Did Giants Once Tread the Earth?

Ever wonder if the race of the Nephilim were really a race at all? Giant men and women topping out at 18 feet tall, ruling over men like gods. The bible states in several chapters that there were races of Nephilim(giants). I found one site that professes this belief of a race of giant beings:

www.returnofthenephilim.com...

I remember Goliath being called a giant back in the bible, 1 Samuel.17:4

4 A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. He was over nine feet (a) tall. 5 He had a bronze helmet on his head and wore a coat of scale armor of bronze weighing five thousand shekels (b) ; 6 on his legs he wore bronze greaves, and a bronze javelin was slung on his back. 7 His spear shaft was like a weaver's rod, and its iron point weighed six hundred shekels. (c) His shield bearer went ahead of him.

I think that if there were truly giants, they were wiped out at the time of the great flood. There is no mention of such beings in the New Testament.


[Mod edit: Fixed formatting]

[edit on 2006-7-31 by wecomeinpeace]

(Mod Edit: Fixed title spelling)

[edit on 8/22/2007 by thelibra]

In this post here I identify, how I Giant from the Bible was just/could be, 8 foot.

I'd suggest that the Giants from the Bible were nothing more than abnormally large humans. Over time they got blown, larger and larger.

There have been skeletons of American Indians discovered here in Indiana that were measured to be between 9 and 11 feet tall, and a skull was found on the Western side of the state (if I remember correctly) that fit over a normal man's sized head like a helmet.

The above can't be considered a "race of giants", but there were some abnormally large people around, just like today.

JDub

Originally posted by Odium
I'd suggest that the Giants from the Bible were nothing more than abnormally large humans. Over time they got blown, larger and larger.

Thats very possible when you consider the average height back then was also much smaller compared to today. Your talking 5-3'' so even 6' which today is quite normal would have been very large thousands of years ago. So somebody 7 plus feet would be a very real giant to those people.

Also when you consider how bones like that of Mammoths can look very human like it could have easily added to the myths and validated them in peoples eyes.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by ShadowXIX]

I found more instances of large skeletons being found in several different areas and more notations from people living in the times of the giants. I still believe they did exist at one time. If there are bones though, of 12-18 foot tall men and women, why haven't archaeologists and museums assembled them and displayed them openly? I have never heard of a giant being in a display of any sort.

www.stevequayle.com...

This is a fascinating subject to me, I would like to see these skeletons of giant men but I have seen only pictures of a bone here or there. I'll keep digging around to see if I can find any good ones.

Cool I have been waiting to use the image I found.
I have nothing to add except to give a visual of the
heights of what a giant may have been in comparison
to use normal bipeds.

Yeah, most those finds are laughable. Search the function, Byrd has gone over them before but they don't actually have the bones themselves. They have "casts" of the bones.

Casts of the bones are as nearly worthless as the casts of bigfoot's prints. It would be so cool though if there were actual bones of giants assembled. I'd be the first in line to walk through the museum display.

Man I would love to be 36 feet tall.
All you have to do is stand around and people would pay you.

But seriously, would it be possible for a human to get over 15 feet tall
and live past 12 years of age ?

I know there were in the past huge ass apes
SOURCE , 10 feet tall at least, but they
were born big.

There are still some huge apes today, but only 6 feet tall.....
SOURCE

[edit on 6-7-2006 by imbalanced]

Originally posted by Truthwillsetyoufree
I found one site that professes this belief of a race of giant beings:

www.returnofthenephilim.com...

Large animal femurs are often discovered and thought ot be giant humans. Infact, this might in itself be the real origin of the idea that there were giants in the distant past, people'd find large femurs, shoulder blades, etc, and think thatthey were their ancient heros.

Also, notice, that is not a fossil. Its a sculpture. Here is the creator's story about how it came about

www.mtblanco.com...
Mr. Jack Wagner sent me the following article in 1996 and asked me to sculpt a human femur the size of the one found in Turkey.

IOW, its bunk. Its not even a cast from a contentious find, some guy read an article written by some other guy, where he says there were giant remains, and then some other guy made a sculpture.

(giving credit where it is due, I found that from the talk origins feedback archive)

I remember Goliath being called a giant back in the bible, 1 Samuel.17:4

Goliath might've just been a tall person. THe philistines are sometimes thought to be invaders to teh region, possibly the remnants of civilizational collapse in greece, where the warriors were, like goliath, wearing greaves, helmets, armour, and used long spears and shields.

I think that if there were truly giants, they were wiped out at the time of the great flood.

There was no great flood, and goliath is long after the flood myth in the bible.

There is no mention of such beings in the New Testament.

The flood occurs early on in the bible, in genesis, its not the demarcation between the old and new testament.

There are many possibilities to explain this.

Suppose we consider the issue in reverse for a moment and see what sort of insight that gives us.

When a species is isolated on an island, a phenomenon called "Island Dwarfing" occurs (there is some controversy over the idea though).

Conditions favor the smaller and the natural tendency of smaller to be better fed and thus not die before having kids, not to mention probably being more potent thanks to be appropriately nourished causes the average size to decrease. Additionally, it is concievable (I'm not sure if it's been proven true- I've only heard it claimed by somewhat dubious "weight-loss 'science'" so far) that living conditions are genetically "remembered" and may influence the function of children.

Homo floresiensis is speculated to be an island-dwarfed Homo Erectus. Whereas Homo Erectus would have been similar in height to a modern person, one set of female H. floresiensis remains was only 3'3".


So it is arguably possible that a person can be reduced in height by just under half by selective breeding and certain genetic factors.

It opens the question of whether all humans are dwarves as a result of our environment. Placed in the right environment for many generations, would humans be nearly twice as tall as they are now?

It does not seem impossible to me that an average male height of 8-11 feet is probably well within reach under the right conditons. Then you have to wonder what happens if someone in a population like this suffers from a pituitary problem and keeps growing.

Suppose you had a group of migrant people with an average height in the 5' to 5'6" range, and they run into a tribe of people who are 9 feet tall, and what's more, this group just by dumb luck happens to have one guy with a thyroid problem who is 12 feet tall. You think the giants might make it into the mythology of the shorter people? I think so.


From there all kinds of things can happen.
You're 5'6" and you beat up a guy who's 7 feet tall.
You tell your kid you met somebody who was almost twice as tall as you and you beat him up.
Your kid tells his kid that grandpa beat up a guy who was twice his size.
That kids tells his kid that great grandpa beat up a guy more than twice his size.
That kid tells his kid that great great grandpa beat up a guy almost 3 times his size.

Somewhere down the line, your 6'3" 6 times great grandson does the math, assumes you were his size, and thinks you fought somebody who was 18 feet tall.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
...When a species is isolated on an island, a phenomenon called "Island Dwarfing" occurs (there is some controversy over the idea though).

Conditions favor the smaller and the natural tendency of smaller to be better fed and thus not die before having kids, not to mention probably being more potent thanks to be appropriately nourished causes the average size to decrease. Additionally, it is concievable (I'm not sure if it's been proven true- I've only heard it claimed by somewhat dubious "weight-loss 'science'" so far) that living conditions are genetically "remembered" and may influence the function of children...

...It opens the question of whether all humans are dwarves as a result of our environment. Placed in the right environment for many generations, would humans be nearly twice as tall as they are now?

Vagabond,

I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

First, there is also a thing called Island Giantism - remember the Galapagos Tortoises.
Isolatioin can cause dwarfism or giantism, depending on the conditions. Predators make an easy example. A predator species that becomes isolated in an area like an island that has mostly large prey species is benefitted by giantism. The same species isolated in an area with primarily small prey species is benefitted by dwarfism.

If a large predator species becomes isolated in an area with primarily small prey, and does not evolve into a smaller subspecies, then it becomes extinct after consuming too much of the prey species, not leaving enough to feed the next generations, and that would be the end of the story. Same with dwarfism.

So giant Hominids (at least) could appear from this mechanism. Humans? I seriously doubt it.

Secondly, living conditions are most certainly not "genetically remembered." Your DNA is your DNA. Sure, it's subject to mutation, and can also change in other ways (viruses can actually insert new code into a species DNA.) But it's pretty much set at conception, and the way you live will absolutely not result in any genetic changes that would tend your offspring toward a similar method of survival. IOW, a giraffe's neck is not long because of generations of stretching the neck trying to reach higher in the trees. It's long because reaching higher is beneficial, hence longer-necked animals were selected for through the harsh realities of life on the veldt. Over time, the animals with slightly longer necks, having a slight advantage, did better and passed their longer neck genes to their offspring, which (somewhat) outnumbered the offspring of shorter-necked animals. Given time, it resulted in the Giraffe.

We could (and have) done similar things with dogs in a much shorter time because selecting performed by human breeders completely eliminates the offspring of animals without the desired characteristic - simply by not allowing them to breed at all. The time period involved in breeding dogs is so short that the dogs do not undergo speciation like animals left to the extremely slow process of evolution do.

Harte

Originally posted by The Vagabond
There are many possibilities to explain this.

But is this one that is not a viable option?

ENOCH CHAPTER XV.
1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you: 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.

Just asking, since it seems to me many are trying to hard to find an answer, when it is already been noted and is quite plainly available.

Of course, BELIEVEING THIS, is another problem, but thats upto the reader.

It is just difficult to see, questioning, when the answers have been given.

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

But I wish to note for Truthwillsetyoufree

A Race of Giants may not be accurate.

Giants alone, would fit the bill, or Giants from the Daughters of Man, could better fit the bill.

But a specific "RACE" of giants, is not the manner this was implied. There would have been Giants in ever race, at that time, and as Nygdan pointed out with Goliath, even after the flood. It would not have just been the Philistines. It would have been all the races that worshiped the Fallen, when they came and set themselves up as gods and dieties in place of God. This is why today, lore and legend suggest tales specific to individual races, having association with Giants.

When reviewing similiar topic, I found a link, I have since lost, that spoke to a cemetary found in the Calendonia Region of Ontario Canada, which borders or is on the Lands of the Six Nations Peoples, who have recently made news during the last while over use of their lands.

Anyways, about 1830, a graveyard was found HERE IN CANADA with skeletons exceeding 9 and upto 12 feet. This was Burial Plots. Tools and such where also found.

If I find the link again, I will post it. I am also ging to speak with my friends in the Six Nations and see what they may say about this. Legend and lore IS Native History afterall.

But the meaning here, is they were everywhere.

And here's a Book. It's a Good Read, and Patrick is a very nice fellow.

www.nephilimapocalypse.com...

And here's a very good Audio Realplayer Archives of a friend of mine. His shows are live every Friday from about 10PM to 1AM.
www.richardsyrett.com...

Patrick has two shows on Archive. They where excellent.

Riddle of the Pyramids Solved - Hear Richard's conversation with Patrick Heron, author of the best selling APOCALYPSE SOON and APOCALYPSE 2000 talked about his new book THE NEPHILIM AND THE PYRAMID OF THE APOCALYPSE.

Apocalypse Soon - Patrick Heron, author of The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse returned to the program to discuss the End of Days and The Book of Revelations.

Patrick even believe this answers who built the Great Pyramid. Makes more sense to me now, than six months ago, but so be it.

And here was another good show

The Nephilim Trilogy - Richard welcomes L. A. Marzulli, author of The Nephilim Trilogy; Nephilim, The Unholy Deception, and The Revealing. In this spellbinding trilogy that weaves truth, prophecy, fiction, and the author’s own shocking research, the Nephilim trilogy opens with the discovery of a giant skeleton in Jerusalem, the ancient remains of the offspring of a fallen angel and a human woman—a Nephilim, and the beginning of a hybrid lineage whose terror is about to be reborn into the modern world.

Just scroll down the Archives and find the Links noted above.

And for that matter, maybe stay a while and listen to some other topics. Never a Dull show, and always full value for info.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by imbalanced
Cool I have been waiting to use the image I found.
I have nothing to add except to give a visual of the
heights of what a giant may have been in comparison
to use normal bipeds.

I would just like to say cool image, im no doctor of anysort but my logic tells me "IF" giants did exist they couldnt have the same bone structure as us. The amouynt of weight the bones would have to hold, places like the ankels, knees and hips would snap as soon as the giants stood up. So i believe any 35 foot giant would have a very different bone structure than we have ever seen in a human.

But hey as i said im no doctor.

First in response to whether or not the book of enoch is a viable answer. It could be, but that really rests on an entirely serpate premise (or one of several separate premises): the existence of God, angels, etc... or at the very least the existence of an appreciably larger species of hominid which had 1. The genetic capability to reproduce with humans. 2. The physical capability for said same... if I may be just a tad graphic I will elaborate by reminding you that the book of enoch, unless it is just SEVERELY corrupted, says that nephilim were between .8 and 2.13 miles tall. If we assume equality of proportions, this would mean that human women were impregnated by a process that basically consisted of being crushed beneath an 800 ft phallus.

As an athiest, I am generally inclined to interpret ancient religious texts in the same light as folk talkes. Davie crocket more than likely shot a bear at some point... but before you know it he wrestled it to death when he was 3. There were very tall, very warlike people who finally got their comeuppance, and next thing you know they were 2 miles tall and the downcast sons of god destroyed by the archangels.

So moving away from angels and 800 foot genitals, I think I'll go back to how, if at all, there may have been humans somewhere in the "stealing Andre the Giant's lunchmoney" category, without going too far over the top.

Originally posted by Harte
Secondly, living conditions are most certainly not "genetically remembered." Your DNA is your DNA.

We don't know where every gene is now, but we don't know what they all do, so it may be a little early for "most certainly not", especially when confronted by the problem that your ability to rebuild yourself is contingent upon your intake of the requisite substances in appropriate form and the perhaps related fact that some organisms too simple to be credited with the learning required for the Baldwin Effect seem to exceed the possibilities of their genetic makeup when their environment requires it.

To say with utter certainty that your DNA is your DNA and that's it is to say with utter certainty that there is nothing so subtle that we could possibly have missed it.

Can an organism be rendered more succeptible to mututation by the circumstances it is exposed to beyond the obvious DNA altering influences of sources such as radiation, UV, etc? Has there been any study of biochemistry and genetics exhaustive enough to show that the body's responses to various stresses can not under any circumstances render it DNA more succeptible to mutation?

Just one of countless questions, most of which I'm probably not even bright enough to concieve while not under the influence of drugs or alcohol, without an answer to which we would be well advised not to show too much credulity but at least to keep an open mind.


Experiments with non-dividing E coli that could not consume lactose found that an error-prone polymerase was encouraged by stress and that this resulted only in selected mutations. Now I'm not pretending to understand every last word on this webpage, but to the extent that I am reasonably proficient in english, the expirment seems to say that without reproduction, the genetic composition of a population made a sudden and specific change based on the environment in which the organisms found themselves.

www.mun.ca...


In relation to giants, what I am suggesting is not that humans who have to stand on their tip-toes regularly will grow taller (as an analogy to the giraffe example you offer).

What I find room to wonder about is whether or not biochemical stresses imposed by the environment certain people chose to inhabit may have made them more succeptible to otherwise rare mutations that would have granted them excessive size in a short enough time and narrow enough locality that the obvious absence of a compelling fossil record doesn't completely sink the theory, keepin in mind that I'm open to the possibility that maybe the fossil record SHOULD sink the theory if there simply is not any plausible explanation for that absence.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
If we assume equality of proportions, this would mean that human women were impregnated by a process that basically consisted of being crushed beneath an 800 ft phallus.

Despite the Logic of the Anatomy assessment, you remark is a bit of a Presumption.

The Nephilium are the Offspring from the coupling of the Fallen and the Daughters of Man, which produced giants, and the varied genetic freaks of Mythic Origin. These are the Nephilium. Not the Fallen.

And from no where, (has it been suggested), in anything that I have ever revewed todate, that these Nephilum partook in Procreating other than with themselves.

Their appetites for mankind was said to have become Oral, and Disgestive, apposed to Carnel and Lust.

Your astute observation, would run similiar to one, (Any Modern Day Man), having intercourse with a Guinea Pig or Ground Hog, (for compasion only). It ain't going to work.

The matter of Measure is also a concern, as you noted. I suggest you review the following. It covers a great deal on this subject in far better terms than I can express, and discusses some of the Genetic considerations you have noted.

www.0wned.org...
The book of Enoch is, by far, the best piece of evidence in understanding the genetics of Angels, and thus, all further postulates will assume that the book's relation of events surrounding the Grigory, their human wives, and their children, the Nephilim, are factual.

You are, as you have indicated, one who despite personal views is able to review alternative material, and I trust you find the link informative, even if it does not conform to your belief.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Shane
If I find the link again, I will post it. I am also ging to speak with my friends in the Six Nations and see what they may say about this. Legend and lore IS Native History afterall.

Well I found a Link to the Niagara Finds, although it is noted in Mr Qualye's Site.

www.stevequayle.com...

This is the same story, I was noting, but some details seem a little different.

Cayuga, August 21-- "On Wednesday last, Rev. Nathaniel Wardell, Messers. Orin Wardell (of Toronto), and Daniel Fredenburg, were digging on the farm of the latter gentleman, which is on the banks of the Grand River, in the township of Cayuga. When they got to five or six feet below the surface, a strange sight met them. Piled in layers, one upon top of the other, some two hundred skeletons of human beings nearly perfect -- around the neck of each one being a string of beads.

"There were also deposited in this pit a number of axes and skimmers made of stone. In the jaws of several of the skeletons were large stone pipes -- one of which Mr. O. Wardell took with him to Toronto a day or two after this Golgotha was unearthed.

"These skeletons are those of men of gigantic stature, some of them measuring nine feet, very few of them being less than seven feet. Some of the thigh bones were found to be at least a foot longer than those at present known, and one of the skulls being examined completely covered the head of an ordinary person. These skeletons are supposed to belong to those of a race of people anterior to the Indians.

The previous story I saw, did note larger finds, upto 12 feet, but that's not important. It is finding these extremely large people, enmass, and seemingly within their "Town" area.

They go on to detail that they have also found evidence Buildings/Dwellings, and as noted above, artifacts.

The following details the source of these finds.

Ancient American Volume 6, Issue 41, p. 9
Researched and submitted by Benoit Crevier
Originally published in The Daily Telegraph (Toronto, Ontario), Wednesday, August 23, 1871, page 1
Reprinted with permission

Seems like an interesting group, with a variety of topics available in the 6 annual publications they issue every other month.
www.ancientamerican.com...


Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Odium
In this post here I identify, how I Giant from the Bible was just/could be, 8 foot.

I'd suggest that the Giants from the Bible were nothing more than abnormally large humans. Over time they got blown, larger and larger.

I see what your saying here, kinda like the fish story, it starts out [this big] and ends up [thissssss big] after it's told so many times over a generation or 2.

Originally posted by The Vagabond

From there all kinds of things can happen.
You're 5'6" and you beat up a guy who's 7 feet tall.
You tell your kid you met somebody who was almost twice as tall as you and you beat him up.
Your kid tells his kid that grandpa beat up a guy who was twice his size.
That kids tells his kid that great grandpa beat up a guy more than twice his size.
That kid tells his kid that great great grandpa beat up a guy almost 3 times his size.

Somewhere down the line, your 6'3" 6 times great grandson does the math, assumes you were his size, and thinks you fought somebody who was 18 feet tall.

Yeah we all get chineese whispers, but that has nought to do with ought! Nephillim apear in other cultures under different guise's Annuki, is a prime example
the stories of enoch and nephilim are refered to in the new testament, also it says in the bible the nephilim continued after the flood and some of the tribes in Gen. are decendants! im not saying they did or did not exist, it once again intrigues me that no civilisation has ever taken responsibilty of the creation of civilisation,

the nephilim are suposed to be the ones who taught us how to use make-up and also the creation of swords etc

Originally posted by Chris the watcher

the nephilim are suposed to be the ones who taught us how to use make-up and also the creation of swords etc

I will agree with you in repsects to the Culturalized Aspect, and it was found in Most Races, but the Above I have a problem with.

You noted Enoch, and it seems clear to me, it was Your Associates, The Watchers, or Grigori, or Fallen, that taught man these things.

This was why they recieved the "Punishment" they obtained. The Nephilium themselves, where the Offspring of these "Watchers" and the Daughters of man.

Ciao

Shane