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time paradox disaster vs trap in time loop

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posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Suppose in the future, mankind has made workable time machines.

Lets assume that there is only one time line and no other can exist in parallel or as an alternate.

Which is worst? A time paradox in the past which wipes out mankind from ever existing in this universe forever, or an accident which traps the whole of mankind in an unending time loop. Being the only part of the universe being trapped in the time loop or trapping the whole universe together in the time loop is also a possiblity.

Which in your opinion is worst, have you thought of any other worse time paradoxes or time loop disasters. How about any solutions?




posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Neither seems that bad, to me..... I wouldn't be terribly concerned. If a paradox wiped out mankind from ever existing, we'd never know it. Also, if we were caught in a giant time-loop, we'd never know it.

But I happen to think that there is a certain part of us that exists beyond space and time and in that way, it cannot be destroyed or erased.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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That would really suck if somebody changed the timeline to where there is a 24-7 marathon of NBC's Primetime lineup. I cant bear to think about it any more



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 06:25 AM
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I think that humanity still existing proves that timetravel is never invented or imposible or that changing something effectivly creates a new universe.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 03:53 PM
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Wasn't this an episode on Star Trek?



posted on Jul, 11 2006 @ 12:21 AM
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I am trying to highlight the dangers of time travel, every small change in the past has big conseqences to the future, it is very difficult to predict what will happen in the future when something changes in the past.

Accidents will happen no matter how careful one is, I am trying to find out the worst possible scenario when something goes wrong. Repairs may not be possible if only one time line can exist.



posted on Jul, 11 2006 @ 12:46 AM
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Are you building a time machine by any chance??


Seriously, I don't know which would be worse.

The first one I guess would be the better alternative given the choice. No man = no wars on this planet.

And if we were caught in a time loop, the way things are in the world today, it is quite likely that we would be in the middle of a nuclear war within the time loop. That would really suck. Keep getting blown to bits, over and over for all of eternity. But it could be good too. A endless timeloop infers we would'nt ever age.

I think you're onto something, you're a GENIUS!!



posted on Jul, 11 2006 @ 12:53 AM
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Originally posted by Mechanic 32
The first one I guess would be the better alternative given the choice. No man = no wars on this planet.


Ya, I kinda dislike mankind too.


Originally posted by Mechanic 32
And if we were caught in a time loop, the way things are in the world today, it is quite likely that we would be in the middle of a nuclear war within the time loop. That would really suck. Keep getting blown to bits, over and over for all of eternity. But it could be good too. A endless timeloop infers we would'nt ever age.


Ouch, imagine the pain, THE PAIN.....
I would like to have a future, even one where I died of old age but have children who will live in a better world than mine instead of being young forever and being suck in a time loop.


Originally posted by Mechanic 32
I think you're onto something, you're a GENIUS!!



Thanks.......



posted on Jul, 11 2006 @ 03:36 AM
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If time travel is possible then surely all time frames must coexist in order that transfer between two points can be possible, so on that basis any potential paradox must already have happened although I suppose that this may be overcome if different potential time schemes exist in multiple environments.

However, the question is largely irrelevant as in either case we would be blissfully unaware of the situation. We would, of course, be equally unaware of any "meddling" with history which could take place on a regular basis as the "new" history would automatically become the only history as far as we, the observers, are concerned.

Quantum physics may take a different view of the topic as it can be argued that it would only be possible to witness past events which are consistent with your present (apparently).

www.newscientist.com...



posted on Jul, 11 2006 @ 06:30 AM
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Time travel is a very thought provoking and intriguing topic. But do you believe it is actually possible? Would it only be one way(forward) if it was possible? And how about reverse time travel, going back in time. This suggests you could meet up with yourself. But we know that that would not be possible, as there is only one of you.

Hmmm... I need to do a bit more research on this.

I would say forward time travel may be possible. For instance if one could travel at twice the speed of light, time as we know it would appear to pass twice as fast as well. At least that's how I understand it. So if I travel at twice the speed of light for one year, two years would have actually passed but, for me it would only appear to have been one year. Or is it the other way around??

Just thinking about this is getting confusing.


But anyway, good food for thought.

[edit on 7/11/2006 by Mechanic 32]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Mechanic 32
I would say forward time travel may be possible. For instance if one could travel at twice the speed of light, time as we know it would appear to pass twice as fast as well. At least that's how I understand it. So if I travel at twice the speed of light for one year, two years would have actually passed but, for me it would only appear to have been one year. Or is it the other way around??
[edit on 7/11/2006 by Mechanic 32]


That is not really time travel but time dilation if I am not wrong.

You travel so fast that time on the outside seem to slow down as you can only view light that has already bounced off objects in the past and not the the present light that has just bounced off the object and cannot catch up to you yet. I think.

It would seem like a short jump into the future, but in realty, a long time has pasted. So when you finally arrive at your destination it becomes a surprize and looks like time travel because you would probably have missed out seeing the long time period that happened inbetween the travel.

I could be wrong.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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okay, how about in reverse.

Do you think it is possible to meet yourself??

I only ask because since if we could go into the future, it's only logical that we would be able to return to the present as well. And if that is possible, then it opens up the possibility of going backwards from the present.

Hmmm... My brain is smoking from trying to think too hard.


But I like this discussion.

[edit on 7/12/2006 by Mechanic 32]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:12 PM
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Mechanic 32

Time would seem to slow down within the vessel and outside from the perspective of the people inside the vessel who are travelling faster than light, sure seems like a short jump for the ones inside, but in realty it isn't.

--------------------------------------

timeless test

if a time machine can travel into the past and stop in that time period to observe the events, an accident which may cause the time machine to get stuck in the past which then has potential to cause a time paradox.

Lets just hope the ones with evil intent do not get their hands on a time machine if any change in the past causes an instant paradox in the future where no one is even aware of it. When time paradoxes happens, there maybe little or no evidence of that change in perspective of the people in the future and to repair the damage may not be possible or may also result in great more undesirable effects with the time line.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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Well hmmmm... again.

I don't think that it would be possible to go back in time from the present though. Because I don't believe you can ever meet yourself. Perhaps in a parallel universe maybe, or another dimension.

But to meet a younger you. It does'nt seem possible. And I think that if we cannot travel back in time, that we might not be able to achieve forward time travel as well.

But it is understandable about the getting stuck in the past, if it were possible to do in the first place.

We need a couple more people to actively get in on this discusion. I'm sure that there may be other insights into this paradox.

But for me, I gotta go for now. talk to you later, ixiy.



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 02:09 PM
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Interesting post Mechanic 32, nice talking to you too.

Here's a very interesting experiment if time travel is possible,

1) Get a time machine, got back in time to meet youself.
2) When you get back to the future, use the time machine to go back to the same time to meet your original self and your other time travelling self.
3) Repeat this process again and again.
4) Have a big party with your many selves ......... hahahaaa

5) Invade the Earth....hahahaaa



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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No, it probably would be 1000 times easier just to clone yourself. At least we already have the technology to do that.




posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by ixiy
Lets assume that there is only one time line and no other can exist in parallel or as an alternate.


Very interesting idea! Given the above constraint, I believe it would be impossible to travel back in time and cause any problem at all. If there is only one time line; no parallels, no alternates, then if one traveled back in time, it would be history that that happened, and any 'impact' would be precisely those that would generate the events in which the time machine was invented and someone traveled back in time.

So, in that scenario, no paradox or trap is possible.


I haven't worked out yet exactly what could happen by traveling ahead in time, still working on that...



posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic

Originally posted by ixiy
Lets assume that there is only one time line and no other can exist in parallel or as an alternate.


Very interesting idea! Given the above constraint, I believe it would be impossible to travel back in time and cause any problem at all. If there is only one time line; no parallels, no alternates, then if one traveled back in time, it would be history that that happened, and any 'impact' would be precisely those that would generate the events in which the time machine was invented and someone traveled back in time.

So, in that scenario, no paradox or trap is possible.


I haven't worked out yet exactly what could happen by traveling ahead in time, still working on that...


Actually that would mean that the time paradox has already happened as a result of you travelling back in time and causing a change. The very first or orginial time did not have any time paradox until someone when back in time to messed with it.

An alternated time line is created which merged with the orginial, so that no one remebers what the orginial time line was like. An orginal time line has to exist before any changes can take place in it. If a time paradox has already happened no one from then onwards will remeber it.

Instant time paradox rule..........
Any changes in the past instantly affects the future such that nobody knows that a change has occured.



posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 07:28 PM
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Originally posted by ixiy
An alternated time line is created which merged with the orginial, ...


Ah, but this violates your original restriction:


Originally posted by ixiy
Lets assume that there is only one time line and no other can exist in parallel or as an alternate.


If we do not allow alternate or parallel timelines, then we can't allow them. If one is created and then merges with the main line, if it exists for any amount of time > 0, then we have an alternate time line.

After thinking it over during the day, if we dis-allow such alternate or parallel time lines, then I think we are left with two cases:

1) Time travel, at least to the past, is impossible, because any such travel will have a > 0 amount of impact, therefore will create alternate timelines, which we have dis-allowed.

1a) Time travel to the future is also impossible, for largely the same reason. The 'future' from any point is the past from another point.

2) If time travel in this scenario is possible, that implies that what we as humans commonly perceive as linear time does not exist. Time, in that case, is a static entity, much like a square mile of ground. You can be at one point, and not be able to see or perceive other points, but they still exist simultaneously. As you travel around in that square mile, you perceive different aspects of the terrain. But it's all there all the time (to use a word
), it is just your perception that moves.

Option 2 implies then that everything is determined now. In fact, 'now' is all there is as regards time. Everything that is 'going' to happen is just as determined as everything that 'has' happened. So 'time travel' becomes itself an illusion... the traveler is just traveling around the landscape that is considered time. Any paradoxes are also illusion, as everything is already set.

And really, options 1 and 2 are really the same, then. If time is an illusion, then time travel is also an illusion in the sense people usually mean it.


So, I think that given the initial conditions, I still maintain that there can be no paradoxes 'introduced', because everything that appears to be a paradox is merely an attribute of the temporal terrain, merely perceived from differing points of view.

Now I have to ask: Are you a time traveler? And therefore know that I'm waaay out there in left field?



posted on Jul, 14 2006 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
Now I have to ask: Are you a time traveler? And therefore know that I'm waaay out there in left field?



No, I am not a time traveler, and this is just a theory. Maybe the use of alternate time line was wrong what I was trying to say was, that any changes to the orginal time line may instantly affect the future which would make the changes in time quite permanent.

This theory is exploring what may happen if the time line can be changed, paradox and time loops will be a possiblity.

But lets asuming that the time line is set and cannot be changed, and that time traveling is nothing but an illusion, what happens when an accident occurs with the time machine while it is in a past/future time line? Does it automatically revert back to its present time line where it first started or does it crash into the time line that it was traveling to?

How can the time line remain fixed, when one can aquire information and knowledge from the future that may change the present time line when the time traveler returns with that information and reveals it or uses it ot his/her advantage?

Since the time line is fixed, no changes are possible no matter what, so what if this time traveler aquires anti-matter bomb technology from the future, builds one and denotates it in his/her present time line where it first started? Will the time line remain the same?

Is it possible that when one travels in time, he/she may become trapped in the illusion and can never return to the original set time line. He/she will continue to stay in the illusioned time line and affect new illusions (time paradox) to an illusioned time line and not the orginal?

Any information and knowledge gained form time travelling (past or future) has the potential to change current events in the present time, even if it was gain through the illusion. eg, knowledge of past times, who was jack the ripper?, other unsovled crimes, etc, etc, knowledge from the future, advanced technologies and its construction methods.

The orginal time line will not change only if the time traveler cannot return to it, because once he/she can, changes can be made with these knowledge. Think about the anti-matter bomb event, I am pretty sure it can cause a change.



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