Putin orders Russian special services to kill iraqi kidnappers

I must agree about the generally accepted pressure on U.S. forces to do all they can to fight a humane war.
While I strongly believe that we should rise above and do all we can to protect the innocent,
we also know that insurgents will use human shields and hide where ever someone takes them in.

It may be stereotyping, but if Russian special forces enter the arena, I don't think they will
be as considerate.

Those guilty of terrorism must now consider that their entire family will be targeted.

Are we suddenly puffing up our chests and extolling virtues of war on Russia now?

They must be the baddest badasses around. Whooeee!

*--hogtie said it right : "They were working hard to help Saddam get the sensitive
stuff out of the country prior to the invasion". Helping whom?

If indeed Russia has their agents and advisors in place, good for them.

*--hogtie again : Front row seats ! Front row seats ! "They get to monitor our
equipment, our tactics, our information".

Although Russia deserves respect, let's not forget who's carrying most of the
load. The US has to dilute badass-ism with humane objectives.

You know, it is entirely possible that US troops could run afoul Russian operators, and vice versa. Kind of like the good old "bad old days" of the Cold War.

Originally posted by yanchek
Looks like nobody reads anymore.

From the article
Occupiers blamed
Separately, the lower house of the Russian parliament approved a statement condemning the killings, and appearing to blame Iraq's "occupying powers".

Interesting, no?

Well, there's the "official" diplomatic response, and then there's the stuff that you will never read about...

Ah yes... the occupying powers that cost the Russians billions in oil and weapons deals. When will we learn to stop our meddlin' ways? Its like we're in the Mystery Van with Scooby and the rest of the gang.

It is correct that American troops face a very tough war in Iraq, and one has to admire the regular American soldiers faced with this seemingly unsolvable quagmire. Unlike Russian wars in Afganistan and Chechnya, the Iraq war is fully monitored by every possible type of media in the world. US can't torture a mujahedeen without some news source breking the story. This openness of the war in Iraq is both good and bad. The good is that Americans cannot act completely inhumanely killing everyone left and right- and that is admirable. The bad is that it is now impossible for US to win this war.

Russia kept everything quiet on its actions in Afganistan and Chechnya. In fact during the Second Chechnyan War, there was a complete media blackout of the Chechnya region. No news operatives or independent reporters were allowed in the country without full supervision by the Russians. So the only news that got out, were those that Russia wanted to be released. That was the main determining tactic that resulted in what can be considered ultimate Russian victory in Chechnya. It was somewhat of a brainwashing campaign, where the rebels were dehumanized in every way possible, and eventually after Beslan lost all of support from the world.

Now I do not fully agree that what the Russians did there was good or justified. Many innocent people died. Crimes committed by Russians remain secret. It was as dirty as a war could get. But the mujahedeen are no less "clean", so one balances out the other. After all Russia could carpet bomb the whole state of Chechnya, and quickly finish the war (Chechnya is about the size of Rhode Island so this would not be too tough), but it didn't. The ultimate result is that Russia won what seemed like a quagmire war. Without this it would have probably not won. US cannot afford to do this, and would not be able to win in Iraq the way they are fighting now.



Overall I think that the whole Chechnya affair was the fault of the independence movement there. Yes many Soviet states quickly separated after the fall of the USSR. But it didn't mean that anyone who wanted independence could have it. Russia had to put a stop to disintegration somewhere- and Chechnya was the place. It was a very vital region, with major oil pipelines running through it. Russia could not afford to lose it, for many reasons. The Chechen rebels (or freedom fighters if you wish to call them that) perfectly knew this, and knew that it would lead them to a bloody war, yet they still went ahead with independence. Uncontent with simply announcing their newly formed nation, they decided to kick the Russian troops out from the bases in the region. They raided Russian ammo storages, put up roadblocks all over the region, told Russian troops to get out. And all this before the war even started. They provoked Russia to fight for keeping its nation in one piece.

How would American patriots feel, if suddenly one state after another started breaking off from USA. Even worse, separate counties in each state started proclaiming their independence from the state. Further still, cities and villages started claiming their right to be a sovereign nation. That is what started to happen in Russia, and it was rightly determined to keep the Federation in one piece, instead of turinging into 400 separate nations neither of which is capable of sustaining its safety or economy. Many people may want independence, but we cannot afford to give it to everyone.

[edit on 3-7-2006 by maloy]

This story was told to me by my history teacher several years back. I think it highlights the Russian way to solve a problem

Back in the late 60s early 70s terrorists (I can't remember if it was Hamas or Hezbolla) were targeting tourists that visited Israel in an attempt to hurt the Israeli tourism industry. After many of their citizens were killed, the western nations filied protests in the UN and made speeches and talked tough about justice. Still the targeting of tourists went on.

Once day a tourbus carrying Russian tourists was bombed and several Russians were killed. Not a word came from the Russian Government. Several days later, a note is left at the door of a high ranking terrorist leader saying simply to the effect of: "For every one of our citizens you have killed we have killed 2 of your people. You may pick them up at the following locations. . . "

They (Hamas or Hezbolla) recovered dozens of boxes filled with a hand of one man, a foot of another, a head of another, the arm of another, etc.

Afterwards, no other Russians were targeted.

So the moral is "Don't *&#$% with Mother Russia!"

Originally posted by Pragmatist Centrist
This story was told to me by my history teacher several years back. I think it highlights the Russian way to solve a problem

Back in the late 60s early 70s terrorists (I can't remember if it was Hamas or Hezbolla) were targeting tourists that visited Israel in an attempt to hurt the Israeli tourism industry. After many of their citizens were killed, the western nations filied protests in the UN and made speeches and talked tough about justice. Still the targeting of tourists went on.

Once day a tourbus carrying Russian tourists was bombed and several Russians were killed. Not a word came from the Russian Government. Several days later, a note is left at the door of a high ranking terrorist leader saying simply to the effect of: "For every one of our citizens you have killed we have killed 2 of your people. You may pick them up at the following locations. . . "

They (Hamas or Hezbolla) recovered dozens of boxes filled with a hand of one man, a foot of another, a head of another, the arm of another, etc.

Afterwards, no other Russians were targeted.

So the moral is "Don't *&#$% with Mother Russia!"

Yes I have heard similar stories like that, which is why I said when Rusia responds to terror it usually works. So it seems these people who killed the Rusian reporters have forgotten history. That is very bad to those of us who try to rember some of it. When this situation is resolved, its going to be ugly.

What puzzles me is why the Iraqies took the Russians hostage in the first place. Everyone already knows that Russia will not meet any demand by the terrorists. Russia opposed the war in Iraq, and even transfered some war intel to Saddam. Also there are far easier targets to attack in Iraq than a bullet proof car with Russian diplomats, who are only there to reprsent their country and have nothing to do with occupation forces. Iraq never had any ties with Chechnya, and Al Quida seems to have given up on Russia some time ago. The only thing this attack did, was get the attention of the Russians, which in my opinion is the last thing the terrorist need.

Originally posted by maloy
What puzzles me is why the Iraqies took the Russians hostage in the first place. Everyone already knows that Russia will not meet any demand by the terrorists. Russia opposed the war in Iraq, and even transfered some war intel to Saddam. Also there are far easier targets to attack in Iraq than a bullet proof car with Russian diplomats, who are only there to reprsent their country and have nothing to do with occupation forces. Iraq never had any ties with Chechnya, and Al Quida seems to have given up on Russia some time ago. The only thing this attack did, was get the attention of the Russians, which in my opinion is the last thing the terrorist need.

Maloy,
I dont think there have been more true words spoken
Nice post, for a very unforchant topic

Everyone on THIS PAGE is right!


Good job guys! Don't forget, though that some things DO happen in Iraq that are bad that you guys never find out about. So you can say that the situation in Iraq is ALL bad-Americans DO go around killing everyone they want, and they STILL can't win the war. What a bad situation.

Everybody might as well get out of Iraq now if US is going to continue its current strategy. This war cannot be won conventionally. US seriously needs to change its tactics to gain progress in their War On Terror, and assure the world that it still has what it takes to successfully police and globalize the world.

Some update:

Putin asks Federation Council to authorize force deployment abroad

MOSCOW. July 4 (Interfax) - Russian President Vladimir Putin has filed a draft decree with the Federation Council that would authorize the president to send armed forces or security forces units outside Russia to prevent international terrorist activities, presidential press secretary Alexei Gromov told journalists Tuesday.

This gives the right to president to use military special units such as GRU outside Russia in the peace time, Federation Council will give the approval in next meeting on July 7. So, maybe in the next months we will hear news about terrorists that shoot themselfs in the head then cut off their heads and finally blow up the house where it was done. Anyway special forces knows how to deal with them

I applaud Mr Putins response to the unfortunate situation, I served in Iraq and have seen first hand the vile attacks that the insurgency has put forth against our troops and against innocent civilians, whether they be foreign or citizens. Unfortunately in too many situations the US forces have been handcuffed by red tape and the " slap on the wrist " mentallity sent out by lawmakers here at home. Perhaps a bit of NO HOLDS BARRED retribution will cause them to think twice before they act next time, and eliminate that ideal that they can run ammuck and not pay for the evil that is done.TextTextText Red