I Am Convinced That The Official Story Is False...Now What?

r4758 - I'm all for some conspiracy discussion, but the little notice you put on that link, outting people who don't see eye-to-eye with you in this thread, is a little childish.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by suggums]

I don't think so. I think this thread is necessary as is. If this thread allows for the standard back and forth that we see in all the other threads, then that's all this will be, just another bickering thread. Since neither side ever backs down, this is a place for those who have made up their mind to speak with like minded people about the next step.

allowing for the bickering would only bring the thread down.

Originally posted by Regensturm
5th June 1989, Beijing.
A lone unarmed man stands before a row of tanks sent to crush the people's protest for change.
The Tanks stopped. And he stood. And China's government trembled.
One man.
One person.

And then what happened? I seem to recall the protest was crushed, the guy was imprisoned, and things went along pretty much the same.

Reforms have slowly come, but basically as a result of China's need to be part of the WTO, not because of any moral imperative or popular movement.

But hey, if you can find some tanks to stand in front of, go on ahead. Good luck, and let me know how that works out. I'll be in the bar.

Originally posted by Enkidu
I'll be in the bar.

Fascism is usually preceded by apathy.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by Enkidu

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do, short of becoming a mad bomber or assassin.

I hope that isn't the case. Violence will not win many to your side in the west.

Originally posted by Enkidu

If the fire in your belly becomes hot enough,

I assume you are suggesting rage. Again, I am trying to avoid that as much as possible.

I think the correct approach is to take a deep breath, relax, and then look at the situation as objectively as possible.

I like the analogy of putting some sand in a jar of water and mixing it up. At first, the water is cloudy. But, over time, the sand settles, the water becomes clear, and you can see through.

[edit on 7-7-2006 by r4758]

Originally posted by johnlear
..why did many of the Pentagon (standard-issue, battery-operated) wall clocks on the walls of the area of the Pentagon attacked (including one in the heliport just outside the west face) stop from an enormous explosion at 9:32 (actually 9:31:40 a.m.)?"

Got a link to that info?

Originally posted by Vushta

Originally posted by johnlear
..why did many of the Pentagon (standard-issue, battery-operated) wall clocks on the walls of the area of the Pentagon attacked (including one in the heliport just outside the west face) stop from an enormous explosion at 9:32 (actually 9:31:40 a.m.)?"

Got a link to that info?

Information is in public domain. Will be released in a book in a few weeks.

Originally posted by john lear
Information is in public domain. Will be released in a book in a few weeks.

What???? If it is available in public domain surely you could post a link, rather than be an advertisement. So since it is going to be in a book it must be factually accurate right? This is definitely not what you should do next.

Presenting clear concise support for your arguement would be a better start IMO.

Originally posted by pavil
Presenting clear concise support for your arguement would be a better start IMO.

I'm pretty sure this thread isn't about getting into a 9/11 debate. There are dozens of those already. The title of this thread is
I Am Convinced That The Official Story Is False...Now What?

Can you add to the now what?

I agree, and am not trying to steer it that way. Been there, done that. I am staying on topic hopefully.

What I mean is if you believe that you are right, the best way to sway the majority who do not believe you/ just don't care is to present enough evidence that you change their minds. That makes sense to me.

It was just a simple request for a link to back up that statement.

Which will no doubt be met with an attempt to discredit it, which will be followed by a rebuttal, which will lead this thread even more off topic than it already is.

I will give you this, the best thing to do right now would be to convince more people, openly , that this was an inside job. This will require mass media campeigns and political backing, which would be hard to come by.

americanhistory.si.edu...

www.pentagonresearch.com...

Here's the links, without commentary.

Then we are in somewhat agreement, that more compelling evidence must be presented in a manner that convices the unswayed to change/ make up their minds.

Your comment about a mass media campaign doesn't do much for me. Sure if you repeat the same things over and over, some people will be swayed to your side, but just cause you can market an idea well doesn't mean the "truth" gets out.

Originally posted by pavil

Here's the links, without commentary.

Pentagon helipad clock
Description: This Skilcraft electric wall clock, which hung in the Pentagon helipad fire station, was knocked to the ground by the impact of American Airlines flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon.

Context: When terrorists flew American Airlines flight 77 into the Pentagon, the crash nearly took the nearby Pentagon helipad firehouse with it. The concussion caused the ceiling of the firehouse to collapse, temporarily trapping firefighter Dennis Young in the fallen debris. The blast also knocked this clock from the wall, freezing it at 9:32. The airplane actually struck the Pentagon at 9:38 am; apparently the clock was six minutes slow.

Dang...I should have known it. So when the Federal Aviation Administration issued their document "Executive Summary--Chronology of a Multiple Hijacking Crises--September 11, 2001" which reads: "0932: ATC (Air Traffic Control) AEA reports aircraft crashes into west side of Pentagon," they were using the same lowest bidder clocks that the Pentagon was using.

Being that the topic of this thread is I Am Convinced That The Official Story Is False...Now What? I haven't heard many steps that need to be taken next. What do you think is needed more, a prominent spokesperson or smoking gun piece of evidence to convince those that need convicing. Too many have taken the "can't fight City hall" attitude on this thread, why?

How many smoking guns do we need?

1. The quick cleanup of ground zero. No forensic analysis of the crime scene.

2. Guilliani being forewarned of the tower collapse.

3. WTC7 and "pull it."

4. The apparent stand down of Norad.

5. Demolition squibs.

6. Eye witness testimony of bombs going off, corroborated by more than a few firemen.

7. The concrete being pulverised in to dust.

...

And on and on it goes.

I am not sure what to do now.

I participated in a discussion on a fairly right-wing conservative forum. I was polite, and I tried to make my point as clearly as possible and back up my information with source material.

The people there would have none of it.

The called me a commie, lefty, terrorist-loving....etc. etc. etc.

Before I knew it, I was banned from the forum.

The worst part was I never even used profanity or insults.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by r4758]

Originally posted by r4758
Hardly seems worth it.

Sorry to be repetitive but:

Fascism is almost always preceded by public apathy.

There are FAR more believers out there than you think. Maybe you should try an easier crowd than an uber-conservative message board.

I find that most people a logical enough to understand it is a load of BS but fall into one of a few categories:

1. The AMERICAN GOVERNMENT would NEVER do something like that no matter how much evidence you claim to have. (Elitist)
2. If it is true, there is nothing I can do about it so it is better to ignore it. (Apathetic)
3. The current system works for me so ooh, well. (On-board)
4. I am too busy. (watching Paris Hilton on VH1) (Stupid)
5. (They will never say this) I am AFRAID of the consequences of this being true. (Afraid)

They do not understand that it is their childrens futures at stake and must be convinced that this is an important topic. Getting them to turn off the TV, listen with an open mind, etc. is the hard part.

They all caome around eventually and that is the IMPORTANT PART. Making them aware is the first step. Even if they take no action or claim you are nuts, you have planted a seed. In the future we WILL reap what we have sown.

[edit on 10-7-2006 by Slap Nuts]

Originally posted by r4758
Instead, our discussions should now focus on what we should do next.

I tried to make this same thread. It fell, and fell fast. Seems like most threads of this mannor do. I'm ready to stand up justice and for whats right. You may be too. I'm glad to see more people are coming around.

Originally posted by 8th

Originally posted by r4758
Instead, our discussions should now focus on what we should do next.

I tried to make this same thread. It fell, and fell fast. Seems like most threads of this mannor do. I'm ready to stand up justice and for whats right. You may be too. I'm glad to see more people are coming around.

Be educated so you do not get "debunked".
SPREAD THE WORD.
PLANT THE SEEDS.

I like to refer people to www.st911.org. VERY reputable amongst a messy sea of 911 websites. VERY little "questionable" content (missile pods, etc.).

Originally posted by r4758
How many smoking guns do we need?

I applaud you for your efforts in this thread. While I am on the other side of the fence on this one, I can still offer some input.

Perhaps you are shooting too many smoking guns at once? Would not focusing on your best argument of a conspiracy instead of many arguements maybe work better in trying to convice someone? I think anyone would have a tough time convincing someone on one topic let alone multiple topics. I know much of this stuff is inter-related but focusing on your best first might be a good way to start.

I offered that same idea a while back on another site.

I posed this question.

You are offered one chance to present a case for reopening an investigation. You must present your strongest piece of evidence or all is lost. You have ONE shot. What do you present?

You know what answers were given?
None.
A lot of excuses (one piece ties in with another)..but no examples. So in order to have another investigation, ...you have to buy into the whole conspiracy from freefalls to squibs to Marvin Bush to pulverized dust.

Thats not evidence. Thats a conspiracy theory.