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Check if NSA warrantless surveillance is looking at your IP traffic

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posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 02:19 PM

Originally posted by Indy
You are saying the NSA is so dumb that to monitor your data they need to put in a bloody obvious hop in your tracert.

Wait, wait... What we are referring to is the NSA tapped switch in San Fransisco that was disclosed by a whistleblower working for AT&T. The NSA hired AT&T techies to split a fiber optic backbone to copy all traffic going through the pipe towards their monitoring equipment hidden in a secret room inside AT&T's own building in San Fransisco. Basically '' is alleged to be that monitored hop. So all we are saying is that if you see that hop in a trace route, then the NSA is watching. We're not making this stuff up, this whole thing is still in court, and Homeland Security is trying to shut this case down into secrecy.

Related articles:
Wired News published AT&T documents under seal in NSA wiretap case
AT&T Narus Collaboration Sent Your Private Internet Communications to The NSA

We are only making educated guesses about other tapped switches across the country (or the world) inside Level3 or any other ISPs. We don't know with certainty because no whistleblower stepped forward to disclose other monitored hops, but it's obvious there are others.

Originally posted by Indy
Why not just sit outside the front door of a suspect's house with a big ole truck with the words FBI on the site so you can secretly monitor a person's activities.

The analogy is more like this, NSA 'rented' office space inside an already existing building on a busy street, and they installed surveillance camera behind the windows. They are not trying to track any suspect in particular at this point, they are only filming all pedestrians passing by that building and they plan to fish for interesting people's faces at a later time. Now what happened is, a whistleblower revealed what's going on inside that building. So some people are deliberately walking past the windows just to get their face recorded on video out of curiosity, while some other people prefer to walk through different busy streets in the hope of not being monitored. But we don't really know if there are similiar surveillance buildings on other streets, we're just guessing. Makes sense?

posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 09:29 PM
I hate to break the news to you but the NSA can have taps on every route with every provider in the nation. You will never no. It is likely something that let them monitor very specific data because to mirror everything would be extremely expensive. It would be prohibitively expensive just at one point for one carrier. Imagine trying to do this to get nationwide coverage. That would take some incredible fiber run to the NSA office and imagine the servers you would need to process all the data of the net in the US. Not happening.

posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 06:34 AM
I find this quite alarming. It concerns the big companies that make routers. It is about installing backdoors into the routers at the time of manufacture FOR the government.


Cisco, Juniper, Acme Packet, and other Internet hardware makers build wiretap backdoors into their hardware that can allow the government to tap all Internet and network communications. And here's the kicker: The law requiring them to do this hasn't even gone into effect, and the specs aren't even final.

Read the rest:

Scarey, no?


posted on Jul, 13 2006 @ 08:22 AM
ok guys i'm from malaysia on the verge of virtual paranoia..

Tracing route to []
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 32 ms 35 ms 23 ms
2 30 ms 23 ms 24 ms
3 18 ms 24 ms 24 ms
4 30 ms 24 ms 24 ms []
5 30 ms 23 ms 24 ms
6 30 ms 24 ms 23 ms
7 30 ms 24 ms 23 ms
8 221 ms 216 ms 215 ms POS1-1.IG3.SAC1.ALTER.NET []
9 246 ms 215 ms 215 ms []
10 222 ms 215 ms 216 ms []
11 223 ms 215 ms 216 ms []
12 210 ms 203 ms 203 ms []
13 245 ms 251 ms 251 ms []
14 245 ms 251 ms 251 ms []
15 246 ms 251 ms 251 ms []
16 246 ms 251 ms 251 ms []
17 246 ms 251 ms 251 ms
18 270 ms 276 ms 276 ms []
19 270 ms 276 ms 276 ms []
20 271 ms 276 ms 275 ms []
21 282 ms 276 ms 275 ms []

Trace complete.

now, what does it mean..?

posted on Mar, 25 2007 @ 04:46 PM
A bit of background info.....

A "Hop" could simply be a routing device that "IS" the internet. Without routers moving packets between networks (the internet is simply lots and lots of little networks all joined together), there is no internet.

Every router has at least an IP address. Because all our home/office PCs generally use the TCP/IP protocol for communication, then so too do these routers.

Every time you run a tracert command, it sends a special packet to these devices. As it is encountered by a device, it sends a packet back. Every packet has a time stamp on it, and off this, the "Round Trip Time" is determined (this is usually the numbers that read, 63ms for example).

At the same time, the device sends with the return packet information about itself (either an IP address, DNS address or * if that information was not returned, was lost, or blocked en-route by a firewall or IDS somewhere preventing its return).

As the packet goes on its journey, it is forwarded to the "next hop" router in the chain of routers that it has determined is the shortest/quickest path (usually) to the destination. The packets being sent back keep going until the packet reaches its destination.

That is the output you are seeing after running tracert.

The FBI had a system called "Carnivore".

Sniffers are usually passive devices; they are attached to a network segment and record anything and everything that passes it. It is undetectable (unless you know how to look for it). I won't be putting that particular info on here.

now, what does it mean..?

Assuming that they are indeed monitoring that point, and that they are still monitoring that point now, it means your data is being monitored.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 01:51 PM
Tracing route to []
over a maximum of 30 hops:

8 1716 ms 1651 ms 1274 ms []
9 1191 ms 1198 ms 1979 ms []
10 1255 ms 1956 ms 1745 ms []
11 * 1659 ms 1685 ms []

Ok so am I being tracked? so far I lack the sffca. part.

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 05:42 PM
obviously this thread revived, and I went back through it all and noticed that if I tracert normal sites, even gov sites, I usually dont even go through AT&T, but and INTERESTING TRACERT, look at this.

tracert to
10. []
11. []

Interesting, two of them on the trace to al-jazeera, but no others. numbers 8-12 are AT&T addresses too, but those two have that sffca name in the domain.

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 06:44 PM
Thus I would say this is highly SELECTIVE monitoring, in short the monitoring of militant websites, anti-goverment, anti-fed, anti-current government politicians sites. However we cannot validate that till more people try a more selective trace. If we get the same results for the selective tracerts then we abviously have selective monitoring of websites.

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 10:11 PM
If there's really a need to trace you, it'd probably be done transparently. I really doubt that doing a traceroute will help you at all.

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 10:41 PM
Apparently it does. Besides which how many people actually know how to do a tracert? I sure as heck never had a clue such a thing was possible untill I found this thread.

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 11:04 PM
But this only refers to the AT&T subscribers. What about the others? I have Bright House cable, phone and internet. How can I tell if the NSA has tracking for my ISP?

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 11:29 PM

Originally posted by Vekar
Apparently it does. Besides which how many people actually know how to do a tracert? I sure as heck never had a clue such a thing was possible untill I found this thread.

A massive amount of people. It's very simple and widely used... I've been using it for diagnostics for years now.

All this shows is what hops your connection takes. Nothing more. Basically, the internet is just a bunch of hops, and this "magic server" is just another route your connection can take. You really expect it to NOT use an AT&T network every so often?

posted on Jun, 6 2007 @ 11:51 PM
The point of this thread being the jumps it takes that gets reported to the NSA not AT&T. That is the point. Read over the thread a bit, you might find that was the purpose of all this: to find out which hops it takes that reports your information to the NSA. Souljah covered this earlier, on the front page.

posted on Jun, 7 2007 @ 12:49 AM
If I do the tracert command with or I don't get the att ip address, but if I do it with,, or it does show up (

[edit on 7-6-2007 by lin2007]

posted on Jun, 7 2007 @ 01:26 AM
Okay, here are some traceroutes I've done on my iMac. I've noticed that they only trigger on certain web pages.

For example: rears this result:

Traceroute has started ...

traceroute: Warning: has multiple addresses; using
traceroute to (, 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 ( 2.986 ms 0.931 ms 1.351 ms
2 ( 8.823 ms 6.188 ms 5.972 ms
3 ( 8.848 ms 9.479 ms 8.736 ms
4 ( 135.636 ms 205.081 ms 13.329 ms
5 ( 9.597 ms 13.118 ms 8.447 ms
6 ( 9.485 ms 8.997 ms 9.741 ms
7 ( 26.912 ms 22.885 ms 21.030 ms
8 ( 20.872 ms 20.060 ms 21.427 ms
9 ( 24.738 ms 24.110 ms 23.136 ms
10 ( 85.590 ms 85.232 ms 83.279 ms
11 ( 86.754 ms 85.000 ms 85.613 ms
12 ( 79.243 ms 76.864 ms 77.648 ms
13 ( 81.462 ms 83.049 ms 83.018 ms
14 ( 77.948 ms 75.730 ms 78.387 ms
15 * *

Notice the bolded font means I was redirected through the NSA's surveillance server.

While the NSA brings this:
Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to (, 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 ( 1.631 ms 1.014 ms 0.923 ms
2 ( 6.661 ms 12.872 ms 9.048 ms
3 ( 7.327 ms 12.669 ms 10.047 ms
4 ( 8.137 ms 9.163 ms 14.985 ms
5 ( 8.158 ms 7.994 ms 9.195 ms
6 ( 9.184 ms 8.659 ms 11.016 ms
7 ( 22.908 ms 22.044 ms 26.640 ms
8 ( 20.796 ms 19.738 ms 22.582 ms
9 ( 24.045 ms 25.731 ms 23.239 ms
10 ( 43.663 ms 40.640 ms 45.969 ms
11 ( 40.731 ms 43.038 ms 41.721 ms
12 ( 42.925 ms 42.678 ms 40.327 ms
13 ( 49.220 ms 43.351 ms 42.217 ms
14 ( 215.691 ms 207.766 ms 253.695 ms
15 ( 47.237 ms ( 45.974 ms ( 46.098 ms
16 ( 47.665 ms 54.731 ms 49.805 ms
17 * * *

Note that when I select the NSA's website, I was not put through the NSA's surveillance server.

Apparently, the NSA has trigger webpages, meaning that people attempting to access sites of the NSA's interest will be sent through their server, and will be tracked.

I'm also assuming that if I keep tracerouting to aljazeera, the NSA will notice my increased interest in that sight and 'visit' me to check me out.

Just a theory.


posted on Jun, 7 2007 @ 01:31 AM
I've also noticed that I can ping ATS, I can ping almost any website.

For example, I ping Google:

Ping has started ...

PING ( 56 data bytes
64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=241 time=49.636 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=241 time=48.048 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=241 time=50.445 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=3 ttl=241 time=48.191 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=4 ttl=241 time=47.075 ms

--- ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 47.075/48.679/50.445/1.204 ms

I ping ATS:

Ping has started ...

PING ( 56 data bytes
64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=52 time=33.024 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=52 time=32.656 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=52 time=32.899 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=3 ttl=52 time=32.386 ms
64 bytes from icmp_seq=4 ttl=52 time=32.231 ms

--- ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 32.231/32.639/33.024/0.299 ms

Each ping I send is returned. However, when I attempt to ping the NSA web server:

Ping has started ...

PING ( 56 data bytes

--- ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss

I sent 5 pings to each website. Google returned all my pings, as well as ATS. The NSA server, however, did not return ANY of my pings. Why is this?


posted on Jun, 7 2007 @ 02:15 AM
Hi Ranchman

The reason you're not getting ping responses from NSA servers is because they have their firewalls set to drop pings silently, to simply ignore them

Any firewall on a home DSL modem/router has exactly the same capabilities...

The others you've pinged obviously don't mind folks pinging their servers and thus allow their servers to respond to the pings


posted on Jun, 7 2007 @ 12:07 PM
Well it appears my theory is being proven slowly, so I did a rerun for a tracert, I would like to share one part that stood out:
route to whitehouse.govover a maximum of 30 hops:

8 3083 ms 1228 ms 1200 ms []
9 1471 ms 1140 ms 1187 ms []
10 1634 ms 1142 ms 1141 ms []

Now another tracert
over a maximum of 30 hops:

Tracing route to
over a maximum of 30 hops:
9 1572 ms 1200 ms 1317 ms []
10 1431 ms 1177 ms 1385 ms []
11 1611 ms 1223 ms 1216 ms []

Now we need 5 more people to do this exact same tracert to see how well my theory is standing up. SO! Lets get started shall we?

posted on Jun, 8 2007 @ 02:17 AM
Not wanting to rain on your parade here, Vekar...

But, I've done a ton of traces to both and both and

I've done the traces using 8 "looking glasses", 4 in the US, 1 in Australia which is not my own ISP, 2 in Europe and 1in Asia

As posting all these traces is a waste of space, I did not find those ATT servers in any of the traces I did thru the looking glasses...I even used an ATT router to trace to both the hosts you mentioned and that doesnt even route thru the 2 "suspicious" ATT servers !

I think what all this means is many traces you do to lots of sites/ip addys and so on will route thru at least one of the ATT servers you mentioned, and I believe this to be as a result of the ISP you are using and their backbone provider...

So, relax !
You're safe, the NSA arent watching you...

EDIT : P.S - is the real host you should be looking at too, btw...I tested this one, and found only the ATT router I did for the trace routed the query thru the "suspect" ATT routers, all other routers I used for the trace didnt


[edit on 8-6-2007 by Rilence]

posted on Jun, 8 2007 @ 01:43 PM
Jeez, you need to go back over the original posts. This is a theory I had because some people were not showing NSA monitoring while others did. So I was wondering if it was a result of selective WEBSITE monitoring or do they pick and choose who to monitor. That was the theory, and yes they do monitor people.

Tracing route to []
over a maximum of 30 hops:

9 1289 ms 1174 ms 1326 ms []
10 1796 ms 1134 ms 2666 ms []
11 1682 ms 1338 ms 1430 ms []

I ran it again, none the less I need more people to do this and POST IT FOR ONCE to prove or disprove anything. So POST YOUR FINDINGS! I dont CARE how long it is! Post it! Prove you actually did the tracert! That is what matters right now, not peoples words but the actual tracert findings.

So once again it appears we are looking at a different kind of monitoring, still I want more people to try this, sadly I doubt we will get any of the original topic posters who are being monitored to come back and do this and post again.

Lastly: I ran tracerts (I posted them) that ARE being sent to the NSA, so yes I AM being monitored. Thank you and goodnight.
Lastly: I do not really care that they are monitoring me, just wondering how long, because if it only started recently they are mighty slow.

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