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insurgent offer to americans.

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posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:35 PM
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news article

its a really interesting offer. Do you think the US will buy into it and withdraw in two years. I think thats the timetable we were going for anyway. Any opinions here?

[edit on 28-6-2006 by truttseeker]

[edit on 28-6-2006 by truttseeker]

[edit on 28-6-2006 by truttseeker]




posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:30 AM
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The offer in question should be ignored aside from the fact that you never given in to the demands of terrorists. If the coalition was to leave Iraq in three the whole place would fall like a deck of cards and a Saddam clone would come to power.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 12:35 AM
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External Source


In Washington, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said that President Bush’s “view has been and remains that a timetable is not something that is useful. It is a signal to the enemies that all you have to do is just wait and it’s yours.

“The goal is not to trade something off for something else to make somebody happy, the goal is to succeed,” he said.

Bush has said U.S. troops will remain in Iraq for years to guarantee the success of the new Iraqi government. However, American military officials have said substantial reductions of the current force of 127,000 U.S. troops could be made before the end of 2007.



I sincerely hope this is merely the administrations way of saying they don't know "what" to do yet. Of course it would seem weak of them to immediately compromise, and hurt their image of "staying the course". However, if this becomes a viable solution in the future I certainly hope they consider it, for the sake of Iraqi civilians and Our Troops!


On a side note, I think it's funny, it seems the insurgent groups have learned how to play politics. The "pull out" debate has been coming to a head lately here in the "States". Is it simply a coincidence that they drop this on us now?



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:20 AM
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xpert11 Don't you think it would be good for Iraqis if a Saddam 2 came to power? Like a natural leader and able to bring about a sence of order, maybe a rubbish collection or two? Perhaps even a prison containing guilty men, not pawns for realese whenever we bargin with terrorists and bargin with lives?

Iraq was clearly better under Saddam for just about all concerned accept the Kurds. 60 percent of its population is religious fundermentalists so isn't it better if we put a secular dictator in place; rather than let them choose a leader who will bond with Iran ever closer.
I think that if we withdraw from Iraq, invade Iran then we will need to invade Iraq again because I believe the calls of iraq's so called politicans (many of them holy men) can and will guide the impoverished masses to attack us.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:39 AM
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Do people honestly think that the Americans are going to leave Iraq alone?

Especially while they have been making one of the largest forign millitry bases in American history outside there own country in Iraq.

They are building a base that big not so they can abandon it but so they can stay permenently in Iraq. The Americans are never going to leave Iraq. Although they may reduce the pressence of there troops by reducing there numbers they will never truely leave Iraq ever or maybe they will once the oil runs out But defently not before.

Also while they have been squeezing the Iranians they might need to stick around in the region to attack the Iranians.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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My best guess is that we'll be there for 15 years at least... That's roughly how long we've been sending troops to Bosnia since their war. I wish we could pull everyone out of there, but it's not realistic. I haven't agreed with the war since it started, but now that we're there we can't very well leave everything in ruins. That would just lead to the complete collapse of Iraq. The offer is an interesting one, though. I wonder what made them think that we'd just say "Oh, okay. Since you asked so nice we'll leave now." It's just not practical.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 08:10 AM
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The insurgents are fanatical, cold blooded killers & they look for excuses to kill & rationalise it in their own warped reality. They are murdering innocent people randomly to create fear & instability.

Do you think that if the US leaves Iraq then the insurgents are all gonna go get jobs and try live a quite life. Once a terrorist, always a terrorist.

They would just look for another excuse to kidnap, kill & make demands.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 08:36 AM
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to Zanem

are you living in a bubble?

There are multiple groups operating in Iraq. Some will kill anyone while other will only ever attack soldiers. Of america was to leave the majority of groups will just stop fighting becuase there are no more soldiers to attack. Some will continue fighting but will instantly loose support becuase there support base comes from the idea that America is occupying Iraq.

They will die out sooner or later. Please don't group everybody in one large bubble.

American soldiers get attacked daily in legitimate attacks but these are never reported by the media only time something is reported is when a sucide bomb goes off. Infact the majority off attacks are aimed at American troops and only a handfull of attack are actually aimed at civillians which are nearly always carried out by some group linked to al-qeada while other groups rarely ever hit civillians ever.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 10:03 AM
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[Mod edit: removed unnecessary quote of Entire preceeding post]


I would suggest going cnn.com & checkout Iraq news articles for the past 3 weeks. Almost every day there terrorist atrocities commited against civilians. Yes we always hear about IED's too aimed at US & Coalition troops but the greatest casualties are civilians.

For example, 23 students were kidnapped and shot in the street by masked gunmen.
A tennis coach was murdered for wearing shorts because it is a "western concept".
Numerous drive-by shootings almost daily. Including the ones listed in the original news article. -

"And at least six other deaths were reported in the capital, including two merchants, a baker, an electrical worker and a woman sitting in her car with three of her sons, who were wounded. Police also found the body of a man who had been blindfolded, handcuffed and shot in the head in western Baghdad."

These are the sensless murders that I was referring to...I am not in a bubble I assure you. The insurgents are and they will continue to be until its popped.

THEY WILL NEVER STOP BEING TERRORISTS. Yes there are multiple groups, 11 listed in the article. They will always make an excuse to kill someone. Right now they want the US out. When they leave, they will target whatever they feel is neccessary and it wont stop.

They enjoy doing this and they wont stop it will just be directed in another path.



Mod Edit: Quoting on ATS – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 6/29/2006 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Is anyone else tired of hearing people claim what they could possibly never know. (i.e. Terririst will wait for us to leave then take over the country, they will never stop killing, they will come here and kill us). I am a surprised that we have so many fortune tellers in the world. Now I know that our government is the key reason behind this tactic. (i.e. If we don't fight them inIraq, we will have to fight them at home, Iran will build the nuke with their technology) This is all speculative assertion land for me and I can't believe people buy into it so much.

We told the world that Iraq had WMD's, they didn't! We told the world that Saddam had ties with Osama... He didn't (Saddam was secular). The list goes on...

The last terror attack on US before the curious 9/11 was done by Americans.

And for the idea that American troops will leave Iraq? Someone tell me what country out there that we've liberayed by war, has none of our soldiers still in it. ALL! (I'm guessing here but pretty positive). We're never leaving and Bush Co. know this!

Please, people, put yourself in the shoes of others before you make your case. That is all I'm asking... Peace, AAC



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 04:00 PM
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Before alot of you go all knee-jerk on this because "the terrorists will never stop" or what not, I think we should look at this compromise a little more in depth. I think the two year waiting period would allow us to see if this is feasible and gives us time to decide whether they are holding up there end of this bargain. We are not being shnookered into an immediate withdrawal, only laying to rest the fears of native Arabic people that we are there to stay. Obviously if we did agree to this and the attacks continued for the two years we would never pull out. However if a good faith effort is made by these group, what decent choice do we have but to accept that out presence is the problem.

This deal would be wholly dependant on these groups willingness to "deal" and compromise and keep a peaceful nation running smoothly. Isn;t this what we were after all along?



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by rafermadness

This deal would be wholly dependant on these groups willingness to "deal" and compromise and keep a peaceful nation running smoothly. Isn;t this what we were after all along?


The problem is that this is 8 out of the maybe 11 or so groups that are over there. If they did agree, you know the other 3 or more will still not abide by the rules , so just as Israel does with the palestinians , the other 8 will get blamed for something the other 3 have done by some of the American public anyway even though possibly the 8 will probably abide by the agreement. They will be in convenient reach.


Pie



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Hey pie, I hear what you are saying, but consider this.



BAGHDAD, Iraq - Eleven Sunni insurgent groups have offered an immediate halt to all attacks — including those on American troops — if the United States agrees to withdraw foreign forces from Iraq in two years, insurgent and government officials told The Associated Press on Wednesday.


The Sunni insurgency plays a large part in the violence in Iraq. It also accounts for most of the "in house" fighting done by Iraqi Citizens. The Sunni's have a deep hatred for western influence in their lands and, by showing them we aren't there as invaders, we may very well make it easier to determine the foreign "terrorists" from the Iraqi "insurgents".

Wiki Source

Also, notice the three major groups that didn't sign off on this treaty,



The Islamic Army in Iraq, Muhammad Army and the Mujahedeen Shura Council — the umbrella group that covers eight militant groups including al-Qaida in Iraq — were not party to any offers to the government.


The Islamic Army is an al-Queda copy cat group that deals in kidnapping and executions.
Source

The Muhammad Army seems to be a group of Bathists that survived the downfall of Saddam's regime. They fight to destroy the new governemnt completly.Source

Lastly the Mujahedeen is the Big Dog in Iraq, the one that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi ran, and they have been working to rile up Sunni violence against the US.Source

If we could get the Sunni groups to stop joining forces with them , we might have a chance to pinpoint who the real instigators of all this are. This is a war of the minds as much as it is of weapons. Don't we need to do "something" to show those who are truly concerned about "their" country that we have good intentions?



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:38 AM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984

xpert11 Don't you think it would be good for Iraqis if a Saddam 2 came to power? Like a natural leader and able to bring about a sence of order, maybe a rubbish collection or two? Perhaps even a prison containing guilty men, not pawns for realese whenever we bargin with terrorists and bargin with lives?

Iraq was clearly better under Saddam for just about all concerned accept the Kurds. 60 percent of its population is religious fundermentalists so isn't it better if we put a secular dictator in place; rather than let them choose a leader who will bond with Iran ever closer.
I think that if we withdraw from Iraq, invade Iran then we will need to invade Iraq again because I believe the calls of iraq's so called politicans (many of them holy men) can and will guide the impoverished masses to attack us.


YEah sure iraq was better with saddam... I'm sure the #tes who were being ethnically cleansed would agree. And the kurds who lived autonomously and have a better standard of living then the rest of country were dying to give saddam control...

The only people who liked saddam was his power base and they are fighting to the death right now so that they can regain there lost power and be a small minority ruling with an iron fist.

And the gov of Iraq has not forgotten the reason they are in power and its not iran...



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by iqonx
to Zanem

are you living in a bubble?

There are multiple groups operating in Iraq. Some will kill anyone while other will only ever attack soldiers. Of america was to leave the majority of groups will just stop fighting becuase there are no more soldiers to attack. Some will continue fighting but will instantly loose support becuase there support base comes from the idea that America is occupying Iraq.

They will die out sooner or later. Please don't group everybody in one large bubble.

American soldiers get attacked daily in legitimate attacks but these are never reported by the media only time something is reported is when a sucide bomb goes off. Infact the majority off attacks are aimed at American troops and only a handfull of attack are actually aimed at civillians which are nearly always carried out by some group linked to al-qeada while other groups rarely ever hit civillians ever.



Yeah they must have been targeting americans when they started blowing up mosques and shooting up iraqis just trying to help rebuild their country...



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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Take a wild guess why the insurgents are offering a truce.......

Give up?

Cause they are getting their ass kicked. They have made no gains other then sensationalistic media success. THey are losing ground in the sunni area and they see the gov even though inexperienced and with its own issues as getting stronger and already beyond their control with such tactics as terror. When America leaves if the sunnis haven't joined up with the gov they will be squashed with no remorse by the kurds and shiites. And they know it, any demands they make are to save face by not just surrendering.

The sunnis are finally getting war weary like japan and germany, its taken a much greater toll on them now then the initial invasion. They are becomming hopeless otherwise the insurgency would not offer peace. Crush them now, break any hopes of victory today or someday.

The palestinians do it all the time with israel, it is there form of saying timeout. Cause as much as they play soldier they are not ready to take on anybody in an all out war.

Sure their bombs make TV news but they do not make any progress not in iraq not in afghanistan not with israel.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by iqonx
to Zanem

are you living in a bubble?

Infact the majority off attacks are aimed at American troops and only a handfull of attack are actually aimed at civillians which are nearly always carried out by some group linked to al-qeada while other groups rarely ever hit civillians ever.

You have this exactly backwards, Coalition troops are not targeted as much as civilians, because troops fight back. The insurgents are still trying to start a full-blown civil war, and they can't do that by attacking troops. They do that by murdering innocent civilians and destroying infrastructure.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by truttseeker
I think thats the timetable we were going for anyway. Any opinions here?

The idea of withdrawing if they have a cease fire is laughable. The US isn't there to make sure that the insurgents are quiet, the US is there to kill as many insurgents as possible, until the Iraqi government is capable of kiling and rooting out the insurgency on its own.

As far as a timetable, there were two bills in congress for that, both were rejected.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
xpert11 Don't you think it would be good for Iraqis if a Saddam 2 came to power? Like a natural leader and able to bring about a sence of order, maybe a rubbish collection or two? Perhaps even a prison containing guilty men, not pawns for realese whenever we bargin with terrorists and bargin with lives?


Is this some kind of sick joke ?
I grant you that Saddam was the glue that held the geographical area known as Iraq together otherwise he didnt do the population any favours. If a Saddam clone came to power guilty people wouldnt be in jail anybody who disagreed with the regime would be in a cell.

I think that it is very possible that a Saddam clone may be elected or overthrow the Iraqi government once the coalition leaves but I dont think that it is a good idea.



posted on Jul, 1 2006 @ 12:33 AM
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they should say yes they we will leave within 2 years, but the next time they attack us, send every soldier into as many houses as possible to take these people out



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