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the deadly sins/virtues

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posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 08:53 AM
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I would like to know what people's opinions are on capital sin. Are there only seven sins? Are there even less? What's the difference between Greed and Gluttony?
The deady sins and it's corresponding holy virtues appear in many faiths have changed slightly throughout history. I'm would like to know is anybody has any radical theories on the sins/virtues. The times are changing but are the sins/virtues out of date?
Is meekness a virtue?





posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 09:18 AM
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There are 7 deadly sins, and 7 holy virtues that corresponds. The Left is the sins, and the right is the virtues.

Pride : Modest
Greed : Charity
Lust : Purity
Envy : Kindness
Gluttony : Abstinence
Violence : Patience
Laziness : Diligence

As to your other question, Gluttony is taking more than what you need or want - Usually concerning food or alcohol. Greed is taking what you want, at the expence of others, whilst the others need it.



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 09:54 AM
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there's lots of very interesting and original thoughts in your post there.

Sure mad me think lots.

Don't you think that Gluttony is just an aspect of Greed.
Do you not think that Pride and modesty might be outdated? Or if not do they deserve to be capital sin? Would relaxation be considered laziness?
I just get the impression that the sins and vitues could be simplified even more so. Or on the other extreme. You could probably add alot more.

I was asking for some new ideas not to have the old ideas, which I could easily have researched and nevertheless already knew, told to me. Anybody have any new theories on morality? After all this system was devised about 1400 years ago.



[edit on 2-7-2006 by surrender_dorothy]



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
Don't you think that Gluttony is just an aspect of Greed.

My thoughts:
greed = wanting more than you need
gluttony = going beyond satisfaction (of wants or needs) to the point of excess which causes harm (ill health, obesity, overdose, etc)


Do you not think that Pride and modesty might be outdated? Or if not do they deserve to be capital sin?

The idea of capital sin, in itself, is outdated. There is no more capital punishment for any sin--it has been removed from the judge's list of judgment. Death is no longer the wages of sin.

But pride is never beneficial, that is--after it leads one 'to fall.' Pride is an instrument toward becoming truly humble (better than modesty).


Would relaxation be considered laziness?

I would think relaxation is rest--as in on the Sabbath--but laziness is ignoring responsibilities to self and others for no reason other than lack of initiative or self-discipline.


I just get the impression that the sins and vitues could be simplified even more so. Or on the other extreme. You could probably add alot more.

I'm for simplification:

Sin=not listening to God, putting one's self before others (self-orientation and selfishness, as well as self-preservation), deception.

I say:
Love yourself (God loves you, why not do the same?)
Love others as God loves you (this is how we Love God)
Love truth and never compromise truth knowingly.


Anybody have any new theories on morality?

Personally, I see morality as something that depends on how others see us--we should see ourselves in two ways--how we know ourselves, both at our worst and best, and then we must keep that gaze and also see ourselves through God's eyes (which see us as babes and not evil, if anything--just not knowing, not yet aware). Love who we are, no matter what we've done or thought or planned or hoped for. Because HE DOES! His recommendation is enough for me!

If we truly are honest with ourselves
, any of us, then we know that none of us are 'moral' deep down inside--no one makes the right and proper decision every single time--even the oldest wisest soul made 'mistakes' in their last years--it's inevitable. We are all imperfect in ways which we don't wish others to see--and that will never change--we are all human. The damage and 'sin' come from pretending to self that such isn't the case--but God knows--if we don't worry about what He doesn't worry about, then we can help others not worry needlessly, too.

Morality is like putting perfume on when you didn't bother to take a bath. Cleaning the outside but leaving the inside dirty. The only cleanliness inside is a clean conscience and that comes through loving truth and establishing and maintaining true personal integrity to the best of one's ability.




posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
greed = wanting more than you need
gluttony = going beyond satisfaction (of wants or needs) to the point of excess which causes harm (ill health, obesity, overdose, etc)


I see what your saying but they still seem the same to me. At least in the same catagory.


The idea of capital sin, in itself, is outdated. There is no more capital punishment for any sin--it has been removed from the judge's list of judgment. Death is no longer the wages of sin.

I think the idea of capital sin/deadly sin is that you cannot simply confess and be forgiven. It is stuff you go to hell for. I mean if we look at that list, I think that in any period in any given time it would be pretty harsh to execute somone for being lazy.

Everything else you wrote was great. I think it's pretty difficult to accuse people of sin these days because we are starting to realise that people are fragile and complex organisms. That being said there is one sin that is rampant in society today, and I believe that sometimes capital punishment could be to lenient.

That sin is LUST!



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 04:44 PM
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Sex can be pure--then it is passionate love and is the best thing God gave us by making us two parts of a whole (as male and female physically gendered)

But,
if approached from a selfish angle, sex can become:
Lust = 'greed'
Promiscuity ='gluttony'
Rape = 'violence'

Do you see what I mean?



posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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When greed entails the covetousness of another person's possessions the term envy is used. When greed is applied to the subject of the excessive consumption of food or drink the term gluttony is often used, another of the Catholic seven deadly sins.


Found that at free dictionary

Looking further, I realized that there are numerous 'versions' of the '7 deadly sins' and many actually are 8! But our world is a '7' world--and so 8 is going to break us.


So, I made my own 'official' version of the 7 sins/virtues list:

Avarice/Charity
Deceit/Integrity
Self-orientation/Empathy
Hate/Amiability
Scorn/Respect
Pessimism/Optimism
Vanity/Humility


Avarice is greed of all varieties: gluttony, lust, coventousness, envy, etc.
Charity is a combination of generosity and brotherly love (the golden rule)
Instead of love, I thought the opposite of hate would be the 'spirit of friendship' so I used 'amiability.'
Scorn is the same thing, basically as 'blasphemy' and vanity is 'empty pride.'

Whaddya' think?


[edit on 7/2/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:37 AM
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When I mentioned lust I was solely refering to the rape aspect. And the worst example of that is pedophilia. You can't even begin to imagine how sickened I am by the current justice systems tolerance of such montrous acts. enough of that now.

I'm liked your version although i've never been a great fan of optimism and pessimism as a deadly sin seems a little harsh. But even though I might not have agreed with it, I think it's my favourite of your additions. It kind of tickles me.
Good thinkings



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
When I mentioned lust I was solely refering to the rape aspect. And the worst example of that is pedophilia. You can't even begin to imagine how sickened I am by the current justice systems tolerance of such montrous acts. enough of that now.

I hear ya'. I'm sickened to the point of I won't even talk about those things--because the solutions are impossible as far as people on their own trying to fix things--this group or that group...divisions and more divisions....laws and more laws....all that moves toward is chaos and strife and more prisoners in the US penal system than anywhere else, last I heard! The problems have roots--a nice yearly 'trim job' on the tips of the branches does nothing but increase the next year's growth.


But you know, lust is not the precursor of rape. Rape is about violent domination and the worst sort of damage that can be done to a woman--or a man! It is the ultimate lack of control over one's person being forced by another to an unwilling intimate act that is the transgression--deep seated insecurities turned outward result in terrible violence and deep scars that are hard to heal.

And I blame the ridiculous and ungodly mandate that clergy must be 'celibate' for the heinous acts of pedophilia (which not only damages the victims, but plants more roots of violence and degradation in the next generation--it is the murder of potential more than anything else that I find appalling.) Celibacy is fine, as long as is a personal choice. And only volunatarily, never suggested as a sign of piety.


But even though I might not have agreed with it, I think it's my favourite of your additions. It kind of tickles me.
Good thinkings

I'm totally delighted that you are tickled!

As far as being 'deadly' sins, I thought about that aspect after I posted, but didn't go back and edit, my fingers were tired.
But I'll clarify now what I should have clarified yesterday.

I would hold these 7 as guidelines for personal conduct--more like guidelines that are, in their own fashion, also a reward (if one chooses the virtues) or punishment (if one chooses the 'sins'). Karmic guidelines designed for happiness and self-governing citizenship. I don't hold with 'deadly sins.' Especially based on human legislation! That is nothing more than legalized, sanctified murder! If we were all more forgiving, and givers instead of takers (for that is the essence of sin vs. virtue, IMO) then we'd have less sins and a lot more virtue. This is how I feel about the whole mess:

The Truth Behind the Facts

I have no appreciation
For any incarceration
Aimed at rehabilitation
While causing dehumanization

Man’s appointed establishment
Chosen to sit in judgment
Intended to rise above sentiment
Is borne of discontentment

Methods used to desensitize
Instead will only demoralize
While pushing us to rationalize
Away from truth we must realize

Justice is our premise to constitute
We assume the right to prosecute
Blindly our own souls we persecute
When we sin against Man and execute



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 12:13 PM
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that was a cool poem. I was so impressed that I thought somebody else must have done it. I'm not proud of thinking that but, in my defense, I haven't read enough of your stuff.
After a quick search I happened to stumble across your poetry site.
queen-annie.net...

Some great work. Do you do any of the other arts?



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 12:39 PM
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Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
that was a cool poem. I was so impressed that I thought somebody else must have done it. I'm not proud of thinking that but, in my defense, I haven't read enough of your stuff.

That's perfectly alright!
I wonder, myself, often enough--I'm know without a doubt I am way too long winded to be able to write succint meaningful verse--it's a gift, not a talent!


Some great work.

Thanks. I am but a work, too--of God, not of myself. Myself is rather feeble, I'm afraid. :shk:


Do you do any of the other arts?

Actually, yes--I draw and also I've been getting into some musical composition lately--just starting out, although I took piano lessons and theory for 8 years as a kid, I've only just begun to get the idea of melody and stuff--I see chords and harmony (in my mind's eye) much like a well-formed crystal--because it's an orderly structure that makes the most beautiful sound. So someday....


But here are links to some artwork I've done:

2 Palms
Empty Tomb
Complete Salvation
Now and Zen
Neighbors



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 12:39 PM
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In my religion, there is no sin at all. I don’t mean that there aren’t things that we shouldn’t do, certainly there are many things that one person shouldn’t do to another.

In most cases, when someone talks about “sin,” they are referring to acts that would cause one to be sent to some “Hell.” If one doesn’t believe in hell, then the corresponding idea about sin no longer applies. Since I am one who doesn’t believe in hell, I don’t believe in sin either - at least not in it’s common connotative meaning.

I think that it is a difference in approach. I could say, “If I cheat on my spouse, I’ll go to Hell.” I’d rather say, “If I am faithful to my spouse, then I am upholding the sanctity of our commitment.”

The end result may often times be the same, but the approach is different.
There will always be those who cling to the traditional ideas of sin / virtue, and that’s not a bad thing. I believe that Utopia would be populated by those who do good for its own sake, and not those who avoid bad actions only out of fear – and many of those with traditional views concerning sin still fall into the category of choosing good for it’s own sake.

As far as the virtues being outdated, I think that is nonsense. Cheating, stealing, laziness, greed, lust, etc – these will never lead to excellence of character, no matter how much time passes. I agree with Aristotle that virtue may be gained through practice. Self-control, justice, kindness, patience, modesty, etc – are exactly the kinds of things that I think we should practice.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
In my religion, there is no sin at all.


Does this religion have a name? I like the philosophy of it.

And as for Queen Annie, quite a talent.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 01:04 PM
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Yes it does - It is called Unitarian Universalism.


Here is a brief rundown

UU Principles



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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This post deleted so I can go off on this tangent on a whole 'nother thread.....

but not with a one-line post.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by dr_strangecraft]



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 05:11 AM
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deadly sins against god are murder, rape, kidnap and torture.
things like greed, envy, pride, and so on are vices that lead to these 4 sins.

voting for republicans also leads to commit these crimes.

if you really love god, then one thing is for sure - you dont want to meet him with blood on your hands.

God is demoractic. God was with Gore.



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 01:23 PM
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I agree completely with almost everything you said. Especially about republicans.

Not too sure about god being with gore though. Gore didn't win.



posted on Jul, 4 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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The concept of 7 deadly sins is not Biblical, it is a catholic thing thought up by a pope.

Any sin causes death.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 06:56 AM
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Originally posted by surrender_dorothy
Not too sure about god being with gore though. Gore didn't win.


Dorothy, at least Gore didn't get crucified.

God was with Jesus remember, and look what happened to him.

Gore carried his cross, and he was impailed in Washington.

In the second millenium, Pontius Pilate simply moved from Judea to the White House.

Can you not see crucifixes on Capitol Hill?






[edit on 5-7-2006 by mr conspiracy]



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