Weapons Meet WMD Criteria

"It just doesn't make any sense for the Bush administration to pretend that they can't find them with so much political hay riding on it... no more sense than Saddam Hussien sending his WMD to Syria or failing to use whatever methods he had at his disposal to ward off the American attack."

Semper that still does not answer those questions.

I could accept that he had WMD or that he was trying to restart his program but logic tells me that if he did not have them but was just trying to get them, he wasn't the threat he was made out to be.

Nor does it address the fact that his immediate neighbors most concerned about him, had, by the time we attacked no longer considered him a serious threat and said so.

quote by ceci2006

Are you really going back to that Joseph McCarthy "red scare" rhetoric? I thought that was thrown out the window when Edward R. Murrow decimated him on television.

REPLY: Funny, when it came to be known that E.R.Murrow's best friend and assistant was a Communist supporter (didn't see THAT in Loony Cloony's movie did 'ya?).

Communism is alive and well here in America, for starters:
The college anti-riots of the late 60's were started by Communist infiltrators, as became known from previously secret documents released to America after the wall came down;

During the cold war there was an extensive nationwide communist intelligence community providing information to the enemy;

McCarthy was absolutely correct in his assertions. The name is "Progressive" again:
[link] en.wikipedia.org...

Today:
[link] www.cpusa.org...
A couple of years ago the above page had a membership list available for view; now it is hard to find or they no longer make that information available on their site. At last count, there were over 50 members of government among their membership. ALL of those are on the Progressive Caucus to this day, and all are Democrats!!!

An array of national progressive organizations will work to support the efforts of the caucus, including the Institute for Policy Studies (Marxist/Communist) The Nation Magazine, (Marxist) Moveon.org, (Marxist/Socialist) National Priorities Project, Jobs with Justice Campaign,(Marxist) Peace Action, Americans for Democratic Action, and Progressive Democrats of America. (Marxist Communist).

Also co-sponsoring the kickoff event were the NAACP (racist), ACLU (Communist), Progressive Majority(Marxist), League of United Latin American Citizens (Marxist/Socialist), Rainbow/Push Coalition (Marxist/Socialist/Racist), National Council of La Raza (Racist/Socialist), Hip Hop Caucus (Marxist and anti-decent music), Human Rights Campaign (Marxist/Socialist).

(Admonishments mine, but accurate.

Most of the above are funded by George Soros and Peter Lewis (from "Progressive" Insurance, Both Marxists and Socialists/Anti-American/Anti-Constitution.

[link] en.wikipedia.org...
[link] bernie.house.gov...://cpc.lee.house.gov/ [/link]
Now.... you were saying what about no Communism in America???

Especially when planting those WMD's.

REPLY: One link does not proof make, especially from a link to a story that gives no accountable sources.



[edit on 13-7-2006 by zappafan1] For syntax

[edit on 13-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Then the question is, why do you care? This is about WMD's. And I am with grover, on this one. If Mr. Saddam was truly a threat, he would have used them against us. If he truly had the goods, he would have gassed a lot of U.S. soldiers during the first days of "shock and awe".

I just tend to think that Iraq was target practice for trying out the ideas in PNAC. They wanted to have "simultaneous wars". Well, they do--in Iraq and Afghanistan. But whether they have a Pax Americana is another thing. Iraq, unfortunately, is a quagmire started out of greed and ended up into a major catastrophe. And at the center of this, Iraq civilians (the colonized) are being used as a way to make this war right.

WMD's were just a barganing chip that turned out to be a bluff. In the end, they couldn't find any. So, what is happening is to put the face of "democracy" on this conflict so that people would feel patriotic about it while being had by the people in power. I mean, what does "democracy" truly mean in Iraq anyway, with WMD's or no? Even if there were WMD's, that puts Iraq as the enemy. And if "Iraq is the enemy" in the mind-sets of a lot of people, what good does it do to bring "democracy" and "liberation" over there in the first place?




[edit on 14-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: This is reference to the trucks caught on satellite recon moving Iraqi "materials" to Syria, with the help of the Russians.

Too bad noone can show those trucks "caught on satellite" right? Kennedy at least could provide pictures to prove the Russians installed bases on and shipped missiles to Cuba.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: You have this totally wrong; where did you get that from? Sada was asked by Saddam to become a member of the Baath Party in 1986, but refused. Nonetheless, Despite being a Christian and refusing to join the Baath Party, Sada was promoted to Saddam’s inner circle for his honest advice.

i have it totally right as Sada hadn't been serving since 1991 and had been arrested in 1991. He doesn't seem to have been in a position to know and he has provided absolutely no evidence whatsoever for his claims. He claims to "have heard it" from Iraqi airforce pilots. So they were moved by trucks "caught on satellite" of which noone can show the trucks, now it's by plane of which noone can name the pilots. Real tangible material.

Originally posted by zappafan1
REPLY: To this day the coalition forces are greeted with much fanfare and thanks, and the statue event was most certainly not "staged", and the square was FILLED with people. An event to be shown, yes, but not staged (saw it firsthand).

There are pictures and eyewitness testimony showing otherwise. From below it looks like a bit of a crowd, from above it looks a lot less spectacular.

Originally posted by zappafan1

Are you really going back to that Joseph McCarthy "red scare" rhetoric? I thought that was thrown out the window when Edward R. Murrow decimated him on television.

REPLY: Funny, when it came to be known that E.R.Murrow's best friend and assistant was a Communist supporter (didn't see THAT in Loony Cloony's movie did 'ya?).

Communism is alive and well here in America, for starters:
The college anti-riots of the late 60's were started by Communist infiltrators, as became known from previously secret documents released to America after the wall came down;

During the cold war there was an extensive nationwide communist intelligence community providing information to the enemy;

McCarthy was absolutely correct in his assertions...

An array of national progressive organizations will work to support the efforts of the caucus, including the Institute for Policy Studies (Marxist/Communist) The Nation Magazine, (Marxist) Moveon.org, (Marxist/Socialist) National Priorities Project, Jobs with Justice Campaign,(Marxist) Peace Action, Americans for Democratic Action, and Progressive Democrats of America. (Marxist Communist).

Also co-sponsoring the kickoff event were the NAACP (racist), ACLU (Communist), Progressive Majority(Marxist), League of United Latin American Citizens (Marxist/Socialist), Rainbow/Push Coalition (Marxist/Socialist/Racist), National Council of La Raza (Racist/Socialist), Hip Hop Caucus (Marxist and anti-decent music), Human Rights Campaign (Marxist/Socialist).

(Admonishments mine, but accurate. [Emphasis Added]

Wow, I can't believe someone is actually arguing in favor of Mcarthyism!

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. To quote one of my favorite movies, what we have today is "Neo-Mcarthyism." Instead of scaring everyone of communists the new Mcarthyism focuses on making sure everyone is scared of terrorists.

On top of that you think the NAACP is racist. Let me give you a few examples of what the "racist" NAACP has done over the years:

Fighting Jim Crow

In its early years, the NAACP concentrated on using the courts to overturn the Jim Crow statutes that legalized racial discrimination. In 1913, the NAACP organized opposition to President Woodrow Wilson's introduction of racial segregation into federal government policy...

...The NAACP devoted much of its energy between the First and Second World Wars to fighting the lynching of blacks throughout the United States. The organization sent Walter F. White to Phillips County, Arkansas, in October, 1919, to investigate the Elaine Race Riot in which more than two hundred black tenant farmers were killed by roving white vigilantes and federal troops after a deputy sheriff's attack on a union meeting of sharecroppers left one white man dead. The NAACP organized the appeals for the twelve men sentenced to death a month later — based on the fact of the testimony used in their convictions having been obtained by beatings and electric shocks — and obtained a groundbreaking Supreme Court decision in Moore v. Dempsey 261 U.S. 86 (1923) that significantly expanded the federal courts' oversight of the states' criminal justice systems in the years to come.

The NAACP also spent more than a decade seeking federal legislation barring lynching. The organization regularly displayed a black flag stating "A Man Was Lynched Yesterday" from the window of its offices in New York to mark each outrage...

Desegregation

The NAACP's Legal department, headed by Charles Hamilton Houston and Thurgood Marshall, undertook a campaign spanning several decades to bring about the reversal of the separate but equal doctrine announced by the Supreme Court's decision in Plessy v. Ferguson. Beginning by challenging segregation in state professional schools, then attacking Jim Crow at the college level, the campaign culminated in a unanimous Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education that held that state-sponsored segregation of elementary schools was unconstitutional.

Bolstered by that victory, the NAACP pushed for full desegregation throughout the South. Starting on December 5, 1955, NAACP activists, including E.D. Nixon, its local president, and Rosa Parks, who had served as the chapter's Secretary, helped organize a bus boycott in Montgomery, Alabama, to protest segregation on the city's buses when two-thirds of the riders were black. The boycott lasted 381 days...

...At the same time, the NAACP used the Supreme Court's decision in Brown to press for desegregation of schools and public facilities throughout the country. Daisy Bates, president of its Arkansas state chapter, spearheaded the campaign by the Little Rock Nine to integrate the public schools in Little Rock, Arkansas.

en.wikipedia.org...

So they organized opposition to racial segregation, sought federal legislation barring lynching, organized the 1955 Montgomery bus boycott started by Rosa Parks (!), and desegregated public schools through Brown vs. Board of Education (!) and the little rock 9.

Seems like an incredibly racist organization to me. Right up there with the KKK and American Nazi party.

The next time you want to say that the NAACP is racist or that (insert random liberal organization) is communist you should try and read up on it beforehand. And don't just read what Ann Coulter has to say about it.

When I read your post praising Mcarthyism and calling the NAACP racist I thought about putting you on ignore. But when I read this part:

Hip Hop Caucus (Marxist and anti-decent music)

I actually laughed out loud. So instead I think I'll keep reading your posts purely for their entertainment value.

Just an innocent question here.

What does any of this have to do with WMD's in Iraq?

Could we maybe get back to the issues?

Please

Semper

Wow, so the picture of Rumsfeld Shaking Hands with his friend, Saddam, AFTER he sold WMDs to him was photoshopped?

Also, the mustard gas FOUND is only dangerous if you drink it or pour it on your skin. 15 years ago when the US sold it to him it could kill people, about 300,000 at the highest non-made up numbers, but today, no.

I like Juadibb, and Zappa, they are so funny! Like wow, I thought they were all on Fox News or on the Rush Limbaugh show, but there are real people who act like Ann Coluter and Rush, and Sean, and Bill, not paid to act like that but really do! Then get mad when facts and proof show how funny they are!

Is there a way to vote this thread my favorite thread eva?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

quote: Originally posted by zappafan1

To this day the coalition forces are greeted with much fanfare and thanks, and the statue event was most certainly not "staged", and the square was FILLED with people. An event to be shown, yes, but not staged (saw it firsthand).

Simon666 said: There are pictures and eyewitness testimony showing otherwise. From below it looks like a bit of a crowd, from above it looks a lot less spectacular.

REPLY: Don't you read???? I WAS THERE!!!

The NAACP is anti-white. DUH! As for the rest of your post, I'm sorry to confuse you with facts; I guess Wiki is no longer a reliable source.

Kids nowadays.......

Since no source will please you, I'm staying on topic.

Originally posted by Johnny Ohm

Wow, so the picture of Rumsfeld Shaking Hands with his friend, Saddam, AFTER he sold WMDs to him was photoshopped?

Could you link to that photo please, also with a pic of the bill of sale? As another has referenced, in this thread, we did not sell him WMD's; they came from many countries in Europe.

i have it totally right as Sada hadn't been serving since 1991 and had been arrested in 1991. He doesn't seem to have been in a position to know and he has provided absolutely no evidence whatsoever for his claims.

REPLY: "Qusay (Hussein) had ordered [Sada] to execute all the pilots," said Eberly. "But Georges wouldn't do it. He argued that the rights accorded to prisoners under the Geneva Conventions were inviolable." According to Eberly, General Sada was later arrested and held by the Iraqi Republican Guard. Later, Saddam changed his minds on the executions, and Sada went on to be an Iraqi officer in good standing.

REPLY: Yeah.. 'ya really got the facts straight, except you forgot the last part that didn't suit your position; I supply it all.

Keep in mind that David Kay was heaped with praise by the Left when he said, "My summary view, based on what I've seen, is we're very unlikely to find large stockpiles of weapons. I don't think they exist." So when David Kay is telling the Left what they want to hear (no WMD in Iraq), he's a respected source. When he tells them what they don't want to hear, ("there is ample evidence of movement to Syria before the war") this respected source is ignored as just another Bush goon. Let's take a look at what Mr. Kay testified to in front of the House and Senate Intelligence commitees, in October 2003. For the full transcript of his remarks, read:

[link] www.cnn.com... [/link]

One part of Sada's statement jives quite well with the intelligence we have. Keep in mind that Sada claims that the weapons were moved "by air and by ground." Compare that to David Kay's comments that "There is ample evidence of movement to Syria before the war -- satellite photographs, reports on the ground of a constant stream of trucks, cars, rail traffic across the border." Clearly, there was a massive amount of traffic going to Syria just before the war. Who or what was being moved? If not WMD's, then what?

As for the fact McCarthy was right, get over it and do more research.
You might also write to the CIA and file a FOIA for copies of the photos of the convoys of trucks going into Syria, since five or six different sources aren't enough for you.

[edit on 15-7-2006 by zappafan1]



[edit on 15-7-2006 by zappafan1]

Sorry Semper, I just have to say this and then I will continue on with talking about the WMD's. I promise.

Originally quoted by zappafan1

The NAACP is anti-white.

zappafan1,

What has the NAACP done to bar white people from any social institution? Nothing.

(Btw, since you are going on guilt by association, several of Dr. Condoleeza Rice's relatives [the most famous, being Connie Rice], have been members and worked for the NAACP. What does that make her, I wonder?)

What does blaming them and other groups with leftist views have to do with this topic? Nothing.

Now, I will get back to discussing the subject matter. No more deviations.





[edit on 16-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Simon666
Too bad noone can show those trucks "caught on satellite" right? Kennedy at least could provide pictures to prove the Russians installed bases on and shipped missiles to Cuba.

...................

...................

Watch him now come up with a new claim....


[edit on 16-7-2006 by Muaddib]

By Grover:

"It just doesn't make any sense for the Bush administration to pretend that they can't find them with so much political hay riding on it... no more sense than Saddam Hussien sending his WMD to Syria or failing to use whatever methods he had at his disposal to ward off the American attack."

REPLY: You're quite correct about it not making any sense. There are many sources of intel that said the WMD's went to Syria..... I've known about ti for two years. As nice as it would be to prove it and/or provide that info to the world would be great, but I'm sure there are political reason he has not. One: is that most of what Kadaffi gave up so willingly, after seeing Saddam in his spider hole, was not actually his. World intel consensus says that he did not have the ability to produce the quantity or quality he surrendered.

Two: Is that rather than bring any heat (world opinion) onto Syria, it would be better to just be glad those WMD's are off the market, since we might need their help, politically, with Iran. Of course, if Syria decides to side with Jordan, I would think all bets are off.

You know what zappa?

I think that you brushed a fine point as well.

President Bush does not care as much about the political infighting, or points as they may wish he did. He cares about those people over there and all this bickering is irrelevant to him. Maybe?

Makes sense, his convictions have been tried and tried and stood the test of time with so much hate out there for him, also, he can't be reelected, he is just doing his job.

I think that far too much is placed on the why's the what's and the where's politically. He is fighting a war, not some silly election campaign.

Semper

Thanks, Ceci. It's difficult to not respond to posts, but this one did get off base, and I helped.

Muaddib..... you know those were done with Photoshop or Xara. NOT!!! Sure... just like the photos of Salmon Pak, with the 747 used for terrorist training.... not real.

By the way, U2U me: where did you find the pic, and point me to where I can find out how to insert photos. Thanks

Zappa,

U2U me again and I'll give you the secret formula for posting pics.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Zappa,

U2U me again and I'll give you the secret formula for posting pics.

Semper

Thanks, Semp... I'll do that.

REPLY: You're quite correct about it not making any sense. There are many sources of intel that said the WMD's went to Syria..... I've known about ti for two years. As nice as it would be to prove it and/or provide that info to the world would be great, but I'm sure there are political reason he has not. One: is that most of what Kadaffi gave up so willingly, after seeing Saddam in his spider hole, was not actually his. World intel consensus says that he did not have the ability to produce the quantity or quality he surrendered.

Two: Is that rather than bring any heat (world opinion) onto Syria, it would be better to just be glad those WMD's are off the market, since we might need their help, politically, with Iran. Of course, if Syria decides to side with Jordan, I would think all bets are off.

My Response: You have voted zappafan1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month. It hurts when somebody you disagree with so much teaches you something new...

by: ConstantlyWondering

zappafan1: You're quite correct about it not making any sense. There are many sources of intel that said the WMD's went to Syria..... I've known about ti for two years. As nice as it would be to prove it and/or provide that info to the world would be great, but I'm sure there are political reason he has not. One: is that most of what Kadaffi gave up so willingly, after seeing Saddam in his spider hole, was not actually his. World intel consensus says that he did not have the ability to produce the quantity or quality he surrendered.

Two: Is that rather than bring any heat (world opinion) onto Syria, it would be better to just be glad those WMD's are off the market, since we might need their help, politically, with Iran. Of course, if Syria decides to side with Jordan, I would think all bets are off.

My Response: You have voted zappafan1 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month. It hurts when somebody you disagree with so much teaches you something new...

REPLY: Thanks for the vote, CW, and I give you great kudos for admitting it when you (me, or anyone for that matter) admits that they have learned something that has or might change their views on any given issue, rather that just ignore or oppose an overwhelming amount of data/evidence which differs from their views/opinions.

I would submit that THAT is what reasoned discussion and debate is all about, and here on ATS in particular. Again, my thanks!

Originally posted by zappafan1
an overwhelming amount of data/evidence...

Evidence of what? With no criteria for identifying what constitutes a wmd you have nothing but a bunch of opinions that you are representing as data.