We ARE winning the war on terrorism!

Originally posted by KhieuSamphan

Hi Doc, good post.

I would argue, however, that the struggle in Northern Ireland is, in fact, being won by the terrorists, if you want to put it in a win-lose context. Interestingly, when we speak of Irish terrorists here, I am presuming most mean Irish Catholic terrorists even though, I imagine, there are many in Ireland who would deem the 'Brits' and their Nationalist supporters to be the real terrorists on the Ulster stage.

It seems that the current situation in Northern Ireland is leading towards a, hopefully, relatively low key withdrawl, and a transfer of power that does not involve too much loss of face to the British. There is no victorious sense of 'job done' from the British side where Ulster is concerned.

This has been brought about, firstly, by the realisation that the British army were unable to engae the IRA on their own terms. Due to political and the obvious PR problems, the British army could not employ all the tools they believed neccesary to defeat the IRA. As a result, the 'provos' were able to sustain the 'war' indefinitely.

This, coupled with the facts that Sinn Fein have been able to evolve their political strategies and the inevitable demographic change towards a Catholic majority, has made it extremely difficult for Britain to justify a continuation of the conflict.

Basically, the IRA stalemated the British and have used politics and an increasingly sympathetic electorate to instigate the beginnings of a process that could very well lead to the fulfillment of their demands.

I suppose one could say that it was indeed a 'hearts and minds' strategy that eventually lead to cessation of large scale terrorist action in NI, only it was the 'bad guys'' strategy that appears to be the prevalent one.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

I would love to say good post, but it�s not really lol

THE IRA and republican movement within Northern Ireland wanted/want an ALL Ireland, this means Control of Northern Ireland from The Irish republic (southern Ireland, Dublin) they are currently pushing for and not achieving control from Northern Ireland, Stormont (Within the Northern Ireland Assembly ) the IRA-Sinn F�in lost the war in Northern Ireland and if you came to Northern Ireland and talked to people on the streets you would see that they (Sinn F�in-IRA) settled for second best on 70% of the burning issues and 100% on their overriding issue, they want an all Ireland, this by law can now never happen.

Really shocked to hear this kind of post come from a Scottish person (all be it from a Scottish catholic) but all the same shocked and surprised that you�re not an American with such words.

Originally posted by Flyer
Rubbish, its a war you cannot win, there will always be another terrorist attack. The only way to win is to convince them not to attack any more.

And to achieve that you goto stop pissing of everyone around the globe.
The US made Iran into the US hating place it is now by protecting and funding Saddam when Iran and Iraq were at war.
The US made Saddam their enemy by giving him all sorts of power and then attacking him when he used that power for his own goals instead of the goals dictated to him by the US (which was bug Iran)
The US made Osama and Al-Quada their enemy by first giving them all sorts of power, money and training to fight the russians and then stabbing him in the back.

The US is now going a step further by alienating and bullying its allies and friends all around the world making even more enemies then they ever had before.

Every intervention like Iraq the US undertakes with their clear agenda of control over resources and a visible selection of purely geostrategical targets brings even more people to a point of desperation where their only resolve will be violence in guerilla and terrorst styles.

Meanwhile, the US Military Industrial complex makes more and more money, the US people loose more and more husbands, mothers, sons and daughters, the US people become more and more blind with hatred towards everyone else on the planet and allow for the goverment which is run by the very same people that have the big interests in that Military Industrial complex to goto war even more.

This situation will escalate untill a point where the rest of the world unites and the US turns into the new common enemy like Nazi Germany was, unless the people of the US finaly open their eyes and see that their wonderfull country with its fantastic idea's and value's is being raped and pilaged by a select group of powerbrokers and greedy war mongers.

Discontent will turn into hatred, hatred will turn into violence and violence will turn into war.

[edit on 9/7/06 by thematrix]

Originally posted by Durden
The only victory I'll grant the Bush Admininstration here is how they've so successfully made their citizens believe a war like that to be completely rational.

Such a ridiculous notion should really make you wonder what the other hand is doing...

As a great philospher Wyclef Jean said, "BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING"

Originally posted by undecided2
I realize many of you are doubters out there, but I honestly believe we are winning. The latest victory can be seen in the thwarted NYC tunnel bombing plot.

abcnews.go.com...

There have been several plots discovered and stopped since 9/11. I think the Bush administration deserves some credit here. I know many of you will say this is how they planned it (9/11 conspiracy, Iraq war, etc.), but there will always be those who think everything that happens is due to some shady conspiracy.

This is what I hate the advertising about this. Where is the document where it says we have declared a war on "terror"? You know what, Undecided? you Can't find it. And you know why there isn't a war? Because it's a bumper sticker for politicians Whether it's Democrat or Republican it's a bumpersticker for them to use at their disposal. And get people such as yourself to repeat talking points ad nauseam ex "We are winning the war on terror" or if you disagree "We need to do more to win the war on terror"

In fact Undecided let's take it to another level. Where is the document that says we have declared war on Iraq? You will not find it. So that's why this is not a war but a occupation and even if it was a war in the early stages it was won when Saddam was removed. Now we are just too stubborn to leave pretending like we have a obligation and our divine right to stay there losing the perception and our integrity and respect in the process. Which suits Asia and Europe just fine

But when you declare a war on terror and there is no legal procedure or battlelines that means it's a imperial business on a scale we have never seen.

Watch "Why we fight" and "power of Nightmares" sometime soon and then watch "Lord of War"


It gets beyond the talking points of politicians and pundits and gets to the heart of the matter. Where do the benefits go? And what's good for the business of war and what's bad for the business of war.

Once you reveal the root of the anger of anyone opposing this war it goes back to Blood Money. Plain and simple...
And what gets me is there is no accountability for any of this corruption in "War on Terror" Anytime you bring this issue up? Duck and dodge and parse words and avoid the central issue. WHO is making the money at this and who decides when enough is enough of blood profit?


The only credit this administration deserves is to being able to keep the P.R. from not collapsing on this stupid premise for a perpetual business of terror. But mark my words this is going to be remembered the biggest blunder and psy ops operation that any country in the history of the world has orchestrated.


And no matter any op ed piece or book tries to dictate to the public. The truth is Blood Profits continue this war.

Originally posted by DYepes
Right.... anyways I believe, and so do many others that a good education is the foundation of any stable society. We need to rain down an endless barage of educational texts upon known insurgent regions and give our missles some time off.

You might want to worry about education over here. Do you have any idea how many education programs and funds have been cut under this administration?

More than any administration. The idea is diversion to get the citizen to think about other issues than what is happening here. Now Im not saying not to help out Im saying enough of the rhetoric about how this society is so much primitive and tribal than ours. Because before you know it we are going to be reduced to that level step by step by listening to Middle East talking points of the day regarding "Retransformation" and "Restructuring"


If ATS did a cross country tour of the schools in AMERICA that aren't being focused on you wouldn't believe what is happening day by day.


Not just Grade Schools,High Schools and College Universities. I am more concerned with that then the Middle East getting Higher Learning.

My cousin in Jersey has his kids in private schools because he said public education is like 2nd and in some cases 3rd rate in the US. Education needs to be taken as one of the strengths the west has. I think americas is like 20 something on the list for education .

I finished graduate school in Communication in the early 90s during GHWB's first term. At NO TIME did the faculty ever bring up the gagging of the press, the consolidation of the media, the secrecy inherent in NSA programs, the inaccountability of the Executive branch for Executive Orders and black ops; nor the domination of our Congress by under-handed, back-room strategies (all of which were and are very salient to my graduate degree itself).

And now we're all watching these elements come together in a war on terrorism which is actually a war on the people by terrorist regimes that appear to be bent on destroying human and civil rights worldwide.

And so I called the former Chairman of my graduate committee, my favorite professor Doctor B, and I asked him--

"What am I supposed to think now, Doctor B? We were never prepared for this situation; we were told and taught that there is and always has been Freedom of the Press and Free Speech. What happened?"

And what he said was, "I dunno."

Apparently he didn't know either, that we've been hoodwinked for a hundred years, since the 14th amendment instituted corporate personhood for the upper classes; admiralty law for the under-classes, along with at-will employment, the federal reserve system and the IRS, to force every one of us in the lower strata into fiduciary slavery.

Doctor B didn't know what happened, and he still doesn't know. But he's still teaching graduate and undergraduate Journalism, group communication, rhetoric and debate. Amazing.

So much for our education system at the post-secondary level in a state university.





[edit on 9-7-2006 by joshai2334]

Yet again a thread about the WoT has degenerated into a discussion about a parochial US issue - in this case the US education system.

Quite what someone's cousin's kids' choice of educational establishment or the opinion of some professor initial from initial university / college / 'special' school (??) has to do with this topic I don't know.

Please can't we FOR ONCE discus the topic without discussing micro issues?


Oh and why hasn't this been moved to 'politics of war' like all the other posts that end up like this?
Could it, possibly, be that the thread is American-centric? - surely not?

Originally posted by Strangerous
Yet again a thread about the WoT has degenerated into a discussion about a parochial US issue - in this case the US education system.

But isn't that where tyranny begins--in the stupefying and dumbing-down of the people?

If people weren't distracted by propaganda; if they knew how to validate evidence; if causes-and-effects were apparent because evidence had been left in place; if keeping secrets weren't the end all and be all of Federal service--

maybe Americans would KNOW something besides what's on Real TV tonight.

Naturally, we must delve into why people are so distracted, pre-occupied and disinterested.

How are things better where you are?

"But isn't that where tyranny begins--in the stupefying and dumbing-down of the people?

If people weren't distracted by propaganda; if they knew how to validate evidence; if causes-and-effects were apparent because evidence had been left in place; if keeping secrets weren't the end all and be all of Federal service--

maybe Americans would KNOW something besides what's on Real TV tonight."

I agree I heard in a study done that over half the American youth think the american dream is to be famous. Everyone wants their cars pimped, to hang out at the clubs with celebs etc. This is dangerous for the countries future and being in a country that heavily relies on american capitol through trades I do not think this issue should be taken lightly.

Terrorists are getting more confident due to srtupid mistakes made by Bush administration.

Plots to bomb the New York tunnel, and also the Sears Tower in Chinago, shows that US policy is only creating more terror threat.


We often hear that war on terror is war against extremist ideology. The President says that its the extremist ideas that he is fighting.

And guess what?

www.cbsnews.com...


Experts all agree that US is losing the war on terror.

www.commondreams.org...

www.independent.org...

web0.foreignpolicy.com...

www.islamonline.net...

www.kentucky.com...

www.antiwar.com...

www.commondreams.org...

newsbusters.org...

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Terrorists are getting more confident due to srtupid mistakes made by Bush administration.

Plots to bomb the New York tunnel, and also the Sears Tower in Chinago, shows that US policy is only creating more terror threat.


We often hear that war on terror is war against extremist ideology. The President says that its the extremist ideas that he is fighting.

And guess what?

www.cbsnews.com...

The notion that a plot to attack U.S. within doesn't conclude that we are losing ideas that simply. You could say that a plan was disrupted to attack an American school by Al Qaeda means that we are losing? It ain't that simple.

www.cbsnews.com...

And heres something to put from the article you chose.

"The strategy must do a great deal more to reduce the lure of the extremist ideology by standing with those moderate Muslims advocating peaceful change, freedom and tolerance," he said.

Rumsfeld noted that among the more than 300 war college students in his audience were an Afghan military officer and one from Iraq.

Also, as of this time, I don't see over a billion Muslims rushing to join Al Qaeda's ideology. They seem to be more caring about themselves and their needs and wants then about Jihad. Seems to me capitalism is winning.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Uhmmmm....Sorry...NO.

You kill one cocoroach and 1,000 come to the funeral. :shk:

This is a war without end.

it is a un winnable war
i wonder what it's like without war






signature: cody900

(mod edit to correct post format)

[edit on 11-7-2006 by pantha]

No you cannot ever win the war on terrorism. To do so you would have to halt human reproduction and then kill of the rest of the living wackos and control freaks.

War on Terror is an unwinnable war. You may however being educating the muslim populations with something besides religious dogma and you might significantly reduce those willing to conduct terrorist attacks.

I single out the muslim community only because right now that is the culture that is doing most of the terrorism in todays world against the western civilized nations. Yes in good part the muslim world is uncivilized but not all by far.

In the past many, many other cultures and races have done the same thing (terrorism) and usually in the name of invisible, unacting gods.

The problem is simply the type of education people get.

There will ALWAYS be some wackos and control freaks born to humanity though so you cannot ever eliminate terroism completely.

X

Since the Administration has nothing but contempt for international law, Geneva conventions and Constitutional law, what is apparent to me is that there is a CABAL within the State whose purpose is to take this nation DOWN.

Nothing less.

They took the USSR down; they're taking the USSA down.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by joshai2334
Since the Administration has nothing but contempt for international law, Geneva conventions and Constitutional law, what is apparent to me is that there is a CABAL within the State whose purpose is to take this nation DOWN.

Nothing less.

They took the USSR down; they're taking the USSA down.

Simple as that.

Who do you mean by they? Can you be more specific?

This is supposed to be a thread about the war on terror, lets stop drifitng off into who's a fascist and who's a peacnik. Political discussions are more than welcome on PTS.

never mind! I should know better than to post oversimplifications here by now.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by whaaa]

Originally posted by Flyer
All it takes is a handful of terrorists who still believe in their ideals and they have the ability to kill thousands.

And so, we should not break up their networks or invade the countries that are enabling funding and supporting them????

WWII didn't destroy all nazi and nazi-esque parties in every country, any more than the cold war victory over the soviet union meant that there was never going to be another communist rebellion or a communist country. But it did mean that the ideology had been defeated, and that there wasn't any international apparatus to support it. Hitler sent the Condor Legion to Spain, and Castro sent Guevara to the Congo. Now, they ain't sending anyone anywhere. Any wanna be terrorist in the middle east has to actually make contact with an internationalist network of terrorist organizations in order to carry out massive attacks against the US. The War on Terror is a war against those organizations, as they are now, and as they come into being in the future, just like the Tripolitan War wasn't won by making sure that there was no motivation to engage in piracy, but rather by sinking the ships and making life far too difficult for people attacking the US.

Originally posted by WarGame
the IRA-Sinn F驮 lost the war in Northern Ireland and if you came to Northern Ireland and talked to people on the streets you would see that they (Sinn F驮-IRA) settled for second best on 70% of the burning issues and 100% on their overriding issue,

How you can say that Sinn Fein/IRA lost the 'war' when the likes of Mr. McGuinness are now elected memebrs of Parliament is beyond. It also cannot be deined that British forces are withdrawing. To me, this withdrawl constitutes, if not a defeat, then certainly not a 'victory'. Would those of a Nationalist bent not perceive the situation as a 'victory'? Are the Unionist community now not afraid of impending 'betrayal' as the winds of devolution sweep through the United Kingdom?

they want an all Ireland, this by law can now never happen.

Correct.

Really shocked to hear this kind of post come from a Scottish person (all be it from a Scottish catholic) but all the same shocked and surprised that you?re not an American with such words.

Really shocked to be called a Scottish person. Check your geography and you may see that my declared location is somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

It is also interesting that you assume me to be Catholic!

[edit on 10-7-2006 by KhieuSamphan]

[edit on 10-7-2006 by KhieuSamphan]