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Any 9\11 conspiracy debunk topics should be closed and the author banned

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posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 11:03 PM
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Thanks, Fr. Luke Duke.

What exactly I plan to do with an advanced degree at my age boggles the mind. I was planning on retiring from the company next year and going back to teach school for three years (until 65). But I figure staying with the factory will pay more than retirement plus teaching, and I still have a 12-grade daughter to help through college (although she's on track to get a full ride to Arizona State). I do get a hundred shares of stock as a "graduation present" (which I can't spend for three years or until I retire, whichever comes first).

But I am not going to go back for any other degree; all my edjimacashun from now on will be fun courses with my wife at a local junior college. I might try to wangle a course or two with my daughter when and if, but will definitely not take any courses with my son who is taking the same horrid engineering courses I took and despised when I was in my early forties.




posted on Jul, 2 2006 @ 11:04 PM
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I believe the whole premise that this string is based on is completely flawed. Not all conspiracies are patently true just because a group of people believe it to be true. In fact entire portions of the theories can be wrong from the start and the believers have convinced themselves so thoroughly it is true, that they won’t even look at evidence to the contrary.

Here is a classic example of what I am saying (actually look at the links or you will be guilty of what I am saying and helping to prove I’m right).

The first link is to a thread on one of the 9/11 conspiracy subjects posted by “CatHerder”. The posts I’m referring to are on pages 2 and 3. Posted by “johnlear” and “Skibum”. The third link is “Skibum” responding by posting a link to information that relates to the post by “johnlear”. link one

The second link is a post by “johnlear”.
link two

The third link is “Skibum” responding by posting a link to information that relates to the post by “johnlear”.
link three

The fourth link is to a post by “johnlear” four hours after “Skibum’s” post. He has clearly either ignored the link or looked at the site and has for some reason chosen to pretend he did not see it or he did not want to see it.
link four

The fifth link is “Skibum” reposting the link “johnlear” either missed, ignored on purpose or pretended it did not exist because it ran counter to his theory.
link five

The sixth link is “johnlear” more than a hour later where he tackles another subject and still does not respond to the answer to a question he posed in the first place.
link six

I’m now up to page 15, 6 days later and it appears that “johnlear” never did “regroup”. “Skibum however stays actively involved throughout the discussion.

I am not attacking anyone here. I pulled this out as an example only, as it relates to the 9/11 conspiracies. It shows how ignoring someone you don’t agree with can limit your ability to glean fact from fiction. The human mind is a flawed device. We can brainwash ourselves as well as others when we let emotion enter the equation. We can convince ourselves that lies are so true that even when we see proof it just does not register. New people should be embraced as a source of new thought and not rejected. Their minds have not yet reached the point at which personal prejudice takes over and they are still asking fresh questions.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by warthog911
....................
Son we did months and months of research and most if not all of the senior members like me know what really happened on 9\11.I propose to ban all members/threads as they are nothing but dis info agents.
.....................


How about you get banned for proposing to ban members who disagree with you?......

There are many threads in ATSNN and ATS about 9/11 and every topic in between, and many times have such theories that there were bombs, and the attack was not done by Muslim extremists have been debunked several times...

We even have people like SO who has said that, if i remember correctly, he has a friend who saw the 757 (?...can't remember which one it was now, too late for me) fly into the Pentagon, but despite this and other evidence which shows that it was a passenger plane which flew into the Pentagon, there are people who want to claim it was not..

If you want to take Alex Jones as "the source for truth", so be it, it is your choice... I see Alex Jones just as another person who is trying to deny the truth and wants instead to write his own story, no matter how distorted it is, as to what happened and what is happening in the U.S. because he has an agenda....

If you think like him that going to Chavez and asking him to help you find the truth about 9/11 is going to show anything else than the biased version of what Chavez and people like Alex Jones want you to believe...you are delluding yourself...

I have seen people in these forums come up with theories that do not stand up to reason, nor are backed by real science, yet according to them, "it is the truth and nothing but the truth"....


Some people will believe whatever they want to believe, even if the proof that contradicts what they believe is right in front of them.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Muaddib

There are many threads in ATSNN and ATS about 9/11 and every topic in between, and many times have such theories that there were bombs, and the attack was not done by Muslim extremists have been debunked several times...
Please provide all of these threads that you speak of.

Debunk this.



The Fictitious Hijackers


If 19 Arabs hijacked the planes, why are there no Arabic names on any of the passenger lists?
If they used non-Arabic aliases, which of the "innocents " on the lists are alleged to be the hijackers?

3:1 www.cnn.com...
Passenger and crew list for AA 11 (first WTC crash.)


3:2 www.cnn.com...
AA 77 (Pentagon crash)


3:3
www.cnn.com...
UAL 175 (2nd WTC crash)


3:4 www.cnn.com...
UAL 93 (Pennsylvania crash)


If they are alleged to have been using non-Arabic aliases (19 obviously Arabic men got on board using non-Arabic ID, with 100% success rate ?), why did the FBI claim that they were traced through the use of credit cards to buy tickets in their own names?


If 9 of the alleged hijackers were searched before boarding, as claimed in this article 3:5 www.policetalk.com... why is there no airport security footage of them? How did they (allegedly) get on board with knives, guns, AND electronic guidance systems, while being searched, but avoiding security cameras and not being on the passenger lists?
What aliases were they alleged to be using when they were searched, and if they were not using aliases, why are they not on the passenger lists?



What of reports that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive, and had nothing to do with the attacks ?

3:6 news.bbc.co.uk...
3:7 www.rense.com...
3:8 www.muslimedia.com...
3.12 www.welfarestate.com...
3.13 truedemocracy.net...
3.16 www.worldmessenger.20m.com...

Source


Where is the evidence against Bin laden?

edit to remove dead links



[edit on 3/7/2006 by Sauron]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
Right now, the irony in this thread is so thick you could cut it with a knife.


Amen, Majic, Amen.


And Skadi, no problemo. After all, everyone thought it, I was just the first one to say it. Sometimes, I wonder about people like this. It boggles the mind that anyone can be that ignorant to the simplest of concepts.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron
If 19 Arabs hijacked the planes, why are there no Arabic names on any of the passenger lists?
[edit on 3/7/2006 by Sauron]


You are not talking about the passenger manifests, just the names which where released of passengers so people knew if someone familiar to them had died.
The terrorists where not considered either normal passengers or citizens but TERRORISTS. Or would you like their names up on the memorial wall?

It would do CT well to read both sceptic sites and conspiracy sites. Unlike conspiracy sites, sceptic sites usually do their own research, instead of paste-and-copying bits of text from other sites, so as to lure blissfully ignorant people into thinking that it must be fact, since so many sites claim it to be.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:55 AM
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How about you get banned for proposing to ban members who disagree with you?......


I believe in the freedom of speech for everybody like I believe that that passport flew out of that terrorists pocket and onto the street below just like I believe that other passport at the pentagon survived that explosion, too: which is not at all. Everybody has the right to believe this if they choose, but they better not be making any important decisions, or voting, or doing anything else that somehow affects me and my well-being.

There's a fine line that people are missing on this issue, it's that it's not about shutting anyone down who disagrees with you but shutting someone down who is flat out WRONG; especially with something this serious. If you haven't figured it out then then you probably suffer from flat-out ignorance, apathy, or disinfo. Reading some of the crap from people who believe they've debunked 9/11 makes me so mad you'd laugh if you saw me when I read it because I type with one hand and clutch my chest in the throes of a heart attack with the other. The arrogance in their typings and the pride... and then they have the gall to say we're the arrogant ones because we think we're so smart? It's not that we think we're smart, it's that we think you're not.

Like I said though, I can't wait for them to find out how little they know. Not much longer now.


[edit on 3-7-2006 by iamjman]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:13 AM
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"There's a fine line that people are missing on this issue, it's that it's not about shutting anyone down who disagrees with you but shutting someone down who is flat out WRONG; especially with something this serious. If you haven't figured it out then then you probably suffer from flat-out ignorance, apathy, or disinfo. Reading some of the crap from people who believe they've debunked 9/11 makes me so mad you'd laugh if you saw me when I read it because I type with one hand and clutch my chest in the throes of a heart attack with the other. The arrogance in their typings and the pride... and then they have the gall to say we're the arrogant ones because we think we're so smart? It's not that we think we're smart, it's that we think you're not."

It is not your place to say who's smart and who's not. It's a god damn forum if you don't like it the screw off and stop being ignorant yourself. There is a difference between attacking what people say as opposed to character assassination and out right supression.

You are arrogant and your clearly not that smart, I do support the truth movement but I will refuse to associate myself with ignorant pricks like you and others who share your views regarding the subject of supression.

There is a simple solution to your problem it's called ignore, don't read and don't give them attention. By continuing your childish pathetic temper tantrum because sommeone said something you didn't like is hurting the rest of the truth movement.

I think the mods should lock this thread and give you a warning simply due to your attacks on an entire group of people here on these boards.

Who cares seriously why even continue this thread why not quit while you ahead before your stanky thread uses up even more valuable bandwidth. Face it you can't win the battle here on ATS it is pointless.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by warthog911
This newbies think that they know everyting.This website has been attacked soo many times by forumites who think and will make you forcibly think that 9\11 was not an inside job.Threads like"screw loose change",9\11 consipracy is nonsense" makes me puke.Son we did months and months of research and most if not all of the senior members like me know what really happened on 9\11.I propose to ban all members/threads as they are nothing but dis info agents.This website's motto is deny ignoranace and making topics which debunk 9\11 attacks are just plain desperation by these neo cons cuz they know that thier NWO will fail.

The dragon will be slayed


[edit on 29-6-2006 by warthog911]

[edit on 30-6-2006 by warthog911]

Thisis the most rediculous idea I have ever seen in my 2-3 years of being on ATS.

You're proposing that we suppress other people because they don't coincide with you're opinions. You might argue competition, but what you're saying exactly is this "I don't like people who don't agree with me, they should be banned!"

Normally, I wouldn't car,e normally looking at these kinds of threads I would turn a blind eye, I would let people think whatever they want, who am I to oppress their opinions? But you, you just take the cake.

And Sauron, I don't think those links are passenger manifests, and I don't think the FAA would release Passenger Manifests on CNN.

Shattered OUT...

[edit on 3-7-2006 by ShatteredSkies]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 08:52 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron

Debunk this.



The Fictitious Hijackers


If 19 Arabs hijacked the planes, why are there no Arabic names on any of the passenger lists?
If they used non-Arabic aliases, which of the "innocents " on the lists are alleged to be the hijackers?

3:1 www.cnn.com...victims.html
Passenger and crew list for AA 11 (first WTC crash.)
..............................................
If they are alleged to have been using non-Arabic aliases (19 obviously Arabic men got on board using non-Arabic ID, with 100% success rate ?), why did the FBI claim that they were traced through the use of credit cards to buy tickets in their own names?


If 9 of the alleged hijackers were searched before boarding, as claimed in this article 3:5 www.policetalk.com... why is there no airport security footage of them? How did they (allegedly) get on board with knives, guns, AND electronic guidance systems, while being searched, but avoiding security cameras and not being on the passenger lists?
What aliases were they alleged to be using when they were searched, and if they were not using aliases, why are they not on the passenger lists?



What of reports that some of the alleged hijackers are still alive, and had nothing to do with the attacks ?

3:6 news.bbc.co.uk...
3:7 www.rense.com...
3:8 www.muslimedia.com...
3.12 www.welfarestate.com...
3.13 truedemocracy.net...
3.16 www.worldmessenger.20m.com...

Source


Where is the evidence against Bin laden?


.....First of all, perhaps if you would have read the name of the links themselves you might realize what that list is all about..... VICTIMS........ The terrorists were not VICTIMS they were the cause of the deaths of the VICTIMS......

As for "there being names of people who are alive and who have supposedly the same names of some of the hihjackers", I have explained this before. Arab names are not like westerner names. Their names are very long and it describes who they are, it gives them an attribute they are supposed to have, and give the entire lineage of their forefathers before them. That's the true Arab name Arab people have, but all Arab people who have WESTERNER PASSPORTS have to shorten their names to fit with the requirements of Passports, hence their names are shorten and hence there are Arab people out there who have the same name in their passport....

This has been explained by me and some other people in the past, yet some members try to continue to use the excuse that you claim....

Do a search into Arab names and their westernized version and you will see why there are Arab people walking around with western passports who have the same name as other Arab people have..

[edit on 3-7-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by iamjman
No, we propose quieting anyone who doesn't know what the hell they're talking about; their numbers are plentiful and the damage they inflict accumulates quickly. Some people just need to shut up already for the sake of the greater good. In order for the freedom of speech to exist without disastrous results there needs to be a heightened sense of responsibility, and as you should probably be able to tell the vast, vast, VAST majority of people out there don't give a damn about anything except getting theirs.

Debunkers don't bother me. Any real truth seeker will dig, and dig to find the truth.


Damn some people just don't understand...

[edit on 2-7-2006 by iamjman]


You are so funny! You talk just like people on rightwing forums! Except they are talking about silencing people like you. How ironic. It's almost creepy really.


Ram

posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by The_Doctor
Who cares seriously why even continue this thread why not quit while you ahead before your stanky thread uses up even more valuable bandwidth. Face it you can't win the battle here on ATS it is pointless.


Doctor you are making a good point...
BUT..but but...but and but.


yea..A good point..

But..
This is tricky...

It's all about communication - And it's just not here.
Communication is just gone...It's like speaking to the winds..Oh you hear the leafs on the trees and they whisper - can you hear it - what they say.?. ect..

Things make no sense...
We are frustrated cause we are split up.. And i think we have been split up by the Leaders of this world. Blowing up people - sending people to war - Creating monsters - learning to kill one another mentaly and phisically..

We can't communicate with the people on the other side of the fence - And on my side of the fence we saw two skyscrapers destroyed by explosions and thermite... That's why we can't really listen to the people on the other side of the fence cause they are talking like the media does... And here on this side we - think that is brainwash...
We think they brainwash the whole planet at their best abilities... So why would we listen to them...
Most of us originally came from the other side of the fence...Where we believed everything they told us...Or just let it happend and where reasured that the Leaders of this world did their Leader job - while we did our normal-Job's...
But some of us - suddently woke up.. On the other side of the fence wondering : "why the world suddently looked so sinister from over here"
The Leaders where all into it - They where setting up wars, and where really massmurderes in nice clothing...
It's the problem - It's like a tomato thrown out of a tall building - and i smashes to the ground..."Splat!"
Did we expect that? Ground meetes Tomato - splat??!
How can that be? why does it splat?



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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OK guys, discuss the topic, not each other. Frankly we aren't that interesting.

The_Doctor, as a new member you were given some slack. The next time you refer to any member(s) as "pricks" you WILL be warned. That is NOT the decorum of ATS members. Guide yourself accordingly.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
OK guys, discuss the topic, not each other. Frankly we aren't that interesting.

The_Doctor, as a new member you were given some slack. The next time you refer to any member(s) as "pricks" you WILL be warned. That is NOT the decorum of ATS members. Guide yourself accordingly.

This thread's only purpose is to put down a certain group of members on ATS, why has this thread been allowed to go on for as long as it has?

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

This thread's only purpose is to put down a certain group of members on ATS, why has this thread been allowed to go on for as long as it has?

Shattered OUT...


The main point of this thread was to silence those members. As long as the members remain within the T&C's of the board they will not be silenced.

This thread is turning ugly though with name calling and bad manners towards each other. It may have to be closed on those grounds.

wupy



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 05:22 PM
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Muaddib those are the passenger lists, got that.
Now you say they used American names LOL your to much, your own FBI said they used there real names.
Show me the threads that you claim to debunk from ATSNN and other forums, I'll tell you now there are zero, zip,
Show me the money, show me where the US government has issued an arrest warrant for USAMA BIN LADEN
because of 911, guess what you can't there never was one.

Come on Muaddid show me the evidence Bush has to prove Bin laden was behind 911.


Show me the proof Muaddib put your evidence where you mouth is.



[edit on 3/7/2006 by Sauron]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 06:12 PM
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This thread's only purpose is to put down a certain group of members on ATS, why has this thread been allowed to go on for as long as it has?


OhoHo! That'd be real convenient, wouldn't it? "OooH, why do you want to put us down? Why do you want to silence the people with opinions different than you?"

Everything in life is not so damn black and white. I'm not talking about silencing people that have opinions that are different than me: dialogue is a critical ingredient of prosperity. It's when these people who are flat out WRONG start preventing justice from getting served because they can't understand why those buildings shouldn't have fallen so fast. Then these people get to thinking that it's their duty to try and smack this movement down.

It flat out disgusts me at how obvious this demolition was but how so many people don't believe it. What disgusts me even more is the tolerance that we show these people, and how so many people who DO know aren't as outspoken as they should be. The same blanket freedoms that we've granted to every US citizen have also been granted to our enemies. I'm not talking about zero-tolerance on nonconformity like so many simple-minded people imagine. I'm talking about people not being so damn stupid for once and developing a sense of responsibility. That true ignorance be smacked down instead of tolerated and even pampered like it is all over this site.

It seems that the angry name-calling people are frustrated because nobody gives a damn about anything important anymore except when it affects their lives, while the stupid people relax knowing that they will "always" be the majority by default. It's a vicious cycle, and the only people who seem to be intolerant of others are the ones who really, truly care about what's going on and what's going to happen.

Hey though, nobody's perfect. I myself wish I had a list of all the debunkers in my area so that when our country really begins falling apart and we're in some major holy war between Christians and Muslims, because of everything that's going on and how 9/11 kicked it off, I could smash some faces in and say "NOW DO YOU KNOW????" But hey, that's not slowly happening, LOL, right?

[edit on 3-7-2006 by iamjman]



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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"OK guys, discuss the topic, not each other. Frankly we aren't that interesting.

The_Doctor, as a new member you were given some slack. The next time you refer to any member(s) as "pricks" you WILL be warned. That is NOT the decorum of ATS members. Guide yourself accordingly."

Funny how i get warned for one insult yet a couple of guys here are insulting an entire group of people who's opinions are different. I say you should give others warnings as well.

If you going to give me a warning you should give the others who are insulting warnings as well. Since insults of any kind I beleive are 'NOT' the decorum of ATS members and a few are not guiding themselves accordingly.

It is in my opinion that you should not be a mod since I feel you are doing a deplorable job. Warning me for one word yet not taking care of the babies here who are having hissy fits cause they can't handle what they read. Do your freakin job as a mod or step aside and let someone else do it. I am sure their are others here on ATS (me excluded) who could do your job better.



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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Originally posted by mrwupy

The main point of this thread was to silence those members. As long as the members remain within the T&C's of the board they will not be silenced.

This thread is turning ugly though with name calling and bad manners towards each other. It may have to be closed on those grounds.

wupy


Even moderators can be wrong, and you are wrong as to the purpose of this thread. The member who started this thread has been repeatedly insulting and asking for the banning of anyone who refutes and does not believe the theory that "the wtc must only have been brought down by explosives"... or any of the other theories which this particular member believes in.

This thread should have been closed since it was started, and the member should have been given a warning, because of the insults, and baiting attempts at those who disagree with the member who started this thread....



posted on Jul, 3 2006 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Sauron
Muaddib those are the passenger lists, got that.
Now you say they used American names LOL your to much, your own FBI said they used there real names.


.....who said those were not their real names?.... the names on their passports are the shorter version of their long names....

ok, here is what I wrote almost two months ago about this same topic...and you were part of that thread btw...


The construction of Arab names is totally different from westerners names. They don't have First, Middle and last name, but instead have a chain of names which gives the names their father, their grand-father, their great-grandfather, etc all the way back to their roots. It also includes a description of the person, if they have a first born, and the place where they were born or the family/tribe to which they were born.

The first name, or main name (ism) of an Arab person are Arabic words which have a meaning and give character to the person.

For example Ali (elevated), or Abdul (slave of).

Normally after the "ism" comes the "nasab". (unless this person already has had his first born) The "nasab" is a chain of names which tells the heritage of the person and names their ancestors. The "nasab" uses the word "ibn" (sometimes bin/Bin) to indicate this heritage. Ibn/Bin means "son of".

For Example: Ali Ibn Amin ibn Afzal ibn Shaif ibn Qasim ibn Hasan ibn Yousaf.

A full Arab name wouldn't end there, but this is an example of the nasab. The above would mean "Ali son of Amin son of Afzal son of Shaif son of Qasim son of Hasan son of Yousaf".

In Arab names you also have the "laqab" which gives a description of the person. The "laqab" can be easily identificated because it always starts with "al", for example "al-Rashid" which means "the righteous" (in the true Arab form it is an "l" and not "al" meaning "the") The laqab goes right after the "ism", but the laqab is not always used in Arab names.

For example" Ali al-Rashid Ibn Amin ibn Afzal ibn Shaif ibn Qasim ibn Hasan ibn Yousaf . Which would mean "Ali the righteous son of Amin son of Afzal son of Shaif son of Qasim son of Hasan son of Yousaf.

But it doesn't end there either. After the "laqab" there is also the "nisba" which can describe a person's occupation, tribe/family or geographical area. For example a Palestinian would be known as al-Filastini (the Palestinian), and his full name would be as follows. Ali al-Rashid Ibn Amin ibn Afzal ibn Shaif ibn Qasim ibn Hasan ibn Yousaf al-Filastini

Arab names change, as for example when a Muslim becomes a father for the first time, when they have their first born. When this happens a Kunya is used in front of the Ism. The "kunya" precedes the "ism" with Abu which means "father of"

So our friend Ali al-Rashid's full name would after having his first born "Salim" change into: Abu Salim Ali al-Rashid Ibn Amin ibn Afzal ibn Shaif ibn Qasim ibn Hasan ibn Yousaf al-Filastini.

You can see that this would be a big confusion and more so when an Arab person is applying for a Visa or a Passport. So when Arab people apply for a Visa or Passport, their names are shorten, and our friend Ali might choose to be known in the western world as "Abu Salim" (father of Salim) or Ali al-Rashid (Ali the righteous), or even Ali al-Filastini (Ali the Palestinian). The problem comes when you have 100 Ali al Rashid, or Ali al-Filistani, or even Abu Salim.

So, can there be more than one Arab person with the same westernized name? YES.....


www.abovetopsecret.com...



Originally posted by Sauron
Show me the threads that you claim to debunk from ATSNN and other forums, I'll tell you now there are zero, zip,
Show me the money, show me where the US government has issued an arrest warrant for USAMA BIN LADEN
because of 911, guess what you can't there never was one.

Come on Muaddid show me the evidence Bush has to prove Bin laden was behind 911.


Show me the proof Muaddib put your evidence where you mouth is.


.....what is this a high school pissing contest?... Sauron, several times now have other members and I put forth evidence "backed by real science" which has debunked most if not all of the wild theories some of you keep claiming about 9/11. But of course since you want to believe that "it could only have been the government and only explosives could have done it" you, and others like you will never understand what the evidence is saying....

Let me show some examples of debunked claims which you yourself believed about, or still believe....

About the claim that no 757 hit the Pentagon... I am only excerpting the question and the conclusion because there is too much information and photos given in that site.


Pentagon & Boeing 757 Engine Investigation


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've seen pictures of engine wreckage at the Pentagon after 9/11. Your site says the engine of a 757 is over 6 feet across but this piece is way smaller than that. Does it prove that whatever hit the Pentagon was not a 757 and the government is lying about it?
- Leroy Mulligan

The page you refer to discusses the diameter of the engines used aboard the Boeing 757. What is not explicitly stated in that article is that the dimensions discussed refer only to the maximum diameter of the engine and not the widths of the various components within.
..........................
To give a better idea of how the three engine components we have discussed relate to one another, the above image shows a diagram of the high pressure system within the RB211-535 engine. Also included are the objects identified in the Pentagon wreckage and their relative locations within the engine. As discussed in the main article, all three of these pieces of debris are identical matches to or at least consistent with the components found in the Rolls-Royce RB211-535 turbofan aboard a Boeing 757.

www.aerospaceweb.org...

I am not even going to go over in detail about the "theory and claim" by some members who also claim to know science real well...., that because somehow according to them, it is impossible for such a structure as the WTC to have made so much noise and caused so much damage at the same time... there must have been explosives... or that the collapsing building did not have enough potential energy to make the lower floors collapse subsequently....


I have even seen these same people claim that the potential energy of the falling debris was attenuated when part of the potential energy became sound...which is total bs and shows a total lack of understanding as how sound is produced..

And after that a member claims that if you do not believe all of the above and other fantastical claims you must be an idiot or a government agent or both....
oh boy.....

As for the evidence that Osama Bin Laden was behind the 9/11 attacks...


Spain's 11 September 'connection'

The start of Europe's largest trial of al-Qaeda members is the result of a long investigation led by renowned Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon.

Mr Garzon began his inquiry into Spain's emerging Islamist network five years before the 11 September 2001 attacks that hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the US.

Two months after the attacks, the first arrests were made - and his investigation took on a new sense of urgency.

By September 2003, his 692-page-long findings listed Osama Bin Laden among the 35 people charged with terror-related offences, including the 11 September plot. The list was later expanded to include 41 individuals.

Bin Laden remains at large and Spanish law does not allow for trial in absentia.

But the 24 people in the dock in April 2005 included the alleged leader of the Spanish al-Qaeda operation - Syrian-born Immad Eddim Barakat Yarkas, 42, also known as Abu Dahdah.

news.bbc.co.uk...


[edit on 3-7-2006 by Muaddib]



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