Cynthia McKinney website allows Racial Slurs

Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
affirmative action

A phoney civil rights program put together by white men to insure continued racial friction.

"They did it, too"! is not a very good defense, in my opinion.

My intent was not to defend mckinney.

However, this thread is about McKinney and pointing out that others are also racist does NOT absolve her from being racist by any means.

Agreed it absolves her of nothing, she is undoubtly prejudice as I previously stated. However I think it is mistaken to believe that this thread is about mckinney, it clearly is not. Nobody cares whether or not mckinney, lott, byrd and bush are racists, the debate would be about racism if this were the case.

This thread is about a partisan smear campaign on a democratic representative to congress that is up for election in november, an election in which the balance of power could hang on one congressional seat. Mckinney is being painted as an out of control black racist in order to strike fear into the white voters in her congressional district for the purpose of swinging the election to her republican opponent.
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[edit on 4-7-2006 by df1]

Originally posted by df1
the debate would be about racism if this were the case.

I don't know where you've been. We've been talking about racism for 6 pages now. And it is most certainly about McKinney. Check the title and the subject of 90% of the posts.

Originally posted by df1
This thread is about a partisan smear campaign on a democratic representative to congress that is up for election in november,

Maybe to you it is. But in 6 pages, that's the first I've seen mention of a republican smear campaign. I know you have tried to turn it into some sort of 'redneck' agenda or something political, but not many are taking that bait.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We've been talking about racism for 6 pages now.

Make up your mind. First you tell me this thread is about mckinney and you chastised me for bringing up the racism of lott, byrd and others. But now you tell me that it is about racism.

But in 6 pages, that's the first I've seen mention of a republican smear campaign.

This thread has continued for 6 pages for only one reason, mckinney's congressional seat is up for grabs in a pivotal election. Without the election, this story would have faded to obscurity long ago. When you first saw mention of this is unimportant.

1) Mckinney is up for reelection.
2) The republicans are afraid of losing majority control of the house.
3) Mckinney has made repeated large political blunders.
4) The republicans are hammering her on those blunders, including those on ATS.

Exactly which of these points do you deny?

The fact that this thread continues is the story, not mckinney.
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Originally posted by df1
Make up your mind. First you tell me this thread is about mckinney and you chastised me for bringing up the racism of lott, byrd and others. But now you tell me that it is about racism.

My mind is completely made up and I didn't chastise you. I don't even know what you're talking about. Read the title of this thread... "Cynthia McKinney website allows Racial Slurs" It's about Cynthia McKinney and racism.

I don't deny any of your points. But they haven't been the focus of this thread as far as I am aware. If you would like to talk about the angle of the 2006 elections, please feel free. I just haven't seen it until you brought it up just now. I hardly think you can say this thread is about something that hasn't been previously mentioned...

And I hardly see the point in debating what the thread is about.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I may get "punished" for off topic here, but

Harte, that was uncalled for and NOT funny.

Ceci and I disagree almost on every topic, but she is one of the most informed and intelligent posters on here. She is also very well informed and compassionate in her discussions on certain topics and deserves more respect than that.

Semper

Semper,

I must say that I was quite surprised at this response from you. Pardon my attempt to inject a little (very little, apparently) levity into the discussion. I do not see how it is that someone, anyone, could "deserve more respect" than a little good-natured ribbing every now and then. This, of course, is assuming that you know the definition and proper usage of the word "niggardly," and the complete dissassociation of the word with any possibility of any racial overtones at all.

You might deign to recognize the compliment I was paying to Ceci in my post, rather than hasten to feed your perverse need to establish your own purity in regards to your personal lack of racism. That, at least, is how I read your response.

I tried to convey that Ceci should at least be recognized by everyone for her staunch, unwavering and even dogged (I hope no Canine-Americans are offended by my use of that term!) defense of Congresswoman McKinney in the face of many opposing viewpoints and posts. Is this not at least in some way similar to your "She is ... compassionate in her discussions on certain topics..."

Anyway, you (and everyone else) obviously have individual opinions concerning what exactly is funny. I thought my post met the required conditions. This was in part due to the way the usage of "niggardly" harkened back to the Tony Snow misstep, as well as the stupidity of an aide to the D.C. Mayor actually losing his job through the unquestionably proper use of the term back in 1999. With this in mind, and also creating an opportunity for me to compliment Ceci in such a way as to poke fun at the same time, I thought it was not only funny, it was downright ingenious! Superb, even!

You hold a different opinion. Fine. Whatever.

That is, unless you're referring to my statements about the hypocrisy in government?

Surely you can't mean what I said about Uncle Remus?

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
I thought it was not only funny, it was downright ingenious! Superb, even!

Harte

Doncha just hate it when you make a funny and nobody appreciates it?

I thought it was very witty, btw.

Nice recovery, or misunderstanding.

I have no need to establish any purity at all. As I am in no way pure.

If I misunderstood you, then I apologize, if not, then my comments stand.

I find very little humorous in discussing racism in any form or forum. My life is surrounded by many perpetrators of the differing forms of Racism and I have seen it's tragic results far too many times.

Semper

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And I hardly see the point in debating what the thread is about.

Im not debating, I am making observations. This thread is getting vastly more attention than it deserves even in a slow news cycle. My contention is that this thread is being repeatedly bumped by republican partisans in order to keep the very damning title, Cynthia McKinney website allows Racial Slurs, on the front page of ATSNN. This became more and more apparent to me as the thread evolved. And same thing is being done on other forums and in other media.

Generally Im not one to make predictions, but I will go out on a limb concerning the republican attacks on mckinney. As the november elections come closer, mckinney will be used as a proxy black demon in other congressional districts where a putting a little fear into the white folks has a the potential of swinging the election to the republican candidate.

Calling attention to this transparent manipulation and deception is my point. And as you stated earlier, no one has expressed this point of view before. So in the spirit of denying ignorance and communal sharing of opinions I have provided the preceding analysis. Its up to each individual to decide whether or not to believe my contentions, but surely no one can claim that Im offtopic.

Originally posted by semperfortis
I find very little humorous in discussing racism in any form or forum. My life is surrounded by many perpetrators of the differing forms of Racism and I have seen it's tragic results far too many times.
Semper

Semper,

Any thinking person would have to agree with your statement about the tragic results of racism. To my mind, however, the human condition is itself teeming with tragedy. In fact, there is nothing else in it but tragedy, beyond the things we ourselves thrust into the mix.

My outlook is such that if we are unwilling to laugh at our own stupid selves, then it is time to start sucking on the old tailpipe. To me, there is no other way to get through.

Sorry if I can't, don't or won't take things as seriously as you, or Ceci.

Harte

Originally posted by df1
My contention is that this thread is being repeatedly bumped by republican partisans in order to keep the very damning title, Cynthia McKinney website allows Racial Slurs, on the front page of ATSNN.

I'm pretty sure Ceci's not a republican and I'm certainly not a republican, but I can't speak for the others. But that's an interesting contention... And you've posted several times in here. Are you a republican?

Now, Semper, I know he's a republican (and proud of it!) But I sincerely doubt he has ulterior motives for posting in this thread. I really doubt anyone does, but if that's what you think is going on, then carry on. If it is about politics, I was totally unaware of it and I think that would be a sad statement.

Harte, I also thought your comment was witty. Sharp, shocking and brave, but very witty. I didn't at all think you were trying to be mean. I hope no one was offended. It was a 'spit-your-coffee-on-the-monitor' moment. And I agree, we have to laugh at these things or give up.

Originally posted by df1
My contention is that this thread is being repeatedly bumped by republican partisans in order to keep the very damning title, Cynthia McKinney website allows Racial Slurs, on the front page of ATSNN. This became more and more apparent to me as the thread evolved. And same thing is being done on other forums and in other media.

This thread is being responded to at least as much by McKinney's supporters as anyone else, so your contention is inaccurate.

Generally Im not one to make predictions, but I will go out on a limb concerning the republican attacks on mckinney. As the november elections come closer, mckinney will be used as a proxy black demon in other congressional districts where a putting a little fear into the white folks has a the potential of swinging the election to the republican candidate.

You give her way too much credit. She's not that important to the American public, or Washington politics. Her biggest claim to fame recently has been that she assaulted a Capitol police officer and got away with it.

As far as "swinging the election", I doubt very much that her constituency knows about ATS. And anybody that will vote in her district has made their mind up one way or the other, anyway.

And please, don't make it sound like manipulation is the sole domain of the Republicans. You can't really mean that, can you? Remember Tom Delay?

Calling attention to this transparent manipulation and deception is my point.

There is no deception, because what is written is true. As far as the claim that it was Palast's words, not hers, well that just doesn't wash. When the Abu Ghraib story broke, the hue and cry was for Rumsfeld's head.

The fact is, responsibilty is always borne by those at the top. And she is at the "top" of her website, therefore, she is responsible for it's contents.

Originally posted by jsobecky


The fact is, responsibilty is always borne by those at the top. And she is at the "top" of her website, therefore, she is responsible for it's contents.

I'm saving this puppy for posterity. I don't think you need to guess why.

Goose/gander. Maybe not in the right order though.

Edit: Damn near had to give myself a Big Quote.

[edit on 4-7-2006 by intrepid]

Semper:

Thank you of your defense of me. I appreciate the candor of your words. Racism is serious business if we have been discussing it for six pages. The question here, of course, is how "racism" is viewed by different races in response to what was done on Ms. McKinney's website. In response to Harte's comment, all I can say is that he used a poor choice of words, if he wanted to compliment me. But he used them despite the fact of considering how I might feel about them. Personally, I didn't see the humor about his compliment, but it was a compliment nevertheless. And if others got the humor of his words, then I accept it.

Going on....

Originally quoted by Harte
Proof" of McKinney's "true" racism is continually being asked for in this thread. Why, I do not know.

Because people have always said she was racist on other threads because of one incident with Paul McKenna. I wanted to see if these patterns were prevalent in her official work with the government. And thanks to Semper, I have finally gotten some of her quotes that prove to be problematic in terms of race.

This sort of thing is more indicative of hypocrisy than racism, at least that's how I took it.

There is a lot of hypocrisy about race. However, that depends on the eye of the beholder. However, what is very interesting is the degrees of racism applied to certain politicians. McKinney, which has so far been proven to relegate her "racism" in terms of speech, has done far less that Trent Lott and Robert Byrd. But isn't it interesting that she is raked over the coals, while Mr. Palast, Mr. Lott and others have not?

Now, I've not read Harris' other writings, but I'm not aware of any "look(ing) back at the days of plantation slavery as a time of racial harmony..." that appears in the Uncle Remus tales. The above article exhibits a certain amount of ignorance of literature, as does another article that was quoted in that thread regarding how the press, having heard Snow use the term, couldn't believe he used it and (apparently, to the author of the article anyway,) most members of the press didn't even know what he meant by it!

But certain members of the Washington Press core asked him what he meant by that. And he mumbled, "American Lore". So that indicates they did know what it meant. And if you haven't read a plethora of Harris' works, how can you make a comment that the site about Jim Crow displayed an "ignorance about literature"? In fact, it was a page uncovering how the images of Black people have been used in a derogatory light in terms of popular culture. Tar baby is no different.

And knowing that you've never heard about "tar baby": you never really know about the "other" term of tar baby unless you've been called it by other people.

Getting back to the Congresswoman, she is not my representative, hence I don't care what she does or thinks. I still have enough faith in the system to believe that if she doesn't do her job to the extent her constituency expects, then they will replace her. If she does, then they won't. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work, after all?

Obviously there are people who aren't part of her constituency who do care, most namely the author. He is not one of her constituents, yet he posts this article. And he has no power over whether she is elected or not. Which means, he shouldn't truly care as well. Yep, you're right. Hypocrisy at its best.

And one last thing. Ceci - whatever others may say about you, they certainly must agree that you have not been niggardly in your defense of Congresswoman McKinney!!!

You could have used another choice of words to describe my defense of Ms. McKinney. I thank you, however. And if other people felt humored by this, it is better than being angry, I suppose.

Originally quoted by df1

This thread is about a partisan smear campaign on a democratic representative to congress that is up for election in november, an election in which the balance of power could hang on one congressional seat. Mckinney is being painted as an out of control black racist in order to strike fear into the white voters in her congressional district for the purpose of swinging the election to her republican opponent.

That I agree with. But of course, that would be playing into the "two headed coin" that intrepid was speaking about. Ms. McKinney, like everyone else, has her prejudices. However, I think you are correct in the attempts of this thread to paint her as an "out of control Black racist". She speaks her mind and doesn't mince her words. I think ultimately, it is a question of power, race and gender.

When people feel subjugated by power, they tend to strike out at those they are most offended by. Ms. McKinney embraces her power. And some White people do not like it--especially in the South. That is why she is a target for many of these threads--opposed to Greg Palast.

Originally quoted by Harte
Anyway, you (and everyone else) obviously have individual opinions concerning what exactly is funny. I thought my post met the required conditions. This was in part due to the way the usage of "niggardly" harkened back to the Tony Snow misstep, as well as the stupidity of an aide to the D.C. Mayor actually losing his job through the unquestionably proper use of the term back in 1999. With this in mind, and also creating an opportunity for me to compliment Ceci in such a way as to poke fun at the same time, I thought it was not only funny, it was downright ingenious! Superb, even!

Again, I accept your explanation.

Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
Calling attention to this transparent manipulation and deception is my point. And as you stated earlier, no one has expressed this point of view before. So in the spirit of denying ignorance and communal sharing of opinions I have provided the preceding analysis. Its up to each individual to decide whether or not to believe my contentions, but surely no one can claim that Im offtopic.

This is something that I whole-heartedly agree on. Well said.

Originally quoted by jsobecky

You give her way too much credit. She's not that important to the American public, or Washington politics. Her biggest claim to fame recently has been that she assaulted a Capitol police officer and got away with it.

[* Gasp!!!!!*] The author, like Garbo, speaks!!!!
Then why was this story even considered in the first place? It surely couldn't have been because of the altrustic enlightenment of building racial harmony.

Originally quoted by jsobecky
The fact is, responsibilty is always borne by those at the top. And she is at the "top" of her website, therefore, she is responsible for it's contents.

Really? We'll see on other topics if you stick to your guns with this contention--or whether you're just saying this to blame Ms. McKinney. Have you written that letter yet?

[edit on 4-7-2006 by ceci2006]
mod edit to edit out long blank space at bottom of post

[edit on 5-7-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by ceci2006
McKinney, which has so far been proven to relegate her "racism" in terms of speech, has done far less that Trent Lott and Robert Byrd. But isn't it interesting that she is raked over the coals, while Mr. Palast, Mr. Lott and others have not?

Oh, but they have been... When they were in the news, (as McKinney is now) they were indeed raked over the coals here on ATS. Strom, Lott and Byrd have all had their day:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...

There are tons of posts on these three. And if you want to talk about how racist they are, go post in those threads.



[edit on 4-7-2006 by Benevolent Heretic]

Ironically I am watching an episode of "the chappell show" where dave gives his support to the white power movement.

Apparently I was late to the party, as I am not the first to identify the only reason for the attacks on mckinney and why they will relentlessly continue till november.

The Swiftboating of Rep. Cynthia McKinney
The GOP has Rep. Cynthia McKinney in its sights and does not intend to let her go. Never mind that a grand jury refused to indict her for "assaulting a police officer", a decision reached after an exhaustive 8-week investigation that included watching video tapes and interviewing many, many witnesses. With the willing cooperation of the Fraternal Order of Police, the Republicans clearly wish to prolong this non-story into the fall election season, thus giving them fertile ground for a swiftboat-like attack on the Congresswoman closer to the election.

This morning the mix-and-match FOX & Friends hosts cried in their beer because of the grand jury's actions.

During F&F's first hour, in a ridiculous segment Tiki Barber and co-hosts Kiran Chetry and Brian Kilmeade moaned and groaned about how they just couldn't understand the thinking of the grand jury. They implied that Rep. McKinney got off because of "special priveleges" extended to members of Congress. Tiki Barber ended the segment by saying that Ms. McKinney should just apologize and get it over with because, otherwise, "we're going to be talking about this again in a few months."

BH:
Ive been a libertarian (emphasis on the small "l") for over 30 years. Prior to being reborn as a libertarian I served as the campaign manager for a democratic congressional candidate. I make no claims to being an angel of virtue. Were I running the davis campaign against mckinney, I would smear mckinney in exactly the manner being used now by the republicans with the specific intent of scaring the bejesus out of southern white folks.

BTW BH, do you happen to be a southern democrat?
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Thank you, BH, for pointing that out. Unfortunately, being a new member, I have not had the chance to read all the threads on the Board. Although, I have read many.

It is always nice when someone actually does the legwork around here while others don't.





[edit on 4-7-2006 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by df1
BTW BH, do you happen to be a southern democrat?

I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of any political party.

My beliefs are most closely aligned with the Libertarian party, but I refuse to be a party member.

I do not doubt that people (republicans) are using this incident as a way to smear McKinney. That's what politicians do. All politicians. All parties. I was just saying that this thread wasn't about the politics of the matter as far as I knew. Maybe it is and I'm just being naive. But ever since this incident occurred and McKinney said she was being picked on because she was a black woman (playing the race and gender cards in the same hand) I have had a problem with her.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My issue with her is about race, responsibility and victimization, not politics. I really try not to play politics.

Originally quoted by Benevolent Heretic
My issue with her is about race, responsibility and victimization, not politics.

See, that's the interesting thing about this. And of course, it is valid. But the question I have here is who is playing the victim when highlighting Mr. Palast's remarks?

And what are the degrees of victimhood compared to segregationist tactics and simple derogatory words?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Oh, but they have been... When they were in the news, (as McKinney is now) they were indeed raked over the coals here on ATS. Strom, Lott and Byrd have all had their day:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...

The operative words are " had their day". The total number of thread pages in these links devoted to the other racists totaled less than 4 thread pages. Yet the mckinney thread drones on day after day, soon to exceed 7 thread pages by itself.

Are ATS members more tolerant of white racists than they are of black of racists? Without factoring in partisan politics this would appear to be the case.
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Originally quoted by df1
The operative words are " had their day". The total number of thread pages in these links devoted to the other racists totaled less than 4 thread pages. Yet the mckinney thread drones on day after day, soon to exceed 7 thread pages by itself.

This thread is not the only one. The others about her go on much longer than that.

Are ATS members more tolerant of white racists than they are of black racists? Without factoring in partisan politics this would appear to be the case.

That is an interesting question. I would like to find this out also whether others would agree or disagree with this notion. If it were the case, the questions of "victimhood" and "who" plays it would take on a more fascinating meaning. Especially with this thread.