Super-Hacker Gary McKinnon Will Be Extradited To United States

Originally posted by thematrix
Imho, he doesn't deserve the jailtime he will probably recieve and he should even be commended for showing the world how badly these goverment computer systems are maintained and secured.

The people responsible for leaving these systems wide open are the ones that should be on trial for treason, sabotage (voluntarely or accidental doesn't matter in this case) and for being a threat to US national security.

[edit on 7/7/06 by thematrix]

I thought everyone agreed the UFO files and information should be made public.

Apparently even though the populace has no right to privacy anymore, a reflexive defense will be made for the puppet masters.

he'll be working for the US Military Elite Hacker Team from now on

again... you must understand that this is out of control. For instance, if YOU under inflate your tires and one pops due to that condition, should the company that made the tire be found at fault. ESPECIALLY since you have been warned due to revious lawsuits? Uhhh.. no. The person at fault is the person who did not spend the time make sure the the tire was "properly maintained"

Now on to the gov... since they PAY PEOPLE TO UPDATE THEIR NETWORK they should in no way play the victim here. After all, even if he does go to jail, that is not going to get the patches installed.

I feel the gov should pay for their own mistakes.... at least once in awhile. And the people that expose these mistakes should NOT be overemphasized to push the blame somewhere else.

A more proper metaphor would be that this man came and stabbed your tire. Then you sue the company for not making a tire strong enough to withstand a knife attack? The person who stabbed the tire committed a crime, in that case vandalism. This man trespassed into digital property belonging to a soveriegn nations defense agency, he then proceeed to access information which for all we know could also have included names and ocations for a number of our workers,

Again what do you say aobut me kicking in your door and stealing from you? Are you going to attack the developer of the lock and chain because it did not stand up to my foot power? Obviously since I committed the crime, you are going to want to come after me. There we have it its that simple.

Originally posted by Telos

Originally posted by EvilBat
I'll put a Free Gary right next to my Free Kevin

Mitnick is still in jail? I thought he was freed in 2005...

[edit on 8-7-2006 by Telos]

No just ment I'm lazy and haven't removed my sticker

People seem to continue to compare this to a normal everyday crime. This is not. It is a computer crime. A "cyber" act. It must be handled differently than normal physical crime.

If I were to hack a computer system within my own state, I am under the jurisdiction of the state and can be punished here in this state. IF I FLEE, I can be extradited back to this state, but only if I was in this state to begin with.

If I were to hack a computer system across state lines, without ever entering the state in which the target computer physically resides, I CAN NOT BE EXTRADITED. It becomes a Federal offense, handled by the FBI. I can be tried in the target state, but only upon FBI directive. Of course under special circumstances I could be initially extradited, but this case is not special.

If this suspect committed his deeds while physically on US soil, and then fled to the UK, he rightfully should be extradited back. This didn't happen. The crime was committed on UK soil, even if the victim computer system was not located there.

If we can go after hackers who have never even been in the US, who else can we go after? If someone in China commits a liable act, defamation of character for the President for instance, can this Chinese be extradited to the US to stand in civil court? NO. This is fundamentally no different.

>
I'm also to understand that there are several countries with warrants out for some of our CIA agents... hmmm...


[edit on 8-7-2006 by apc]

Gary exposed the FACT that our finest cyber security measures are in the hands of buffoons!

I brought up last week's House Appropriations Committee investigation of the VA laptop incident earlier in this thread to make a point.

The undersecretary of the VA was asked how many security vulnerabilities they have found
in their investigation.

The list was 9 pages long.

They were asking for $130 million dollars to go back an re-organize critical data and then
implement strong encryption of that data as deemed necessary.
This was just the beginning.
They were also calling for encryption of every single laptop in use by government employees.

I would argue that our government is guilty of criminal negligence.

They bought into the Microsoft is cheaper group think and now the real cost of their
foolishness is just being revealed.

The so called IT professionals who's only purpose was to protect critical data
should be fired on the spot.

Originally posted by apc
If we can go after hackers who have never even been in the US, who else can we go after? If someone in China commits a liable act, defamation of character for the President for instance, can this Chinese be extradited to the US to stand in civil court? NO. This is fundamentally no different.

Welcome to the 21st Century. Old modes of thinking cannot apply in the face of new methods of technology. The magic of the internet makes us re-examine yesterday's laws. If you harm a nation or a state, it matters not where you happened to be sitting when you did it. And it should not matter. The location of the victim should determine the location of the jurisdiction.

Old ways of thinking must yield to today's technology. Else we'd still be putting people in town square stocks for punishment.

Originally posted by DYepes
A more proper metaphor would be that this man came and stabbed your tire. Then you sue the company for not making a tire strong enough to withstand a knife attack? The person who stabbed the tire committed a crime, in that case vandalism. This man trespassed into digital property belonging to a soveriegn nations defense agency, he then proceeed to access information which for all we know could also have included names and ocations for a number of our workers,

Again what do you say aobut me kicking in your door and stealing from you? Are you going to attack the developer of the lock and chain because it did not stand up to my foot power? Obviously since I committed the crime, you are going to want to come after me. There we have it its that simple.

If i didn't lock the door, shame on me, However if i did... you would have another thing coming

I think that this is basically like a lot of other famous hacker cases.They tried pinning huge "damage" fees on Mitnick,MoD,Kevin Poulsen etc. when no actual damage was done.

In my opinion he should be applauded for his efforts at finding the truth instead of just talking about finding the truth.

Here are a couple of quotes I found interesting:

"All those conspiracy theorists seemed more concerned with believing it than proving it."

"It's as if investigative journalism has died," he replies. "That's all I was doing. The only difference between you and me was that you were invited."

The fact that some of you compare him to a thief breaking into a house etc. I find very ludicrous.It is well known in this day and age that ANY computer can be hacked,and attempts to do just that are going on 24/7,in any number of places around the world.

If the government was so worried about their,and our nation's security,then they would have made damn sure that their networks were secure.They didn't.So now they cry about it.

For those of you who saying hacking is illegal,he should do the time etc.Computer Crime is still a fairly new type of law.It has been cleared up quite a bit,but it is still somewhat muddled with arguments and inconsistancies because Computer Crime cannot be handled in the same way as physical crime.

In my opinion his intent wasn't to harm computers intentionally,or to sell government secrets.He simply wanted to know the truth......is that such a bad thing?

So scoobdude All i have to do is check your house everyday for the day you forget to lock the door, and then I can rob your house and you will never press charges? How nice of you, may I have your address

The taliban did not cooperate in giving up Bin-Laden when linked to 9/11, it would be such a shame for something like that to happen to Britain....

Pressing charges is fine, but compounding a sentence so that each instance is added up giving a total of 70 years in jail is preposterous.

I´ll be watching this case closely, along with the rest of the free world.

What if they ship him to Guantanamo Bay? Yikes.

I can only hope that Gary will be provided an excellent defense team who will turn this around
to expose the extent of fraud, incompetence and mismanagement of our nation's security.

Look each instance of a felony can be compounded by law. If I committed five sperate instances of trying to cash a bogus check, a minimum third degree felony which carries a maximum of 5 years each, they can by law add each 5 years and give me 25 years. I can only imagine how many felonies are involved in the crimes he commmitted. And they are easily can be second or first degree.

Compounding in this case is ridiculous. If you can scan 65,000 systems within 25 minutes and have a script poll some ports which would try autologins as he did this should not be counted as a separate event per system.

What if he (his script) entered 1,000 vunerable systems?

Sentence him to 5,000 years? Please.

Originally posted by rich23
As for those people spouting the tired cliche "if you can't do the time"... I'm sure they're always happy under authoritarian regimes like the US. Personally I prefer the kind of freedom we have in Europe.

The law's the law. If he broke the law, then he should suffer the penalties of doing so. I find it oddly puzzling that so many people seem so eager to support a criminal doing a criminal act. It should be stated that while I don't believe he's guilty of all of the charges laid against him, he is at least guilty of those that he freely admitted to.

Now I'm no attorney, but if a client admits guilt to committing a crime, there's not much that can be done to help him, right? I wish someone could explain to me why there's this huge rally of support to keep this man out of jail for crimes which he admitted to having committed. If he had proclaimed innocence, then yes, I could see this rally being a good idea, but he admitted to doing said acts. He should suffer the consequences for his actions.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
The law's the law.

Easy for you to say. I think the new law which is tough on "cyber crimes" is bogus and complete overkill. Now if Gary was trying to steal money or destroy stuff on purpose this would be a whole other matter.

This law you are talking about was not written for people like Gary, and should be revised to separate the malicious from the curious.

Borg,

I have to kind of agree with Hard to get.

The laws were created for a different kind of hacker. Not some idiot that was just meddling.

Semper

Cyber crimes will be severely dealt with due to society's increasing reliance on the technology just to function. A good hacker terrorist could literally bring the economy to a standstill.

The government denies it has UFO secrets, yet when a hacker gets into those files, they're willing to convict for something that doesn't officially exist.

He didn't get much ground-breaking information, but that not the point. They want to make an example of him. They can have secrets, you can't.

Since the private sector has taken over much of the cyber network eliminating constitutional obstacles, and every American is already tagged with a code of one sort or another - maintaining elite power over the information is crucial to the system.

Why should one group have private information on UFO's. Why should one person who decided by 'accident' to look into those files be treated like the criminal. Who is really the criminal here.

Just a small list of the private contractors who know more about you than you do about them:
Abacus Direct Corp., AbiliTec, Accenture, Accurint, Acxiom, ADVO system Inc., Air IQ, American Data Resources, American Teleservices Association, Applied Digital Solutions, Auto Track, Aviation Security,
Aware Inc., Behaviour Track, BiLo Markets, Bio-Key International, Biometrica, Biometric Access Corporation, Biometric Consortium, Bio-Pay, Bode Technology Group, Booz Allen Hamilton Inc., BTi Employee Screening Services, CACI Dynamic Solutions, Choicepoint, Cisco Systems, Civitas Group, COINTELPRO, Comdex, Comverse Technology, CONUS Intelligence Operations, CRONUS, Customer Development Corporation, Customer Relationship Management, CVS, DATA Intel Mart, Data Quicklist Service, DATEQ, DBT Online, Demographics Company, Denver Copwatch, Direct Marketing Association, Docusearch Inc., eData.com, eDirect, Elensys, Entity Resolution, Equifax, Experian, Experian Marketing Service, EZ Pass System, Fair Issac and Company, Financial Services Roundtable, FinCEN, Gartner Inc., Genisys, Genoa Project, GRID Computing, Groove Networks, Hicks & Associates Inc., HNC Software, IBM Corporation, IBM Tivoli Systems, Identix, ImageData, iMap Data, InfoBase Enhancement, InfoBase Profiler System, InfoBase Telesource, Infoglide Software Corporation, In-Q-Tel, In-Spire, Intel, Intelligence Community Meta-Data Working Group, Intellitag, Internal Biometrics Industry Association, I Rent America, Iridian Technologies, I.R.S.C. Inc., Jetblue, JMP Consulting, Law Enforcement Information Network, LexisNexis, Lockheed Martin Corporation, Market Intelligence Group, Metro Card, Metro Risk, Mitre Corporation, Naviant, OnStar, OPnet, Orion Scientific Solutions, Phone Data Express, Partners Marketing, Personicx, Pinkertons, Precision Response Corporation, PROPS, P-Trak, Quantum Leap, QVC, R.L. Polk company, Rasky/Baerlin Group, Raytheon Communications Infrared, Raytheon Corporation, Reed Elsevier Group, Retail Credit Company, Reuben H Donnelly Corporation, Risk-Wise, Rodale Company, Sabre Company, SafeTzone System, SAIC, SAMSys Technologies, Searchspace, Security Focus.com, Seisint Inc, Soluciones Mercadologicas en Bases de Datos, Sun Microsystems, Synovate, Systems Research and Development Company, Target Corporation, Targus Information Corporation, TCP/IP, Templar Corporation, TowerGroup, TransCore, Triligeant Corporation, TrueID Technology, UBS, ULTRA Customer Intelligence Analytics, VeriChip System, Verint Systems, Viisage, Visionics Corporation, VitalChek Network, WiFi,

Some relative Terms:
Artificial Intelligence Software, Background Screening, Behavioural Profiling, Biometric Identifiers - Face Recognition Systems - Fingerprints - Iris Scanners - Skin Prints - Voice Analyzers, Brain Scanning Proposal, Carnivore (DCS1000), CLUE (Comprehensive loss underwriting exchange system), NORA -Non Obvious Relationship Awareness, Geospatial visualization, Global Positioning System, Grid computing, DARPA-HSARPA (Homeland Security Advanced Research Projects Agency), Information Exploitation Initiative, JRIES (Joint Regional Information Exchange System), Language Analysis Systems, Matrix (Multi State Anti-Terrorism Information Exchange), HOle, NIMD (Novel Intelligence from Massive Data), RFID (Radio Frequency Identification), Security Industrial Complex

They don't need your SSN.

Jsobekcy says:
Welcome to the 21st Century. Old modes of thinking cannot apply in the face of new methods of technology. The magic of the internet makes us re-examine yesterday's laws. If you harm a nation or a state, it matters not where you happened to be sitting when you did it. And it should not matter. The location of the victim should determine the location of the jurisdiction.

Extradition is a matter a law not philosphy. You can argue in favor of extradition until your eyeballs pop. Try showing us the law that allows extradition in this case and maybe you'll gain some credibility. That Dubya and Tony Blair are buds doesn't cut it.

I agree with those who say Gary McKinnon performed a service rather than a crime. The door was wide open with a tantalizing invitation and sign pointing "this way to good stuff" guiding the way in, nothwithstanding all the government incompentency apologists on this forum.

Thank you Gary for exposing the pathetic state of security in these US government data systems. All you government bootlickers should be thankful that this was exposed by someone like McKinnon rather than a more malicious type who might have gone in with the intent to cause serious damage. The only thing Mckinnon apparently damaged was the unexposed state of incompetence of those handling these supposedly secure systems.

[edit on 7/8/2006 by dubiousone]