''Every time I visits my native Zimbabwe, there seem to be more Chinese.''

China cultivates Africa (Seattle Times)

I actually posted the hereunder stated text in another thread, but I think it actually needs an independent thread.

Today I was reading some new articles about the situation and its developments. Besides of the example I took, China currently applies its strategy on other African countries as well, such as: Zambia, Nigeria (which has one of world's largest oil reserves), Zimbabwe, Egypt, Sudan and many more. Apart from the few complaining about the long working weeks, most are quite or very happy, as China brings jobs, relatively cheap Chinese consumer products, and wealth to the countries.

The western companies slowly lose influence in Africa, and (Western) investment is being replaced by Chinese. The danger of this - besides the economic benefits for China - is that China builds both economic and social relationships with the African countries.

In contrast to the Western countries, China really brings wealth to the countries, which makes the African continent less dependent of the Western world, but the Western world will in contrast become even more dependant on the unstable Middle-East.

China's world domination and race towards the first place as super power accelerate in this way. What worries me, is the speed at which China expands. It seems to become every day more powerful, and we Westerners seem to lose power.

Especially as China's influence on the local governments (and thus ideologies) becomes bigger. I 've no intentions to compare China with Nazi Germany, but in times of crisis (compared to Africa's poverty) someone who promises to bring wealth (and actually does) is liked among the people, which history has proven might be dangerous.

Are the developments really dangerous, or is my fear ungrounded?

Originally posted by xpert11
How exactly would foreign ownership of the public work project benfit the local population ?

It would.

Lately, I watched a documentary on the Dutch television about Chinese 'intervention' in Africa. To keep the Chinese economic machine running large amounts of oil and other fossil fuels are necessary. 15 years ago, China was able to fulfill it's demand purely by domestic resources. Since the economy started to develop in such a tempo, the demand exceeded domestic supply.

One option is to purchase expensive fossil fuels from the Middle East producers, such as S.A., but China developed another strategy to fulfill its hunger for fossil fuels: Africa.

China has been lobbying with government of several African countries for quite some time now. Let's take Angola as example.
Angola, a country destroyed by civil wars, has large oil and diamant reserves, and is furthermore the 2nd largest supplier of the African continent. Poor governance and corruption made it impossible for Angola to build up a stable economy.

In 2004, Angola become the world's third largest supplier of crude oil for China (after S.A; Iran). Oil producing companies expect there are many unexplored oil fields in Angola, which makes it a great opportunity to invest in, and thus take the benefits out of it.

In exchange for fossil fuels, China invests large amounts in the Angolan economy, military, infrastructure, etc, by giving loans at a relatively low interest rate.

As well as indirectly (by the supply/export of fossil fuels) the Chinese economy also benefits directly. Chinese construction companies have been active in many infrastructure projects, such as building schools, bridges, roads, railways, low cost housing projects etc. After years of civil war, the country's once destroyed main railroad (Benguela railroad) has been repaired and is in use again. The railroad was rehabilitated by Chinese companies at a contract value of $300-500 million. Soon, Chinese companies will also start the construction of oil refineries. Several thousands of Chinese officials are expected to work in Angola, which automatically increases the Chinese influence and power in Angola, of which both parties benefit.

An additional benefit is that the supply of fossil fuels is not only based on pure business relations, but also on social relations, which is a great fundament in times of war, (in contrast to most western countries, that are dependant of the unstable Middle-East). Besides, this Chinese strategy decreases the level of Western influence in the African countries, a short-term is the example of Portuguese companies that untill recently did most of the construction works in its former colony, Angola, but now are replaced by Chinese companies.

If China applies this strategy on other third world countries, such as Nigeria, it could become a pretty dangerous situation for the Western world. Not in terms of military, but in terms of economy, as it slowly cuts off the third world oil supplies to the western world in this way.






[edit on 7-7-2006 by Mdv2]

Good luck to the Chinese.
They may have a grand vision of what they can accomplish but they may find themselves deploying their military to Africa in the future to protect their investments.

Africa isn't a very stable place to do business.

the only reason whites failed is because they decided to screw over the native population tremendously. if the chinese can avoid the same mistake, i see no reason why they can't be succesful.

This is China's "grand scheme of things". They are very smart and advancing very nicely. You have to admire them of course. But to Europe, US, Japan, they are the epitome of an enemy. And a threat to their economic...rule. Of course it will take a while before China hawks up enough influence and becoming stable to combat the US mega corporations which has infiltrated mostly everywhere. There is a song by Rammstein "Amerika" which conveys the message that American culture is everywhere all over the world. From movies, to food, to dress, to news, to music, etc. Which is very true. And that is something China must battle. Not to mention, Africa is not a stable place at all.

I see this as a good thing. If China is investing in African nations and coopertating with the governments there to find mutally beneficial arrangements then im all for it.

The Western model for dealing with Africa is completely barbarous in comparison. The Western way of dealing with Africa has been to refuse to accept their goods, watch them start to starve, lend them emergency loans at interest rates they know they cannot repay, agree to wipe off debt on the condition they privatise their state owned utilities, buy up the utilities at rock-bottom prices and then raise prices for basic utilities to make a steady stream of income. It's a completely parasitic methodology and was the center of my opposition to the whole Live8 phenomenon.

[edit on 14/7/06 by subz]

February saw a sharp 220,000 b/d increase in imports from Angola to average 582,000 b/d. As a result Angola moved from the main supplier of China with 19% of total crude oil imports followed by Saudi Arabia with 18%, Iran with 11% and Oman and Russia with 9% each. Imports from Iran — the main supplier in January — fell by 90,000 b/d. The strong growth in Chinese imports from Angola corresponds to the need to comply with product specifications as refining capacity for processing sour crude appears to be insufficient. In addition, lower freight rates and improved arbitrage opportunities contributed to the surge in crude imports from West Africa.

Source

The Chinese way of doing business is greatly developing African economies. Western companies did also invest large amounts into African economies, without a positive outcome. China is creating alliances, which might be very helpful in future conflicts, and also ensuring the supply of raw materials, including crude oil.

China becoming Egypt’s biggest trading partner

By Mure Dickie in Beijing

Published: September 7 2006 01:53 | Last updated: September 7 2006 01:53

China will surpass the US as Egypt’s biggest individual trading partner within eight years, and Beijing is rapidly also becoming a key source of investment and technology, according to Rachid Mohamed Rachid, Egypt’s minister of trade and industry.

China was beginning to replace some US and Europe suppliers not just in consumer products but also capital goods ranging up to turn-key industrial projects, said Mr Rachid.

Financial Times

What is going on? China is expanding it's business to become less dependent on the US as main customer of cheap Chinese products. Rapidly and unnoticedly, they are taking over and developing the African market, securing crude oil supplies and building up strategic alliances. By ensuring that locals actually benefit of the Chinese system, China can more or less do what they want.

Edit: source

[edit on 30-9-2006 by Mdv2]

Originally posted by karby
the only reason whites failed is because they decided to screw over the native population tremendously. if the chinese can avoid the same mistake, i see no reason why they can't be succesful.

The Chinese seem to be as bad or worse than the western colonialists.

Times Online

In Nigeria, a Chinese-language newspaper now serves 50,000 immigrants. At no stage in Britain’s colonisation of Nigeria did the British numbers reach such a figure. As one opposition figure in Zimbabwe observed: “If the British were our masters yesterday, the Chinese have come and taken their place.”

--snip--

The Chinese are generally viewed as loud, uncouth, prone to spitting and openly derogatory towards Africans. Worse, the copper mines they have opened up in Zambia and Zimbabwe are renowned for low wages, ferocious labour discipline and a sky-high accident rate. “That’s how they run things at home, after all — and on top of that, they despise blacks,” said one Zimbabwean engineer. ”

--snip--

“The Chinese are getting away with claiming that they aren’t like the other colonialists, but Africans aren’t fools,” a South African economist commented. “The Chinese are far more ruthless than the Brits ever were.”

[edit on 5-10-2006 by AceOfBase]

Exactly AceOfBase, people on here are so black and white. The US and Europe doing this, is the epitome of evil. Yet China? OH they are helping the native populations.

Give me a break.

whoa. i said "if". for two small letters, it's a very big word.
and yeah, i know how the chinese treat the native black population. i've been there. they despise them for no reason other than their skin color--like every other race on the face of this earth towards black people.

i read the article, and it seems that one of the reasons the chinese are getting away with the things that they are is because of foolish corrupt leaders like Mugabe.

edit: fixed spelling.

[edit on 6-10-2006 by karby]

Originally posted by karby
. i've been there. they despise them for no reason other than their skin color--like every other race on the face of this earth towards black people.
[edit on 6-10-2006 by karby]

I smell bull#, care to back that up?

The African contient have lived under europeon domination for the past 400 years, look where that had gotten them. Isn't it only natural that they should seek someother partner? China's influence into Africa have only started to jump during the 2002 renewed growth rate in the Chinese economy. Give them some time. How can you judge a people's progress after only two years in Nigeria? Isn't that called....oh....prejudice? Besides, Nigeria's economy is currently growing at 6.1% according to the American Dod, thats pretty good by my book..... Unemployment have also gone down, In 2005 it was 2.9%.

The Chinese are generally viewed as loud, uncouth, prone to spitting and openly derogatory towards Africans.

Okay, I understand that there might be support to back up the derogatory claim, but the "loud, uncouth, and prone to spitting" part is obveiously an attempt at explotiing a sterotype to paint a poor image of the Chinese.

The chinese economic policies have proven to work. Simply look at the growth rate of the Chinese economy for the past 20 years. During the 1970s, the condition of the chinese economy was very similar to that of many African nations today. Isn't it obveious why many African politicans are lobbying towards chinese influence and knowledge rather than western style?


Besides, if you look at African investments, China is one of the only nation that is still pouring money into Africa in stead to taking their investments out......

Originally posted by xihaoli321456

Originally posted by karby
. i've been there. they despise them for no reason other than their skin color--like every other race on the face of this earth towards black people.
[edit on 6-10-2006 by karby]

I smell bull#, care to back that up?

yes. both of my parents are from Nigeria. my dad's home town of Owerri has seen an influx of Chinese businessmen particularly in the oil sector. the way these people treat their employees is appaling. they DO spit ,yell and laugh at the local black population, I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN. they tried it with my dad, until they figured out that he wasn't one of their employees. then they apologized.
xihaoli, it's quite obvious that you took offense to what i wrote, and for that i apologize. but i personally feel skeptical of that any country or nation trying to do business with the African peole. throughout history, there has not been one foreign nation/country/people who came to Africa without the intent of screwing the native population over, and the Chinese are no different. Look, for instance, at the Chinese involvment with what's going on in Sudan:

www.washingtonpost.com...

it's chinese made weapons that's being given to the muslim government in order to be used to slaughter the native black population, all for the sake of oil.

if the Chinese are so "good" for Africa, why are they assisting the arabs in the genocide of it's people?
because of money, riches, oil and whatnot. that's really all the African land is to other peoples besides native Africans.

my origninal statement was that if the Chinese can avoid the same mistake that the whites made, then in my view, there is no reason they couldn't be successful, and i stand by that statement. but from the looks of what's going on, and based on what they're doing to the native people there, it looks like they can't avoid the mistake. the greed there is just too much. Just like the Europeans, the Chinese put on the mask of 'friend' and, just like the Eorupeans, the Chinese are going to make every attempt to screw Africans over. and just like the Europeans, the Chinese are going to use skin pigmentation as a basis of their racism. it will never end.

I've also seen black people benefitting of the Chinese, since they create jobs and social services. I'll never forgot an interview with locals in Angola whom hadn't seen their family living in the other side of the country for years, as the only way to get their was by train, but the rail road had been destroyed during the civil war. The Chinese repaired it.

Of course the Chinese have only one purpose: benefiting from Africa's resources and cheap labor. I am not trying to deny it, but I neither am going to say they are as cruel as we Westerners were until recently.



[edit on 9-10-2006 by Mdv2]

they are doing good things, but that doesn't mean i trust their motives.
afterall, Europeans came to Africa doing good things too, and look how well that turned out.

Being rude and spitting at Africans is obviously not acceptable behaviour. Even so, I think the Chinese have a long way to go before they match some of the horrors perpetrated by white people in Africa. Amputating natives' hands if they didn't meet their rubber quotas, for instance. And then, of course, there's the whole issue of slavery.

I'm not saying this to provoke a quarrel or suggest that Chinese people are any better than whites (no racial group is better or worse than any other racial group). I'm simply responding to people who say that Chinese support for African nations threatens Western interests and is therefore a bad thing and should be prevented if possible. What kind of adverserial nonsense is that?

If the West is concerned that the Chinese are becoming better loved in Africa than they, maybe they should try to match, or surpass, what the Chinese are offering. After all, two can play at the same game. Personally, I'd love to see China and the West competing peacefully with one another over Africa; such competition would be of great benefit to the African people, who deserve a break.

Originally posted by Mdv2
I've also seen black people benefitting of the Chinese, since they create jobs and social services. I'll never forgot an interview with locals in Angola whom hadn't seen their family living in the other side of the country for years, as the only way to get their was by train, but the rail road had been destroyed during the civil war. The Chinese repaired it.

The railroad was probably built by the Portuguese in the first place.
The Portuguese also built roads, hydroelectric dams and other infrastructure.

The British were building Universities in Africa as far back as the early 1800s. Fourah Bay College in 1827 (Siera leone) and South African College in 1829 (South Africa).

You can't look at these little projects that the Chinese are doing now and say that they are doing something different than they Europeans.

The Europeans are still helping out with greater levels of aid than the Chinese are giving.
EU Donor Atlas (PDF)

BEIJING, Nov 4 (Reuters) - China will provide $5 billion in loans and credits to Africa over the coming three years and double aid to the backward but resource rich continent by 2009, China's President Hu Jintao said on Saturday.

Hu told delegates from more than 40 African nations who gathered in Beijing that China would provide $3 billion in preferential loans and $2 billion in preferential buyer's credits to Africa.

"Our meeting today will go down in history," Hu told the China-Africa Summit.

China also would double its 2006 assistance to Africa by 2009 in an effort to forge a new type of strategic partnership and strengthen cooperation in more areas and at a higher level, Hu said.

Source

And the story continues...

Why do people seem surprised by this development?. One fact that gets underplayed is that China understands Africa. Think of this as the storeman (china) and the consumer (africa), no one wants these strings attached to things they buy like at another store (west) so they choose to buy from the chinese.

China swaggers into Europe's 'back yard'

PARIS - The new African-Chinese economic and diplomatic partnership, manifested in the pact signed by China and 48 African countries in Beijing this month, is unsettling European leaders and analysts, who continue to see Africa as Europe's back yard.

French analysts and politicians have been calling attention to China's growing presence in Africa for many months. In January, Jean-Pierre Tuquoi, diplomatic correspondent for the French daily newspaper Le Monde, said the Chinese expansion in Africa is

chinawhite, if you don't mind my asking, could you please list the source article of your quote? it looks like an interesting read...

www.atimes.com...