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Check if NSA warrantless surveillance is looking at your IP traffic

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posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 05:26 AM
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One more note.. do you SERIOUSLY think NSA uses their "Hollywood" NSA.GOV web host to track everyone? NO, they would most likely use servers from other locations that can not be traced to them..

This is WHOS IP on the NSA.GOV IP (the IP the O.P. tells us to Trace Route)



IP Address : 12.110.110.204 [ 12.110.110.204 ]
ISP : AT&T WorldNet Services
Organization : LINGUALISTEK
Location : US, United States
City : Ellicott City, MD 21042
Latitude : 39°27'68" North
Longitude : 76°90'15" West


OrgName: AT&T WorldNet Services
OrgID: ATTW
Address: 200 S. Laurel AVE.
City: MIDDLETOWN
StateProv: NJ
PostalCode: 07748
Country: US

NetRange: 12.0.0.0 - 12.255.255.255
CIDR: 12.0.0.0/8
NetName: ATT
NetHandle: NET-12-0-0-0-1
Parent:
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: DBRU.BR.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET
NameServer: '___'U.MT.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET
NameServer: CBRU.BR.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET
NameServer: CMTU.MT.NS.ELS-GMS.ATT.NET
Comment: For abuse issues contact abuse@att.net
RegDate: 1983-08-23
Updated: 2002-08-23

RTechHandle: DK71-ARIN
RTechName: Kostick, Deirdre
RTechPhone: +1-919-319-8249
RTechEmail: help@ip.att.net

OrgAbuseHandle: ATTAB-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: ATT Abuse
OrgAbusePhone: +1-919-319-8130
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@att.net

OrgTechHandle: ICC-ARIN
OrgTechName: IP Customer Care
OrgTechPhone: +1-888-613-6330
OrgTechEmail: qhoang@att.com

OrgTechHandle: IPSWI-ARIN
OrgTechName: IP SWIP
OrgTechPhone: +1-888-613-6330
OrgTechEmail: help@ip.att.net

OrgName: LINGUALISTEK
OrgID: LINGU
Address: 9861 Broken Land Parkway
Address: Suite 300
City: Columbia
StateProv: MD
PostalCode: 21046
Country: US

NetRange: 12.110.110.192 - 12.110.110.255
CIDR: 12.110.110.192/26
NetName: LINGUALI77-110-192
NetHandle: NET-12-110-110-192-1
Parent: NET-12-0-0-0-1
NetType: Reassigned
Comment:
RegDate: 2003-10-06
Updated: 2003-10-06

OrgTechHandle: MLO42-ARIN
OrgTechName: Louis, Montas
OrgTechPhone: +1-410-953-0300
OrgTechEmail: mlouis@lingualistek.com

# ARIN WHOIS database, last updated 2006-07-04 19:10
# Enter ? for additional hints on searching ARIN's WHOIS database.



Trust me when I say the original poster is FAR from correct about his trace route check.

The NSA.GOV web page is hosted by a company using ATT as their ISP. Of COURSE you will get ATT host names in a trace route to nsa.gov. A Trace Route will be different depending on your location. Some people will have the "magic string" and some others wont, only because you are from a different location.

Whoever has the "magic string" please post your location on Earth. I bet there will be a link between people that DO and people that DONT.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]

[edit on 5-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]




posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 06:32 AM
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I have done some very limited checking on this, and so far it seems the so-called "magic string" does not pop up on trace routes to every domain, only some.



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
One more note.. do you SERIOUSLY think NSA uses their "Hollywood" NSA.GOV web host to track everyone? NO, they would most likely use servers from other locations that can not be traced to them..

This is WHOS IP on the NSA.GOV IP (the IP the O.P. tells us to Trace Route)


Trust me when I say the original poster is FAR from correct about his trace route check.

The NSA.GOV web page is hosted by a company using ATT as their ISP. Of COURSE you will get ATT host names in a trace route to nsa.gov. A Trace Route will be different depending on your location. Some people will have the "magic string" and some others wont, only because you are from a different location.

Whoever has the "magic string" please post your location on Earth. I bet there will be a link between people that DO and people that DONT.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]

[edit on 5-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]



You are absolutely 100% correct. I tried to state this earlier. If you start looking at network topology graphs it will occur to anyone here how immensely difficult it would be to route the Internets entire traffic through one (or many) server farms.
Also, as stated above - Everyones internet traffic will take different paths based on location, sever load, balancing, and network failures.

And obviously, if you traceroute to nsa.gov you *will* travel through AT&T's network because they are hosting the nsa's website.

Bravo Laes Yvan !



posted on Jul, 5 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Can someone look at my previous post on page 4.I am getting suspicious know.



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 12:44 AM
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Don't worry.. Look, I made a VERY ROUGH illustration of what is happening. Each "HOP" in a Trace Route is a different Internet Switching station or Internet Service Provider. In this picture you can see Location 1 doesn't have the "magic string", yet Location 2 does.





I realize the "magic string 'sffca.ip.att.net' " is a station located in San Francisco California, hence "SFFCA", but this picture above is JUST an example of "HOPS" on a trace route.

Depending on bandwidth usage, location, and other types of traffic, and even routine maintenance on some switching stations, your "HOPS" will change.



[edit on 6-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
Don't worry.. Look, I made a VERY ROUGH illustration of what is happening. Each "HOP" in a Trace Route is a different Internet Switching station or Internet Service Provider. In this picture you can see Location 1 doesn't have the "magic string", yet Location 2 does.





I realize the "magic string 'sffca.ip.att.net' " is a station located in San Francisco California, hence "SFFCA", but this picture above is JUST an example of "HOPS" on a trace route.

Depending on bandwidth usage, location, and other types of traffic, and even routine maintenance on some switching stations, your "HOPS" will change.



Traceroute has started ...

traceroute to nsa.gov (12.110.110.204), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
1 * * *
2 1.062.dsl.syd.iprimus.net.au (211.27.252.1) 31.528 ms 29.914 ms 29.786 ms
3 atm3-64.ac02.syd.iprimus.net.au (192.168.63.218) 32.635 ms 32.249 ms 31.181 ms
4 vlan5.sw01.syd.iprimus.net.au (210.50.143.129) 43.017 ms 32.827 ms 29.593 ms
5 ge1-0-0.br01.syd.iprimus.net.au (203.134.2.170) 63.931 ms 30.291 ms 32.835 ms
6 p1-7.cr2-sjc.primustel.com (209.227.129.225) 188.098 ms 189.164 ms 186.924 ms
7 ge4-2.pr1-sjc.primustel.com (209.227.129.193) 185.893 ms 184.876 ms 183.914 ms
8 p3-0.pr1-paix.primustel.com (209.227.129.41) 186.881 ms 187.037 ms 187.133 ms
9 12.118.116.45 (12.118.116.45) 190.090 ms 192.454 ms 195.777 ms
10 tbr2-p014002.sffca.ip.att.net (12.123.12.134) 254.265 ms 252.019 ms 292.200 ms

So basically what you are saying is i do not have the magic string.

[edit on 6-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]


[edit on 6-7-2006 by tarzan]

[edit on 6-7-2006 by tarzan]



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by tarzan
So basically what you are saying is i do not have the magic string.


First off, a mod. might edit your post because of an ultra large quote.

Second, no thats not what im saying. You DO have the "magic string". In your Trace Route you have SFFCA.IP.ATT.NET on your 10th hop. But that doesn't matter. Its just a fluke, some people will have it, some people wont, depending on your location.

B.T.W. Do you live in Australia?


I just downloaded this program called VisualRoute. You can get a trial here...

download.visualware.com...

I did a scan that is almost exactly like my fake illustration above..



But it stops in Columbia MD because of firewalls in the system. You should do a quite trace.




[edit on 6-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 04:46 AM
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Second, no thats not what im saying. You DO have the "magic string". In your Trace Route you have SFFCA.IP.ATT.NET on your 10th hop. But that doesn't matter. Its just a fluke, some people will have it, some people wont, depending on your location.

B.T.W. Do you live in Australia?


I just downloaded this program called VisualRoute. You can get a trial here...

download.visualware.com...

I did a scan that is almost exactly like my fake illustration above..



But it stops in Columbia MD because of firewalls in the system. You should do a quite trace.


Yes i am located in Australia.I guess i kinda knew i had it but i guess i was optimistic.What do you mean by a quite trace?ohh and thanks for the link



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 05:48 AM
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Oops i'm sorry, it was a typo. I meant QUICK trace. Sorry.

Also the O.P's sources are laughable. They want you to think you are using some super secret command, and ask you to run it in ms-dos. You dont even need to open a command prompt in Windows XP, and if my memory serves right, Windows NT, or 98.

Just go to START, RUN, and type Tracert nsa.gov

You dont need to open the command prompt.

But once again, you are only tracing the route to ATT switches. Since NSA.GOV uses ATT, its the same thing. You will probably get nearly the same results if you Tracert www.att.net


[edit on 6-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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.....all I get is "timed out"

Meh



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 11:43 AM
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Ok If ATT & Level3 has been compromised, seeing sffca will not matter. DO you think the NSA will only tap the SF switch. Come on, they are going to use every switch. If you do not see a SF switch but you do see a ATT hop then is still could have been logged.

Example:
Here is a trace on ATS



Tracing route to abovetopsecret.com [74.52.37.180]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1



posted on Jul, 6 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Imperium Americana

There is defiantly something going on here!
The key is not the tbr2-p012201.sffca.ip.att.net address. That is BS! It is the hops (where and what) they are taking you too. As you can see from my Al Jazeera trace, I got bounced all over DC.




Nothing is going on..... english.aljazeera.net his hosted by CERFnet ISP. CERFnet is operated by ATT.

www.cerf.net

the only reason ATT is showing up is because you are Traceing Route to a ATT servers....

B.T.W. on your Al Jazeera trace, where was the traced FROM? I bet It was traced in the East coast.

When I do the aljazeera trace from Los Angeles, Washington doesnt even show up. Although the "MAGIC STRING" shows up.




====================================================
=== VisualRoute report on Jul 6, 2006 9:05:14 PM ===
====================================================

Report for english.aljazeera.net [12.120.13.11]

1 - edit personal ip out
2 - **
3 - **


| 4 | | 66.215.0.18 | 66-215-0-18.static.lsan.ca.charter.com | ?St. Louis, MO | | 7 | x | Charter Communications CH-LA-66-215-0-31 |
| 5 | | 12.125.98.157 | - | ?Middletown, NJ, USA | -05:00 | 227 | x- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-125-0-0-1 |
| 6 | | 12.123.28.134 | gbr2-p100.la2ca.ip.att.net | Los Angeles, CA, USA | -08:00 | 301 | --x-- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 7 | | 12.122.11.133 | tbr1-p013602.la2ca.ip.att.net | Los Angeles, CA, USA | -08:00 | 239 | -x | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 8 | | 12.122.10.25 | tbr1-cl3.sffca.ip.att.net | San Francisco, CA, USA | -08:00 | 216 | x | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 9 | | 12.122.11.74 | gbr5-p100.sffca.ip.att.net | San Francisco, CA, USA | -08:00 | 238 | x- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-122-0-0 |
| 10 | | 12.120.13.5 | snfca001il4.equip.icdsatt.net | ?Morristown, NJ, USA | -05:00 | 235 | x----- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-120-0-0 |
| 11 | | 12.120.13.11 | english.aljazeera.net | ?Morristown, NJ, USA | -05:00 | 243 | -x--- | AT&T Worldnet Services ATTSVI-12-120-0-0 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------
Roundtrip time to english.aljazeera.net, average = 243ms, min = 196ms, max = 410ms -- Jul 6, 2006 9:05:14 PM




But that doesnt mean anything. The only thing it could mean is that ATT uses San Francisco as a main switch for cross country or international connections.


[edit on 6-7-2006 by LAES YVAN]



posted on Jul, 7 2006 @ 03:14 AM
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Another little bit of information that I think many people are missing is this:

The Washington DC / Northern Virginia area is also the cradle of the internet. Having worked for DC area backbone providers (DIGEX and PSINet - both are now defunct - one (PSINet) was bought by ATT, and the other (DIGEX) was bought by Intermedia Communications, and later by Level 3), both of those companies had more bandwidth in a single building than some small countries had total (I was working for the above backbone providers from roughly 1996-2000). Even today, roughly 1/5 of all the bandwidth in the US is centered around the DC Metro area. Given that the two biggest backbone providers these days are Level 3, and ATT, it's a pretty safe bet that most traces done to any major site will go through either Level 3 or ATT, and possibly through DC (as a lot of sites that are owned by people throughout the US are remotely hosted in major server farms in the DC area - meaning that the site owner / content authors could live in Iowa, but the physical computer that the site is hosted on is in DC/NoVA).

I feel that the sffca string is just a red herring in all of this. It could very well be an NSA monitoring site, but VERY likely not the only one.

Just because you see an ATT site on a route trace isn't reason to panic - yet. Let the internet gurus figure it out, and blow the whistle.



posted on Jul, 7 2006 @ 04:18 AM
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Hmmmm if an NSA agent wanted to "hook" people, maybe a thread like this where everyone is panicing and pinging them, might be like poking a tiger with a stick to see if it spots you?

As far as I know, ever since I got my computer, everyone has said that emails are like an open book, so if you have something to hide, don't put it into an email.

And if you use wireless keypads etc... look out your window and see if a Black Van is parked around the corner.

Besides they don't read your email until automatic scanners pick out key words. You have any idea the logistics involved in reading every email sent daily by billions of people?




posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Hmmmm if an NSA agent wanted to "hook" people, maybe a thread like this where everyone is panicing and pinging them


You aren't pinging the NSA, that's what people fail to understand. You are pinging the web host of the NSA web site, AT&T.

There are MANY MANY different ways NSA can track your internet traffic, and do it secretly without being detected. They don't need to route your traffic to a certain ISP, they can just capture the packets while in route to a certain hop. Your traffic can be routed to another location without appearing on a trace route.

I dont see why anyone would believe the NSA would use such a primitive easily detected method to track you.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 01:51 AM
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Internet Assigned Numbers Authority
OrgID: IANA
Address: 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330
City: Marina del Rey
StateProv: CA

What does this group want? I see them most often lately. In the past, I've seen, Seattle level 3, Colorado level 3, us military, ford motor corp, A T & T, among many others. When I back trace some now, I get a message that says I can't see who it is, for privacy reasons, which I dislike. If they scan me, I should be able to know who they are. What all these groups are up to is not likely to be for my own benefit, imo. If so, I hope they tell me how it will benefit me in the future. It is my observation that the general trend is to increase the public feeling of security while steadily eroding the publics actual personal freedom as individuals. Every security increase is guaranteed to also decrease freedom simultaneously.



posted on Jul, 8 2006 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by LAES YVAN
You aren't pinging the NSA, that's what people fail to understand. You are pinging the web host of the NSA web site, AT&T.

There are MANY MANY different ways NSA can track your internet traffic, and do it secretly without being detected. They don't need to route your traffic to a certain ISP, they can just capture the packets while in route to a certain hop. Your traffic can be routed to another location without appearing on a trace route.

I dont see why anyone would believe the NSA would use such a primitive easily detected method to track you.


This method is probably the more likely. In my brief stint in network security (where my main role was tracking down child pornographers on the Internet, and reporting my findings to the FBI), untraceable scans were what we used. Given even the primitive forms of this technology (primitive on a commercial basis - there's no telling where the Feds were at that point), I could track, browse, and record data transfers to and from a site, completely undetectably. It was a simple program that interfaced with a core router, and simply transmitted back to me all data transfers associated with a particular IP address (being transfers to or from a certain address), as well as allowed me the capacity to browse the http content at an address anonymously. This method may sound a lot like hacking (and to an extent, it was), but the main difference is that this type of surveillance was done under the authority of the FBI, and with the consent of the host ISP (whoever was providing the bandwidth for such a site).

Even that technology, primitive as it was in 1999, could easilly have been used for more sinister means. The software I was using (a program I simply called "spyscan" - developed by internal software engineers for PSINet, and was never commercially released) could have easilly been used to scan the internet traffic of an average user as well, provided we knew the IP address. Since then, I'm sure such a program could have been improved to scan all traffic through a certain router, and pick out key words or addresses within the packets, thus alerting whoever is monitoring it to further scan certain addresses.

Thing is, this technology is already known in the private, commercial industry. There's nothing to say that the NSA doesn't have far more advanced versions of similar software.

As Laes Yvan stated in the previous post, this is more likely the means through which the tracking is done. Laes Yvan, I'd also like to thank you of reminding me of something which I had forgotten about - this type of software.

In 7 years of advancement of this software (which is roughly equivalent to 20-30 years of advancement in any other business), it's quite possible that even the commercial versions are able to track not just internet traffic, but also keystrokes. This means that such software could possibly know exactly where you go, and what passwords you use to get there, in addition to what you type when you get there.

Scary stuff.



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 03:46 AM
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Ok there are some people that must have it that the NSA is spying on them. Let me try and put this whole trace thing in perspective for you.

First off if the NSA wants your data they can get it. They don't have to rely on AT&T to route all their data through the NSA system. Doing that will skip all the other backbone carriers. Would you reroute an entire river so you could catch a fish? Of course not.

If you were to run a tracert on MY ip address you'd hit Indianapolis Road Runner every single time. That doesn't mean that Indy RR is spying on your. You hit them every time because they provide my computer a connection to the net. If you tracert abovetopsecret.com you'll hit ThePlanet every single time. ThePlanet (a major server farm) isn't spying on you or the site. They provide the connectivity to ATS. ThePlanet has a number of major carriers feeding their data center so it is possible that on a given day your route might change and you might get Cogentco one day and AT&T the next but ultimately you will hit their data center before hitting the ATS server. Same goes for the NSA. They have to get their bandwidth from somewhere. So whoever they buy from will be the last hop in the trace before entering the NSA system. You might hit a router and a firewall before you hit the server but to get to that server you WILL hit AT&T. Just like if you send me snail mail. For that mail to get to me it MUST hit the 46203 post office. My mail isn't going to get delivered by a Chicago post office.

Routing data to the NSA is no different than routing data to your computer. It is all the same. They just have a bigger net work and bigger pipe than you. If you wanted to spend the thousands of dollars necessary you could get an AT&T DS3 or OC3 to your house and all the traces to your computer would show AT&T just like with the NSA.

Does this make sense yet? You are not being spied on by the NSA. When you tracert the NSA you are basically just driving to the NSA home and the road to their home is AT&T Blvd. Nothing more nothing less. Are you shocked when you arrive on the street that your house is located on?



posted on Jul, 10 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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I don't know if they are spying on us, individually specifically, but monitoring the internet is something they the security agencies keep talking about, in news conferences when they mention increased chatter on the internet. Since in many news conferences they used to continually use the phrases like, increased internet chatter, as a reason to elevate those risk alerts, one can only assume from this, they have to have a way of monitoring this increased chatter, which would mean they are gathering information as in data mining.

From following many of the strings I got, it continually led me to the spam and fraud divisions already set up within the phone and internet companies which we all are aware that they the federal gov. are monitoring calls. C'mon folks its been in the news, we all know about this. It would then seem to make sense that if one were going to attempt to monitor large groups or individuals these government agencies would then use the equipment and people already in place for monitoring us at these companies.

Why build a whole new system for doing this when these companies already have a system set up to track criminals down? It just makes sense to use what is already there especially if these companies are cooperating or being forced to cooperate by law. According to one well known former NSA agent the NSA had a cardinal rule that they did not spy on Americans, so it would make sense they did not have a system in place for doing so, and it would take time to build one, plus the internet would be difficult to monitor without an inside system from the providers. Sure the gov. could build a system and make it workable but that could take months or maybe even years and lots of money, why not use the systems already in place and build on that? It's more economical as far as expense, time saving and quicker results.




www.democracynow.org.../01/03/1435201&mode=thread&tid=25
AMY GOODMAN: Russell Tice, you have worked for the National Security Agency. Can you talk about your response to the revelations that the Times, you know, revealed in -- perhaps late, knowing the story well before the election, yet revealing it a few weeks ago -- the revelation of the wiretapping of American citizens?

RUSSELL TICE: Well, as far as an intelligence officer, especially a SIGINT officer at N.S.A., we're taught from very early on in our careers that you just do not do this. This is probably the number one commandment of the SIGINT Ten Commandments as a SIGINT officer. You will not spy on Americans. It is drilled into our head over and over and over again in security briefings, at least twice a year, where you ultimately have to sign a paper that says you have gotten the briefing. Everyone at N.S.A. who’s a SIGINT officer knows that you do not do this. Ultimately, so do the leaders of N.S.A., and apparently the leaders of N.S.A. have decided that they were just going to go against the tenets of something that’s a gospel to a SIGINT officer.




[edit on 10-7-2006 by goose]



posted on Jul, 12 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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Ok it is time people take off the foil hats and put on their thinking caps for a moment. You guys can see that every Joe and their brother can do a tracert to see where the data is going. Don't you think it would be extremely STUPID for the NSA to set itself up as a hop on the net? Something so bloody obvious? Why not just sit outside the front door of a suspect's house with a big ole truck with the words FBI on the site so you can secretly monitor a person's activities. If the NSA is monitoring YOU they aren't going to do something as stupid and obvious as parking an NSA truck out in front of your house. This is basically what you are saying. You are saying the NSA is so dumb that to monitor your data they need to put in a bloody obvious hop in your tracert. What next? Maybe the NSA knocks on your door and asks to sit down by you at the computer while you surf the net? If the NSA is monitoring your activity you will never no. Not until the time you get arrested for doing something determined to be a risk to national security.



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