Well, my anger is about the hypocrisy of victimhood and how it is used around here. As well as the assumption of victimhood and who has it.

Victimhood is something that is a premium around here. And for some people to attack others, victimhood can go a long way--especially when conveniently forgetting about it when accusing others of it.

And that's exactly what happening when Cynthia McKinney is being used as a scapegoat.

Black victimhood is a sin. White victimhood is tantamount, cherished, empathized over.

And sadly, it is about victimhood and being able to acknowledge it despite the fact that one does not want to be a victim. Everyone plays the victim card. But not everyone will get empathy for it.

They certainly don't give any to Cynthia McKinney and never will.

But poor Tony Snow. He didn't mean it. To me, he used the race card too, and used it in such a slick manner that people can feel sorry for him and proclaim his victimhood too.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Well, my anger is about the hypocrisy of victimhood and how it is used around here. As well as the assumption of victimhood and who has it.

If you are angry specifically with me, I can address it. If you're angry with 'some people' I can't help.

You'll have to be more specific.

And that's exactly what happening when Cynthia McKinney is being used as a scapegoat.

Not by me. I'm not using her as a scapegoat. I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

Black victimhood is a sin. White victimhood is tantamount, cherished, empathized over.

Again, no clue what you mean by "black victimhood and white victimhood".




[edit on 5-7-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

I will address these things later. I have to go to do some "real world" things now.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
They certainly don't give any to Cynthia McKinney and never will.

The word "Cracker Crat" is obviously used as a racial slur.

But poor Tony Snow. He didn't mean it. To me, he used the race card too, and used it in such a slick manner that people can feel sorry for him and proclaim his victimhood too.

The word Tar Baby was NOT used as a racial slur. Nobody has called him a victim but you.

What don't you understand about this?

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by ceci2006
people would blame Ms. McKinney because she is convenient to do so.

no (again).

People blame McKinney because she is RESPONSIBLE for her own website.
It presents HER to the public. She is RESPONSIBLE for the contents.

Her website ... her responsibility... her bigotry in allowing racial slurs.

It's very simple. No psudo-psychobabble needed.
Her site. Her responsibility. Her guilt.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Tony Snow....he used the race card too, and used it in such a slick manner
that people can feel sorry for him and proclaim his victimhood too.

Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Guess what Ceci .. most of the country is educated enough to understand the
MULTIPLE MEANINGS of the phrase 'tar baby' and they are educated enough to
understand exactly what Tony Snow ment when he used it and that he used it
in a non-racial manner. It's rather sad all these weeks have gone by and
you still don't get it.

Bottom line - Snow is NOT racist for using a benign phrase in a cerebral conversation.

BTW - NOBODY 'feels sorry for' or 'proclaims the victimhood' of Tony Snow.
That comment makes no sense whatsoever. Like him or not; he's an intelligent
man who is doing his job well. He NEVER has said or done anything even
remotely racist and he isn't stupid enough (or motivated enough) to start now.

'Race Card' ... 'Victimhood' ... all off topic psudo-psychobabble.

McKinney is responsible for her website. When the anti-white comments
came up she could have countered with anti-bigotry remarks. Instead
she does nothing and in essence approves of the comments.
Her web site. Her responsibility. Her bigotry exposed.
There is no excuse and there isn't anything else to reasonably say about it.

Way to go McKinney.
Strike yet another blow for civil rights.
(in case you couldn't tell, I'm being sarcastic)

And Ceci, "playing the race card" is when a person claims "they're just doing that to me because of my race" As Cynthia McKinney claimed after her incident. Tony Snow hasn't made any claims that I'm aware of that people are attacking him because he's white. That would be playing the race card.

[edit on 5-7-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Regarding Greg Palast and the "White Shame" that we are supposed to assume...

I never met the guy. I have no idea whether he is black, white, or green.

So there goes the "White Shame" argument into the crapper, where it belongs.

Shame. It works with old ladies wearing babushkas, as they cluck their tongues and wag their fingers.

To the author:

Well, that means you haven't read the posts of other people and myself that said that Palast was repeatedly white--since the first page.

But the shame is still there, nevertheless. But then again, you didn't say anything about "White victimhood". Ah, now we get to the bottom of it. Or else, you wouldn't go after Black politicians rabidly almost in every thread. How does victimhood feel? Done playing the race card? So there you go right into the crapper with it.

One man's victim is another's racist.

By the way, which are you? A racist or a victim?



[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
And Ceci, "playing the race card" is when a person claims "they're just doing that to me because of my race" As Cynthia McKinney claimed after her incident. Tony Snow hasn't made any claims that I'm aware of that people are attacking him because he's white. That would be playing the race card.

And the people who support him are also playing the "race card" as well by apologising for his behavior and ignoring the fact that a whole lot of proof exists out there about the other meaning of "tar baby". Tony Snow could have meant anything by his use of "tar baby". But because people give him the benefit of the doubt, he didn't mean anything about it. What if he didn't mean what he said by "tar baby"? What if he knew about its offensiveness and still used it? Because of that "shame", no one would attack him either.

Did anyone ever think that Ms. McKinney might have brought up the fact that she was singled out by the police because she was? Five Times? And since she comes into that building everyday, that Paul McKenna would not recognize her? That would mean that Paul McKenna would be either dumb, blind or both. I pity the professionalism of the Capitol Police if he is. He's already proven himself to be a coward for whining about a "tap" with a cell phone. To make it sound more macho, he had to put it in his police report as a "strike".

I'm sure if you were repeatedly harrassed by Black police and claimed because of one more incident that you were a victim of "racial profiling", you'd be playing the victim. You'd call that "Anti-White" racism. And thus, that would be--in another's eyes--playing the race card.

And of course, about Greg Palast. Still no one except yourself and subz speaks about the offensiveness of Mr. Palast's words. But hardly a murmur from the others. That proves to me that McKinney is being used as a straw man. And there is plenty of shame going around about not getting mad at another White person because he said the racial slurs. Psychobabble? I think not.

Instead, the anger turns toward Ms. McKinney. "White victimhood" at its highest. Right along with the hypocrisy of blaming her of using the race card when so many others against her have done the same.

It's all about identity politics here. And people have enough it on this thread to spread around.

And Ms. McKinney posted the article because she felt it was an article of support. Did anyone think of that as well?

About Tony Snow: That's a good question. And I will find out about what he says about the use of "tar baby" and his "excuses" beyond "American Lore". There is proof of accusations against Mr. Snow as being racist. And that goes far beyond defending his friend Rush Limbaugh about his comments regarding Donovan McNabb.

It's about time to see who is the bigger racist here again.

And yes, I will explain the difference for you about "white" and "black" victimhood.











[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
And the people who support him are also playing the "race card" as well by apologising for his behavior

I haven't seen any apologies for his behavior. Only explanations. And YOU choose not to believe the explanation. Tell me, Ceci, do you believe me when I say I had never heard the term before? Or do you think I'm lying, too?

a whole lot of proof exists out there about the other meaning of "tar baby".

Yes. Proof exists. You insist he knew about it even though there is no indication that he did. Your firm attachment to your position in the face of ZERO evidence is astounding. You have NO indication that he knew about the racial slur, yet you just know he did. And what if he did? What if he knew about it but thought it was safe because he wasn't using it 'that way'?

Is he still a racist? For what? And if he is, then all black people who use the N-word are racist too because they for sure know what that means...

Did anyone ever think that Ms. McKinney might have brought up the fact that she was singled out by the police because she was? Five Times?

Sure. I think it's possible she was singled out because of who she is. But once again, it's the hypocrisy that bothers people. (me)

And of course, about Greg Palast. Still no one except yourself and subz speaks about the offensiveness of Mr. Palast's words.

So what? Who owes you this? Why are you, Ceci, entitled to hear from everyone that Palast is a racist? If you know that yourself, why are you insisting everyone pour their hearts and opinions out to you? Who do you think you are? I don't understand why you think people must 'come clean' with their feelings about Palast simply because you require them to.

And Ms. McKinney posted the article because she felt it was an article of support. Did anyone think of that as well?

Yes, I did. She could have edited it or asked him to change it. That's what I would have done.

There is proof of accusations against Mr. Snow as being racist.

Care to provide?

It's about time to see who is the bigger racist here again.

WHY??? You're the only one who cares about that. It doesn't matter to me who's the bigger racist. That's the most childish thing I've ever heard. What would that prove? Why is this a McKinney VS Snow bout in your mind?

Would it somehow absolve McKinney if someone else is a bigger racist than she is? What's the point?

I never said Greg Palast was racist. I just asked if the said words were so offensive, why didn't anyone attack him instead Ms. McKinney. Because she is the easier target?

But because your of low bar, you might. You did say that uttering derogatory words counted, didn't you?

And Cynthia McKinney possibly didn't think that the words had any derogatory meaning at all and kept it as it was. Is that any different than Tony Snow's use of the word "tar baby"?

And I will find the information about Tony Snow. I did say I would, didn't I?

And who cares? Obviously everyone. Because people keep on defending Tony Snow to the nth degree while placing Cynthia McKinney in that category of the most virulent racism.




[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Yes, I did. Are you going to address ANY of the other questions I asked? Or just rub the low bar thing in every chance you get?

I'm proud to have a low bar, by the way, Ceci. I'm proud that I have a low tolerance for racism. So if you think you're hurting me by bringing that up time and time again, you are mistaken.

Why are you personalizing it? I'm not. In fact I'm glad that you have your low bar. People do need to be sensitive to these things. I'm just mentioning the facts by how you view racism since that's the way you see the entire issue.

If you really want me to personalize it, then I will say this:

To you, no one else is allowed to have their views heard about racism. You've made up your mind and told them so. There's nothing wrong about that. But in light of it, no one else can have their views discussed and acknowledged. You play the judge and jury once again instead of actually giving these things some thought and hashing them out.

And yes, I will answer your questions, if you simply give me the chance.



[edit on 5-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006
Why are you personalizing it?

Ceci, you have said "low bar" like it was an insult of some kind about 5 times. I didn't make that personal, You did.

And I feel it's best to deal directly with issues instead of generalizing and saying "some people" and so on. Making accusations toward "some people" just makes it so you don't have to directly confront something. You can just throw accusations out there at everyone but don't have to deal with anyone in particular.

I'm about the only one left that's willing to discuss this with you. If you want to deal with me and my ideas fine, if not, then don't respond to me.

To you, no one else is allowed to have their views heard about racism.

Pardon me? How exactly am I keeping people from having their views and having them heard? Show me how I have this power. I'm really curious about this. Quote something I did that keeps people from having their views heard.

And by "no one else" I assume you mean you. You're a victim of my opinion? I don't get it.

But in light of it, no one else can have their views discussed and acknowledged.

Again, how do I prevent this discussion of views? I do have my views and state them clearly, but that doesn't prevent others from having theirs.

You play the judge and jury once again instead of actually giving these things some thought and hashing them out.

WTF? What have I been doing for the last 4 pages??? What did I do for 22 pages on your racism thread if not giving things thought and hashing them out? Where do you get this stuff?


[edit on 5-7-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by ceci2006
To you, no one else is allowed to have their views heard about racism. You've made up your mind and told them so. There's nothing wrong about that. But in light of it, no one else can have their views discussed and acknowledged. You play the judge and jury once again instead of actually giving these things some thought and hashing them out.

You owe BH an apology for that remark. She is one of the most reasonable, patient members of ATS. She has gone out of her way to try to discuss things in a reasonable manner with you, and this is how you acknowledge it?

BH, it's none of my business, but if I were you, I'd walk away from this. You have way too much to offer in the way of enjoyable discourse to waste your time like this.