

If Palestinians continue firing missiles at Israel, it is unrealistic to expect sympathy from the International Community if Israel responds.

It has become even more difficult for me to have a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians after they voted Hamas in as their Government.

Hamas has not kept secret the fact that its primary goal is to see the destruction of Israel. Hamas has said that it WILL NOT recognize Israel nor will they renounce violence against Israel. By voting for Hamas, the Palestinians voted to remain at war.

How can the International Community be expected to be sympathetic to the Palestinians when they chose to remain at war?

Originally posted by hlesterjerome
So now the Palestinians are claiming Israel is using Chemical Weapons.

Odd, considering that the Palestinians have threatened to use chemical weapons against the israelis.

english.aljazeera.net...
Palestinian medics said on Tuesday that patients treated in Shifa hospital in Gaza and bodies at the mortuary presented unusual burns, raising concerns that Israel was using chemical weapons [...]"Even bodies of the injured have been almost completely burnt. They have been deformed in a very ugly way that we have never seen before," he told Aljazeera channel

For what its worth however, in the past, this is how reports of US use of things like white phosphorous weapons started.

"When we try to X-ray dead bodies, we find no trace of the shrapnel that hit the person killed," he said, adding that the bodies seemed to have been chemically burnt.
"We are sure that Israel is using a new chemical or radioactive weapon in the new operation. More than 25% of the injured are children, aged under 16."

I don't see why it should have to leave shrapnel, perhaps the palestinian doctors are expecting the israeli weapons to be like their own. It doesn't make sense to say that they are using radioactive weapons when there isn't an effect on everyone in an area, and radiation wouldn't have burns all over the body instantly anyway no? I mean, fire would tend to do that, from an explosion.

Anyway, if the palestinians don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should stop attacking the israelis. Heck, this particular offensive can be stopped by releasing the pow.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyway, if the palestinians don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should stop attacking the israelis. Heck, this particular offensive can be stopped by releasing the pow.

If Israeli's do not want to be Attacked, I suggest they remove themselves from the ILLEGALLY occupied Territories, which they hold from 1967;

Palestinians have a legitimate right to defend themselves against this illegal occupation

It's lights out in the Gaza Strip and lights out in the moral consciousness of the Western and Arab world. The reason? One soldier, who lacked the ethical fiber to resist involvement in the illegal occupation of an indigenous people, was captured by those he was oppressing. It's like a rapist complaining when his victims get aggressive. Red flags have gone up throughout the West. This event is an "escalation," a "declaration of war," an "obscene act by terrorists." Is this capture ten thousands times less offensive and harmful than the ten thousand prisoners abducted by Israel? Would not the executing of four thousands Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, constitute a "crime against humanity?"

Palestinians have a legitimate right—under international law and the Geneva Conventions—to defend themselves against this illegal occupation. This event was not an attack on the civilians of Israel, but rather a patriotic fight against an oppressive foreign force. Similarly, the twenty-four point reconciliation proposal in Iraq which, based on the argument of patriotism, calls for amnesty of those attacking American forces. This argument seemed generally accepted within the US administration and military. Although for some odd partisan reason, democrats, burnt flag in hand, had a hissy fit over it in Congress. The West should not only apologize to Hamas for defaming its good name, but it should pat Hamas on the back for playing by rules. As for the Palestinian's "Arab brothers," it's understandable that Egypt likes its monthly cash deposit from its sugar daddy, America, but amassing troops on the border to appease its sugar daddy is a sellout that even Sadat would have grimaced at.

So, who is Playing by the "Rules" here?

Originally posted by Souljah

Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyway, if the palestinians don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should stop attacking the israelis. Heck, this particular offensive can be stopped by releasing the pow.

If Israeli's do not want to be Attacked, I suggest they remove themselves from the ILLEGALLY occupied Territories, which they hold from 1967;

Indeed, they could. However, since the palestinian attacks are pretty weak, it looks like they are better off permanently occupying the territory and conducting responsive raids like this.

Its just not in the intersts of the israelis to leave any of the territories. The palestinians are the ones that are suffering the most, its in their own interests to stop.

So, who is Playing by the "Rules" here?

Who cares?
The israelis are far more powerful than the palestinians, and the palestinian cause is entirely hopeless. The most they can do is stop attacking the israelis, and then the occupation won't involve these counter attacks.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The israelis are far more powerful than the palestinians, and the palestinian cause is entirely hopeless. The most they can do is stop attacking the israelis, and then the occupation won't involve these counter attacks.

So in other words, give up, and surrender to the occupation? Israel will just start fabricating attacks.

Soulja im with you...Isreal needs to get out of Gaza....

Originally posted by Nygdan
Anyway, if the palestinians don't want to be attacked, perhaps they should stop attacking the israelis. Heck, this particular offensive can be stopped by releasing the pow.

Now common you dont Honestly believe this Nygdan...One soldier one measly soldier is worth killing dozens of Palestians...No rather...it looks like Isreal was LOOKING for a reason ro reinvade Gaza and this ONE soldier was enough.

As per the actual topic of this thread..If isreal is using Chemical weapons that means they probably got them from the US since thats where they get a large quantity of thier weapons.

I personally feel that if becomes DOCUMENTED and verified that Isreal is using Chemical Weapons we should cut them off....and then see how powerful they are. The only reason Isreal is still a country is because the United States has had thier back since 1967. So....if ISreal is using Chemical Weapons which is not outside the realm of possibility then they should face UN sanctions and a complete reversal of Current US Aid..approx 4billion a year.

But thats just how I feel.

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom] Thanks Mirthful.....factual corrections...I never knew about the French....

[edit on 11-7-2006 by Elsenorpompom]

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
As per the actual topic of this thread..If isreal is using Chemical weapons that means they got them from the US since thats where they get ALL thier weapons.

Whenever you deal in absolutes.

Nothing like the french coming to save the day.

p.s. It's Israel

Fonzie monkeys, not just for making the jukebox work anymore...

Originally posted by Nygdan

The israelis are far more powerful than the palestinians, and the palestinian cause is entirely hopeless. The most they can do is stop attacking the israelis, and then the occupation won't involve these counter attacks.

Hmmm...

So on this basis the French resistance should have quietly given up fighting the Nazis in WWII as they were undeniably in an apparently hopeless position immediately after the occupation of France. What so many of us in the West seem peculiarly unable to grasp is that the Palestinians are prepared to fight and die for their homeland just as almost every other race is.

What is much more interesting is why Israel, which is in breach of a shed load of UNSC resolutions, unquestionably posesses WMD and would be more likely to use them than most, seems to attract little more than affectionate criticism from the West almost as a parent would chide a mischevious eight year old.

The Israelis definitely seem to be looking for a reason to start killing Palestinians. The Palestinians need to stop given them reason until they are ready to fight Israel their own terms. Who's right and who's wrong doesn't have much bearing now that things are getting out of control again.

I think the Palestinians have definitely gotten the crap-end end the stick time and again, but they need to start thinking about their situation and find a better way to handle things than lobbing shoddily made rockets at Israel.

Think of it this way, if a Tiger wanders into to your back yard, what are you going to do. Sure, the tiger shouldn't be there, he's out of place, he's trespassing. But are you going to go out there with a butter knife and rocks to chase him off? Heck no, you’re gonna call animal control and go get your gun!

I don't claim to know the best way for the Palestinians to improve their situation, I just know that if they keep poking that trespassing tiger with a stick, he's gonna get pissed off and eat them.

Any country that elects a government of terrorists gets no quarter from me, and anyone who defends the Palestinians at this point is supporting terrorists and terrorism in my opinion, because the facts are what they are, it is a factual statement to say if someone supports Hamas they support terrorism.

It isn't Israel lobbing bombs into Palestine every single day, but the opposite is true. It isn't Israel that is kidnapping innocent people, executing people without a trial, or sending suicide bombs against innocent civilians, but the opposite is true. It isn't Israel who uses murder, kidnapping, and other violence against innocent civilians for political gain, but the opposite is true. It isn't Israel who refuses to acknowledge the existence of the Palestinians, but the opposite is true.

But to the point...

There is one very noteworthy aspect to the Israel / Hamas conflict that is way under the radar in the West, mostly because it doesn't fit the liberal American war agenda.

Iraqi's are supporting Israel, not Hamas. Read the whole thing, because if you skim it you won't realize the full potential.

One link isn't enough for many people though, so hit any of the messageboards for any of the regional newspapers, because in the forums, Iraqi's are very critical of Hamas, and are supporting Isreal, something Westerners have been told isn't possible. It turns out, the Iraqi's have decided to make a moral judgement call on what is right and wrong, something many in the West don't have the moral courage to do anymore.

That judgement call, ironically, is being made on a very liberal concept, perhaps the foundation of liberalism in America, the good vs evil struggle that bases good on the value of human life, and evil on that which devalues it.

This is the positive sign from the Iraq war no one wants to discuss, mostly because it doesn't fit into anyone's political agenda. It shows a truly liberal trend in Iraq which probably rubs the rightwingers the wrong way, and because it is positive information from Iraq, it rubs the leftwingers in America the wrong way too.

Either way, when Iraqi Arabs side with Israel in mass over other Arabs by making a judgement call of right and wrong that values human life over those who devalue it, I think progress has been made.

And in that first link, I also think the Iraqi's make the case very well for why I support Israel's actions in Gaza. Democracy is about letting the people speak through votes, you deserve what comes from the choices you make at the ballet box. That is true in the US, that is true in other democracy's, and that is true in Palestine as well.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, they could. However, since the palestinian attacks are pretty weak, it looks like they are better off permanently occupying the territory and conducting responsive raids like this.

Why is that? Would you give up the Fight if your Brother was Dead, your Sister was Dead, your House was Demolished, your Father was in the Hospital?

Its just not in the intersts of the israelis to leave any of the territories. The palestinians are the ones that are suffering the most, its in their own interests to stop.

It is the Interest of Zionists - not Israelis - to Occupy the Entire Regions of West Bank and Gaza Strip PERMANENTLY; and to finally get the territory of the Al-Aqsa Mosque and demolish it and build the friggin' Solomons Temple on the Ruins.

Who cares?

Looks like NOBODY yet again.

The israelis are far more powerful than the palestinians, and the palestinian cause is entirely hopeless. The most they can do is stop attacking the israelis, and then the occupation won't involve these counter attacks.

You should know that Hope Dies Last - and it will Die when the Last Palestinian is Dead - and the Israeli's (I mean the Zionists) know that.

HOW IN THE HECK do the people get INFORMATION such as CHEMICAL WARFARE going on when .. There is none going on /??? And why haven't we gotten any news on it over here yet !? Would the war be over before the Us News even publishes one single thing concerning it ...

OK as far as I recall the Palestinians blamed Israel for, poisoning candies and droping it on Palesitnian lands, poisoning Palestinian water, the massacre of 500+ Palestinians in Jenin and countless other lies. What is another lie in the plethora of the past lies?

For those who demand the immediate retreat of Israel from Gaza seemed to have forgotten that Israel was not in Gaza for nearly a year while the Palestinians staged daily attacks on Israel from the areas Israel left. Therefore I call for Israel to lay the pressure on the Palestinian until the criminal Hamas government breaks and not to engage in another unilateral withdraw from any more lands. Palestinians just use it to stage their dirty war.

Incidentally Palestinians have been using chemical weapons for years now:

”Doctors in Israeli hospitals had been noticing that when they operated on people wounded in homicide bombing attacks, patients often continued to bleed even after being sutured. Eventually, a young medical resident figured out why: The terrorists filled their bombs with as many nails, screws, glass shards and pieces of shrapnel as they could, and these were first dipped in rat poison. The rat poison worked as an anticoagulant.

Now Israeli emergency room doctors can treat bombing victims with Vitamin K to control the bleeding, but as the Rocky Mountain News reported, stronger drugs can cost up to $10,000 per vial.”

Source-see bottom of the page.

Do you think the Palestinians stop there? How about the use of primitive biological weapons?
Source

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
So in other words, give up, and surrender to the occupation?

In a sense, they've already done that. There isn't a general uprising against the yehudis, the public at large just sits there and does nothing.

Israel will just start fabricating attacks.

Oh ok.

elsenorpomom
One soldier one measly soldier is worth killing dozens of Palestians

Of course. The yehudis are entirely justified in killing as many palestinians as they have to in the course of an operation to get one of their own soldiers back. Heck, any nation has a responsibility to do just that. I'm not saying that they shoudl start rounding up and executing civilians, but its absurd to suggest that the yehudis can't invade gaza when one of their soldiers, or civilians, is captured.
As far as 'just looking for a reason to invade', why pull out in the first place? And regardless of that, having one of their soldiers captured is a pretty darned good reason to invade.

..If isreal is using Chemical weapons that means they probably got them from the US since thats where they get a large quantity of thier weapons.

Possibly. But, I'd think that israel can manufacture their own chem weapons. Israel, like Syria, is not party to the "Chemical Weapons Convention", and is legally permited to create and use chemical weapons, whereas the United States is not. I'd doubt that the US, which does have a declared stockpile of Chemical Weapons (along with several other countries) would bother giving Israel chemical weapons, or manufacturing them and then selling them, when it could more easily be legally manufactured within Israel by Israelis.

timeless test
So on this basis the French resistance should have quietly given up fighting the Nazis in WWII

No, they should've continued to fight to the death. The jews aren't the nazis, to begin with. More importantly, the french weren't 'surprised' at nazi retaliation when they fought them, they understood that if they supported the resistance, they'd be subject to getting killed by the occpiers, such is the legal right of an occupying power. The palestinians should rise up, en mass, and storm into jerusalem and tel aviv and the rest of israel, and fight them to the death, not send kids onto buses with suicide belts, its pathetic.

is that the Palestinians are prepared to fight and die for their homeland just as almost every other race is.

They sure as heck don't look it. They gave up pretty darned quickly after the occupation set in, and the other arabs don't seem particularly interested in them either.

seems to attract little more than affectionate criticism from the West

Since israel isn't a threat to the west, why should the west make moves to control them? THe west can barely get itself to sanction and control countries like N. Korea or Iraq under Saddam that were openly opposed to the west, so why waste time on a non-threatening ally?

yadboy
I just know that if they keep poking that trespassing tiger with a stick, he's gonna get pissed off and eat them.

The palestinians have already been devoured by the 'tiger', they lost the war, and are occupied. THis is like as if the tiger pooped them out, and then stomped on the faeces every once in a while.

souljah
Would you give up the Fight if your Brother was Dead, your Sister was Dead, your House was Demolished, your Father was in the Hospital?

Me? No. But....why have the palestinians? And, again, I certainly wouldn't expect to be able to murder 'enemy' civlians at will, and not have repurcussions for myself and the community around me, let alone expect the international community to come in and save me. The palestinains are welcome to fight israel, why do they choose not to?

- to Occupy the Entire Regions of West Bank and Gaza Strip PERMANENTLY;

Permanent occupation is clearly what is in the future for the palestinian territories, the most they can hope for is to be like gaza, under actual israeli control, but without any jewish residents, with the israelis sending in punitive raids in response to their attacks. The israelis don't need to do anything for permanent occupation, thats been a given for a long time.

and build the friggin' Solomons Temple on the Ruins.

Its their land, let 'em. If the jews had built a syangoge on top of the kabaa hundred years ago, who'd expect the arabs to not raze it and rebuild the cube??

You should know that Hope Dies Last

The palestinians have clearly given up on hope, as a population, a long time ago. THey sit there, and let small militias conduct terror attacks against the yehudis, thats what you do when you are hopeless, you give in to those kinds of politics and do nothing yourself. If they had hope of taking their land back, they'd all be crossing the border right now.

and it will Die when the Last Palestinian is Dead

Not necessary, they have already given up and given in. Its not the whole population that has to be defeated, as its not the whole population that is against them. THe public might not like the jews, but they certainly aren't doing much to get rid of them. So why even bother 'killing' the people, when you can just pull the rug out from underthem? In a generation or two, they'll forget who they are, or were, even.

deus brandon
And why haven't we gotten any news on it over here yet

?
Whats the source of your confusion? Some palestinian medics are saying that they are seeing bodies that are strangely burnt, and assuming it must be a result of chemical warfare, al-jazeera is reporting on it. Why should other news agencies report on it? Its not particularly convicing at this point.

Originally posted by Nygdan
In a sense, they've already done that. There isn't a general uprising against the yehudis, the public at large just sits there and does nothing.

Then why just a few posts up did you tell Palestinians to stop fighting, if they already have? You're just making things up as you go along to fit your argument.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Israel will just start fabricating attacks.
Oh ok.

Yeah, OK.


[edit on 11-7-2006 by Communication_Burger]

Originally posted by Communication_Burger
Then why just a few posts up did you tell Palestinians to stop fighting, if they already have?

Alright, I will clarify. The general public isn't interseted enough in fighting to get up, grab a gun, and engage in the war. But they are interested enough to support groups like hamas and the plo. If it is confusing for you, well, what can I say, the palestinians are a confusing people. THey want isreal gone, but don't want to fight for it, but will still support gangs that are willing to fight for it, even if they are ineffective.

You're just making things up as you go along to fit your argument.

The palestinians have a right to resist the occpuation. BUT, they should use their brains, they're NOT going to get anywhere with a violent resistance. IF they want peace, and a normal life, then they need to stop fighting. IF they want to push the yehudis into the sea, then yes, they'll have to fight. A lot of people have said that the palestinians want a normal life and peace, that is false, because they continue to choose to support the militants. THey prefer to have the yehudis periodically re-invade the gaza strip and live in refugee camps, rather than have peace. So why not let them have what they clearly want?

How do people equate Border Closings,assasinations of political figures, Missile strikes on militants and civilians,confiscation of tax monies as being "Out of Gaza" for a year? LOL They never left anything! As far as Israel being so innocent and always the target, I guess some of you conveniently forget how many innocent Palestinian people have died just in the past 3 months alone , but then again since they are only Palestinians its alright and just as forgettable, as they never existed before anyway. Pffft

Originally posted by Elsenorpompom
Now common you dont Honestly believe this Nygdan...One soldier one measly soldier is worth killing dozens of Palestians...No rather...it looks like Isreal was LOOKING for a reason ro reinvade Gaza and this ONE soldier was enough.

What does it say about Israel that their threshold of just 1 soldier is enough to stir action. What effect do you think that would have on a military, which is constantly under attack and engaged? What would the morale be for a military like that?

The irony is, you are aspiring the idea that 1 soldier isn't a high enough threshold for Israel to take action, while if you were looking at the situation objectively through unclouded glasses, you would realize the full implications of what Israeli action means in the larger scheme, and how brilliant it is to make a stand at the first soldier, as opposed to waiting for a larger threshold of violence.

As if military historians needed yet another example why Israel always wins. This is a very powerful statement how a single human life, a soldier in the military, can become a symbol for stopping the violence. Maybe you see it differently, but I see a lot of wisdom in what Israel is doing. By taking action, Israel has forced Hamas to be a government, instead of a terrorist cell, because Hamas has to answer to the people for all consequences including the loss of power, water, etc.. when it is all said and done.

I agree with your WMD comments, although I don't see any credible evidence Israel is using WMD. That rat poison thing was something I had not heard before, and if true, is quite troublesome.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
How do people equate Border Closings,assasinations of political figures, Missile strikes on militants and civilians,confiscation of tax monies as being "Out of Gaza" for a year? LOL They never left anything! As far as Israel being so innocent and always the target, I guess some of you conveniently forget how many innocent Palestinian people have died just in the past 3 months alone , but then again since they are only Palestinians its alright and just as forgettable, as they never existed before anyway. Pffft

In a democracy, the people are the government. In every democracy, people pay for the decisions of their leadership. If the US elects a madman president who bombs China, and China nukes the west coast, guess what?

Even if 500,000 die, as horrible as that would be, it is still the people's fault for electing the guy in the first place. That is what democracy is.

Do they not teach this stuff in college anymore, or is everyone posting today a victim of US public education or something? It is as if the whole concept of government accountablity is a myth.

Just as a little reminder, the topic here is the accusation of Israel using chemical weapons against Palestinians. Not the 750,000th thread discussing which side is right.

Now, to get back on topic (hey at least I am trying), I'd like to know how with all the international attention, including hundreds of reporters, how would it be possible to start popping off chemical weapons without anyone knowing about it?

And please don't tell me that all the press there is pro-Israel because then I'll have to give you a breathalyzer.

To tell me that Israel is using chemical weapons and no one but Al-Ficitioneera knows about it is too much of a stretch for even the skunkworks forum.

[edit on 7-11-2006 by Djarums]