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Solutions 101, Lets just fix it once and for all! The Israeli/Arab Conflict.

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posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by ShazamsChampion
Simple Make "palestine an actual country, cut off aid from the US and Isreal (thier largest funding source) and let them starve until they decide to be peaceful.
Since noe of thier "arab brothers" will lift a finger to help them the land'll be empty in 4-5 years.


Harsh, Very Harsh. I think they could add your name with Olmerts on the Hate List they have.

I like the other example of Soaking Slugs with Pigs Blood, along with the rest of it, but also agree, that would not go over well in our Fuzzy Liberal World Today. That was nearly as harsh as your suggestion. Strarve them to death.




And to bring this into context of Size, let's just review

What's is This to become, a 6 x 20 Mile Palestine "A"



And of course, this is the Ten Times Area or Palestine "B"

How does this stupid plan ever work. Two Countries called Palestine, within a Sprig of Land.

Out West, you have Land Owners in the U.S. as we have in Canada, that Own more propety than this.

And how do you move about? Land at the Gaza Int'l Airport and take a Limo to Downtown Ramallah? Not Likely.

I hope this is offering a Visual, as to why this has occured. As I have noted, this has been done with INTENT, by everyone concerned, with the exception of the Arab's detained within these camps.

It is a Plan made to Fail. Made to cause grief and anquish around the globe, but a Plan made to fail none the less.

Ciao

Shane




posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
TO SHANE
As to keeping turmoil in the region, that is most likely true in present day politics, but that is a RIGHT wing agenda not the underachiving LEFT



I may have not been clear, and trust you have just mistook my comments.

If the Right had it's way, this would have been finished.

It is the "Appeasing" that the Left has brought into the mix, that continues this problem to this day. 58 Years and counting (I think).

And I did not mean Democrats vs Republicans in the U.S. or the Hawks and Doves of Israel.

I mean the Socialist Agenda driven by the Master's Puppet Organization, the U.N. and prior to this the League of Nations. Both formed this scenario and have done nothing with it.

I am certain Both the U.S. (Dems and Reps) and Israel (Hawks and Doves) would have solved the Caged People Mentality, one way or another by now.

It is the Criminal Liberal Press, along with that bastion of thought refered to as the U.N. would never allow it. Europa is fully complicit as well. And then we have the Arab States that have no excuse but pure Hatred.

The Press only has one interest. Plaster the Media Forums with Front Page Carnage.
The U.N. wants to sit down and talk with Terror Groups and be reasonable.
Europa is whoring for Oil and Trade. This is it's only concern. They'll do whatever the Arab States want.
And the Arabs States want to keep a lid on the Terrorist's in their own midsts, so they act according to the Whims of the Terror Groups.

And what has been done for the Common Arab Families in Gaza or the West Bank by any of these enities? N O T H I N G ! They sit confined and imprisoned for just being stuck there.

Talk about being UN-Wanted.

And sorry if I mislead you originally.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 08:32 PM
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SO executing them by firing squad is harsh, but lopping off the heads of three schoolgirls on thier way to school isn't.

Dipping bullets in blood is harsh, but strapping a belt on to murder innocent bystanders isn't.

Interning foreign fighters who refuse to follow the rules by the Geneva convention is harsh, but kidnapping and killing people on video because they are the wrong race, religion, or nationality or just becuase they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't. Furthermore, flying airplanes into building killing thousands of innocents is not harsh.

Drawing a cartoon of Muhommed is harsh.

I think I understand you perfectly.

G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 09:17 PM
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posted by Houtchens

SO executing them by firing squad is harsh, but lopping off the heads of three schoolgirls on their way to school isn't.
[Edited by Don W]



It was your story, H




Dipping bullets in blood is harsh, but strapping a belt on to murder innocent bystanders isn't.



I thought we’d agreed there are no “innocents” in this world.




“ . . kidnaping and killing people on video because they are the wrong race, religion, or nationality or just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time isn't.



Uh, say again, H. Whose country were they in? Those people were not on a tourist visa, were they? Didn’t they work for Blackwater at $10,000 a month? Why do you think they were paid so much for so little? The killing business (war) has a way of biting back.





Furthermore, flying airplanes into building killing thousands of innocents is not harsh. Drawing a cartoon of Mohamad is harsh. I think I understand you perfectly.

G.Houtchens. armchair coach. amateur historian



We still don’t know why they did that, do we? We still haven’t got a plan have we? We’re still acting like the chicken with its head cut off, aren’t we? We’re running out of men aren’t we? In fact, we’re running out of time, too. If my side wins on Nov. 7, it will be a different world. And a far better one.



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Houtchens
SO executing them by firing squad is harsh
G.Houtchens
armchair coach
amateur historian


In the Fuzzy New Speak Age of Political Correctness, Yes, that is Harsh.

I can hear the Clamour of Bleeding Hearts already.

But as a form Punishment associated with a Capitol Crime, Terrorist, in this case, I find it acceptable and also quite scriptural. Don't do the Crime, sort of stuff.

Likewise for Pedophiles, Murder's and those who willingly Spread Infectous Deseases, with the single minded attempt to infect another. I think they deserve a similiar fate as well. But it is harsh, and sometimes harsh is far more effective than "cuddling" the Convict and "understanding" the Crime.

Eliminating them (Terrorists, Murders, Pedophiles and such) makes the problem Go Away. Fear of a Similiar Fate keeps it away.

But yes, "IF" Arafat was thrown to the ground on the lawn of the Whitehouse and taken away in Chains to face Trail for his Crimes, The Arab's would be better off today. "IF" During Olso or Madrid, Interpol took the Whole PLO Group that where having "Talks" and sent them to the Haige, the Arab's would be better off today.

Wishful Thinking on My Part.

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 4-7-2006 by Shane]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
If my side wins on Nov. 7, it will be a different world. And a far better one.


If your side wins Don, it will make no difference in anything here my friend.

In 50 plus years, your side has had ample time to correct this. It's the Same Old, Some Old. They had 8 Years just a while ago, and the President was just to darn busy to get it done. Oral Fixations were the Priority of the Day.

The Last Election would have made no difference either. Both serve the same Master. Both have the same agenda to push. It will be no different in Nov 08. Both will have the same Master, and who do you think they listen to?



Meanwhile, The Arabs in these Cages, are kept in there until Jan 09?
Nothing changed, Nothing done.



And "if" your side does win, 2012 is going off a 3 to 5 Odds.


Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 11:18 PM
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1: Let the Arabs out of the West Bank and Gaza, and let them go to live and start a life of prosperity and growth in a neighbouring country of their choice.

2: Allow any who deem it important enough in their lifes, to stay, and make them become CITIZENS of Israel. There, 'they can', partake as everyother citizen of Israel, Arabs and Jews alike, and start to Work and build a life in their new homeland.

3: Take the Eastern Borders of Israel to the Jordan and its done.

This could be accomplished in a few months.


The problem with these proposals is that they fail to take into account simple human stubbornness and arrogance. In theory they seem like reasonable options, but we know so well how easily theory fails when put into practice. I fear that, even if one were to devise a perfectly reasonable solution to this problem, one which allowed both sides to compromise and maintain their dignity, such a solution would not be accepted. For example, your first option assumes that Arab people will want to move out of the West Bank and Gaza and take up residence in neighbouring countries. Even if this were the case for the majority, there will always be a percentage of the population who reject any plan which does not favour them with 100% of their demands.

Similarly, your second point assumes that those who stay will want to become citizens of Israel and also that the Israeli Government will allow this. Whilst this may be the case for a proportion (perhaps even a large proportion) of the population, as long as a small minority resists, peace will continue to elude us. After all, an extremist (drawn from whatever side) will not think “If I give a little, both sides eventually win”. Not when, in their own minds, they reason that “If all my enemies are dead, I can have my way without compromise”.

This is the very nature of extremism – that one’s cause is just and right above all others and that, consequently, there is no room for compromise. Others have derided the issue of religion in this matter, but it cannot be escaped. When religion is introduced into the mix – when a given cause is underpinned by religious beliefs – then compromise becomes almost impossible. “Why should I compromise?” a group will ask itself, “when God is on my side? I must be right, because my religious views are the correct ones and God thusly favours me above all others”. In this way, religion becomes a catalyst by which the potential for compromise and discussion is effectively removed.

This is true even if the majority desire peace and reconciliation. If September 11th taught us anything, it is that it only takes a few individuals acting in the name of extremism to render compromise and negotiation obsolete. The history of this region teaches us this, where potential peace plans are disrupted by lone attacks. Unless both sides are prepared to admit some fault and work together to eliminate extremism, peace will be forever disrupted, in my opinion.

To finish, I find it somewhat ironic that this thread is devoted to exploring ways in which sides in the Middle East conflict can work together to compromise and negotiate when we on this forum cannot seem to do so, bantering angry words at each other. If we cannot reconcile and negotiate amicably within this thread, what hope is there for real negotiation over a far more complex issue?



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 12:58 PM
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posted by Shane


posted by Houtchens
So executing them by firing squad is harsh . . ? G. Houtchens [Edited by Don W]



In the Fuzzy New Speak Age of Political Correctness, Yes, that is Harsh. I can hear the Clamor of Bleeding Hearts already. But as a form of Punishment associated with a Capital Crime, Terrorism in this case, I find it acceptable and also quite scriptural. Likewise for Pedophiles, I think they deserve a similar fate as well. But it is harsh, and sometimes harsh is far more effective than "cuddling" the Convict and "understanding" the Crime. Eliminating them (Pedophiles and such) makes the problem Go Away. Fear of a Similar Fate keeps it away. Ciao Shane [Edited by Don W]



What have I ever done to you, Shane? You must do this stuff on purpose, just to make me mad! You are pulling my string! Causing me to risk a heart attack at worst or stomach acid at best.

Well, Shane, I still like you. Despite your inconsiderate demeanor towards me. Why? Because I think you really believe what you write. And that gives you credibility. Not authority, but credibility. And that brings forth the teacher component of my personality. It is part of the Liberal’s mantra that given enough time and sufficient issues, he or she can persuade anyone to his or her point of view.

Pedophilia. To be sexually attracted to children, especially pre-pubescent children. Very old. Barbara Tuchman said Alexander the Great was a pedophile. That he traveled on his campaigns with a 7 year old boy. Why, what or how she did not explain and I never wanted to know. Still don’t. It was perhaps the crime of Socrates. It was widely practiced in ancient Rome. It was a story told about many Oriental potentates, although I doubt if any were first hand accounts. It is rumored to be widely practiced today in Thailand. And Brazil. And elsewhere.

I am no historian. But I am an observer of the world around me. One of the memorable “whippings” of my early life came as my parents feared I had fallen into the hands of a child abuser. I was barely age 10. When my father discovered I had disobeyed his orders, he took a willow switch and “beat” me with it. He did it because he was afraid. And he wanted to impress on me an unforgettable lesson. I still remember that event vividly more than a half century later, so I guess he succeeded. And I never repeated.

So aside from the atrociousness of pedophilia why is the public so fixated on this crime? It is almost as if they think if they could solve this one crime, Jesus would return. We have cheerfully consented to violate our fundamental document, the U.S. Constitution. “Cruel and unusual” means nothing to us in 2006. The proscription of forced testifying against oneself is ignored. The notion that a person was to be accorded another chance after paying his debt to society is out the _

The widely accepted dogma is that everyone guilty once will repeat this crime. That makes all of those convicted fair game for every civil outrage our ever-lovin’ demagoging politicians can think of. Registration. Restrictions on where you can live. And etc. Recidivism is said to run 80% + in all categories of crime. It does not look as if we have much of a “handle” on any kind of crimes. I guess it is easier to build more jails than to work on the causes of recidivism. Hmm?

I can’t wait until someone learns about penectomy coupled with orchiectomy. Let’s hope we do a better job on finding the guilty than they did in Illinois, where 7% of the men on Death Row were found to be innocent - not by the court system but by a Northwestern University student project. As in death, there would be no un-doing this procedure if wrongfully applied.

RFID. It is only a little while before convicted persons will be compelled to suffer an implanted RFID - radio frequency identification device - under their skin, as is now done in pets especially valuable dogs.

I can’t wait until the next crime fad attracts popular public attention. Talk about mob instincts. Yet, despite all this self-proclaimed concern for our children, we have eliminated WIC, reduced the AFDC and cut back on the food stamps. Yes, Lord, we love our children.

Especially if they are white and live in the suburbs and are blessed to be able to attend a fully air conditioned, 15,000 opera seat Mega Church. Or, is the Crystal (Glass) Cathedral a monument to God or Rev. Robert Schuller? Sorry, Sweet Jesus, but you can’t enter here dressed like that. No trousers. No tie. Sandals exposing your (dirty, smelly) feet. Be gone with you, Sir! Before we call the law. Humph!



[edit on 7/5/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah25 what hope is there for real negotiation over a far more complex issue?


Sadly this is very true. Our History has shown this to be true as far back as we keep records. And so many times a simple stupid thing can trigger whole nations to go to full scale war like who gets the girl in the Trojan War.


So this being said, does that mean there is no hope for the human race? with all we have "learned" from History, our advancements in technology etc. why does this keep eluding us that we can't just get along with each other? It really seems to me that we value life so little that we will kill for a piece of land or such. I know this is a simplistic view.

There are many people who do get along with there differences. and its true not much media attention focuses on this fact. But it seems that the world is getting worse, rather than better.

Increased population naturally plays a big role. So is there a solution to our mess or are we doomed to keep this fight going for another 2000 years?

Maybe its time for another flood to clean up this mess. I have my seat booked on the next shuttle



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 02:12 PM
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posted by zorgon



posted by Jeremiah25
(1) What hope is there for real negotiations over a far more complex issue?



Sadly this is true . . History shows this as far back as we keep records . . does that mean there is no hope for the human race? With all we have "learned" from History . . why does [peace with honor] keep eluding us . . can't just get along with each other? [Rodney King] (2) We value life so little we kill for a piece of land. I know this is a simplistic view. Increased (3) population plays a big role . . is there a solution to our mess or are we doomed to keep this fight going for years? (4) Maybe its time for another flood to clean up this mess. I have my seat booked on the next shuttle. [Edited by Don W]



(1) Does anyone think for one New York minute that if the Palestinians did not commit acts of violence there would even be talks about talks?

(2) If you are born there, you may be willing to give your life for it. Apparently newborns “bond” to the place of their birth. Like the Arctic tern, the longest migrating bird. It always returns to the place of its birth.

(3) Religion. Hindus. Catholics. Evangelicals. And etc. By the 1970s, writers were warning that the Earth cannot sustain more than 2 billion people long term in the style (1970s) we were accustomed to. We now have 6.5 billion and inexorably going to 8 billion, as the earliest turnaround point. Yet the Pope still urges more children and the Evangelicals fight abortions. And both wage war on condoms.

(4) The Gilgamish Noah Flood myth won’t save the world.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah25
For example, your first option assumes that Arab people will want to move out of the West Bank and Gaza and take up residence in neighbouring countries.

Similarly, your second point assumes that those who stay will want to become citizens of Israel and also that the Israeli Government will allow this.

“Why should I compromise?” a group will ask itself, “when God is on my side? I must be right, because my religious views are the correct ones and God thusly favours me above all others”.

If September 11th taught us anything, it is that it only takes a few individuals acting in the name of extremism to render compromise and negotiation obsolete.

I find it somewhat ironic that this thread is devoted to exploring ways in which sides in the Middle East conflict can work together to compromise and negotiate when we on this forum cannot seem to do so, bantering angry words at each other.


Your points are well taken and I do understand what you are noting.

From my prespective, Negotiation has run it's course. It's time for a Solution.

And I would tend to believe it would be a FORCED Solution, with more than a few very unhappy people.

But I ask any of you.

If we have have any concern for this problem, is it not better to ensure the Next Generation of Arabs born, "Know/Have" a viable future? One where they can "Decide" for themselves, what they will do.

Work hard and contribute to Society while building a life for them and their Families?

or

Wallow in Misery.

Those who wish to Move towards a Constructive Future, would most definately be welcomed in Israel, The U.S. and Canada, should also step up in welcoming those, as should the Arabs States themselves. It is obvious, they may not be pleased to leave Israel/Palestine, (in the Historic Sense), but it is a better life, that hangs in the Balance

Those who wish to wallow, Well, they will never be happy, so we move them Carte Blanc. Here's four or five buses with four or five destinations. Get on, whichever one your wish to get on, or we'll pack you up and send you on one of our choosing. Your leaving anyways.

The Hills of Afghanistan and Pakistan are always looking for good men.
Iran is welcoming parties as well.
Syria would be hospitable. They share similiar Views.

I think the Babylon Express, would be canceled now, all things considered.


These, there is no hope for. Nothing will satisfy them, unless of course, Israel is pushed into the MED. This is not likely to happen, and I honestly believe, any attempts by Any State in the Mid East, would be folly. I think the Mid East States also understand this now. They where Chastized in 67. The Next time may tend to reflect Vengence.

As for "Who's Side" is God on.

I personally believe he would be for all sides. He is the Same, (God, Jehovah, Allah).

You see, I do not find Israel decrees God is on their side. They have serious concerns, but the majority of the actions taken are Causal. Take the current matter in Gaza for example. This has been the History. And nothing will change this.

As for Average hard Working Joe Arab, living in his pen in the West Bank, I think he only wishes to put Food on the Table and ensure Health Care is avialable for him and his loved ones. A House, a Job, and a Life would be his concerns

It's the Radical, that seems to have God's Approval, (according to the radicals), and unfortunately, these Radicals are Terrorists. And with Sales men telling them about 70 Virgins, then that makes it all the easier. Throw in a $25000.00 USD Cash Bonus for the remaining family memebers and you have that Killing Machine. Screaming, "Praise be to Allah" and then ripping or triggering the Device.

I was in Israel in the 89, and even then, after the discussion of Blame and Fault had been expressed, the basic survival switch was turned on. They (the Arab's I spoke with) mostly want nothing more than an simple life. Palestine as a Homeland is a Dream, but this comes from the Pressurized Environment they live in. The Leaders Spew this as the only accepted view, and not being compliant with that view, is deemed traitorous, and death just comes sooner.

I was detained three times in Israel, in two weeks. Held for an Hour or two, and Questioned, but set free. This was in the West Bank. (Bethleham, Tiberius, and near Masada/Dead Sea.)

I was being accused of inticing riots, causing unrest amoungst the Arabs. In Tiberius it was the IDF that questioned me. I was sitting with about 8 or 10 Young Arabs at about 11-12PM drinking (I was) at the Bar. Certainly at times, the Conversation would tend to be quite vocal, since I will speak my mind. Some did not appreciate it, but the Majority came around to talking. But while in IDF hands, I was advised three of those at my Table where infact Terrorists. Known and Under Surveilance for attacks at Settlements.

But the Majority of those I spoke with, were not, nor are they happy. They have nothing. They only wish to be able to do something. 15 Years later, nothing has changed one bit for them. That is what I would wish to see occur.

And as for the banter here, this is no concern to me. Stick and Stones.

I do bite back, if provoked, but I have not seen anything from anyone that warrents concern.

It is a Volitile Topic. That should be understood. It Enflames Passions. This should be expected. It's a Detestable Situation. This is no surprise.

It has been created for exactly these reason, and this is why I am personally sick and tired of the matter.

And for Don.

I mean you no distress, nor Ill will. Please relax. Yes I wrote that. Yes I believe that. No it wasn't specific to you. It's the Topic, and I trust it will always remain the Topic. So remember, this during your future reviews.

Your have expressed Valid arguements, although I do think these have been tried over and over again, but your position is as valids as anyone elses. Maybe somewhere in the Midst of all of this, Views of Action can be constructed from many sources.

But I have no delusions about everyone, being happy. If 51% become happy, as a result of Anything done here or elsewhere, that is better than it has been for 50 plus years.

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by donwhite
(1) Does anyone think for one New York minute that if the Palestinians did not commit acts of violence there would even be talks about talks?



I am quite sure there are many fanatics out there who do. I personally understand that people having their land ripped away from them would be extremely hostile, and find themselves without a choice. Its not like the UN or US had stood up and said. "Okay look we will give it back or find you a new homeland"

As I asked before What IS the answer?




(2) Apparently newborns “bond” to the place of their birth. Like the Arctic tern, the longest migrating bird. It always returns to the place of its birth.


Well, I for one am not like an Artic Tern. My family left our homeland after Hitler played his war games. I went back once in the 70's just to see some reletaves and see it for myself as I was 7 when we left. Nothing there for me. I am sure many n America feel the same. {walks away mutterin "Tern indeed!"



(4) The Gilgamish Noah Flood myth won’t save the world.

True it didn't last time either. But my question still stands "What will it take?



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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I think

#1 All documents pertinent to the formation of Israel (including all declassified memorandum and personal notes) should be re-evaluated

#2 I believe that the country should be split down the Middle as a result of the documentation being revisited

#3 Israel should be enticed to join the NPT, any and all Chemical Biological treatise,IAEA monitoring of any and all Nuclear sites within Israel for a period of 5 years with spot checks following in perpetuity, as well as dismantling and unveiling of its Nuclear arsenal

#4 The cessastion of routine political assasinations/kidnappings

#5 The cessastion of using a "Black list" of Palestinian citizens that fled the country and had their properties illegally confiscated and used without compensation.

#6 Reparations to be paid by the Israeli government to all citizens of Palestine for all crimes against humanity commited against them by the Israeli government

#7 Removal of the Apartheid wall

#8 Restoration of all infrastructure and confiscated farms and property to be paid by Israel

#9 Dismantling and restructuring of the Mossad agency

#10 The Right of Return to all Palestinian citizens that were either forced to flee or
were kicked out of the country.


As a result of the fairness you will see a big change from not only palestinians but neighboring arab countries as well as even here in the USA if America ceases supporting the wrongdoings of the Israeli government. In making the corrections that should have been done long ago it will improve our image amongst the Arab community tenfold. Our oil problems will not be as harsh and Israel's economy will flourish even more if oil and other resources are easily attained and investments are not as risky due to outbreaks of terror and war.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Our oil problems will not be as harsh and Israel's economy will flourish even more if oil and other resources are easily attained and investments are not as risky due to outbreaks of terror and war.


Hello Pieman.

The Monkey is X'ed Out. What's up with that?

How are you? Trust you and your Family are well.

Can I ask.

What about the Terrorists Harboured in the Civilian Population within the West Bank a Gaza and sponsered by the Nieghbouring Arab Nations? We just let them go?

And in all honesty my friend, Do your really believe the above I left in your quote?

Cedeing to the whims of Terror, only allows it a Platform to show, how mighty they are.

"Look, the Zionist Dogs are from our land. Now we fixate on the Infidels, in the rest of our lands!".

Ciao

Shane



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 04:20 AM
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Shane
it is not he Brother Arabs who put the Palestinians in jail, but Israel. It is Israel who controls every help for them, barely allowing them to breathe. Why do you keep on saying they should go to neighboring countries while they have a country? Let Israel give them that country and quit caging them and they'll be O.K. Others don't have to carry loads because of Israel. They have their own problems.



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by Shane
Can I ask.

What about the Terrorists Harboured in the Civilian Population within the West Bank a Gaza and sponsered by the Nieghbouring Arab Nations? We just let them go?



My server is down and my images are on it. Hopefully will be back up again soon.

As far as my believing this to be true..Absolutely. There has not been one arrest or trial for war-crimes for any Israeli criminal ever. There are over 10000 palestinians sitting in Israeli jails both innocent as well as guilty parties. Common Israeli settlers routinely attack Palestinians and even outsiders without any repurcussions whatsoever. Police and soldiers turn their heads.



A member of the World Council of Churches (WCC) Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel (EAPPI) has been attacked by a woman settler in the Tel Rumeida district of Hebron, 23rd June 2006.

In the region a scheme has been set up where Christian volunteers accompany children to school. Duduzile Masango, one South African ecumenical accompanier was attacked by an elderly settler woman, who pulled a towel tightly around her head


Source: Christiantoday.com

Reports also suggest that a soldier was also at the scene and did nothing to stop the attack.

Following the attacks, the police were notified, but Masango was told that her testimony was not trustworthy and was abruptly rejected.


These scenes are commonplace. It needs to stop.


As far as neighboring arab countries, well there will be no reason for them to do anything if the Palestinians are back in their own country and living problem free.
As far as criminals go, well this is the way I look at it, Australia was once a Penal colony and now its one of the best countries with some of the best people on the planet. What was once a land full of criminals is now a major world power with ciitizens from every corner of the world. Israel has harbored or vouched for many various financial embezzlers, stalinist war criminals and even murderers of american people.(Eddie Antar:embezzler Crazy Eddies electronics , Marc Rich: embezzler junk bonds, Samuel Sheinbein: murderer maryland, Solomon Morel: war crimes Poland,Nachman Dusanski : war crimes Lithuania Rainai Forest massacre ) . Lets not forget the infamous Baruch Goldstein who was buried as a martyr in Israel for killing and wounding many arabs. I think it would be a great show of humanitarianism to release the innocent people and keep only the dangerous ones that have actually killed people. It would also free up a big financial burden on the Israeli citizens footing the bill.


Pie



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 07:25 AM
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This "Dispute" has been on-gong since 1948. 58 years. The US has intervened directly only once, in the 1956 Suez War when the UK allied with France and later, Israel, sought to re-establish its control over the Suez Canal. Pres. Eisenhower “ordered” the triple alliance out of Egypt. All three countries were heavily dependant on US aid at that time. And Europe was totally dependant on the US for protection from the perceived threat posed by the USSR.

For reasons never made clear officially, the Israeli’s IDF attacked the unarmed spy ship USS Liberty during the 1967 War, killing 34 of the 297 US personnel onboard the converted WW2 freighter. It is now widely accepted the attack was intentional but was finally called off after attracting too much attention. Israel had attacked Egypt - preemptively - but was publicly claiming it was reacting to an Egyptian attack. Further, it was Israel’s secret plan to attack Jordan and then Syria in that order, despite lack of any overt belligerency on either country's part.

Fast-forward to 2006.



posted by Shane

Can I ask.
What about the Terrorists Harbored by the Civilian Population within the West Bank and Gaza and sponsored by the Neighboring Arab Nations? We just let them go?




One man’s terrorist is another man’s hero. What are you going to do about that, S? Anywhere the general population supports or at least tacitly supports, or as in Iraq, tolerates, opposition forces, it is nearly impossible for outside armies to weed out the guerillas. It is pretty obvious Israel has adopted a cruel policy to make life so unbearable for the Palestinians that they will leave. That policy will not work. It is short sighted and it will prove counter-productive. It is also close to genocide and it must be with some great irony to see Israel practicing genocide. The LaKud and its successor parties have lost their way. The Labor party has not had good leadership since Rabin was assassinated. Israel is becoming an international embarrassment. A pariah state. Huddled behind their own wall. Hmm?

OTOH, I am coming to the POV that the real US policy is to continue the conditions that spawn turmoil in the Middle East. I say that in part because I believe the US could have had any solution it wanted after the 1973 Yom Kippur War, and maybe it still could. If that observation is true, then it follows what is on the ground today is what America wants.




posted by ThePieMaN

There has not been one arrest or trial for war-crimes for any Israeli criminal ever. There are over 10,000 Palestinians sitting in Israeli jails. Israeli settlers attack Palestinians and even outsiders without any repercussions. Police and soldiers turn their heads.



In the Tel Rumeida district of Hebron, a scheme had been set up by the World Council of Churches where Christian volunteers accompany Arab children going to school. On 23rd June 2006, South African Duduzile Masango, was attacked by an elderly Israeli settlement woman, who pulled a towel tightly around her head. Source: Christiantoday.com [Edited by Don W]


Reports also said an IDF soldier was at the scene but did nothing to stop the attack. Following the attack, the police were notified, but Masango was told that her testimony was not trustworthy and it was arbitrarily rejected.

Israel has harbored or vouched for many various financial embezzlers, Stalinist war criminals and even murderers of American people. I think it would be a great show of humanitarianism to release the innocent Palestinian people and keep only the ones convicted of actually killing people. It would also free up a big burden on the Israeli citizens footing the bill. Pie [Edited by Don W]



Well, don’t forget Pie, the US sends Israel $3 billion a year. Once that was about 50% of the IDF annual budget, but now it is much less of the IDF budget.

As was brought out during the Iran Contra scandal - say hello Ollie North! - which happened on President Reagan's watch - and who sadly offered "I don’t remember” to a half dozen hard questions at his North trial deposition - the US has “ways and means” of doing things outside the normal channels. And with the GOP Congress unwilling to make any inquirers into the Executive Branch conduct or misconduct, who knows what is really going on today. As Frist and Hastert joke, “Oversight?” Is that one word or two words?



[edit on 7/6/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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I think Shane may have a point about Gaza, what use is that tiny strip of land going to be? I can't see it being part of a viable palestinian state. I would seriously consider an exchange of land, Israel gets Gaza and the newly formed Palestinian state could have an equivalent tract of land to the south of the West Bank.

For such a small state to succeed in this situation I would think a contiguous land mass would be a must. Not to mention the difficulties in access rights you would avoid.



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 08:06 AM
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Reminder: Please keep it civil, folks. It's starting to get way too personal in here. Attack the argument, not the IQ or integrity or knowledge of the other person.



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Byrd
Reminder: Please keep it civil, folks. It's starting to get way too personal in here. Attack the argument, not the IQ or integrity or knowledge of the other person.


Yes, All.

Please be reminded of the Byrd's Cautions.

I have nothing against anyone here, and in no way see this as a topic that should devolve to the Lowest Common Denominator of a Slime Forum.

But, I did not think this was "Uncivil" Byrd, and had thought everyone was keeping the matter to the problem, rather than personal, but thats from "Observing" how other such posts had devolved.

And it is solutions, we really wish to address.

Past transgressions by all involved, can be dealt with in a multitude of various Topics that wish to live in that past.

This is not a Concern I care about here, nor should it be continued to be bantied.

I appreciate Don's Comments, as well as others, who would like to remind us of these past problems, and of course, Pieman has his views, which are totally acceptable and understandable due to his Proud Background. I applaud everyone, as far as I can see, for taking part, and look forward to views for the future.

The Past is done, and should rest in peace.

And Pieman, Funny


What about the Terrorists on the Other side??? Do they become accountable and should they face similiar fates?

Ciao

Shane





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