Why there is a Hell

As to the original question question "Why is there a Hell" taken to a down to earth reference I ask...

If there were no concept of hell, where the unjust would meet rightful punishment, would 80% [my estimate] of the followers of a religion still follow? Mankind has it within him to choose right or wrong. Persoannly I think most would take the percieved easier path of wrong if they didn't have the "fear of God or Hell" hanging over them.

I know this may be a simplistic view, and not hell as you describe, but it is a question non the less of concern to the average mortal

I think hell is where some choose to go. they want to control, and well, once you die, I think you have to at least admit who reallly has the control of all things. they would rather rule others, than surrender to the rulership of God.

So, well over time, they have managed to shield themselves somewhat from God's influence. But like the original poster has pointed out, it is God that nurtures and feeds our spirits, souls or whatever you want to call that bit of us that continues on. so, once shielded from this nurturing, these souls find themselves wanting for something, not really sure just what it is that they want. they find that although far from an equal substitute to God's light, well, the pain, suffering, fear, and other emotions they can stir up from others around them will suffice.

of course, the same thing plays itself out on the pysical plane every day on planet earth, so who knows, maybe hell is very much alive and well on this planet...

I agree with Dawnstar to a point. When you say people rather rule others than submit to God's rule, I was astonished. Great sentence. People don't realize that if we don't submit to god's rule, and the spirit stays locked forever ,your life will dwindle down the path of hell.

Hell is not on this planet. Hell is a state of mind. Natural suffering caused by poor decision not of the spirit.

BTW, maybe hell does exist on this planet...here in NY. I can't wait to escape it myself Dawnstar !! (joke)

For the last time I was not askigna question I am stating "Why there is a hell.'

key grammar is this little guy.. .

not a "?" or a "!"


[edit on 7/3/2006 by Mizar]

Oops my bad... slip of the tongue... sorry. I did hear you the first time

[edit on 4-7-2006 by zorgon]

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by zorgon
My question over the years has always been why is the God of any other race or group any less valid? Allah, Buddha, whatever you call Him

By The Way, Buddha was NOT a God, and Allah IS the same God as Yahweh, it actually just means "God" in Arabic.

you are correct about the buddha and buddhism is more of a philosphy....a better way to live sort of thing.

There are two major schools of thought on buddhism....

Theravada.... which is the older one, takes the view of buddhism as being a philosphy.

Mahayana... makes the buddha to be more of a deity.

the buddhist thought is very different from any western theology you will encounter, Id almost view it as atheistic in some places.

However in buddhism there is no death.... thich nhat hanh teaches or explains it this way... does a wave stop becoming water when it is no longer a wave? Things only change form (this is also a scientific principal discovered thousands of years before in buddhism)...so a human will be a human until death, then in death they will be reaborbed into the earth and eventually reborn as something else.

one thing buddhism teaches is that there is always change, nothing is constant, so in a way everything is a cycle or wheel. kinda like the dharma wheel (see the relationship?) Trees bloom and flower in the spring and summer and die in the fall and winter and the cycle begin again. Buddhists believe life and death are a cycle and the only difference is the time frames.

in buddhism death is the ultimate achievement as corny as that sounds because you will have true nirvana. a state of knowing no pain or suffering of course no joy either.

of course this depends on the school of buddhism...some say you will be reborn until you are enlightened enough to break the cycle of rebirth.

buddhism is open to different views of the teachings....

the 8 fold path is a guide to living more fully and peacefully...who is to say what happens after death.

a wise man hopes for the best, but prepares himself for all possibilities.

the bible character Job asked to go to "hell"

why ? he knew what Hell was is why

Hell is the grave - where you rest in death . all people go to Hell when the die

Hell is "Sheol" (hebrew) , or "Hades" (Greek) , both mean the Grave of Mankind


Job was suffering & he wanted death to take him to end his suffering , he pleaded to be allowed to go to "Hell"



[edit on 4-7-2006 by Brad_cf]

StreetCorner

have ya's gotten your stadium yet???

ya know, I'm kind of hesitant to make any c ontact with the state government up there. I'm afraid that they'll think of some off the wall reason to drag me back up there. after all they need someone up there to take on that massive debt that they've accumulated in our names!! they can't let us all escape!!

you'd be surprised how many refugees we run across down here from NY.



The more I think about it, the more I kind of think that the story of lucifer points the path to hell....it is the story of the fallen man. he didn't want to serve in heaven, so he chose to rule in hell. one cannot serve god and rule men (or women) at the same time. in one case, you are facing God, looking for his direction, in the other, you turn your back on him, and are facing you subject, directing them.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by WolfofWar
By The Way, Buddha was NOT a God, and Allah IS the same God as Yahweh, it actually just means "God" in Arabic.

Quite true about Buddha,and I do know that. And as I posted in my last reply the Muslims do not dispute that fact. Actually only from close minded Christians have I heard otherwise

It is the closed minded that say Allah is the same as the Christian God. Check out the character of the god of the Muslims, and the results of their worship of it, and then compare it with the God of the Bible.

Wanting to make all religions the same is a hallmark of the New Age, but it basically boils down to a buffet of religion: pick and choose what you like from the samples, and if you don't like what you picked, leave it on the plate and go back for another selection. Like any greedy buffet artist, load up your plate with all you could possibly eat, and leave most of it, since it will not suit your tastes once you get to it.

It is a man-made smorgasbord, and you are the god maker, just pick which one you will give pseudo-homage to, cuz we all know you and you alone are "really" god.

You MUST be to be able to say that this or that is okay about the true God, but this and that, I just don't like. "I'll choose blessing and honor but not obeisance."

But one day, all that will not be enough; the knee will bow and the tongue, willing or not, will declare that Jesus Christ is Lord.

but maybe it is the same god, Allah, and Jahova...

Allah is very much like the God of the old testament, ya know, the God of the sinners of earth....

whereas, the Christians approach God through a mediator, Christ....and when they reach God, they are not sinners, but are pure.

think about it...

Originally posted by DoNotBelieveThem
When your dead, your dead! There is no after life, no hell, no heaven... That's my opinion, then again I am an atheist! All the best to you!

Common sense statements such as the above quote are becoming a rare phenomenan and I wholeheartedly agree with it. I'm not an athiest, theist or agnostic. I only claim to be a realist. I examine logic, sift for some perception of rock solid fact(s), access the possiblities and draw a conclusion.
All christians and other affiliated faiths need a crutch to make sense (LOL) of their lives through religion and if it helps them that's a bonus. Others dwell on the extra terrestial myths and neither have any irrefutable scientific fact to back any of their beliefs into reality.

Originally posted by dawnstar
but maybe it is the same god, Allah, and Jahova...

Allah is very much like the God of the old testament, ya know, the God of the sinners of earth....

whereas, the Christians approach God through a mediator, Christ....and when they reach God, they are not sinners, but are pure.

think about it...

Sure is something to think about, dawnstar, never saw it like that before.

I remember though that it was God Who sent Jesus, because He "so loved the world". It doesn't seem quite likely that God would accept the worship of Muslims who believe Him to directly command killing those who "worship Him in spirit and in Truth". As John 4:23 says "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him."

Just another word about your post, it is not the sinners that are pure when they reach God through Jesus Christ, but Jesus Christ as their "new man" who is pure. Just terminology I think, though, is the only real difference between that and what you said.

modern day science, cannot explain every experience a person can have. sooner or later, your realist beliefs might be challenged to accept the illogical, impossible, or unknown.....this is the fountain from which faith, myth and legend spring from.

much of what was once attributed as being "God" has since been explained, but not all. what happens after death is still in the unexplained category. no one knows. you have "faith" that there is nothing after, just like others have "faith" there is something else.
people have ufo abduction experiences, see shadow people, have voices in their head threatening to kill one who's close to them, see their dead loved ones, have visions, whatever....there is no logical, scientific answer to such experiences...that's all they have, a choice as to what they should invest their "faith" into.

both the muslims and the jews tend to be more under the old laws of the new testament, ya know and eye for an eye, kill the witches, adulterers, don't allow them to be amoung them, ect....

there's no room for forgivenenss, or at least I don't think there is. if one is caught doing something, the punishment must be carried out, or else the whole village has sinned and will face the wrath.

it is quite possible that this is a different "God" or lord whatever, since well, up until the time of Christ, it was Satan who susposedly ruled the earth, and God kind of just sent prophets.in every now and then , who usually died quickly after giving their message. and had a few chosen that he favored.

I imagine it could be either way....God responds to those who reek with sin in a different way than he does those who pass through Christ, and are therefore cleansed. or, it wasn't till Christ's arrival that the seat of Satan, as lord, was overthrown. although, if this is the case, there is still signs of a war for it going on here on earth...

Originally posted by dawnstar
both the muslims and the jews tend to be more under the old laws of the new testament, ya know and eye for an eye, kill the witches, adulterers, don't allow them to be amoung them, ect....

But Christians do this too (if not to an extreme, at times.)

They lynched Gays and protest against them, they burnt people at the stake, they're aggressively hostile against any blasphemor or none christian.

looks like the same god to me.

Originally posted by dawnstar

The more I think about it, the more I kind of think that the story of lucifer points the path to hell....it is the story of the fallen man. he didn't want to serve in heaven, so he chose to rule in hell. one cannot serve god and rule men (or women) at the same time. in one case, you are facing God, looking for his direction, in the other, you turn your back on him, and are facing you subject, directing them.

Hmmmm interesting. It does sound like that may be the point.

So I suppose I have to relinquish my crown

As to "Which God is right" or that the grave is the end... I have just one thing to say. It doesn't matter, so long as you live your live as an honorable, righteous person. If what Mizar says holds true, then you will be given the chance to face the truth AFTER you pass, and if you truly are just going to be worm food, then it doesn't matter, does it?

But the path of Light is just so much better... and in case your soul reaches "judgement day" no matter who is doing the judgement, seems to me being able to stand up and say "I did no wrong" would be a good thing.

Originally posted by WolfofWar

Originally posted by dawnstar
both the muslims and the jews tend to be more under the old laws of the new testament, ya know and eye for an eye, kill the witches, adulterers, don't allow them to be amoung them, ect....

But Christians do this too (if not to an extreme, at times.)

They lynched Gays and protest against them, they burnt people at the stake, they're aggressively hostile against any blasphemor or none christian.

looks like the same god to me.

Now, because it is Christianity that is the subject of your diatribe, to demand proof might seem too "harsh", though if it were any other subject there would already be a scream of "Prove it!"

I can't really speak for muslims or jews since I'm neither, but I can say that Christians are those who follow Christ, not those who lynch, burn people, or are "aggressively hostile" towards non-Christians. If those who do such things claim they are Christians and acting under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they are either deceived by the enemy of souls, or they are liars.

Blasphemers are really best left to God to deal with, but sometimes it is just too much to bear to hear the ungodly things ungodly men speak against God the Just, Good, Righteous and Holy, and say nothing.

And though no one need fight for God, we are told to "contend for the faith". (Jude 3) So if the blasphemy is lying against the truth, then we are certainly within our own boundaries to contend with the lies.

Originally posted by curiousity

I can't really speak for muslims or jews since I'm neither, but I can say that Christians are those who follow Christ, not those who lynch, burn people, or are "aggressively hostile" towards non-Christians. If those who do such things claim they are Christians and acting under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they are either deceived by the enemy of souls, or they are liars.

Blasphemers are really best left to God to deal with, but sometimes it is just too much to bear to hear the ungodly things ungodly men speak against God the Just, Good, Righteous and Holy, and say nothing.

And though no one need fight for God, we are told to "contend for the faith". (Jude 3) So if the blasphemy is lying against the truth, then we are certainly within our own boundaries to contend with the lies.

true, but thats my point, you can't proclaim that the Muslims aren't worshipping the Christian god, because in our culture, it looks like they act extreme, and ignore all the atrosities and the ignorance attributed to the Christian "god" in contrast.

I was making a comparison.

Originally posted by curiousity

Christians are those who follow Christ, not those who lynch, burn people, or are "aggressively hostile" towards non-Christians. If those who do such things claim they are Christians and acting under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, they are either deceived by the enemy of souls, or they are liars.

So in effect you are saying that the attrocities comitted in the past by the Catholic inquisition, The Jesuits storming around the world forcing their religion on the natives, the Salem witch burnings,and many other proofs from the past.. you are saying all these well documented acts by Christians against Heretics [non-Christians]... that these people were NOT Christians?

True these are horrible deeds from the past, but a little digging will yeild many stories in more recent times. Like the Priests molesting children...

This has nothing to do with ungodly things that ungodly men say against God. Just against religious zealots who claim they speak and act in God's name. To me that is more dangerous and unholy than someone questioning God to seek answers


Sigh but it sure seems this thread is way off topic... Sorry Mizar even I sometimes get pulled into these things no matter how hard I try to "bite my lip"

We need to walk through hell to get to heaven..period.