President Mahmoud Ahmadi Nezhad Calls For The Permanent Removal of Israel

Originally posted by semperfortis
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Muaddib, why are you arguing with some of these people? I don't think I have ever heard more false representations and exaggerations in a thread in my life.

Sometimes i ask myself the same question... You don't know how close I have been on puting him in ignore, but then again, who will fight against the evil Dr. subz?

Originally posted by semperfortis
Your original post was excellent muaddib and no matter how they "spin" it, the man is a terrorist and needs to be removed.

Semper

Thanks semper. To tell you the truth i would rather the world be at peace, but I know that with people like the Iranian president being in power of a nation such as Iran, that is not going to be possible.

[edit on 13-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
lol...the one not giving any proof to back their claims is you among some others[...

So you've discovered how to prove a negative? Can you let the rest of humanity know how to do it? How can I prove Ahmadinejad or Iran hasnt done something? Thats your job as the accuser.

Im still waiting on evidence from you or any one else on the following questions posed by myself on pg 1.

Show me proof that:

1) Ahmadinejad hates Jews
2) Ahmadinejad said "Israel should be wiped off the map"
3) Iran has a secret nuclear weapons program
4) Iran would use force against Israel
5) Ahmadinejad has said he would use force against Israel

Still nothing but conjecture on these subjects.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Oh i see...so now CNN, Iranian news sources, Australian news sources and Aljazeera, among others, have "suddenly become biased....

Every Western report into what Ahmadinejad said was based on a faulty translation. Here is what Ahmadinejad really said, translated by someone without a vested interest in painting Iran and Ahmadinejad into a raving genocidal maniac.

Pay attention please Muaddib, what Ahmadinejad said was:

"the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time"
Translated by Professor Juan Cole of Informed Comment

Originally posted by Muaddib
You are something else subz...

blah blah blah

[edit on 13/7/06 by subz]

Pay attention Dr. subz....

I have already proven what I stated, from several sources... You just don't want to admit it. I don't know why but you always make accusations against the U.S. yet you defend the CCP, as well as regimes like the one in Iran.

I gave several sources, now you prove all those sources are wrong..

Here is yet another translation of what Ahmadinejad said in that infamous speech. This time it comes courtesy of The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI)

"'Imam [Khomeini] said: 'This regime that is occupying Qods [Jerusalem] must be eliminated from the pages of history.' This sentence is very wise. The issue of Palestine is not an issue on which we can compromise."

MEMRI Special Dispatch

You should note that MEMRI is headed by an ex-Israeli military intelligence officer.

Yet every one of your quotes is based on the purposely mistranslated text coming from the same source, The New York Times.

Furthermore Muaddib, in Ahmadinejad's speech in question he likened the removal of the Zionist regime to the removal of the Shah. Surely he didnt advocate eliminating all Iranians to oust the Shah, right? He was talking about regime change in Jerusalem, which used to be internationally frowned upon until made popular by the United States.

"'... They [ask]: 'Is it possible for us to witness a world without America and Zionism?' But you had best know that this slogan and this goal are attainable, and surely can be achieved…

"'When the dear Imam [Khomeini] said that [the Shah's] regime must go, and that we demand a world without dependent governments, many people who claimed to have political and other knowledge [asked], 'Is it possible [that the Shah’s regime can be toppled]?'

"'That day, when Imam [Khomeini] began his movement, all the powers supported [the Shah's] corrupt regime… and said it was not possible. However, our nation stood firm, and by now we have, for 27 years, been living without a government dependent on America. Imam [Khomeni] said: 'The rule of the East [U.S.S.R.] and of the West [U.S.] should be ended.' But the weak people who saw only the tiny world near them did not believe it.

MEMRI Special Dispatch

Can you find a translation that doesnt come from the New York Times that still insists that he said "Israel should be wiped of the map"? Ahmadinejad's use of the phrase "Safheh roozgar" has nothing to do with "maps", ask a Farsi speaker if you wish.

Need I remind you, Muaddib, how prone to media manipulation you are when it comes to Iran? Remember the Iranian Jew Badge fiasco? That was reported, and quoted by yourself, and was shown to be an utter fabrication. Thanks to the widespread misquotation for political purposes of this very Ahmadinejad speech people were ready to prove the Iranian Jew Badge hoax for what it was quickly instead of letting the hoax seep into the collective subconscious of the West like this fabricated "Israel should be wiped of the map" quote.

[edit on 13/7/06 by subz]

Oh, so now you trust MEMRI?....

Ok...so tell us what you think about the following....

This is what I have found making a quick search throught the MEMRI site.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

After stating, in October 2005, that "very soon, the stain of this disgrace [i.e. Israel] will be purged from the center of the Islamic world," Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad went on to make a series of orchestrated remarks in which he repeatedly stressed that the Holocaust was a "myth," and proposed that Europe take the Jews back or else settle them elsewhere in the world. [15]
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memri.org...

Threats by Iranian President Ahmadinejad

In a television program aired on July 11, 2006, Iranian President Ahmadinejad warned Western countries not to support Israel, because "the rage of the Muslim peoples will not be restricted to the boundaries of our region... The waves of the explosion... will reach the corrupt forces [i.e. the Western countries] which support this fake regime." The following is an excerpt from Ahmadinejad's statement on the program: [2]

"Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: Today, it has been proven that the Zionists are not opposed only to Islam and the Muslims. They are opposed to humanity as a whole. They want to dominate the entire world. They would even sacrifice the Western regimes for their own sake. I have said in Tehran, and I say it again here - I say to the leaders of some Western countries: Stop supporting these corrupt people. Behold, the rage of the Muslim peoples is accumulating. The rage of the Muslim peoples may soon reach the point of explosion. If that day comes, they must know that the waves of this explosion will not be restricted to the boundaries of our region. They will definitely reach the corrupt forces that support this fake regime."

memri.org...

The following is a translation provided from MEMRI in which Mohammad Ali Ramin, advisor to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, made some of the most disparate claims I have ever heard... i am excerpting only the part where there is any mention on the destruction of Israel..

On June 9, 2006, the reformist online daily Rooz reported that during a visit with students at Gilan University in Rasht, Iran, Mohammad Ali Ramin, advisor to Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, discussed historical accusations against the Jews and questioned the Holocaust.
.......................
"Ramin claimed that the Holocaust was the main reason why Palestine was occupied, while Israel was the main cause of crises and catastrophe in the Middle East. 'So long as Israel exists in the region,' he said, 'there will never be peace and security in the Middle East. So the resolution of the Holocaust issue will end in the destruction of Israel.'

memri.org...

Ahmadinejad also warned Israel's supporters that "any help to the [Israeli] regime will make them partners in the crime of genocide and other illegal acts in the occupied territories, and to their Muslim citizens... The Zionist regime was created by repression and terror, and the continuation of its crimes will only hasten its downfall."

memri.org...

In a statement on November 15, 2005, Ahmadinejad explained: "The people, in the last elections, proved their faith in the Revolution, and wish to see a revival of the Islamic Revolution's ideals... This revolution was in fact a continuation of the Prophets' movement and, therefore, all political, economic, and cultural goals of the country need to be directed at materializing the Islamic ideals." He added, "Followers of this divine school of Islamic thought are doing their best to pave the way for the urgent reappearance [of the Hidden Imam]."
............................

memri.org...

The official Iranian news agency Fars, which is close to the conservative circles in Iran, recently published a statement by Ayatollah Hossein Nouri-Hamedani, one of the Iranian regime's leading religious authorities, in which he advocates fighting the Jews in order to prepare the ground and to hasten the advent of the Hidden Imam, the Messiah according to Shiite belief.
...............
"Fars news agency: Ayatollah Nouri-Hamedani, discussing [Shi'ite] religious texts, said: 'One should fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam be met.' According to the Fars news agency's report, Ayatollah Nouri-Hamedani met with members of the Mahdaviyat Studies Institute. [2] He praised the institute's work and demanded that the religious seminaries in Qom also do more to research religious texts and hadith concerning the Hidden Imam...

memri.org...


[edit on 13-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by subz
.............
Need I remind you, Muaddib, how prone to media manipulation you are when it comes to Iran? Remember the Iranian Jew Badge fiasco? That was reported, and quoted by yourself, and was shown to be an utter fabrication. Thanks to the widespread misquotation for political purposes of this very Ahmadinejad speech people were ready to prove the Iranian Jew Badge hoax for what it was quickly instead of letting the hoax seep into the collective subconscious of the West like this fabricated "Israel should be wiped of the map" quote.

[edit on 13/7/06 by subz]

No subz, you don't need to remind me, I posted a follow up on that article and what had happened. Yes there are people who make up exagerations, but not everything is exagerations and lies subz. You don't want to believe anything which has been quoted from the iranian president for whatever reasons, but that doesn't hide the truth...

BTW, subz, the real issues reported from that article was presented and the "reporter who made up the "badge part" of that story" was debunked...but again, you don't clarify this in hopes to dismiss the facts about the statements of the Iranian president....

If those statements were not true, then so many news sources around the world would not have reported them....


[edit on 13-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Nothing personal guy but the logical oxymoronic subatomic hair splitting being served up exceeds the confines of the common sense this good ole country boy uses as his compass.

You're on your fillibuster own...

After reading all of this, I'm claiming feasable deniability in anything I will further say in this thread due to reason of insanity. I've not seen so much accusing in a thread in a long time.

This Iranian President has his head someplace it shouldn't be, and he doesn't know what kind of doodoo he's in. First off, he should be thanking his God that he's not dead yet. He has apparently forgotten that just ONE US submarine could glass his entire puny country in a matter of minutes. Why does he think that he holds ANY power at all? He makes all of these veiled threats, as if he actually has a leg to stand on. I say let him scream his lame rhetoric. When he makes a move, he'll be stomped on like a little bug.

The sleeping bear awoke 5 years ago. And she aint happy. I suggest the world let the bear get back to bed, since she's got a bad temper. It's time for "another long winter's nap".

TheBorg

Originally posted by Muaddib
If those statements were not true, then so many news sources around the world would not have reported them....

Not in one of those statements you quoted, Muaddib, does the Iranian President say Israelis should be killed. They are variations of the same thing, that the Zionist regime has to go.

The last quote isnt even from President Ahmadinejad, but Ayatollah Hossein Nouri-Hamedani. If that guy wants to fight the Jews thats his own business. Using it to somehow bolster your argument that the Iranian President wants to as well is misleading.

I also notice you didnt find a non-New York Times translated article that says "Israel should be wiped off the map". Is it fair to say its in the same league as the "Jew badge" fiaso?

Originally posted by subz

Not in one of those statements you quoted, Muaddib, does the Iranian President say Israelis should be killed. They are variations of the same thing, that the Zionist regime has to go.
...................

Really?... tell us subz, how do you think the Iranian president plans to, according to his statement, "purge the stain that is Israel" without killing Israeli civilians who live in Israel?....

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by subz
......................
Is it fair to say its in the same league as the "Jew badge" fiaso?

What proof do you have of that?.... The "badge fiasco" as you call it was an exageration made by one reporter. Another reporter, an Iranian, reported it differently, but it still had the same basic points, minus the badges, and I gave proof that backed the statements made by that Iranian reporter.

Anyways....again, how does "that story which you brought up have any relevance with this one"..... I could start bringing up stories which were completly bs yet you backed them up and agreed with them.....but none of that has anything to do with this story...

If any of those statements were mistranslated, as you and some leftist sites claim, then those newspapers would have retracted their stories, just like the Canadian newspaper did.... yet none of the news sources i gave has retracted the stories or any of the statements.....

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by subz
.............
The last quote isnt even from President Ahmadinejad, but Ayatollah Hossein Nouri-Hamedani. If that guy wants to fight the Jews thats his own business. Using it to somehow bolster your argument that the Iranian President wants to as well is misleading.
............

Again, you are wrong in that claim subz...the Iranian president is not the only one that controls and has power in Iran...hence it is called "the Iranian regime".... knowing the statements from those people in the higher up ranks in power in Iran tells you exactly what the Iranian regime wants... Every heard of the "Mullahs"?.... and who is the most respected figure, who is alive, in Iran?....and how much power does he have in Iran subz?...

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Muaddib]

Subz,

I agree with you on points you make. There may be only 1 time in our life when we will all see what is true and what is B.S.

Glad to know that there are folks like you out there that actually have a different opinion than most.

Keep Up.

Originally posted by subz
Not in one of those statements you quoted, Muaddib, does the Iranian President say Israelis should be killed. They are variations of the same thing, that the Zionist regime has to go.

Yes, yes. And I would be willing to bet that you would be hard pressed to find a public speech made by Hitler, prior to 1941, where he actually said "kill the jews". Only until after their blood began to spill did it become socially acceptable to actually say it in public. But as with the Iranian president today, the Germans all knew what was on Hitler's mind......

Originally posted by subz
*sigh* More spin and pure lies regarding Iran.

I challenge ANYONE to show me evidence of the following.

1) Ahmadinejad hates Jews
2) Ahmadinejad said "Israel should be wiped off the map"
3) Iran has a secret nuclear weapons program
4) Iran would use force against Israel
5) Ahmadinejad has said he would use force against Israel

I read nothing more than pure spin, conjecture, lies and propaganda when it comes to Iran. We heard it all before over Iraq YET there are still people who believe all this drivel being peddled to us over Iran. When will enough be enough?

Okay, here ya go subz

Go to this thread and click on the link there or read the article as posted:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

or go to this "external source" called "The Mystical Menace of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad" by Daniel Pipes of the New York Sun:

www.danielpipes.org...

or how about this one?:

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader



(Mod edit: Please use URL tags for long urls. -- Majic)




[edit on 7/14/2006 by Majic]

I do not believe any of us own the Earth.

I am deeply sorry for all the people involved. in this War with no sense...

The Earth is very active these last years; hurricanes, typhoons, tsunamis, earthquakes... But it seems the natural signs are not enough for us to think about our acts...

Human kill other humans... For a piece of land or because someone believes he/she has the sole truth... No matter why people kill each other, they just look for any reason to do it while others take advantage of it...

History of mankind: war.


I am sorry for their souls.

Today is another sad day.


Maybe we deserve that the Earth reacts against our behaviour...

Originally posted by s001
Subz,

I agree with you on points you make. There may be only 1 time in our life when we will all see what is true and what is B.S.

Glad to know that there are folks like you out there that actually have a different opinion than most.

Keep Up.

Thank you! Im very glad of the support

Originally posted by curiousity
Okay, here ya go subz

Go to this thread and click on the link there or read the article as posted:

politics.abovetopsecret.com...

I read it and its again using the original mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words. Ahmadinejad was quoting the Ayatollah in that speech. He said that "the Zionist regime should be removed from the pages of time". I've already covered this topic if you would do me the honour of reading what I wrote regarding it.

Originally posted by curiousity
or go to this "external source" called "The Mystical Menace of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad" by Daniel Pipes of the New York Sun:
www.danielpipes.org...

So because he shares the same apocalyptic views of evangelical christians and George W. Bush himself he's somehow a menace? Why isnt Bush a menace when he talks about God himself talking to him and when he talks about the rapture? Im sorry but if that paints Ahmadinejad as a bad person then you have to accept that Bush is right there with him.

Originally posted by curiousity
or how about this one?:

'Divine mission' driving Iran's new leader

Again so because Ahmadinejad thinks he's got a mandate from God he's some how a menace? Here's a quote from the President of the United States, tell me how this is any different.

"I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

Bush: God Told Me To Invade Iraq

So Ahmadinejad is a crazy because he believes God is working through him? Well we better get rid of Bush while we're at it, eh?

I appreciate your efforts at proving evidence for what you believe, which is more than can be said for other members on this board who resort to childish name calling. I thank you for that



(Mod edit: Please use URL tags when quoting long URLs too. --Majic)


[edit on 7/14/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by subz
So because he shares the same apocalyptic views of evangelical christians and George W. Bush himself he's somehow a menace? Why isnt Bush a menace when he talks about God himself talking to him and when he talks about the rapture? Im sorry but if that paints Ahmadinejad as a bad person then you have to accept that Bush is right there with him.

Oh, here we go with the long "quote and comment" type of post that makes any answer ridiculous.

I'm not going there. Here it is in a nutshell. Christians hear from God because that is Who they talk to. Did you imagine it would be a one-way conversation? Wouldn't that just be talking to yourself?

So, if I, as a Christian, say "God told me this or that," you may be sure I'm totally convinced of it, since to be otherwise is to be a "false prophet", that is speaking the Word of God falsely. If you are not a Christian, who is answering/speaking to you, who is telling you to "wipe out the Zionists"? How can Allah and God be the same being if one is saying "kill the Jews" and the other is saying "These are My chosen people whom I brought out of Eygpt by a mighty hand"?

If you are imagining that God in the weak disguise of Allah has told you to wipe out God's chosen people, and to take away the homeland God has given them, then you are mistaken and deceived beyond the shadow of the doubt.

Furthermore, because you are acting AGAINST the word of God, you are evildoers. The president of Iran is probably a fairly decent man in and of himself but when he says Israel (and therefore the Jews) must be "wiped off the map", he has entered a contest which he will not win, and which can bring catastrophic consequences not only to his own country and people, but to people all around the world. Tragic and unnecessary, wrong in every sense of the word. And to be resisted to the death, if only for the reason of self-defense, or defense of those you know you are to care for.

His Word, the Bible, which all you who don't believe in God love to disdain, tells Christians that Jews are His chosen people, that Israel was given them indisputably in the long ago and far away for their possession ALWAYS, and that, as Christians, we are to behave as God behaves towards His people and His chosen land, praying for the peace of Jerusalem, loving and praying for our 'elder brothers', in short, doing all we can to love and protect them.

Israel has grown used to and dismissive of worldly opinion on what they should and should not be doing to protect their families, land, and interests. I, for one, am glad.

Oh, that America would stop succumbing to the "winds of doctrine" floating around.

Originally posted by subz

I read it and its again using the original mistranslation of Ahmadinejad's words. Ahmadinejad was quoting the Ayatollah in that speech. He said that "the Zionist regime should be removed from the pages of time". I've already covered this topic if you would do me the honour of reading what I wrote regarding it.

and why should we trust a source, from a leftist site which says quite a bit already, and not from other sources around the world all of whom say the same thing, including Middle Eastern sources....

Originally posted by subz

So because he shares the same apocalyptic views of evangelical christians and George W. Bush himself he's somehow a menace?
........................

It does not subz....there is a huge difference between the two. According to the legend of the 12th Imam, he will return when chaos is all over the world, and the Iranian president, along with his regime have declared that their sole goal is to hasten and make sure they pave the way for the 12th Imam...

Originally posted by subz
Again so because Ahmadinejad thinks he's got a mandate from God he's some how a menace? Here's a quote from the President of the United States, tell me how this is any different.

Actually it is because the iranian president, along with his regime, have declared several times now that they must attack, "purge" Israel from the Middle east, and they will spread the "explosion" to any country that tries to help Israel....

Originally posted by subz
So Ahmadinejad is a crazy because he believes God is working through him? Well we better get rid of Bush while we're at it, eh?

He is talking about terrorists...not about "purging countries off continents"....

[edit on 14-7-2006 by Muaddib]