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Is SETI looking in the Right Place?

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posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 04:30 PM
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SETI has for decades been looking for signs of intelligent life by searching the skies for radio signals.

If space travel by other alien civilizations exit, and they are advanced enough to have solved faster than light drives or hyperspace portals, there communication would also have to be as advanced. If they relied on radio or other similar light speed or less communication beams, they would have little or no effect.

Does SETI have the abilty to sense that type of signal? Maybe that is why we haven't heard anyone.
We are looking in the wrong place.


Edited for easier search.

[edit on 1-7-2006 by Gazrok]




posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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I think you mean SETI the Search for Extraterrestial Intelligence.

Check out this thread

Apparantly, they have got something, I don't believe it, but it's a good place to start.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
CETI has for decades been looking for signs of intelligent life by searching the skies for radio signals.


I've heard of SETI, as in Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, but not "CETI". is this a new type of search, and if so what does the "C" stand for?



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 05:21 PM
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I think he was just mistaken, there's no such thing as CETI, just SETI.

Either way though, it's searching for the wrong sinals.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 05:42 PM
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SETI is an old experiment now and was developed in the analog era, experts predict in 50 years or so all analog signals (i.e radio, tv) will be gone, replaced by a more efficent digital system (its already happening) which means there is only a tiny gap in the existence of an advanced civilisation where they would give off radio signals. Basically what you say is right in a way, rather that they arent looking in the right way.

To a degree OSETI is more realistic, looking for digital/optical/laser based signals (since these could be used to communicate at the speed of light). But even at these speeds, if a civ is 1000 light years away it would still take 1000 years to communicate. So we need to look at ways of communicating faster than the speed of light, which is (pretty much) theoretically impossible at this point in time.


[edit on 30-6-2006 by Insolubrious]



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 08:21 PM
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"To a degree OSETI is more realistic, looking for digital/optical/laser based signals (since these could be used to communicate at the speed of light). But even at these speeds, if a civ is 1000 light years away it would still take 1000 years to communicate. So we need to look at ways of communicating faster than the speed of light, which is (pretty much) theoretically impossible at this point in time."

Actually your wrong it is theoretically possible it's called quantum nonlocality or essentially subspace radio. Quantum teleportation is actually based off this concept. theoretically we could communicate in real time over the entire distance of the universe.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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In reality your looking in the wrong direction completely.

They (the Grey's) are in the deepest of our waters. I would suggest sending low frequency wave lengths down.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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"They (the Grey's) are in the deepest of our waters. I would suggest sending low frequency wave lengths down."

First you have to proove they exist before you look for them. Greys are just a figment of someones imagination. Since no one can proove the greys existence and since I know they existed in Hollywood prior to all abductions and sightings in the 20th century. I am willing to bet my money on the fact they don't exist. Or at least that's what the evidence suggests.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 11:50 PM
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So you think that a civilization is going to magically go from nothing to a type of communication we can't detect? Our television signals are still going out into space from decades ago. Any civilization advanced enough to have television is going to have signals going into space that are detectable. Those signals will travel for a long time, all it takes is an antenna in the right place to detect them.



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 03:25 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
I've heard of SETI, as in Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, but not "CETI". is this a new type of search, and if so what does the "C" stand for?



Ummmm C for Canadian?


Wow I can't believe I did that
That's what happens when you stay up all night in here


Perhaps some kind moderator would fix that and save me anymore embarassment



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
Our television signals are still going out into space from decades ago.


That may be true, but how far have those TV signals gone? The early TV and radio broadcasts were weak at best and full of static. How far would those go before they are to garbled to be almost meaningless?

Our modern signals are stronger, but they have been underway only a few decades, and at the speed of light that puts them only past a couple of nearby stars.

And don't forget we are out here on the rim of the galaxy...



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 04:53 AM
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to me SETI is a waste of time becuase there are no civilization's on other planets that are more advanced then us i think we are the most advanced race in the universe



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 07:14 AM
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It doesn't matter if they're garbled or not. The point is that they're still detectable, and still going to be recognizable as a signal of some sort, meaning life out there.



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 09:15 AM
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Zaphod is exactly right...



So you think that a civilization is going to magically go from nothing to a type of communication we can't detect? Our television signals are still going out into space from decades ago. Any civilization advanced enough to have television is going to have signals going into space that are detectable. Those signals will travel for a long time, all it takes is an antenna in the right place to detect them.


Sure, we may be looking for the wrong kind of signal, but we have to use what we know. We have to assume that others stumbled upon the same means... However, distance isn't the only real enemy....time is.

Let me explain.

Lets say another civilization, far enough away that radio signals took 1000 years to get here, developed and used radio for 2 centuries before moving on to something else. Those waves are STILL on their way to us, but we won't get them for another few centuries. When we do get them, we may not be looking anymore. Therein lies the whole dilemma, and why time, as well as distance, is the enemy in this.

SETI is like looking for a needle in a haystack, and you don't know what field, or what time of year that needle will be there... Don't get me wrong, I think it's an EXTREMELY valid project...but the argument of skeptics that "well, we would have found something by now", is preposterous at best, with even the simplest logic.



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by dabomb
to me SETI is a waste of time becuase there are no civilization's on other planets that are more advanced then us i think we are the most advanced race in the universe




THis is truly a depressing thought



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 11:18 AM
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Originally posted by dabomb
to me SETI is a waste of time becuase there are no civilization's on other planets that are more advanced then us i think we are the most advanced race in the universe


The universe is infinately old and we are way out here on the rim of our little galaxy, almost in the middle of nowhere, and you think we are the only ones? Do you have any idea how big the universe is? You think all this was created for nothing? Sigh.........



Sure, we may be looking for the wrong kind of signal, but we have to use what we know. We have to assume that others stumbled upon the same means... However, distance isn't the only real enemy....time is.



I agree we should keep looking, because we really do need to know, if we have others out there. Believing is not enough for most humans, we need proof.


As to time, yes that is the point I was making. our whole history since the first radio transmission left earth has not gotten very far away.[Don't have exact figure but its not far in space terms] All those beautiful images from the Hubble are good example of time... most of those photos are so far away its taken millions of years to reach us and some of those stars have exploded centuries ago.

There is one picture on that Hubble demo video that shows a field of galaxies. At the bottom of the picture is a tiny little yellow square. [about an eighth of an inch] This square represents the area of the sky that the photo covers. In that photo they counted 1500 galaxies. Talk about that Hay Stack...


HUBBLE VIDEO


far enough away that radio signals took 1000 years to get here, developed and used radio for 2 centuries before moving on to something else.


Does someone out there have the figures handy of how many stars are in a 1000 year radius of earth, and how far into our galaxy that reaches? We have been sending signals only a few hundred years so far, so it will be a while before anyone out there hears our little peeps.

But my main question is, has there been any way to prove that over such a vast distance, that we would be able to recognise a radio signal? with all the "space noise" from cosmic rays etc would they get through and still be recognizable?:puz



[edit on 1-7-2006 by zorgon]



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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Actually your wrong it is theoretically possible it's called quantum nonlocality or essentially subspace radio. Quantum teleportation is actually based off this concept. theoretically we could communicate in real time over the entire distance of the universe.


yes i have heard about this, but i thought we dont even have a theory on how to monitor or construct such a communications device, dont most scientists still think the light speed barrier is unbreakable, thus making the theory of faster than light communications somewhat invalid? I heard there were supposed to be special particles a bit like photons that actually do travel faster than light (i forget what these are called).

Hmm, but quantum teleportation, I remember hearing something about this also, i havent looked into it huge amounts but sounds like a good work around..

I hear the energy required to make such a device would be staggering, it would be like trying to hook up a bunch of suncores to get enough energy to power it. Also, dont you have to move the exit warp point into position before you can warp there?

[edit on 1-7-2006 by Insolubrious]

[edit on 1-7-2006 by Insolubrious]



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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"So you think that a civilization is going to magically go from nothing to a type of communication we can't detect? Our television signals are still going out into space from decades ago. Any civilization advanced enough to have television is going to have signals going into space that are detectable. Those signals will travel for a long time, all it takes is an antenna in the right place to detect them."

Basically yes we will do the same almost overnight. By the time an alien race hears our radio we will have advanced thousands of years. Life in the universe is a rarity out of 4 trillion stars 10 thousand probably contain life and that includes planets with advanced civilization equall or beyond us. finding another advanced civilization is only a dream one that will not be reckognized for a few hundred years of more.



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 06:37 PM
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With the techniques for discovering extra-solar planets becoming more advanced, I think it more likely (in my opinion), that finding another intelligent civilation will come by optical means rather than by radio.

When the Kepler mission is launched, it's primary purpose will be looking for Earth-sized planets within the habitable zone of stars.

One of the first steps will be finding an extra-solar planet with an atmosphere containing oxygen via spectral analysis.

As our optical techniques become more advanced, maybe we'll even locate a large artificial structure in orbit around a star or extra-solar planet.


Here's a website regarding searches for Dyson Spheres that have already been conducted.

home.fnal.gov...

And here's a link to another pdf abstract about it:

alglobus.net...


[edit on 1-7-2006 by Junkheap]



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 07:19 PM
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If we found anything it would be a Dyson Sphere... Only because of their sheer size think about it a huge sphere constructed around an entire star to harness it's energy.

Of course that is an indication of a type 3 civilization as opposed to humans which are type zero but moving into type 1.

Think about it a structure that could be as big or bigger then our entire solar system.

I remember watching an episode of Star Trek: TNG that featured a Dyson Sphere.



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