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Aviary's "Falcon" identified?

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posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Example post here, contradicting shill notion from the
true believers from the debunker's camp:

groups.yahoo.com...

Re: Doty as Falcon. I was acquainted with Bill Moore a long time
ago. He always clearly stated Doty was not Falcon. That Falcon
was a higher up. Doty a go-between. Everyone knows Doty was
presented as Falcon on that old TV show. No news there. Linda
Howe? What does she know. SHe wasn't a part of Moore's and
Shandera's effort.




posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 03:36 PM
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i thought that Dale GRaff of the DIA had been suggested by Doty and Collins in their book to be Falcon.

Doty was always the "surrogate" Falcon when the other could not be there, ALLEDGEDLY. I believe the real Falcon was supposedly in the audience of "ufo cover-up live!".



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by MikeJamieson
Example post here, contradicting shill notion from the
true believers from the debunker's camp:

groups.yahoo.com...


Rick Doty poo-poo'd the Serpo story, too, when he commented on it back in December. All that your post shows me is that your profile indicates that you were born in the same year as Rick Doty (1950). Sorry, totally unpersuasive.


Re: Doty as Falcon. I was acquainted with Bill Moore a long time
ago. He always clearly stated Doty was not Falcon. That Falcon
was a higher up. Doty a go-between.


Ah! Another "insider", so it seems. Moore got all his information from Doty. Of course Doty told him that the information came from "higher up", just as he did with the Serpo. What was Doty going to tell Moore? That he made the stuff up himself? ROFL.


Everyone knows Doty was presented as Falcon on that old TV show. No news there.


Yes, some of those folks actually had to interact with him, sign contracts, etc. Hence the persuasive nature of THEIR statements that Doty = Falcon.


Linda Howe? What does she know. SHe wasn't a part of Moore's and
Shandera's effort.


She knows that when she met Doty at Kirkland AFB and in other settings he identified himself as "Falcon", not "mini-Falcon". What does it matter that she wasn't part of Jaime Shandera's effort? Shandera was bamboozled by Doty when Doty and Moore sent him the MJ-12 docs on film (which is what most people think is true, including myself, based on the weight of the circumstantial evidence AND the statements that your own source -- Dan "chicken little" Smith -- makes on his blog regarding Rick having been the originator of the MJ-12 docs).

So... you still think that this blog is proof positive that Doty wasn't Falcon? I know the idea is attractive, from all accounts, Rick Doty isn't smart enough to take a leak on a tree without wetting his pants, so most people who know him or have encountered him are wont to believe that he's being fed information from "higher up". But isn't it just as likely that he's in cahoots with someone else to make up the nonsense he's been feeding the UFO community for years? Perhaps that someone isn't all that "high up" but just another ex-military/CIA/DIA buddy of his that likes to tell tall tales and play with people's brains.

Who could that be?

Former government intelligence officer.
Likes to play with people's minds.

I'll think about that for a while. Maybe a little "Blue Jay" will land on my shoulder and whisper the answer into my ear while I'm reviewing all this Serpo stuff and look for conspicuous names that fit the description.

Oh darn.. I left the door open and the cat got out...

here Kitty, Kitty... here Kitty, Kitty....



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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This link provides feedback from various involved persons
on the identification of the alleged Falcon:

groups.yahoo.com...

(I'm not sure people followed my prompting in the first post
to read the other relevant posts at that group. Note that Dan
Smith's report is debunked from several corners.)



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Monsieur Thibault

Originally posted by MikeJamieson
Example post here, contradicting shill notion from the
true believers from the debunker's camp:

groups.yahoo.com...


Rick Doty poo-poo'd the Serpo story, too, when he commented on it back in December. All that your post shows me is that your profile indicates that you were born in the same year as Rick Doty (1950). Sorry, totally unpersuasive.


Re: Doty as Falcon. I was acquainted with Bill Moore a long time
ago. He always clearly stated Doty was not Falcon. That Falcon
was a higher up. Doty a go-between.


Ah! Another "insider", so it seems. Moore got all his information from Doty. Of course Doty told him that the information came from "higher up", just as he did with the Serpo. What was Doty going to tell Moore? That he made the stuff up himself? ROFL.


Everyone knows Doty was presented as Falcon on that old TV show. No news there.


Yes, some of those folks actually had to interact with him, sign contracts, etc. Hence the persuasive nature of THEIR statements that Doty = Falcon.


Linda Howe? What does she know. SHe wasn't a part of Moore's and
Shandera's effort.


She knows that when she met Doty at Kirkland AFB and in other settings he identified himself as "Falcon", not "mini-Falcon". What does it matter that she wasn't part of Jaime Shandera's effort? Shandera was bamboozled by Doty when Doty and Moore sent him the MJ-12 docs on film (which is what most people think is true, including myself, based on the weight of the circumstantial evidence AND the statements that your own source -- Dan "chicken little" Smith -- makes on his blog regarding Rick having been the originator of the MJ-12 docs).

So... you still think that this blog is proof positive that Doty wasn't Falcon? I know the idea is attractive, from all accounts, Rick Doty isn't smart enough to take a leak on a tree without wetting his pants, so most people who know him or have encountered him are wont to believe that he's being fed information from "higher up". But isn't it just as likely that he's in cahoots with someone else to make up the nonsense he's been feeding the UFO community for years? Perhaps that someone isn't all that "high up" but just another ex-military/CIA/DIA buddy of his that likes to tell tall tales and play with people's brains.

Who could that be?

Former government intelligence officer.
Likes to play with people's minds.

I'll think about that for a while. Maybe a little "Blue Jay" will land on my shoulder and whisper the answer into my ear while I'm reviewing all this Serpo stuff and look for conspicuous names that fit the description.

Oh darn.. I left the door open and the cat got out...

here Kitty, Kitty... here Kitty, Kitty....



Me an insider? Are you guys really that suspicious oriented?

Readers of this thread: please note that a question mark ends the title in
the subject box.

Again, for the millionth time, I have no answers and don't presume to
provide any. I do remember Moore saying that Doty wasn't Falcon.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by MikeJamieson
Again, for the millionth time, I have no answers and don't presume to
provide any. I do remember Moore saying that Doty wasn't Falcon.


Fair enough. But the contradicting statements made by people closely involved over the years makes this latest "headline" less than newsworthy.

If you're genuinely a reseacher, then perhaps you might help us unravel why this was presented as "big news" on Victor's list and Dan Smith't blog at the present time?

Perhaps Rick Doty (or one of his cohorts) is trying to deflect attention from something else?



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Monsieur Thibault

So... you still think that this blog is proof positive that Doty wasn't Falcon? I know the idea is attractive, from all accounts, Rick Doty isn't smart enough to take a leak on a tree without wetting his pants, so most people who know him or have encountered him are wont to believe that he's being fed information from "higher up". But isn't it just as likely that he's in cahoots with someone else to make up the nonsense he's been feeding the UFO community for years? Perhaps that someone isn't all that "high up" but just another ex-military/CIA/DIA buddy of his that likes to tell tall tales and play with people's brains.

Who could that be?

Former government intelligence officer.
Likes to play with people's minds.

I'll think about that for a while. Maybe a little "Blue Jay" will land on my shoulder and whisper the answer into my ear while I'm reviewing all this Serpo stuff and look for conspicuous names that fit the description.

Oh darn.. I left the door open and the cat got out...

here Kitty, Kitty... here Kitty, Kitty....



ROFLMAO


Why is it your writing style seems so familiar??? Do we "know" each other somehow???

I do believe you've got the Kitty by the tail! Pretty sure Doty's cohort in all of his BS can be identified by a color - specifically - green!

Always,
Shawnna

PS - THANKS for correcting the spelling of my name!



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by MikeJamieson
Forgot to make one point, Springer. Jack Sarfatti is no hoaxer.
He's like the rest of us, I suspect: scratching his head over the
various things going on. (In case you were including Jack as
part of that group.....I really don't know enough about the rest
of that gang to form an opinion. Perhaps I should remote view them?)


Don't throw me in with the group that is "scratching their heads"...
I am certainly NOT scratching my head over ANY of this B.S....

It's PURE BULLOCKS all of it. A bunch of nobodies who dream of being somebodies start a B.S. story about UFOs/Aliens and "govt. insiders" that don't exist to back their fairy tails up.

This particular group of charlatans have inserted themselves into virtually every UFO incident ever reported. Hell, slurpo was written by our Members by proxy! Every time we blew holes in the story the next "disclosure" contained what our Members had written!


Scratch away mate, this is a load...


Springer...



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by Springer

Originally posted by MikeJamieson
Forgot to make one point, Springer. Jack Sarfatti is no hoaxer.
He's like the rest of us, I suspect: scratching his head over the
various things going on. (In case you were including Jack as
part of that group.....I really don't know enough about the rest
of that gang to form an opinion. Perhaps I should remote view them?)


Don't throw me in with the group that is "scratching their heads"...
I am certainly NOT scratching my head over ANY of this B.S....

It's PURE BULLOCKS all of it. A bunch of nobodies who dream of being somebodies start a B.S. story about UFOs/Aliens and "govt. insiders" that don't exist to back their fairy tails up.

This particular group of charlatans have inserted themselves into virtually every UFO incident ever reported. Hell, slurpo was written by our Members by proxy! Every time we blew holes in the story the next "disclosure" contained what our Members had written!


Scratch away mate, this is a load...


Springer...


Yes, I understand, Springer. Your comments pretty much mirror what
I said to Bruce Macacabbee at ufoupdates when he introduced Exempt From
Disclosure. A nifty little search can find that post. (I reference the untrustworthiness of Doty.)

Is this issue important? Well, from the pov I assert (a civil libertarian's
view of AFOSI activities) is the following thread seems important to me
anyway:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by mj 09
i thought that Dale GRaff of the DIA had been suggested by Doty and Collins in their book to be Falcon.

Doty was always the "surrogate" Falcon when the other could not be there, ALLEDGEDLY. I believe the real Falcon was supposedly in the audience of "ufo cover-up live!".


Was Dale Graff involved with the remote viewing program?



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by MikeJamieson


Skadi, this story is very confusing. Hope it all becomes transparently clear
soon. Then we can use it as a real useful lesson.

Moore seems to be involved in writing about Joseph Smith and the Mormons.


Thanks for your response about Moore's whereabouts. It has been my own personal mystery that has plagued me for a bit, lol, as Moore seemed to vanish after that infamous MUFON conference in Vegas in 1989.

While I'll agree it is someonwhat confusing, it has been that way since Doty showed up on the scene and began to flood the UFO community with lies, disinformation, and a good dose of mindf***ing. Anything from Doty regarding UFOs and ETs must always be treated with a healthy dose of caution and cynicsim. After all, this is the man who basically ran the whole scam against poor Paul Bennewitz, who was already an unstable person to begin with.Everything Doty has produced has been either proven blatantly false, misleading, or confusing. The only exception here that I suspect might have more than a kernel of truth is the MJ-12 documents, which was mostly discovered by Moore anyway.

I still believe for the most part that Doty is Falcon. However, Moore, Shandera and Doty denied this way back in the day. Yet Doty told Howe he was Falcon. And the CNN studio crew basically said that Doty was Falcon. So, was dont THE Falcon? Or a mini Falcon? Well, it could be either way in this case. However, Its unlikely that the truth will ever be known because of the massive amount of BS and misdirection that this paticular chapter in UFO history has produced.

But given Doty's track record, if I were on a jury in a court of law, given the evidence and character of said culprit, I would give the verdict that Doty is indeed Falcon.

For me to think otherwise there needs to be some REALLY damn good evidence thats source is NOT Moore, Doty, or Shandera, and furthermore, whose source can be verified as being credible.

Until then, Doty is guilty as charged.



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by MikeJamieson

Originally posted by mj 09
i thought that Dale GRaff of the DIA had been suggested by Doty and Collins in their book to be Falcon.

Doty was always the "surrogate" Falcon when the other could not be there, ALLEDGEDLY. I believe the real Falcon was supposedly in the audience of "ufo cover-up live!".


Was Dale Graff involved with the remote viewing program?




Are you for real? A simple google search answers your question. Why are you doing this?



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 07:47 PM
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Yes, you're right Shawnna. I have but one minute left today online (library)



posted on Jun, 29 2006 @ 08:03 PM
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A good person to ask about this on the board is John Lear. Although we may not agree with alot of what he has to say or believe any of it, he did have some contact and relationships with several of the people involved. He could provide insight, if nothing else, to check what he has been told against what the current claims are, and the claims back then.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Shawnna

Why is it your writing style seems so familiar??? Do we "know" each other somehow???


I'm sure we have. I just joined ATS when I saw this silly attempt to changing the focus from Rick Doty's crime's against UFOlogy to another, lame attempt of his to drag another person's good name into his web of lies and deceit.


I do believe you've got the Kitty by the tail! Pretty sure Doty's cohort in all of his BS can be identified by a color - specifically - green!


Yeah... Why IS Kit Green lurking behind the scenes of all this? From what I read on your site, the "team of 5" was:

Christopher "Kit" Green -- Blue Jay
Rick Doty -- Falcon
Hal Puthoff -- Owl
Victor Martinez -- Jailbird *
Bill Ryan -- Turkey *

In supporting roles in Serpo, I've found:

Bill "I can't tell the truth" Collins -- Condor
Dan Smith -- Chicken Little
Ron Pandolfi -- Pelican

So... Does anyone else want to guess whether or not ex-CIA "spook desk" guy "Kit" Green has been posting on the boards under an assumed name, as he runs the Serpo show from "behind the scenes"?

Perhaps Doty IS getting the balogna he's spreading from another source, but is trying to hide that source by blaming public figures that are not likely to comment on the allegations and dismiss them as the ramblings of another delusions former government employee looking to make a buck by selling a cheesy book.


PS - THANKS for correcting the spelling of my name!


I've read your site and made a note to mysefl -- don't piss-off ShawnNa

* -- I just coined these nicknames for the newest inductees into the Aviary. Be sure to stay tuned for the Aviary Awards Dinner 2006, where they'll be given their Official Aviary T-Shirts and Decoder Rings

[edit on 30-6-2006 by Monsieur Thibault]



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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In case readers of this thread buy into Monsieur's and Shawnna's
suspicions, regarding my intent in starting this thread, please
take a look at this post:

www.virtuallystrange.net...

This post here gives a flavor of my general orientation re: the
whistleblower scene in general:

www.virtuallystrange.net...

Am I sharing some stuff, to initiate an inquiry, or am I a shill? The
reader can be the judge of that.

Again, I recommend people read Stuart Miller's interview with Greg
Bishop (which I linked in a previous post). The very last line of that
interview probably should suffice in debunking effectively Dan Smith's
"revelation": Bill Moore would not identify Falcon, "even though he
was dead".



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:23 AM
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Skadi, here's the last item on Moore (pretty recent) from
Jim Moseley's Saucer Smear:

www.martiansgohome.com...

There's a fair amount more there. I remember reading somewhere
that he spends his time repairing computers and motorcycles.
Also, he has written a book on Joseph Smith and the founding
of Mormonism. (Focused on document validity, I think.) Hope
that gives you some idea and leads as to what he's up to.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:34 AM
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I can say for a fact that Shandera is quite well aware of serpo.

Do you wonder why moore and moore people keep brining his name up ?



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:53 AM
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Hi robertfenix. Monsieur directed us to a Serpo forum and
a poster named "Greatwaller" as possibly being Shandera.
(That you had pointed this out, I guess.) I did a search
there and started reading some of Greatwaller's post.

lucianarchy.proboards21.com...

I can't get drawn in seriously to the story, seeing how it's
based on anonymous sources writing to a host of an email
list. But, since I love many shows on the sci-fi channel,
I suppose I could find some fun reading there????



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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Jaimeson is the editor of the daily planet ? for all you marvel buffs....

Why does mikejaimeson act as if he knows nothing about serpo, yet my spidey sense says there is far more then meets the eye to this Jaime-son.



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