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Neutering the Navy to Save the Whales

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posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 12:53 PM
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A coalition of animal rights and environmental advocacy groups have won a court battle granting them an injunction banning the USN from operating certain active sonar equipment during upcoming ASW [ anti submarine warfare ] exercises . The temporary restraining order banning the use of active sonar in the Hawaii area was granted by Judge Cooper a Federal justice , after environmental groups returned to court to argue that the DoD was granting the military exemptions from federal legislation in an attempt to circumvent law suits .

 



www.chron.com
This week, environmentalists won a temporary restraining order to stop the Navy from using a high-intensity sonar during this year's Rim of the Pacific 2006 exercise, which had scheduled sonar use to start Thursday…………..

The Natural Resources Defense Council, the environmental group leading the legal battle, says whales have been stranded and died on beaches worldwide after being exposed to mid-frequency sonar. It says sonar can impair the ability of marine mammals to use their own underwater sounds to navigate, avoid predators, find food and care for their young.
"Whales and other marine life should not have to die for practice," said Joel Reynolds, council senior attorney. "Of course the Navy needs to train, and our lawsuit doesn't seek to prevent them from training. Our goal is simply to require them to incorporate a series of common-sense measures."



Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


This is eco-extremism at its worst , even the causal link between whale beachings and sonar is unproven , with the Navy strenuously disputing it . whales have beached them selves in various numbers since human records began , and regularly beach in areas where no sonar exercises occur . pollution , commercial maritime activity and other factors are all thought to play a part in the beachings , to blame it all on sonars is short sighted madness .

There is no reason for the navy to recklessly endanger marine life , but they must be allowed to train hard – to fight easy . And they cannot do that with one hand tied behind their backs

The 1972 legislation used to bring this case , the Marine Mammal Protection Act is so hopelessly open ended . In theory it could be used to argue that [any naval activity was “ harassment “ of some example of marine fauna .


Its good to know that when WWIII starts the whales will be safe , at least till the balloon goes up . As it stands I suspect that NK and others will be rubbing their hands with glee at the realisation that should conflict occur , the USN will be that bit less prepared .

But the whales will be safe , so we can all sleep soundly



Related News Links:
www.cnn.com

text of the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) of 1972 :

www.nmfs.noaa.gov

blogger analysis of the case :

michellemalkin.com

[edit on 8-7-2006 by ignorant_ape]

[edit on 7/8/06 by FredT]

[edit on 8/7/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Eco-extremism? YOU MUST BE JOKING. Why. Because people actually care about wildlife and animals, and don't believe that "national security" should be cover-all blanket category to excuse the government from their part in screwing up the envinorment.

I think that there should be a world-wide ban personally on certain types of active sonar because it is destructive to the dolphins and whales. It is believed thats why they are beaching so much, and at a higher rate in areas used for naval training exercises. Its not "neutering the navy" as you claim. The navy has many more effective tools at their disposal they can still use.

We do share this world with wildlife, and they also deserve a fair chance to live. Claims of national security should not be used as excuses to ignore this.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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NONSENSE!!! Yes I'll get a warning for a one line response but nonetheless...NONSENSE!!!



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:41 PM
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Would the loss of dolphins and whales be such a bad thing? They are the top of their food chain anyways, how would the system fail without them? No I do not advocate wailing or the indirect suffering of the animals by any navy. I am just curious, exactly what ecological backlash would the world face if these creatures went extinct?

I would love for these creatures to live peacefully in their environment without our interference. I am just curious, how will their extinction affect the ocean ecology? please do not flame or attack me, I am just asking a legitamate question.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:46 PM
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Ok, let's say there WAS a worldwide ban on this type of sonar, to save the whales and dolphins. If we went to war, do you SERIOUSLY think that some country that thinks it would have an advantage using it is going to say "Oh my god! We better now use this sonar because it might kill some whales!" Better to train with it, figure out if it works as well as you think it does, and then put it away until needed.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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Well, this should be short lived, putting our sailors lives at risk by denying them adequate training so we can save dolphins who are "allegedly" dying from active sonar? Where is this world going?

[edit on 8-7-2006 by WestPoint23]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:25 PM
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we lose creatures like the whales and dolphins or things like the coral reefs, glaciers and rain forests to all of our impoverishment. To say its only ———————— (fill in the blank) or that we lose ————————— (fill in the blank, oil or weaponry or advantage etc) is simplistic beyond words. The world is precious beyond price and when we destroy callously for some temperory advantage, we lose and the loss is permanant.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Very sad to see and understand that the world is not only shared by humans.

We are just the dominant and supposedly smarter group in the animal species.

Unfortunately we have to step over any other species because we are Special

How sad that is not respect for any other lives in this planet, even humans do not respect each other either.


Our human soldiers need their training so they can kill other humans in a war and be able to win.


[edit on 8-7-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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I'm not saying that we should test and test and test and *IF* the sonar is what's responsible for killing the whales, keep using it all the time. But do any of you REALLY think that if there's a war that our enemies are going to NOT use this sonar to detect OUR submarines, for fear of killing the whales?



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:43 PM
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Marge this world is not perfect, its naive to think we all get along, its one thing to dream and hope but when you come back to reality you will be glad those soldiers are our vanguard in this chaotic world. That's right, those soldiers, not Shamu or Flipper, but our men and women in uniform.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Sorry....while I love my country, I love my planet more and such sentiments while understandable and common.... are also tedious beyond words, worn and frayed about the cuff. We will never have world peace so long as everybody keeps saying its a pipe dream.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:49 PM
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It's not a pipe dream, and SOMEDAY it's going to happen. But that someday isn't now. We KNOW we're fighting. We KNOW we have enemies out there.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 09:09 PM
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So here is a crazy option, instead of killing our enemies because of whatever reason, why don't we figure out how to make our enemies our firends, and make other peoples enemies friendly to each other? Oh wait I forgot that is only wishful thinking.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 10:44 PM
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Instead of the two groups arguing back and forth about sonar killing marine life, why not put some effort into studying the impacts? Or is that just too logical?

God forbid we actually take the high road for once. :shk:

Which enemy is the US preparing for that uses subs? Iran?

[edit on 9-7-2006 by Duzey]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 10:57 PM
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With all the advanced technological breakthroughs at our fingertips, can't we develop and implement a better sonar that causes no harm to whales and dolphins? Maybe we are just intent on doing whatever we feel like anyway and won't be happy until we finally are the only living creatures left standing on the Earth? Ridiculous that something can't be done with all the knowledge that is available to us.



posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
Marge this world is not perfect, its naive to think we all get along, its one thing to dream and hope but when you come back to reality you will be glad those soldiers are our vanguard in this chaotic world. That's right, those soldiers, not Shamu or Flipper, but our men and women in uniform.


There is no vanguard in this chaotic world. Empires and nations come and go. Even ours will vanish someday.

But nature is forever. Once a spiecies is gone, its gone forever. There is no bringing it back.

And soldiers sure as hell wont protect us from ecological disasters, famines, climate changes, destruction of natural balance, and every other ill that will come from having a mentality that anything is justifiable in the name of "national defense".

There is no point of defending a nation when all you will be defending is a dead, barren, inhospitable hellhole.

And even though dolphins and whales dont live on our soil per se, they live in our waters and play important roles in keeping the natural cycle.



posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

There is no vanguard in this chaotic world. Empires and nations come and go. Even ours will vanish someday.

But nature is forever. Once a species is gone, its gone forever. There is no bringing it back.



You got my vote on that statement.

I could not agree more with you and those are the very true words.

The road to enlightenment is throuout understanding of our environment.

Only then we would be truly free and wars will be not more.

But that is not profitable, wars are profitable, weapons are profitable, killing humans and animals are profitable.

What a shame.


[edit on 9-7-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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Neutering the Navy to Save the Whales?????


Wish the title read Navy Neuters Eco terrorists. Now that is something I would love to see.


Give them enough rope and sooner or later they are going to hang themselves, the ECO Nuts that is; not the Navy they are the good guys



posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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Eco terrorists?

Pointing out that this sonar is killing off massive amounts of marine life makes them terrorists?

Good Lord you people are nuts...



posted on Jul, 9 2006 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex


Pointing out that this sonar is killing off massive amounts of marine life makes them terrorists?



Yes it does. There is no concrete proof that sonar affects them in anyway. The ECO Nuts just claim it does.

What about the thousands that beached themselves long before sonar was invented? You can't blame that on the navy can you? NOPE



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