Seattle mother arrested for "kidnapping" her own baby to seek alternative treatments

Unfortunately, they almost always wind up being 'clinical tests'.

You know... where they write the findings first, THEN the test scenarios.



I will give you three guesses what the results ALWAYS are.

It's an absolute embarassment to anyone that really cares or to anyone paying attention. To the 'medical establishment' it's the golden goose. Kaching!

All of the Fed organizations have been exposed as being OWNED by BIG PHARMA. Do any of us really need to document this state of affairs again?

Do I really need to go on? At this point everyone can probably recite what I'm going to say from memory.

You suggest that I'm trolling you, golemina, while I sit quietly here, waiting for an informative answer to some fairly simple and straightforward questions.

Look at our posts side by side: who's trolling whom?

I think you have made it abundantly clear that you have no real case to make on this issue, just a lot of accusations and bouncing grinning smileys to fling about.

If I have helped you in making that fact evident to the general public, why, you're welcome.

If parents are held responsible for childrens actions until they are 18 (US) then why shouldn't a parent make a medical treatment decision?

I don't agree with her idea of treatment but nonetheless it is her child and until the child is 18 years of age, it falls upon the parent to take care of the child (unless the parent is crazy).

Sure it's a crappy thing to stay out of it and have a child go through treatment which may not work than go through a proven treatment (is there such a thing?).

It comes down to who do you want to be responsible for the children......parents or the government?

Unfortunatly, this really doesnt surprise me. Do Dr.'s manipulate people to do what ever they want? YES. It happened to me. I had my oldest son when I was 19. He had a few problems in his first year. At about 6 weeks, he came down with RSV. They put him in the hospital for 3 days. (I am now finding that odd due to so many others who were sent home with treatments rather than admitted). On the last day, the Dr. was too busy to call and send us home. There was a snow storm comming in, and I wanted to get out of there. The nurses called him and I was told that he said "Quit asking or I'll have you stay another night". Then - same Dr.'s office - when he was about 5 months old, he spit up A LOT. So the Dr. insisted I take him to the hospital to have several tests run. I said I was nervous about it, it didnt seem like that big of a problem, and I wanted to wait and get a second opinion. I was then told. that If I didnt agree to let them run what ever test they felt like running on him, that they would make sure the insurance co. would not cover any of the Dr. visits. I obviously could not afford that so I had to let him have the tests. It was aweful. Turned out he needed some cereal in his formula. I found out later that they - the Dr's - take advantage of the insurance co's demanding what ever they want, and the insurance co's pay them. I have changed pediatritians many times for similar reasons. I now have a very honest Dr.. AND, I have found out with in the last year, that judging from the records, and the good health my son is in now, he did not have RSV. It was just a cold.

So, sure, Dr.'s are now taking even more measures to antimidate and manipulate so they can make big bucks.

I just wish we knew what could be done about it. What ARE our rights?

Your bias is here for all to see.

I would be more than happy to actually talk about something...

NOT engage in endless rhetorical loops... Where you somehow believe you have laid some burden of proof on me or homeopathy or alternative medicine in general.



I will tell you straight I couldn't care less what your opinion about any of the information I have advanced in the various ATS forums/threads. I certainly don't really have ANY interest in somehow trying to coerce you into some type of position of knowledge/wisdom.

Posture (in vague generalities ) all you want...

The alternative medicine community has ALREADY basically bypassed DISEASE BASED medicine. Most of us are quite comfortable with our roles in this most macabre of plays...

We TOTALLY regret the unneeded MAIMING and KILLING of SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE by the hand puppets of BIG PHARMA...

But hey what's a golem to do?



(Any good suggestions always welcome and appreciated here/via U2U).

Your options if this is actually a discussion...

Go to the thread where we can talk about 'medical science' and its absolute lack of science.

We can start talk about...

Can you dig it?



[edit on 13-7-2006 by golemina]

I will tell you straight I couldn't care less what your opinion about any of the information I have advanced in the various ATS forums/threads.

I'm sorry, but I really want a link to this. I don't recall anything coming out of your posts other than verbal abuse and bouncing smiley faces.

Mariella

medical help! or else!!!! another judge making a medical desicion for someone else.
whats the deal with forcing vaccines on people, and forcing people to get medical treatments for non contagious diseases. For example there's a 16 year old boy who doesn't want to do chemo therapy anymore on the news this morning, and the state government has stepped into stop him from going to alternate healthcare. he's going to attemtp to try herbal suppliments from mexico. his parents say he's old enough to make his own medical decisions. Why is the government even involved. Hospitals really seem to be scarier and scarier latley.

www.wtop.com...

I heard on a radio program about a year ago, that florida forces extra vaccines on kids for public school. I believe california may have done the same thing, can anyoen direct me towards the autism and vaccines rates for california?

Do hospitals really have an adjenda for making people sicker so they make more money? Seems like were all living longer with medical care, or is it due to more health awareness?

I sold vacuums for 9 years door to door, some of the cleanest houses had the sickes most allergy ridden kids. I'm starting to believe we all need a little dirt to be truly healthy.

Originally posted by bsl4doc

I will tell you straight I couldn't care less what your opinion about any of the information I have advanced in the various ATS forums/threads.

I'm sorry, but I really want a link to this. I don't recall anything coming out of your posts other than verbal abuse and bouncing smiley faces.

Mariella

I'll second that. Golemina - apart from upping the inane bouncy face count by about a million you add nothing to these threads at all. Your posts are almost entirely free of any meaningful content. Astyanax has tried to ask you very straightforward questions which you have totally avoided trying to answer, apart from with the usual

I sold vacuums for 9 years door to door, some of the cleanest houses had the sickes most allergy ridden kids. I'm starting to believe we all need a little dirt to be truly healthy.

Many allergy experts would agree with you and much current research is looking into this theory. I personally think there is definitely something to it.

while i love raking in the points,, i cant believe this thread is still going....

All this mother wanted to do was seek alternative methods, imo, and was not allowed to do that.
I am sure, unless she wanted her child to die, she would have probably dont both conventional and unconventional, had she been given a chance. The child was NOT at deaths door at the time this happened.
The governmental agencies want too much power over kids, and there are those of you eagerly wanting to comply.

Every illness can potentially kill you. So, therefore, that means that you have no choice now? If you tell your doctors you want to check around, they'll just take your kid?? Hell, why not. Medicine is such a trustworthy profession, anyway.
Not only do they rob us blind, but they're involved in insane testing, pharmaceutical companies like Bayer sending infected stuff overseas, the whole works! NOW, they're part of the NWO- lets take them..thats it...if they dont agree, we'll just take them.

It's an interesting subject dgtempe, I think that's why it's still going. Medical ethics is a minefield and there is rarely a clearly black or white, right or wrong answer - just a lot of grey areas.

Whether you agree with the Dr's decision or not I don't really see what the New World Order (whatever that is) has to do with it. The Dr in this case may have been too heavy handed and taken a "Dr knows best" approach, however I'm sure they were acting in a way that they thought was best for the child, not because they were acting under orders from the NWO. Even if some ancient Elite did rule the world, I doubt they would give a crap one way or the other about the health and treatment of this child.

I have seen rooms full of health workers (here in the UK you would never get a single Dr making a decision like this - it would involve all sorts of professionals including social workers) having agonising debates about such cases. Over-ruling a parent like this is never taken lightly in our health system, and I can't imagine it is in the US, where people are much more likely to bring lawyers into it.

Bls4doc and FatherLukeDuke... and admire your transparent strategy of getting this thread shut down also... by this some might say somewhat nasty personal rancor...

Sorry guys, but I'm simply immune to this goofy personal attack stuff... All it's going to get you is one of these...



Psst. If you look all around you people are OnTopic and providing concrete examples of the basic theme underlying DGTempes fine thread.

But... hey, I am here to help... Do you need for me to explain something to you FatherLukeDuke? I'm sorry about your thread memory problems Bsl4doc... Have you tried balancing your body PH? I've heard that helps people with failing cognitive abilities.



I'm sorry... I AM a bad man.

Wow golem, another content free post that ends in yet another insult:

I've heard that helps people with failing cognitive abilities

You really do add to these boards.
/sarcasm

You say that I'm trying to get the thread closed? How exactly?

You might have noticed that in my last that I politely engaged with dgtempe to discuss the issues she raised in her original post. I also managed to do it without the use of bouncing smiley icons or implying anything about anyone's cognitive abilities.

>I've heard that helps people with failing cognitive abilities

I can only report as I see it.



Our good doctors comment towards me was...

>I don't recall anything coming out of your posts other than verbal abuse and bouncing smiley faces.

At the risk of somehow blaspheming an MDs VERY SELECTIVE interpretations of what has been discussed with threads in which she was present...

We have discussed such things as...

- Autism remedies.
- Arthritis remedies.
- 'Acid reflux'/indigestion remedies...

(the list is too large to repeat over and over and over...

just do a search on golem's 'medical' threads... I am a geyser of help. AND if you don't see anything to help with yer situation, just ask... I certainly AIN'T shy )

The problem FatherLukeDuke is ole golem is just poking some well deserved fun at our good doctors glaringly false statement...

Look FatherLukeDuke... golem is going to talk about 'bed wetting'... Alternative medicine style...

If your child wets the bed, don't spank your child, accuse the child of being willful, engage in some ridiculous limiting of liquid intake scheme, put the child on some 'overactive bladder' ( ! ) medication... etc. etc. etc.

Get a simple lower mid back adjustment by ANY chiropracter!

Tada! No more bed wetting... It's a miracle!

No. No. No. Placebo effect!!!



I just love/you've just got to love the 'Placebo effect'.

Just another one of those little tidbits...

(Just between you and me, I'm told it's some type of sympathetic lower body nerve loop thingies. And as impossible as it would be to prove 'it' in one of them there double-blind test thingermajobs... You knerr... one of them scientifically credible physiological, physical and chemical terms dodads...

Ah... No. It JUST works.



Lordie! Lordie! Lordie! It's GOOD to be me!

Do you start to see the 'problem' FatherLukeDuke?

Originally posted by short
I sold vacuums for 9 years door to door, some of the cleanest houses had the sickes most allergy ridden kids. I'm starting to believe we all need a little dirt to be truly healthy.

I still point back to George Carlin.. The immune system needs germs to practice on! Otherwise it becomes weak, and then doesn't know what to do when a new germ enters the system... That's the whole point to having a friggin' immune system!

The healthiest person I've ever known was my Opa (german for Grandfather).. he bathes once a week "whether it's needed or not", and works outside on the land. Yes, he smells.. but he's healthier than any member of my american family..

The name of the capitalist game is profit.. it's more profitable to train people to buy soap and other bacteria killing agents.. then sell them the medicine that makes them feel better..

A test -- don't take cold medicine the next time you get a cold. Drink orange juice. See how long it lasts.. Stop going in for your yearly flu shot.. I haven't gotten the shot in at least 4 years, and haven't gotten the flu bug since!
Maybe it's just me.. may be.. very well might be. But... something's fishy in this consumer market...

And this ploy to force people into 'conventional' medicine seems like an extension of that 'profit above all' mentality. I hope that the doctor's have the very best intentions.. I really do!
I just highly doubt that we, the people, can trust the medical institutes...

Diseria,

If it were not for the flu shot, i would have been deathly sick all winter. As it happens, i never got more than a stomach bug. Works for me.

People got to go with what they believe in and what they think will cure them. If your best cure is standing on your head and sucking lemons, then by all means. It is nice, though to be able to figure it out without being chastised for doing this or doing that.

I know my body. I am my own doctor, and when i go to the dr's i tell him what medicine to give me. And guess what???? Its never failed. The doctor recognizes what i'm asking for is the best, and i know its the best for me. Maybe i'm just gifted, huh?

DGTempe

Well, if nothing else, I'm glad that the flu shot works for someone! It's gotten me nothing but sick.. and as a result, whenever I feel like I'm getting sick, I just flood my system with orange juice and nine times out of ten it's gone. (On a completely random and oddball sidenote.. I *hate* needles, primarily from getting all those shots for this and that.. but I *love* getting/having piercings and tattoos.. strange, eh?)

I do like, and agree with, your general philosophy.. What works for some doesn't work for others. I can agree with that because, well, that's how it is!
But humans don't like things outside of boxes, outside of categories.. and I think that's the pitfall that we've set ourselves up for... this need for 'normal'.. (whatever that is)
Why doesn't that same philosophy fly when it comes to general medicine? Specifically, (trying to stick to the original topic) when it comes to children? How come they are suddenly uber special?



Why is there a line drawn between adults and children? between parents and their children? I understand the very distinct difference between discipline and abuse.. that, at this point in human history, should be abundantly clear. I don't understand how it's abuse if I want to try a different method of treatment...
How many children don't even know who their parents are?? Isn't that a form of psychological abuse? The abandonment issue? Why hasn't that had such a fuss made over it?

The whole situation seems wacked..

Originally posted by Diseria
this need for 'normal'.. (whatever that is)

It's a setting on my clothes dryer.

Just chipping in here, but I am another that cannot handle a flu shot. I got it every year while in the military and got sick for a week afterward every year. I got out of the military in 1994 and haven't had one of the shots since. I have never had a cold, flu or fever in the last 12 years. I am just one of the ones that it doesn't work for or it made things worse for me.

Like you both said, different strokes for different folks.

JDub

LINK

NORFOLK, Virginia (July 22) - A judge ruled Friday that a 16-year-old boy fighting to use alternative treatment for his cancer must report to a hospital by Tuesday and accept treatment that doctors deem necessary, the family's attorney said.

The judge also found Starchild Abraham Cherrix's parents were neglectful for allowing him to pursue alternative treatment of a sugar-free, organic diet and herbal supplements supervised by a clinic in Mexico, lawyer John Stepanovich said.

Stepanovich said he will ask a higher court on Monday to stay enforcement of the order, which requires the parents to take Abraham to Children's Hospital of the King's Daughters in Norfolk and to give the oncologist their written legal consent to treat their son for Hodgkin's disease.

Man, I don't know what to think about this.

I am leaning toward a 16 year old kid being able to make a knowledgable decision with the input of his parents. Evidently the court doesn't agree with me.

JDub

LINK

ACCOMAC, Va. (AP) -- A judge ruled Tuesday that a 16-year-old cancer patient who has refused conventional medical treatment does not have to report to a hospital as previously ordered and scheduled a trial to settle the dispute.

Taylor also ended joint custody of Abraham between his parents and social services officials.

Carl Bundick, an attorney for the department, told the judge the department would not object, provided a new trial takes place quickly.

Well, the family got what it wished... for now. They will face the same scrutiny under the new trial when it comes about.

JDub