9/11 conspiracies are nonsense

Originally posted by donk_316
This doesnt make sense...
I have been reading all the links posted and this is what your saying the "truth" is?


The USA knew there was going to be an attack by terrorists so they ignored it because it helped a lot of their causes

OR

The USA planted bombs and remote controlled some planes into the building.

OR

a combination of both??

because all the links and "coincidences" seem to almost contradict each other. There are links in this thread that point to both of these as being the issue. Seriously folks... what the hell?

Well that was the reason I started the thread, it doesn't make sense.

Now I have the absolute best question yet, so good in fact that I have asked it over a half a dozen times to different people including at least once in this thread and I was ignored every time.

here goes!


If the shadies hijacked the planes, and wanted to cause destruction and blame it on the harmless muzzies, why didn't they just crash the real planes? Why bother with fake planes? I dont get it. Is there a higher logic evading me?

Why bother going to all that trouble to fake planecrashes if you could crash the real deal? You could still lay bombs and all if you think it necessary.

[edit on 28-6-2006 by reallynobody]

Originally posted by MajesticJax
didn't mean to offend- he wrote a letter with his right hand as well as pointed, had a gold ring, and was substantially heavier, (body-weight), than ANY other Bin-Laden vidieo.

If that is true than that is the closest approximation of evidence so far. I wonder why though, the other bin laden clips where real right? So why fake one. Bin laden is not denying he did it. If he was, all clips would have been fake and nobody could tell the difference.

Hey Semiazas

Nothing is impossible, bad choice of words on my part

[edit on 28-6-2006 by bubbabuddha]

Its like people are trying so hard to prove a conspriacy that they have inadvertantly got enough for two possible answers... all supported by there "coincidences"...


Thermite? Yeah super easy to make.... too bad you need a Magnesium ribbon or something that burns white hot to ignite it or act like a fuse.

Originally posted by donk_316
Its like people are trying so hard to prove a conspriacy that they have inadvertantly got enough for two possible answers... all supported by there "coincidences"...


Thermite? Yeah super easy to make.... too bad you need a Magnesium ribbon or something that burns white hot to ignite it or act like a fuse.

Now now, I am not a fan of these conspiracy theories but there are ways to make thermite burn withouth magnesium. Not that I believe it was used, but I like facts to remain straight facts.


-------------

Challenges of igniting thermite
Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons.

Often, strips of magnesium metal are used as fuses. Magnesium burns at approximately the temperature at which thermite reacts, around 2500 Kelvin (4000 °F). This method is notoriously unreliable: magnesium itself is hard to ignite, and in windy or wet conditions the strip may be extinguished. Also, magnesium strips do not contain their own oxygen source so ignition cannot occur through a small hole. A significant danger of magnesium ignition is the fact that the metal is an excellent conductor of heat; heating one end of the ribbon may cause the other end to transfer enough heat to the thermite to cause premature ignition. Despite these issues, magnesium ignition remains popular amongst amateur thermite users.

The reaction between potassium permanganate and glycerine is used as an alternative to the magnesium method. When these two substances mix, a spontaneous reaction will begin, slowly increasing the temperature of the mixture until flames are produced. The heat released by the oxidation of glycerine is sufficient to initiate a thermite reaction. However, this method can also be unreliable and the delay between mixing and ignition can vary greatly due to factors such as particle size and ambient temperature.

Another method of igniting is to use a common sparkler to ignite the mix. These reach the necessary temperatures and provide a sufficient amount of time before the burning point reaches the sample.

en.wikipedia.org...

---------------



[edit on 28-6-2006 by reallynobody]

Originally posted by reallynobody

Originally posted by donk_316
Its like people are trying so hard to prove a conspriacy that they have inadvertantly got enough for two possible answers... all supported by there "coincidences"...


Thermite? Yeah super easy to make.... too bad you need a Magnesium ribbon or something that burns white hot to ignite it or act like a fuse.

Now now, I am not a fan of these conspiracy theories but there are ways to make thermite burn withouth magnesium. Not that I believe it was used, but I like facts to remain straight facts.


-------------

Challenges of igniting thermite
Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons.

Often, strips of magnesium metal are used as fuses. Magnesium burns at approximately the temperature at which thermite reacts, around 2500 Kelvin (4000 °F). This method is notoriously unreliable: magnesium itself is hard to ignite, and in windy or wet conditions the strip may be extinguished. Also, magnesium strips do not contain their own oxygen source so ignition cannot occur through a small hole. A significant danger of magnesium ignition is the fact that the metal is an excellent conductor of heat; heating one end of the ribbon may cause the other end to transfer enough heat to the thermite to cause premature ignition. Despite these issues, magnesium ignition remains popular amongst amateur thermite users.

The reaction between potassium permanganate and glycerine is used as an alternative to the magnesium method. When these two substances mix, a spontaneous reaction will begin, slowly increasing the temperature of the mixture until flames are produced. The heat released by the oxidation of glycerine is sufficient to initiate a thermite reaction. However, this method can also be unreliable and the delay between mixing and ignition can vary greatly due to factors such as particle size and ambient temperature.

Another method of igniting is to use a common sparkler to ignite the mix. These reach the necessary temperatures and provide a sufficient amount of time before the burning point reaches the sample.

en.wikipedia.org...

---------------



[edit on 28-6-2006 by reallynobody]

Thanks for that... i didnt know about the other sources.... can i say one more thing about thermite?

It doesnt blow up.

It becomes an uncontrolled reaction and burns... Light some ontop of an old aluminum intaked engine. It will BURN till it hits the ground. Wont blow the engine up.

[edit on 28-6-2006 by donk_316]

Originally posted by donk_316

Originally posted by reallynobody

Originally posted by donk_316
Its like people are trying so hard to prove a conspriacy that they have inadvertantly got enough for two possible answers... all supported by there "coincidences"...


Thermite? Yeah super easy to make.... too bad you need a Magnesium ribbon or something that burns white hot to ignite it or act like a fuse.

Now now, I am not a fan of these conspiracy theories but there are ways to make thermite burn withouth magnesium. Not that I believe it was used, but I like facts to remain straight facts.


-------------

Challenges of igniting thermite
Conventional thermite reactions require very high temperatures for initiation. These cannot be reached with conventional black-powder fuses, nitrocellulose rods, detonators, or other common igniting substances. Even when the thermite is hot enough to glow bright red, it will not ignite as it must be at or near white-hot to initiate the reaction. It is possible to start the reaction using a propane torch if done right, but this should never be attempted for safety reasons.

Often, strips of magnesium metal are used as fuses. Magnesium burns at approximately the temperature at which thermite reacts, around 2500 Kelvin (4000 °F). This method is notoriously unreliable: magnesium itself is hard to ignite, and in windy or wet conditions the strip may be extinguished. Also, magnesium strips do not contain their own oxygen source so ignition cannot occur through a small hole. A significant danger of magnesium ignition is the fact that the metal is an excellent conductor of heat; heating one end of the ribbon may cause the other end to transfer enough heat to the thermite to cause premature ignition. Despite these issues, magnesium ignition remains popular amongst amateur thermite users.

The reaction between potassium permanganate and glycerine is used as an alternative to the magnesium method. When these two substances mix, a spontaneous reaction will begin, slowly increasing the temperature of the mixture until flames are produced. The heat released by the oxidation of glycerine is sufficient to initiate a thermite reaction. However, this method can also be unreliable and the delay between mixing and ignition can vary greatly due to factors such as particle size and ambient temperature.

Another method of igniting is to use a common sparkler to ignite the mix. These reach the necessary temperatures and provide a sufficient amount of time before the burning point reaches the sample.

en.wikipedia.org...

---------------



[edit on 28-6-2006 by reallynobody]

Thanks for that... i didnt know about the other sources.... can i say one more thing about thermite?

It doesnt blow up.

It becomes and uncontrolled reaction and burns... Light some ontop of an old aluminum intaked engine. It will BURN till it hits the ground. Wont blow the engine up.

I know. The conspiracy reasoning is that it was used to cut beams of the towers.
I tried to point out that you can't find it, since it is merely aluminium and iron, and some mixtures apparently with nitrate, but a few remain convinced that people have discovered thermite in the rubble. Any bit of molten steel with aluminium is apparently evidence of thermite use lol. Well I can't prove it wasn't used either.

Still thermite gives off a lot of light, wouldn't it be visible? Or could it be obscured by the smoke?

I am suprised that they havent tagged you with massive quoting of people...

That is the same image of Bin Laden that was in the video that he supposively admitted to 9/11.

The problem there is that moron looks nothing like the real Bin Laden. Now the question remains is this........

Will the Real Bin Laden please stand up.

In that I dont think he ever will because we.. the man is 6ft under.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
I am suprised that they havent tagged you with massive quoting of people...

That is the same image of Bin Laden that was in the video that he supposively admitted to 9/11.

The problem there is that moron looks nothing like the real Bin Laden. Now the question remains is this........

Will the Real Bin Laden please stand up.

In that I dont think he ever will because we.. the man is 6ft under.

He im new. I dont know the etiquette.

Anyway, I can believe they pulled of a binladen impersonation. But why? Bin laden never even denied doing it. He admitted it other clips. so... What was the point exactly. where they afraid bin laden would not admit to it?

Nothing is as it seems.

Heres my point though....
if everyone is screaming "thermite was used!!!"
Then why are they also screaming...
"there was explosions before the towers fell!!"

Originally posted by donk_316
Heres my point though....
if everyone is screaming "thermite was used!!!"
Then why are they also screaming...
"there was explosions before the towers fell!!"

Ah ok. Now I get it.

Originally posted by reallynobody
He im new. I dont know the etiquette.

Anyway, I can believe they pulled of a binladen impersonation. But why?

Well everyone needs a go to guy or boogeyman or whatever you want to call it.

Originally posted by reallynobody
Bin laden never even denied doing it. He admitted it other clips. so...

Is this before or after that 9/11 tape? If it is before that 9/11 tape I would like to see proof of that.

Originally posted by reallynobody
What was the point exactly. where they afraid bin laden would not admit to it?

Bin Laden already said he had nothing to do with 9/11 or remotely to do with it.

In fact a Pakistan reporter interviewed him a little while after and said he would never do something like that, that he has nothing against the American people, but against the policies that our government holds on his people.

Also ever hear of a pretext for war.

What is the reason(s) we are over in Iraq.. I will give a few bush stated with his own mouth.

"WMD's"
"God told me to I seen him in a dream, he told me to rid the world of the evil doers."
And the best one.
"Because Saddam was to blame for 9/11."

[edit on 6/28/2006 by ThichHeaded]

The only thing I've gathered from this thread is that there is evidence to support that it might have been the government. It would defeat the purpose of the forums to say that it is almost pointless trying to figure it out, although, I believe if the government was a part of this whole thing, then I'm sure the beginning of the plans would have been even before Bush was elected. It would take so much foresight to pull off these attacks in broad daylight and make it all seem exactly as it is. It is true I believe the person in the blurry video is NOT Bin Laden *it doesn't take computer software to tell that, even from the picture*. That obviously wouldn't be enough to support the claims, though, considering that could simply been the cherry on top of the proverbial mound of whip cream that is the evidence pointing to these attacks being the result of terrorist groups outside of the USA.

BUT... I would not be surprised if our government did have a hand in all of it. If we can't discern that from clear evidence of the matter at hand, take into consideration the actions of Bush's administration since the attacks. They are certainly more than capable of capturing Osama (or, atleast, they were) and instead they went after Saddam Hussein, who, from what reports have shown so far, did not have anything to do with the attacks. Excuses are excuses, and maybe that is simply all Bush wanted to go after him... but he says himself that he is a war president. Is that not implying that if nothing had happened on September 11, 2001, that we would have ended up in some kinda war anyway? The population probably wouldn't go for that, and Bush needed something to keep him in office an extra four years considering most of the plans on his agenda extended beyond his term. If a democrat was to have taken office during this last term, then obviously there would have been no way things would be going the way they are right now(and I'm not advocating politics for either the elephants or the asses).
It is the actions following the attacks that have led me to believe that the government had any hand in the attacks... not the so-called "evidence" I've seen or heard from this site or any report thus far.
I agree, 9/11 conspiracies ARE nonsense. All the conspiracies that have stemmed from that day have all been nonsense and have led to suffering of our country and many others. There are surely conspiracies involved with this day, there just really is no telling what because they are "conspiracies".
But... I do not find 9/11 conspiracy theories to be nonsense, but rather people seeking answers for something that simply does not add up. Amen to the Truth Crusade!!

Fixed Spelling.

[edit on 28-6-2006 by TarzanBeta]

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Bin Laden already said he had nothing to do with 9/11 or remotely to do with it.

In fact a Pakistan reporter interviewed him a little while after and said he would never do something like that, that he has nothing against the American people, but against the policies that our government holds on his people.

Also ever hear of a pretext for war.

What is the reason(s) we are over in Iraq.. I will give a few bush stated with his own mouth.

"WMD's"
"God told me to I seen him in a dream, he told me to rid the world of the evil doers."
And the best one.
"Because Saddam was to blame for 9/11."

[edit on 6/28/2006 by ThichHeaded]

Do you got a link to that movie where he says he didnt do it? I remember that osama said he would continue doing this sort of thing because of some reason or another, Israel and America are out to get muslims blabla bla.... It doesnt SOUND like he is denying anything. Although he didn't admitted it either in so many words.

Besides, maybe it was not osama, but it still does not have to be a gov agent. Maybe he has doubles like saddam had. Im not convinced of it either, but it is a suggestion nonetheless. Maybe osama was in hiding while a double gave a speech.

I dol think it is possible that there something strange going on, i mean other then the massive onslaught, and I rather have people that are a little too paranoid then not enough. But too much aint healthy either.

I dont think there is any proof of a conspiracy, but if you want to believe there was a conspiracy, it still makes more sense to believe in the government letting terrorists slide through because they wanted to have an attack, than to think that the entire attack was somehow staged.

But if someone else has a different opinion that's ok.

[edit on 28-6-2006 by reallynobody]

Originally posted by zappafan1
Originally posted by Mog_of_Eligius

I have not posted here ever since the Pentagon """MISTAKENLY""" called my unlisted cell phone number two days after I submitted a story to atsnn about them misreporting desertion rates.

REPLY: I believe I would have snapped a picture of the incoming call number logged on your phone; You know... proof.

PROOF? Why? For YOU???

In Fact, I recorded the message, and called them back, and talked to the female sergant who called me. BUT WHY ON EARTH DO I HAVE TO PROVE IT TO YOU? I could give two #s if you believe me.

Originally posted by reallynobody

Originally posted by zappafan1
Originally posted by Mog_of_Eligius

I have not posted here ever since the Pentagon """MISTAKENLY""" called my unlisted cell phone number two days after I submitted a story to atsnn about them misreporting desertion rates.

REPLY: I believe I would have snapped a picture of the incoming call number logged on your phone; You know... proof.

Did the guy in the other side identify themselves with "the pentagon"?

Actually smart ass yes they did. And it was not a guy, it was a female.

Originally posted by Mog_of_Eligius

Originally posted by reallynobody

Originally posted by zappafan1
Originally posted by Mog_of_Eligius

I have not posted here ever since the Pentagon """MISTAKENLY""" called my unlisted cell phone number two days after I submitted a story to atsnn about them misreporting desertion rates.

REPLY: I believe I would have snapped a picture of the incoming call number logged on your phone; You know... proof.

Did the guy in the other side identify themselves with "the pentagon"?

Actually smart ass yes they did. And it was not a guy, it was a female.

Well they are running out of numbers so maybe they called you by mistake. Or maybe you think the pentagon has your cellphone on their speeddialer?

I would rather not believe there is a conspiracy of any kind. I don't really know what to believe. I believe that there is a reason for everything.

Eligius, what exactly was the purpose of them calling you? And... if you were any real threat to them, wouldn't they have shown up? Maybe their call was just a minor scare tactic. I don't know what the conversation entailed, but I can't imagine a phone call causing me to end my posting habits.

Well they are running out of numbers so maybe they called you by mistake. Or maybe you think the pentagon has your cellphone on their speeddialer?

What a completely stupid and ignorant and asswards remark.

Just like the rest of your arguments.

Have fun on ats mole hunter.