We ARE winning the war on terrorism!

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9LC

posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by Durden
The only victory I'll grant the Bush Admininstration here is how they've so successfully made their citizens believe a war like that to be completely rational.

Such a ridiculous notion should really make you wonder what the other hand is doing...



i agree with you 100%



terrorists my ass, profit is more like it.



9LC

posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 04:55 AM
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911 is a collective consciousness ritual.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 05:15 AM
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The War on Terror. It implies that those fighting in it's name are committing something other than terror, being attuned to a higher frequency of ethics, morals and regard for human life and limb. Really?

If perfunctory Coalition forces or suicide bombers with fanatical callings were bombing my neighbourhood, how would I tell the difference, if I survived? I would still feel terrorised.

One difference may be the targeting of strategic interests by the Coalition over the targeting of innocents by suicide bombers. Yet the Coalition is not that accurate. Innocents are still caught in the Western barrage.

Is the war winnable or is it a continuing osmosis of bloody history through the hands best placed to control evermore sophisticated means of outraging, yet simultaneously disempowering, the potent emotions of the wider flock? A semblance of truer freedom in the new millenium is to unleash ourselves from what we are constantly hearing from the same interconnected sources.

Does my freedom rely upon this war? Does my freedom to type these words depend upon an invasion of a far away land? No, my freedom depends on me into the future and the ghastly sacrifices forced upon my forebears.

Who and what exactly is the war being fought against? Terrorists who hate our way of life or self defined Muslims who think their world is caving in because of us? Are they ultimately the same as us, tasting a different psychological flavour of officially sanctioned, mind altering excrement?

A disparate, but potent group takes responsibility for 9/11, without doubt a hideous act of unmitigated terror. I will never forget the night I watched through hours of a sunny New York morning destroyed. But I've only ever seen the 'enemy' bombed briefly and from the perspective of a distant camera. What does that tell us about the mainstream message the West is fed upon?

There is an unexplained gap between the motivations for 9/11 and the justification for the wars currently fought against the apparent and rhetorically associated perpetrators.

Why did the VEEP say it could last for decades? Because that is the intent? Why wait between discrete wars when they can be permanent?
Mission Accomplished. Yes, it seems permanent, unwinnable war has begun.



[edit on 8-7-2006 by Soulstice]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 05:45 AM
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Well I have a few Questions to the Excited crowd of "Winner" of WOT:

How come, that the US of A actually ARE winning the war on terrorism, if this war is planned to be a very Long One?

Second question:
US commander of all armed forces, mister president G.W.Bush said in the interview for NBC-TV, when they asked him about WOT - the answer was, when he was asked "Can We Win?":

"I don't think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

He kind of does not think they can win it.

Hmmmmmmmm...


Three Years On, War on Terrorism Looks Like a Loser

”Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror,” he wrote in a memo to his top staff 11 months ago. ”Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?”

“If that is how success in the Bush administration’s ‘war on terrorism’ is to be measured, then Rumsfeld would have to conclude that he is failing badly.”
(added by IPS)

Sure makes you think ey? First the plan for a Long War on Terror, then the president of United States, that the WOT is kind of not very Win-able. Well it certainly makes threads with titles like this seem a little funny! Actually if you go a little more deeper, maybe "They" do not want to win it so quickly - now, think about it; War is Profit, War is Shares, War is Money. So why would you quickly kill all the "Terrorists" and proclaim Victory and enter a time of Peace, when Peace does not sell very good.

And what did mister Rumsfeld say?

But okey - business is Good for some right?

What about the Mass of Others, who do not have the connections in the Military-Industrial complex and do not make a Gazillion dollars out of WOT?

So what actually is War on Terrorism?

Is it really aimed at "Terrorists"?

Is it really such a Success?

Is it really Win-able?

OR is a WAR ON FREEDOM?

Is it all just to slowly and silently bring in new laws and discard "old" and obsolete ones (like Basic Human Rights and International Law). Or is it about to slowly remove the "old" and "obsolete" Freedoms that we today enjoy (kind of) and install Fear and Control? Is it a start of a New World Order, when All world goverments will fight the "Phantom Terrorists", and use this Fear from them to change and shape the laws according to their wishes? Will the goverments slowly start to merge, like European Union, and have United Armies, like the United Nations Army proposed lately?

Actually War on Terrorism is One Big FRAUD. We have all been Conned like never before people! War on Terror is not just a Fraud, and a Failure but it is also Bogous. And the next time "They" pass a new law, each and everyone one of us here, could be considered a possible "Terrorist" and could be Processed to the nearest Detention Camp.

And the Global Elite are just Laughing at Us.

And counting Dollars.

[edit on 8/7/06 by Souljah]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 06:03 AM
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One attack was prevented, and lives saved. That IS one battle won in WOT, not entire war. And far from it, because preventing attacks is by no means way to win this war.
Sooner or later, terrorist attack will succeed, and that is, sadly, a fact.

To win this war, it's not good enough to suppress the consequences; causes and sources of terrorism must be neutralised. And that cannot be done military way (like Iraq or Afganistan).

[edit on 8-7-2006 by Duby78]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 07:35 AM
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i think both america and britain ( where i am from) are stupid, the media potrays a terrible outbreak of terrorism however the real terrorist are blowing up there own countrys. you are more likely to die by lightning than a muslim terrorist attack. we've had one in the past i dunno couple a hundred years. thats a good track record. america lost the lives of 3000 in 9/11 and the retaliation saw the murder of 6000 innocent iraqis. live in fear, it will disable you for your government (the real terrorists).



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Its nonesense to say that the US can't defeat 'terrorism' because its an 'abstraction'. There's nothing abstract about international networks of black market banks, arms dealers, money launderers, recruiting stations, training camps, and actual terrorist cells.
Its nonsense to say that the US can't defeat "terrorism" because its an ideology. Communism has been defeated as an ideology, as has nazism & fascism, they're recognized as non-viable political alternatives.

Youre wrong, there are still people out there who believe in those ideals. All it takes is a handful of terrorists who still believe in their ideals and they have the ability to kill thousands.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
Of course we are winning. Terrorists will always be losers.
Tell that to the relatives of the next attack. I cannot believe some is so gullible to actually believe its being won.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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We're winning the War on Terror? In what shape or fashion? Consider:

* It's been almost five years since 9/11, and here we are still talking about it and worried about more attacks. That's an all out victory for terrorists everywhere as it shows how susceptible we are to fear, which is what terrorism is all about.

* The government has managed to pass a law (twice) that strips away our personal freedoms the second anyone suspects us of terrorist connection. The loss of our liberties, freedoms and fundamental protections, as outlined in the constitution and bill of rights, is a clear victory for terrorism, and a bitter defeat for America.

* The government has developed and implemented a domestic spying campaign, ignoring and breaking several laws, and invading the privacy of Americans. This lost privacy will never be recovered. For those 100,000,000 Americans that now have open dosiers with the FBI and NSA, your privacy is completely gone. Your privacy cherry has been popped, and you're never getting it back. Terrorism made this happen, and this ramification will be with us for the rest of those 100,000,000 lives.

* Terrorism has destroyed the morals that we once held high. As an open society we prided ourselves on not participating in many activities we consider barbaric. How have we changed? Torture is now considered acceptable, when the government says it is necessary. We have been knocked from the moral high ground into the gutter.

* The flow of information has been controlled, shaped, and at other times blocked. Freedom of the press is no longer a truth and staple of American society. Propaganda and polarization are the earmarks of our Fourth Estate. The press, who are supposed to be the daily oversight for the people, have become just another target by the present administration. "You are either with us (Fox, ClearChannel, Weekly Standard, etc.) or you are against us (New York Times, Washington Post, NPR, PBS, etc.)". We have turned our greatest resource (information) into the greatest weapon against ourselves.

What is sad is that the terrorists did not commit any of the acts outlined above. We did those ourselves as we reacted to the fear the terrorists created. These things that we have lost, we took away ourselves. As it turns out, in the War on Terror, the greatest enemy appears to be ourselves.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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So how can you win the War on Terror? Is it winnable at all? I think it is, but not in the manner this war is being fought. This is a war of ideology, and you do not defeat an ideology through confrontation. To defeat an ideology you must make the ideology defeat itself (as we our presently doing in our responses to terror here at home). So how do we get the "Islamofascists" (the dumbest term coined by anyone anywhere btw) to defeat themselves? Well, we don't. We make it so becoming a terrorist is self defeating and morally reprehensible in the Islamic world. But how do we do this?

This war is about the hearts and minds of the Islamic world. We are viewed as the enemy because we continually clash with their culture instead of working with it and acknowledging it. To win the hearts and minds, and in the end defeat the hatred that resides in those hearts and minds, we must modify their worldview, and at the same time modify our own. We must heal our species of this disease called hate, and must make a commitment to wiping it out. Here is how we do that.

* Appeal to the moderates and give them a voice. We must find the strong moderates and make sure their voices are heard. Give them the money and the channels to communicate the positive message about the west. Give the people the truth instead of the twisted story they receive from those with an agenda of hatred. This applies on both sides of the world.

* Educate the uneducated. It is truly sad when hatred gains a foothold in a mind and is allowed to fester. When a stereotype becomes reality for millions of people, we have lost the war. Sadly, stereotypes are what the people on both sides of this conflict believe in, and count on to keep the issue aflame. The only way we defeat this hatred is to destroy the stereotypes. To do this, we must educate the masses about the other culture and show that it is a culture of peace. The benefits of each culture must be explored and must be acknowledged. We must strive to understand our neighbor as much as we understand ourselves. When our neighbor becomes our friend, there is no hatred, there is no war. To win this battle we must institute education systems for people to learn about each other. Money must be spent to give the Islamic world a chance for a westernized education, and a shift away from the Madrasa and towards secular institutions. In the west, we must learn about the rich history of the Islamic culture and the region itself, and make these learnings important factors in our education.

* We must also strive to give people a chance to feel good about themselves and their culture. Thomas Friedman, in “The World Is Flat”, identified that the Islamic world has a very bad image of itself and feels like it is being subjugated by the west. We must give the people a chance to build up the pride in themselves and in their countries. We must give them a chance to work with us as equals and respect their ways. When we go to their countries we must live by their rules and honor their traditions. We may find them backward or out of step with the world today, but we are visiting their home and must abide by their rules. By not doing so, we insult them, and give the impression that we feel superior and righteous. We demand that they adapt to our cultural norms when they visit our countries, we should be more than ready to do the same when we visit theirs.

I believe that if we do these simple things that we will defeat the terrorist ideology and we will find peace in the future. This is going to be a very long battle. It is going to take two or three generations of people before we start to see significant change. Education takes time and our actions need to be accepted as benign. Once both sides learn more about each other, and understand that we are the same people, with the same base wants, needs and fears, we will become better neighbors and the healing shall really begin.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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This is merely all plain and true treason, and the enemies of liberty have us boxed up in knots. First we have shown that the issue of terror is almost a unique curse that came with the Bush Administration. Next we need to look around at all our advisors around us stationed to confuse and destroy us. Whenever the government ever acted funny, why were we surprised to see around us people chanting all day long, "Conspiracy theorist, conspiracy theorist, conspiracy theorist!" Then then called us paranoid all the time. We are supposed to know that those who do this in all but telling us that in a free country we must not believe there is a true-to-life conspiracy is indeed involved in one.

Just take a look back at their intelligence and see how they even mesh with Bush's treason. How are you going to depend on these people for even common sense when Bush then sees an Iraqi dictator who was beaten to a pulp already after Operation Desert Storm, then come and tell us that we have to war again with him in order to "save America?" President Bush told us he would have attacked Iraq anyway even though there were no WMDs in order to "SAVE AMERICA." This proved that he has an aversion to American law. American law forbade him from making pre-emptive war in order to free any country from tyranny. Then, all of a sudden, viewing he could not get war by merely violating American law, he came out with the WMDs lie.

With Iraq beaten to a pulp and America even always having ariel surveillance capabilities I was told in the late 70s was good enough to even see a basketball from space, how could we have falled into this mess.

After America is destroyed and is put under tyranny, we will understand something about those who echoed the words, "Conspiracy theories" in our ears day and night. The very first people to tell the truth about the demented PARANOID president was supposed to be those people. If they were not liars nor involved in any conspiracy, they would have done their utmost to get professional mental help for President Bush, as he demanded that Iraq must surrender what they did not have to the taking of many lives. At the same time, N Korea boldly told us they had WMDs and Bush, with his fraudulent moral claim for making war against all brutal regimes that have WMDs ignored N Korea completely. With Iraq denying they had any, nothing was conclusive. With N Korea boldly telling us they had some, it was conclusive that they had WMDs.

We will never avoid tyranny and the Inquisitions returning if we continue to tolerate the lies of even people storming and posting on all free systems who are involved in the global conspiracy. They have a terrible record of insanity that we must no longer depend on. They let the worst paranoia through, and every time they open their mouths or write their fictions, it is as if an open sepulchre is opened to the destruction of many lives.

Truth shows our society is being refashioned to resemble the Communists and the Nazis. Everything around you is supposed to show you that this is no accident. That is one technique of watching people around us teaching us falsehoods, such as avoiding paranoia, who then allow the most gross paranoia to go unchallenged when people are committing treason.

There is nothing hard about this whole scenario about TERRORISM and the WAR ON TERROR. We never had to worry about these things all our lives. People are sent to make these easy situations complex by gridlocking us day and night on every media that is called FREE.

Do not depend anymore on the insanity of those who wield the almighty accusation of "Conspiracy theories" and "paranoid." President Bush is by far not going to drink rivers of blood alone. Neither is Adolf Hitler. If you do anything to solve the issues overtaking us and prevent the loss of life, those people all but telling us we must not in a free country know that a true-to-life conspiracy is taking place will stand up and fight us. If someone stands up to do anything to allow the bloodletting and violation of Constitutional principle continue, those who cry the blues in paranoia about the big bad 'ol Conspiracy theorists that are out to get us, will move to help him.

Give up on these people and vote for your own lives and that of your country! Actually, we have sat on the activities of all of those involved in treason for so long, we have actually lost America. The time is now to stand up and protect ourselves from the now inevitable tyranny about to storm upon us!

tmac1238@seventh-dayadventism.com

[edit on 8-7-2006 by tmac100]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Souljah

Second question:
US commander of all armed forces, mister president G.W.Bush said in the interview for NBC-TV, when they asked him about WOT - the answer was, when he was asked "Can We Win?":

"I don't think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

He kind of does not think they can win it.

His answer was very well-reasoned, imo. If he had said "Yes, we can and will win", people would have jumped all over him.

How do we determine "winning"? Exactly as GWB says, make it too miserable to join the terrorist scum.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 10:08 AM
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The only people winning anything are those who profit from the business of war.

Before 9/11 U.S. military funding was at an all time low.
( See " Rebuilding America's Defenses.pdf" PNAC )

Al Qaeda was a small isolated extremist group that should have been dealt with
as international criminals. Period!

As it turned out, Bin Laden has become the Trillion Dollar Man.

Now with more than 50,000 civilian casualties in Iraq we have guaranteed future reprisals.

In effect this misguided War On Terrorism is like trying to put out a fire with gasoline.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 10:19 AM
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Their ultimate goal is global domination and not oil. They know once you conquer the whole world, the oil will come and the money will come.

Remember that those chanting in the air day and night, "Conspiracy theory" do not notice that the American system is about bankrupt. One president comes and turns a nice surplus to the most astounding deficit. If you try to change that, then they would notice something wrong. In order to pretend they don't see this big barn, people then post in about the curse given us by Bill Clinton!

Remember that when the unprecedented high fuel prices were killing us and Bush was asked to tap into the Emergency Fuel Reserves, he constantly said NO. He said that's needed for an emergency, as if the gaping debt is not? If America goes bankrupt, BUSH WILL BE A DICTATOR. How is it we cannot see that this is what he wants? How is it we cannot see that those who chant all the time, "Conspiracy theory" will only oppose those who don't want this? Bush treats the Emergency Fuel Reserves much differently from the economy. I am talking about those fuel reserves that will allow the government to run tanks and military hardware against the US citizens when all comes crashing down.

When all comes crashing down, Bush will be fed, his propaganda team will be fed. Will you be fed?

[edit on 8-7-2006 by tmac100]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 11:08 AM
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If you believe this, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.




Originally posted by undecided2
I realize many of you are doubters out there, but I honestly believe we are winning. The latest victory can be seen in the thwarted NYC tunnel bombing plot.

abcnews.go.com...

There have been several plots discovered and stopped since 9/11. I think the Bush administration deserves some credit here. I know many of you will say this is how they planned it (9/11 conspiracy, Iraq war, etc.), but there will always be those who think everything that happens is due to some shady conspiracy.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 11:16 AM
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The whole terrorism fiasco business is not hard to decipher when we start to examine the people who failed to protect us and gage their concern for the 3,000 lives that were lost. Under such enormous issues, Bush didn't Blush, but smugly told us he will not testify in the 911 "independent investigation" that he made to take place more than a year after the tragedy. He then smugly told us he will not testify under oath.

As yet I have not seen anyone demand straight answers from those crying out, "Conspiracy theory" day and night, why they asked us concerned about the Patriot Act if we have anything to hide (since they claimed they must do what they have always already been doing: snooping our private information), and did not present such a question to President Bush who failed to protect the American people, and has then since shown that he is proud that he did!

[edit on 8-7-2006 by tmac100]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
The Ulamma have been calling America "the great Satan" since it began suppressing piracy in the Mediterranean, 150 years before Israel even existed.


What was America doing in the Mediterranean over 200 years ago?



Wikipedia: "The First Barbary War"

Ever notice those lyrics in the marine hymn? "From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli."

I just had to revisit this comment. Ya know, it's funny how whaa and a couple of others took swipes at me for posting "facts" and "showing off" my education. And yet a bunch of people post the most inane drivel, and have absolutely no concept of America's historical interactions with muslim states, and then hurl venom at me for trying to educate the lot of you.

But then, don't ever let my facts get in the way of your liberal rhetoric. Enjoy your thread. Chant "deny ignorance" all you want, maybe you can shout down anybody who actually knows anything--maybe you can hound everyone who disagrees with you into just leaving this site.

.

[edit on 8-7-2006 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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There are questions for you to answer. Just answer them.

Whatever may challenge your intelligence will be shown to be your own fault or inadequacies, all the more showing that Bush apologists are never to be trusted. There are questions for you to answer. What I'm saying now is so simple, it will be your own fault if you can't understand what I'm asking.

[edit on 8-7-2006 by tmac100]



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 12:19 PM
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The way to win over and stopping terrorism is not dropping bombs, but dropping education. The next time we are doing a bombing run in Afghanistan, drop thousands upon thousands of leaflets teaching the benefits of true democracy, the amenaties advanced technology can bring if stability were allowed to exist. Give them more education, drop textbooks all over the place on what it takes to sustain a peaceful society. Give them information on developing technologies and the potential they have for the human race, such as hydrogen fuel, solar technology, and water treatment.

Drop all kinds of texts explaining how violence and suffering is counter-productive to humanity and how tolerance and unity between people regardless of race, religion, culture, ethnicity, or nationality gives us the potential to bring stability and good health to many places in the world who can not enjoy peace because of violent and regressive thinking.

I gaurantee doing this can turn over many of the alleged terrorists to the progressive cause of advancement of the human race and help them abandon their violent past. However it will require us to be forgiving and offer a new life to people who choose to do so. What kind of moral advantage would our ideology have over theirs if we can not forgive people for their past, allow them to join our society, and help them to make better of their future?



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

I just had to revisit this comment. Ya know, it's funny how whaa and a couple of others took swipes at me for posting "facts" and "showing off" my education. And yet a bunch of people post the most inane drivel, and have absolutely no concept of America's historical interactions with muslim states, and then hurl venom at me for trying to educate the lot of you.
.

[edit on 8-7-2006 by dr_strangecraft]


Yep, I took a swipe at you, along with others that I feel are arrogant, patronizing and disrespectful to members of this forum. I think the last sentence of the above quote explains where you are coming from.





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