Russian Air Force to get 250 Yak-130 jets(5 Gen trainer +Light strite Aircraft)

By the way, Chinawhite, you mentioned Ukrainean engines on the L-15, I didn't know they were building fighter-jet engines, and these are with afterburner
Can you give me more detail?

[edit on 15-7-2006 by Pazo]

Ukraine already makes the AI-25TLK for the K-8 trainer in chinese service and is said to be providing the AI-222K-25F for the L-15 which has an after burner depending on customer choice. But according to most forums the ukraine is going to be providing the engines instead of the DV-2 which the L-15 was first powered with

Hey! i always thought the L-15 uses engines from Slovakia

BTW : Yak seem to have sold the Yak-130 designs to Iran as well.

Check out their M-ATF Shafaq trainer/strike aircraft project :


It seems like the front end of the Yak-130 is morphed with the twin tail fins from the Mig-I-2000.

Also, The JL-9 looks like a J-7E fitted with an FC-1 nose/intakes.

The JL-9:


The J-7E:


The FC-1 nose/intake:


[edit on 15/7/06 by Stealth Spy]

From some positions the intake and the nose might look similar but in reaility its very much different




The relation between the JL-9 and the J-7E is like a lemon and orange, if you get the meaning of it

Prelude,

>>
Why dont you say that you cant bear the fact that Russian air force is improving....you speak about funds ...dont forget Russia is the second largest defense sender (3rd largest according some).
>>

Oh please. Russia is populated by a bunch of wannabe morons sir. The entire progression of the Cold War is marked by monkey-see-do emulation of capabilities rather than innovation of mission.

You _never_ fight the way your enemy fights best! Specifically, if you want to destroy a threat air force, you don't do it with systems of like value!

The Yak-130 and 'someday' PAK-FA is furthering Russia's dancing-bear image of halfwit engineering 'slavshly' copying operational paradigms on a shoe string budget of technical if not production mimicry.

If you want to see the way they SHOULD be going, you should look at _zero_ manned rating (which means your 60-80hr/year Sniper pilot corps, 20hr/year Novices are no longer an active factor).

And a switch back to the kinds of drone systems which once scared the West pissless. It was not MiG-25s that were flying over Germany and the Low Countries, all the way down the coast to Spain and back. It was the Jastreb. TEN YEARS before the Foxbat flew.

THAT is what a modern fighter should look like. Not a trainer aircraft trying to pretend to greatness. Not an Air Force composed of RHIP old men and flying hours morte du jours. But a platform that can meet the U.S. and other Western air powers on _advantaged terms_ relative to total numbers and total dedication with a _shared_ training acumen.

Until you get away from walking in a giant's footsteps because you know no better, you will never do anything 'competitive' with your own innovative style. Until you make the giant turn around and wonder why your are not gallumphing along behind him, you will never steal a march by which you make /him/ smaller as he has to chase _you_.

>>
No other country in this world today apart from USA has the a aircraft Industry and tradition similar to Russia.
>>

Crap. The U.S. hasn't produced more than 100 tacjets per year for home use in more than a decade. But the jets we build are the jets that are bought and _will beat_ the threat. Whereas the Su-30 is a warmed over Gen-3 bird looking for a reason to exist and only purchased by nations that can absolutely neither afford nor morally lay claim to buy anything else.

Basically, you sell junk to 3rd world monsters.

Thus your entire comparitive analogy hides an inferiority complex ten miles wide. Because rather than be 'just like U.S.' you should be building _to your own bloody needs_. Whoring military technology across the globe 'on the off chance' that one of yours will mortally embarrass one of ours in a pissant war so that you can secretly do the pump-fist "Yessss!" ego trip is juvenile at best sir.

And an incredible waste of money compared to the need to first-build a civil infrastructure which has not markedly changed or improved since 'Glasnost' was announced TWO decades ago.

>>
And surely the project will make a lot of money ...after all we have our Technically underdeveloped and ignorant customer -China
>>

They are on your border sir. Not mine. While I have no more faith in your sales of military hardware as being 'single point investments' which will not undergo further reengineering than I do the 'technology controls' inherent to U.S. manufacturers like Boeing sending advanced NMC machine tools to a country of slave-ants, the fact of the matter is that the Asian TMDs are _full of Asians_ and if it ever comes to it, you are planting the seeds of halving your own empire.

Again.

>>
educate yourselves :
www.globalsecurity.org...
www.airforce-technology.com...
>>

No gumby. Stop reading brochures like they were worth the paper they were written on and start thinking about the political, moral and operational costs of going with what is obviously a cheap-sale solution to the absolute lowest common denominator of market user.

LCA/LSA and COIN are one and the same. i.e. Aircraft whose sole advantage (cheapness) is allied to their use against the largely helpless. Whether in your own backofbeyond hellholes like Chechnya or someone else', that is in and of itself a sign of how little has changed in the Russian mindset of butcher-all-and-let-Lenin-sort'em-out utter lack of conscience.

Yet, KNOWING this, and KNOWING that your pilots continue to fly as little as 20hrs per year, you are setting up a 'new training pipe' of needless capability growth while your own people live hand to mouth and the population grows not only dumber but _smaller_ as your best and brightest run like striped apes to /anywhere/ else.

There is no need for a Yak-130 buy of 250 units. It's pure crass commercialism using non-elective tributary funds from a taxated people that cannot do a damn thing to say no. All so that 'the few' can maintain an apparatchik loyalist lifestyle far more corrupt than anything the West undertakes. By artificially creating a baseline production capability which they then sell on the cheap to foreign customers.

How ironic that BOTH the U.S. -and- the FSU are so alike in this one area of 'anti capitalism'. Namely the use of guaranteed federal funds to justify their private projects to the point where they are profitable /after/ the taxpayer has funded their development.

You want real military capability? Develop a reusable SAM that hunts targets for more than 3 minutes at a time and can make a second pass if it misses. A SAM which is cheap enough to be launched 100-200-300 at a time, even by a backwater.

You want real /strike/ capability? Develop high density digital architecture computer industry and use it to make small bombs land with robotic precision off a robotic _loitering_ platform.

Don't play tail chase with the Americans on manned systems which you cannot afford the numbers to match our own technology. And which are about to be block-obsolesced anyway by approaching Dawn Of DEWS.


KPl.

ch1466,

you should really put a lid on it, you are way out of line brother. people are discussing planes here, if you want to share your caveman political views with someone go somewhere else, beacause no one here is interested in them. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one here who cares to read your posts, which are diaria in words but a constipation in ideas, and that is only because I consider it impolite to answer someone without reading what he has to say. But you're making it increasingly difficult and are in danger of loosing your sole reader.
Don't you think the insults to the Russian people and other countries with thousands of years of history in culture, art, science and warfare are a bit too much coming from YOU. At least the smartest people in Russia and China are the Russians and Chinese respectively, while the smartest people in the USA are by no means the red-necks, but the foreign students and scientists.
P.S. I think I know where your love affair with UCAV's comes from. You probably wanted to be a fighter-jock once (or even were one) but for some reason, physical or most probably mental were found unfit. Thus you have developed a hatred against manned aviation (and mankind in general) and are trying to convince yourselve that UCAVs will take over and they will let you fly one from your home PC. Well guess what. It ain't gonna happen any time soon. Not because of the technical difficulties, but because of political and moral complications. No voter in his right mind will stand by a government which turns war into a video game. Or at least no one in Russia would, but then again, maybe in the Home of the Brave someone will like the idea...

edited for profanity


[edit on 29-7-2006 by masqua]

Well i decided to report you as even i had trouble ( well i tried and i normally manage) stooping low enough to dignify that 'thing' with words.

Originally posted by Pazo
ch1466, you need to get a life man, seriously. The Cold War is over, relax, take a deep breath, feel the love coming from Russia.

The cold war is NOT over but i don't think he cares or really talks about that...

They are not going to nuke your a** anytime soon.

They do not have to considering what sort of weather America has been having for the last twenty years. Not like they would 'lose' if they did decide to just do the nuke thing.....

We're talking planes here because most of us love planes and flying.

*Yawn*.

You on the other hand have only wars on your mind. Chill out, piece

Pfft. He is trying to describe why we DO have wars even thought no one really wants or likes them. Why do i have to keep telling people this obvious fact? Do any of you actually read what the man says?

#@#%*&#*

Stellar

[edit on 29-7-2006 by StellarX]

Well I actually DO read what he writes, although it is difficult because he feels he has to post on every single topic and no less than 8000 words. The last piece I read from him (about ways to handle the Iraqis), made the hair on my back stand up, but that piece was not edited for nazi propaganda, because nobody reported it.
Thanks by the way for having my post edited, this forum is a better place now
Anyway, since the topic for the Yak-130 is effectively killed, if you have any further comments feel free to send me a u2u

Originally posted by Pazo
Well I actually DO read what he writes, although it is difficult because he feels he has to post on every single topic and no less than 8000 words.

He does NOT post on every single topic and the 8000 words is the result of having the type of technical and situational knowledge that you should crave having. I would understand if your tirade came from envy but i did not get that impression.

The last piece I read from him (about ways to handle the Iraqis), made the hair on my back stand up, but that piece was not edited for nazi propaganda, because nobody reported it.

He does not propose that America starts wars but that it WINS when it does WHATEVER the cost to them or their enemy. The reason we fight in such 'PC' ways ( they are not really but that's the impression and reasoning the media uses to excuse the complete ineffectiveness of the US army in Iraq ) these days is because the aggressor normally lacks the moral authority - and knows it - that winning completely at any price requires. If the population is not behind your policy you can not sustain casualties and you can't inflict the slaughter that a righteous cause might sometimes require as your 'voters' just wont stand for it.

I am not one who advocates war but one who demands that a just war ( it could conceivably happen i suppose) be fought to conclusion ASAP with the minimum suffering caused and not just dragged out because 'war presidents' requires wars.

Thanks by the way for having my post edited, this forum is a better place now

Anyway, since the topic for the Yak-130 is effectively killed, if you have any further comments feel free to send me a u2u

I think the forum is a far better place without that post and whoever wants to get back on topic should feel free to do so.

Stellar

Gee, we got your permission to get back on topic, thanks buddy. I'll pass. I think your revelations about war are far more important to the public than a Russian trainer aircraft. Maybe if just the mods renamed the topic to "KPI & Stellar explain why War is Fantastic" and you're good to go

Originally posted by Pazo
Gee, we got your permission to get back on topic, thanks buddy.

Yes you do and it's my pleasure...

I'll pass. I think your revelations about war are far more important to the public than a Russian trainer aircraft.

Well i always said that if one keeps at it long enough you will eventually find something to agree on.

Maybe if just the mods renamed the topic to "KPI & Stellar explain why War is Fantastic" and you're good to go

War sucks but so does the 'peace' without justice the winners so frequently impose on the losers. I do not WANT war but when nations as strong as the US refuse to win wars and impose years of low level terror on people, they could easily have subjugated in the first place, i get very angry as such wars are clearly not about right or wrong but about social engineering and the destruction of hope.

Stellar