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teenagers ,what they get up to,and the LAW stinks!

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posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 01:27 PM
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Well, although the law says that you dont have any power, yes you do!.

I am 16 and still live at home, and if mum or step dad says i aint going out, that is the end of the argument. Sure, i go all mardy and snappy, but that is the rule. It is your house helen670, and whilst your daughter lives there, she does so under your rules. If she doesnt like those rules, kick her out. Trust me, within a week (or a month if she is a bit proud), she will be clamouring to come home. If this situation arises again, kick her out again (obviously warn her), but this time say that you wont accept her back. She wont like it, but hey, thats life...

Btw, I was kicked out, and I never ever want that to happen again...




posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by duckiciao
Well, although the law says that you dont have any power, yes you do!.

I am 16 and still live at home, and if mum or step dad says i aint going out, that is the end of the argument. Sure, i go all mardy and snappy, but that is the rule. It is your house helen670, and whilst your daughter lives there, she does so under your rules. If she doesnt like those rules, kick her out. Trust me, within a week (or a month if she is a bit proud), she will be clamouring to come home. If this situation arises again, kick her out again (obviously warn her), but this time say that you wont accept her back. She wont like it, but hey, thats life...

Btw, I was kicked out, and I never ever want that to happen again...


hi duckiciao,
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
This is an ongoing issue, and she has left a few times with stay over at friends...I worry that she has too much trust in people she just meets.
She actually believes that just because people are nice and all(with words)they must be trusted as being a good friend,and this is what worries me.
To have trust in a person is good, I have no problem with that, but not so that you call them a 'friend' for the first time you meet them.
At the moment she is at home,with friends coming over everyday....at least I get to know who they are, and they do seem nice.
Things have happened in the last few weeks that maybe she has woken up...
A few days ago another of her friends got killed....she was in the car with her brother and some friends, and the driver lost control and hit a tree ,right in front of her house.....something like this probably could not have been avoided, as it was her time to go.
I guess if 'stuff' is meant to happen,then it will,and we cannot stop it.
I posted this originally because I was upset .......innocent people die all the time and it makes me mad, but there is not much I can do, but simply give good advice and hope that her friends and herself, come to realize that all is not what it seems...
I guess it's the choices in this life that we make, that lead us to where we are today or meant to be at.
And all is not lost if we choose the wrong one, for we all make mistakes and learn from them.(well, hope that we do learn!)
Sometimes the Wrong ones lead to an understanding and we learn from them, at other times we must accept what it is that befalls us.
I guess it makes one stronger when 'stuff' happens.
thanks again...
Take care,
helen



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 09:13 PM
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I feel for you Helen, I don't have any teenagers myself (I am only 26) but I know that dealing with teenagers can be rough.

Teenagers are at a point where they are just starting to have their first taste of adult style freedom and sometimes they don't know what to do with it or how to use it responsibly. I mean, I grew up in a very strict home, was barely allowed to do anything, and was a fairly good kid, but even I made a couple stupid decisions when I was a teenager.

Of course your daughter (and teens in general) are not stupid! Especially if she is smart enough to throw the law in your face. Where I live we don't have a law like that. Here parents have authority over you until you are 18 or graduated from high school.

It seems like you have to teach them and warn them of all the things you can before they become a teenager and after that they pretty much have to learn from their own mistakes. I agree with duckiciao that maybe it's time to give her a little tough love. If the law says she can do what she wants, then she can do it outside of your house. I know you don't want anything bad to happen to your daughter and you want to protect her, but it sounds like she is never going to learn the consequences to her actions unless she learns the hard way.

What was her reaction to her friend getting hurt anyways? Did it effect her at all?



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 10:24 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
What was her reaction to her friend getting hurt anyways? Did it effect her at all?


Hi snowflake/

Well the girl that jumped off the building is still in hospital, she was a girlfriend of my daughters friend....
The girl that got killed (RIP)just a few days ago was a friend from school.....of-course it made her think of life and where she is headed.
To what she wants to do, i have no idea...she keeps changing her ideas on what she wants,and it upsets me coz she is not stupid but quite smart who thinks that she can solve each ones problems in life....dont we all at 16?
Her problem is that she feels that all people must like her and she tries to keep up with their expectations of what she thinks they want her to be.I have tried to explain that it is not as she thinks, but that her true friends will like her for who she is and not someone who will be molded into something that others want her to be.
The young girl that was killed in the car accident has a twin sister and is also a friend of my daughters, and they spoke at the funeral and will be catching up.....all teenagers can learn something from what happened,there were about 200 young ppl at the funeral...many in deep thought and for how long this will last, God only knows.
At the moment, my daughter seems to have quitened down at home....could also be that her father is away for a bit...
Thanks for asking,
take care,
helen



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 10:41 PM
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Also helen, theres curfew laws for anybody under the age of 18 in the United States. If its a weekday, they cannot be out in the streets past 11pm, and on weeknights past 12am.

And whatever cop you were talking to doesn't know the law very well. Your kid is your responsibility, and can be held liable for her actions, even while she's unsupervised.

For example, if she hada hit and run with your car, while drunk, you'd be liable, and arrested, not her.



posted on Jul, 16 2006 @ 10:52 PM
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Originally posted by WolfofWar
Also helen, theres curfew laws for anybody under the age of 18 in the United States. If its a weekday, they cannot be out in the streets past 11pm, and on weeknights past 12am.

And whatever cop you were talking to doesn't know the law very well. Your kid is your responsibility, and can be held liable for her actions, even while she's unsupervised.

For example, if she hada hit and run with your car, while drunk, you'd be liable, and arrested, not her.


Hi wolf/
Actually I like the U.S laws....I would say pick them up and put them in a cell overnight(kept safe of-course)
I spoke to a cop and I can be arrested for holding her 'hostage' in my home!
At the moment she wants to go with a friend to Sydney(to get away from bad friends,so she says.
It could easily be done here where she is, :shk: :shk: :shk:
and I for one, do not like the idea of her moving there.....she makes friends far too easily and Sydney is not the place I would like her to go, for many reasons.
As for now, she seems ok, but tomorrow is another day and who knows.....
I just can't figure out if I'm getting stronger or I'm just adabting to her being like this.
Thanks for the comment Wolf/
take care
helen



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Do i have a say?, not according to the 'stupid law', I dont!

What are you talking about?

If you are the child's guardian, you can prevent them from going somewhere. At 16, I think , she can apply for emancipation from you, but thats a different story.



) that went to this 'hotel' was in hospital for jumping off the balcony, drunk and all......the latest, she is on life support, with spinal injuries and head injuries....all for a stupid, drunken, so called FUN NIGHT OUT!!!

I am sure that there was more than just alcholhol intoxicating them that night. I don't know what the situation is in Australia or how much of a 'city' this city was, but if its anything like the rest of the western world, you can be sure that there was pills and smoke going on too.

[quiotye]After the fact, one cannot do anything but blame society for all the B.S that is out there and allowed to continue.
I'm sorry, but if a parent lets their kid go to a party in the city where some other kids have rented a hotel room, and their kid gets hurt, its no one's fault but the parent's, especially if the kid is 16. I don't know what the law is in australia, but something tells me that they aren't emanicpated adults automatically.

After the fact, one cannot do anything but blame society for all the B.S that is out there and allowed to continue.

I very much doubt that there is a law that prevents you from grounding your kids and throwing them into their rooms.


the Law allows 16 year olds to leave home.

That means she can apply for emancipation, not that, when she lives at home and has a guardian (be it parent or one appointed by the state, or even when under the supervision of a school teacher) that she can come and go as she pleases.

Are you saying that your kid if going to have herself legally emancipated if you ground her?


but the system does nothing to combat the problems we are faced with today.....

Because its your job, not the system's.


It is very limited to what one can do, especially if the Law works against you.

I am really curious, does australia have some law that doesn't exist anywhwere in the world?
You are the parent. You are responsible for the kid. You can't beat or abuse them. You can control them. You are their legal guardian, their legal guardian, they are not an independent person, they have a legal guardian who holds power over them. If you say 'you are grounded', there is no law in the world that says they don't have to listen to you, except in like the congo or tajikastan or something like that.

they all seem to know the law,especially when it suits them!

What law is she citing? You kid is pulling a fast one on you, there is no law that permits children to disobey their parents.


When she turned 16, she said that all her friends were allowed to watch what they wanted and go on their own to parties and what have you....I didn't and don't care what others thought was the right or wrong thing to do.....I did what i saw fit for her best interest.

And indeed only you can know that, you are the parent. But the child doesn't have some legal right to disobey you merely because they are 16, unless australia has some obscenely weird laws. What law, specifically, is she citing, or is she just saying that she's "16 and is independant"???

You noted that when she was younger, you'd let her go out with her friends. Thats a privilege, dicatated by the parents. If she is disobeying you, then you have the ability to punish her, not beat her senseless or anything like that, but if you say that she can't go out, then she can't go out, period.


Punishment for small mistakes is pretty stupid and in fact leaves a memorable scar in place.
So is to control achild by using force or severe punishment.

Indeed, and before long, she will be living away from you anyway, and will need to make decisions on her own. But lets not say that its the law that is in the way here.

The young girl that had the accident is in critical condition.....she is on life support at the moment

Indeed, that will probably serve as a lesson to your daughter. She might see, over time, why you didn't want her running off to a hotel room party in the city, with alcohol and god-knows-what else.


A few days ago another of her friends got killed....she was in the car with her brother and some friends, and the driver lost control and hit a tree ,right in front of her house.....something like this probably could not have been avoided, as it was her time to go.

!?
Was the kid drinking? That has nothing to do with it being a person's 'time to go'. The unavoidable is unavoidable, but we have no way of knowing that, we can't just engage in risky action and say 'if its my time its my time'.


WolfofWar
Also helen, theres curfew laws for anybody under the age of 18 in the United States. If its a weekday, they cannot be out in the streets past 11pm, and on weeknights past 12am.

That might be the case in some municipalities, but its not a federal law of the land.


I spoke to a cop and I can be arrested for holding her 'hostage' in my home!

Doi you honestly think that the police are going to bother arresting a parent who's grounded their kid?!!?! There is no way that they are going to do that. If you locked her up and never let her out, or your grounding her was borderline abusive, yeah, then there might be cause for the state to act, but I find it hard to beleive that in australia they arrest parents who don't let their 16 year olds do whatever they want.

At the moment she wants to go with a friend to Sydney(to get away from bad friends,so she says.

I presume that the school year is over in australia?



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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Omg helen, ok i repect your decions from a parents piont of view everything youve said would be the right thing to do but...

Being a teenager myself and putting myself your daughters position i can see why she is pissed of ,the first thing i might say is never parent other peoples children ,you said you checked your daighters bag fair eenough , but when you check her freinds bags its across teh line ...in a teenagers eyes anyways

Also, you said you never let your teen out while she was 13,14,15 etc.. ,now is it just me of is that just a little over protective , by the age of 14 i think teens can handle themsefls

You also said youve checked out your teens parents , big no no , i can see were your coming from making sure your daughter is in safe hands at her freinds house etc... , but in a teens eyes that is way past the line

Sorry iam not telling you how to parent your child , just thought id give a perspective from her piont of view



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Marto_Bagg
but when you check her freinds bags its across teh line ...in a teenagers eyes anyways

Any parent is going to expect another parent to do that. Further, a parent, with other kids in their household, has legal responsibilities over what those kids are doing.


Also, you said you never let your teen out while she was 13,14,15 etc.. ,now is it just me of is that just a little over protective , by the age of 14 i think teens can handle themsefls

She said that she did let her kid out, she just didn't let them do whatever they wanted.


You also said youve checked out your teens parents , big no no , i can see were your coming from making sure your daughter is in safe hands at her freinds house etc... , but in a teens eyes that is way past the line

?
Any parent is going to want to know who their kids are hanging out with, indeed, they should know that. I understand that you are trying to show what isn't cool from a kid's perspective, but, surely, you can see that those evaluations aren't sensible no?



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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just curious, in Australia, is the age of an adult 16, or is she still under your legal guardianship?


If its the later, you half full rights over her. Theres not a law in the world that prevents you from grounding her or not allowing her to go where you dont want her to.

Chalking up excuses about the law and theres nothing you can do is just another way to pass the blame off your shoulders and onto other people. Just like parents who throw the blame for bad behavior to ADHD or video games or television. Take responsibility, dont try to pass the buck.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan



Any parent is going to want to know who their kids are hanging out with, indeed, they should know that. I understand that you are trying to show what isn't cool from a kid's perspective, but, surely, you can see that those evaluations aren't sensible no?


O God yes i can see all the above posted actions takin by helen were needed and were the right thing to do , But if you want to piss of your child thats the best way to do it


[edit on 19-7-2006 by Marto_Bagg]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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Sorry to hear your having this much trouble, it sounds like a difficult situation and your legal system is not much help to you. Unfortunately, your not having a father figure around not only makes things tougher on you, but puts your daughter at greater risk, as she is going to be seeking male attention in anyway she can get it.

It sounds to me like the officer you spoke with was hinting around about something though. Perhaps something that he knows you will not accept hearing from anyone, but have to decide to do on your own. You know that if they get involved they do not just go and pick the kids up and put them somewhere safe for the night, that is not a law enforcement agent’s job. If they collect the kids, they are going to jail until they see a judge, with all that implies. I am pretty darn certain that the laws there are not THAT different from the ones here.

It sounds like you did a good job in delaying them that night, and it was a smart move on your part the way you handled it, with the possible exception of searching the other girls purse. So without telling you what I think you should do, I will tell you what I think I would do in similar circumstances.

IMHO, teens now a days have most of the advantage, even here in the US, the law is on their side in most disciplinary action. They are smarter then we were at their age, and are exposed to things we would have never thought of as teenagers in a million years, thanks to the internet. Add to this the normal teenager amount of rebellion and manipulation and you have a real problem on your hands. To make matters worse most have the same amount of spare time on their hands to get them into lots of trouble that we did.

So what areas do you still hold the high ground on: my guess is wisdom, and assets, which is all I can think of anyway. Fortunately for us, assets are a biggy. Now if you take the direct route and ground them from things that are your property, you’re just going to alienate them and they are going to resent you. Your better off if you use your wisdom to think of a more advantageous route, you’ll end up ahead. This is pretty much what you did the other night and it worked for you then and as an added bonus she gained a little bit of wisdom seeing the results of the situation I would hope. Getting them to be out on their own safely while learning from their friend’s stupidity is the best thing you can do in this brave new world. I hate to say it, but it’s a numbers game. They have to see enough of their friends screw up their lives that they decide to not go that route on their own, before they do something to mess up their own lives. This really only leaves a parent with two delaying options which I can see; the responsibility route, and the tough love route.

The responsibility route is to keep them so busy that they do not have time for their friends. Get them involved with things that interest them, make them get a job, insist that they attend to their school work, basically keep them so busy that they don’t have the time or the energy for going out at night. I would try this specifically if it were me. I would make them get a job, and tell them that they had to put a certain amount away for school. They would also have to pay me a certain amount for rent, but if they towed the line and made the grades I would save that rent and give it back to them when they enter collage so they could use it for a car, laptop, or whatever they felt they needed. In your specific case I would see if you can get her a job as a transporter or a nurse’s aid in the hospital, perhaps even the one her friend is at, she will see more there that will shock her straight then you can ever imagine. I would DEFFINATLY take her to see her friend in the hospital while she is in intensive care, if nothing else. She will walk away with the feeling that it could have been her, and that is exactly what you want at this point, her just hearing about it second hand will not ram it home.

If none of that works then you have to make the hard decision I believe that the officer was alluding to. You will have to hold the fact that she lives under your roof over her head. To do this though, you have to accept that if she so decides, she might take you up on it and leave. In the scenario above if this had been me and I chose this route, I would have asked her for her friends address. When she asked why I would have told her so I know where to send her belongings, because when she returned from her jaunt the locks would be changed. You darn well know her friend is going to say no-way to that as well, and it may work, but it may backfire on you. If things are getting to the point where police are having to get involved this is your last option to protect yourself before you end up with a criminal record yourself.

I would, and I do, have a copy of the state statutes for where I live, and I read them every year. A friend of mine with the police gives me his old copy when he gets his new one each time. I am not sure what they are called in your country, but a similar thing must exist and is public record. Basically these are the rules that the police go by since they do not have time to go to law school each year as the laws change. You should get a copy of these laws so you can protect yourself if in dealing with this situation in case you either start to overstep your bounds or she threatens you with the law. Nothing is going to shut up a cocky know-it-all teenager that is threatening to call the police because you’re detaining her then you telling her that, “under Statue 123.45678a I am lawfully detaining you as you have an illegal substance in your possession” or something along those lines…

See how fast they stop quoting the law, they start not wanting police involvement, and begin obeying when you shoot something like that back over their bow…

Anyway I hope some of that helps, I am sure a lot of it you have already thought of, but maybe it helps to hear it from someone else.


[edit on 7/19/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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Again thank you all....appreciate all opinions and comments here.

Apparently if a child under 17(checked the 'legal aid' laws) does not want to live at home for various reasons, then they don't have to.This cannot be forced on them, whether it be a parent or guardian,and 'Human Services ' can get involved without it being a police matter,and matters get taken to court.
I wont say what i think of 'Human Services'..........................
When the police were called, she said she did not get along with her father,various reasons....and she was given the ok to leave home and go to a friends or wherever she felt ok to be....police officer was helpful.

Things so far have been good,past few weeks she is ok, although we have our differences, she seems ok.
Nygdan


I presume that the school year is over in australia?

She does not go to school......expelled for talking back, and yelling at the principal.
School in Australia is all year long, with a longer break in Summer about 4 weeks...with breaks in between,being term breaks...

As far as I'm concerned Society(they know who they are) are to blame, and some parents could do or be better parents, but I believe the system works Against and not For the families today!
(I mean, this is a conspiracy site, and this is just another matter added ......N.W.O)

Again thank you all......
helen



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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all i can say is thank the lord it was only alcohol and not "ice" thats stuffs getting around in huge quantities and destroys your life i know people who were once friends and ive now writen them off due to that drug

and that law is there for a reason, there are SOME parents that are irrisponsable and treat there childeren as slaves so the children can legaly gte away from them when they are 16, the law is there to safeguard teens but some choose to abuse it

if you want to stop her from going out or disobeying you think creatively in punishing her, if she gose out when you tell her not to steal the battery from her cell phone and kepp the battery(if chordless) orhand set( if wall mounted) with you, this way there no contact with people if she disobeys...also it would pay to take the modem power cable so no IM programs

being a teenage girl shel want to do everything to keep these things so should start listening to you if she knows disobediance will detrumentaly affect her social life


just my 2 cents on the matter

[edit on 20-7-2006 by ivzm]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 11:52 AM
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Without having read the thread only the OP, ill tell a little bit about my self.

Im 19 years old. When i turned 15 i turned mad =)

When i was 16 my parents found weed in my room, which they flushed to which i demanded my money for my weed (Hell, illegal or not, its still mine). So i got my money and bought more weed.

Weed was my first crime.

Since then ive dont quite a few crimes: Grafitti, shop stealing, breaking an entrance and stealing several times, vandalized several things and a few other things.

Been sentenced to one week in prison.

WHen i was about 17 my parents a big brother found me in my room OD'ing on kodein. I was puking all over the place and was drove to the emergency room. I was fine.

So.. now im 19 still smoking, still writin', but what have i learned of my experiences in the past couple of years?

Ive become an adult.
Simple as that.

Much quicker than any of my more calm friends did i become more responsible and got a real take on life.

Im under education as a datatechnichian and im good at it, really good.
Ive got a rich social life and a rich spiritual life.

So what am i saying here?

Let teenagers be teenagers..
So what if you 16 year old daughter wants to drink? She will handle it if you trust her and if you ofcourse keep an eye out for abuse and such.

If you spoil her and keep indoors and away from real life she wont be able to handle real life, shell think that mom and pops will always be there to save her, she wont be able to get out of sticky situations.

[edit]
btw the only crimes im still guilty of is possession and use of cannabis and grafitti

[edit2]
My story is ofcourse NOT a complete succes story, and it dosent have to get this "wild" to get more responsible sooner.

And one really important thing i forgot, You have to be there for your kid, no matter what they do. If you help them, they will get through this, and come out more responsible than if you pampered them or just didnt were there for them.

[edit on 20/7/06 by Jugg]

[edit on 20/7/06 by Jugg]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Jeez Helen, you have a seriously troubled teen there. I'm going to say that your going to take matters in your own hands, because with this road, she's goingto wind up pregnant and on drugs (she may already be, or have been.)

If she wont cooperate, take her to some inner city places, show her where she is heading in life. If she gives you trouble, kick her out of the house, let her fend for herself untill she comes crawling back, thirsting for the warmth and luxury of home.

It sounds like Australia has some really crappy laws, so go aroundthem, save your daughter.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by helen670
Apparently if a child under 17(checked the 'legal aid' laws) does not want to live at home for various reasons, then they don't have to.This cannot be forced on them, whether it be a parent or guardian,


Helen, this is entirely different from grounding a child or not letting them out any particular night. If you kid wants to move out and is 17, then you can't stop them, and even then I suspect that they'll have to go through a legal procedure to get 'emancipated'.

If you are saying that your daughter is threatening to move out and live on the streets when you tell her 'you are not permited to go to that party tonight', then thats a different story, but if she is saying 'you can't tell me what to do, I am 17', then she is wrong.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 03:21 PM
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Helen,

First of all, many prayers for you and your daughter, as well as the other girls, especially the one that was injured.

My thought is...

You found the alcohol before they left your house right?

You didn't take it away from them and didn't call the other girls parents to inform them of the plans, right?

You didn't stop the girls from going out of your home with the alcohol?


I wonder if anyone, the girls parents or law enforcement will be coming after you, placing the blame on you for the girls drinking and getting injured?

Just a thought.

I wish you the best.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
Helen,

First of all, many prayers for you and your daughter, as well as the other girls, especially the one that was injured.

My thought is...

You found the alcohol before they left your house right?

You didn't take it away from them and didn't call the other girls parents to inform them of the plans, right?

You didn't stop the girls from going out of your home with the alcohol?


I wonder if anyone, the girls parents or law enforcement will be coming after you, placing the blame on you for the girls drinking and getting injured?

Just a thought.

I wish you the best.

Hi,elevatedone,
Yes of-course I did take the Alcohol from the girls!
Told them off a beauty and gave them a good lecture, and they did not say a word.
This incident happened before midnight, and they missed the train(last train 12.am) to go to the party,they ended going to a friends house instead.
My daughters friend's mother is not all there, she has caused 'bad trouble'(which i am unable to say here)and I refuse to speak with her because she has lied on a number of occasions concerning her daughters situation/this involved the police....

Thanks for your comments Elevatedone..

helen



posted on Jul, 26 2006 @ 07:45 AM
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Here's a tribute to nadia from friends who cared.......the young girl who died tragically...


RIP Nadia Abbas

RIP..Nadia Abbas...

helen



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