Im ashamed

i used to think that this was a pretty legit website, i was suprised to see that the video of the plane hitting the pentegon that someone posted up here 2 years before the government released that video was the exact same video "seriously i give props to whoever put that up"

www.popularmechanics.com...

But after reading this and a little common sense im ashamed of my self for believing everything i saw on here about 9-11,- how ever i still think bush used 9-11 for his own personal gain in iraq.

anyways please read that article and post your thoughts.

Don't be ashamed. Many have been through your series of emotions, the guilt for thinking those we elect could not actually care less about the plebs they're meant to serve.

Read what's on this link and begin to re-educate yourself.

[edit on 27-6-2006 by uknumpty]

that popular mechanics artical is full of crap... it says that the steel never melted yet we see molten metal flowing out of the sides of the towers:
video.google.com...


I don't balme you for beliving it all though. After all it's easier to belive in govenment incompitence than a govenment that just want to screw you over

Great link. Thanks for posting that.

Originally posted by kipman725
that popular mechanics artical is full of crap... it says that the steel never melted yet we see molten metal flowing out of the sides of the towers

How do you know that's 'molten metal'? And even if it was metal, who's to say it's steel. There are many types of metal in buildings.

And you allso have an Airliner made of aluminiun alloys
And Jet Fuel mixing with insulations etc, a mixture that may posses most qualities of Napalm (burning temp will be lower)

Don't be, conspiracy theories are in themselves intriguing.

When the question is 'conspiracy or cock-up?' many of us instinctively gravitate towards the conspiracy. In some ways it's more comforting than realising your own intelligence services and air-defence were just not up to the job.

Add in the selective presentation of the available facts, the willingness of many to repost half-truths on their own websites and you get web-groupthink.
The result is 'of course we're all correct and anyone who disagrees is part of the conspiracy' - it's easy to get sucked in.

It's happening now regarding the 7/7 Tube bombings in London (and presumably Madrid). If the 'net had been around in '39 we'd be arguing about the German invasion of Poland and whether it was justified as the Germans rolled into France.

I agree Governments exploit such opportunities, that's their stock in trade. Doesn't mean they did it though.

Don't worry, if I believed the hopeless drivel PM delivers, I'd feel ashamed as well.

The 'War Games' mentioned in that link on the morning of 911, the UK had the same situation with Security forces and reaction resources having the exact same sceanrios being palyed out on the morning of the 7/7 - same cover different place

The 'war games' you mention in London were held by Visor with a few representatives of a commercial enterprise (reportedly a bank) and featured a 'paper force' of 1,000 personnel - presumably company employees. There were not, as the conspiracy nuts have it, 1,000 people in one room.


If Visor Consultants were planning a scenario and yet involved in this fantastic conspiracy would they not be likely to a, deny the conference took place; b, state it was on an entirely different subject? They could have done either very easily.

Don't be fooled by the repetition of half-truths

Originally posted by zakattack

anyways please read that article and post your thoughts.

The article has been linked to before, Zak. They always find someway to twist the facts around and debunk them in their minds though. Oh well to each their own, I say.

Originally posted by Strangerous

Don't be fooled by the repetition of half-truths

Speaking of repetition.....what are the odds that two "war game scenerios" would be taking place that have the exact scenerios that are taking place in reality at the exact same time? 9/11 and 7/7 both had these war games going on. Talk about another coincidence in a mountain of coincidences.

I spoke to a guy at the w/e who plans contingency IT operations for many commercial concerns and hospitals.

I discussed this very point with him and he's adamant such exercises happen all the time from the lowest to the highest levels - so it's very likely someone somewhere was planning responses to such scenarios before, during and after the bombings.

7/7 weren't the first London bombings and won't be the last, plus London faces the risk of major flooding, disruption of a creaking transport system as well as all the other 'big city' risks.

Originally posted by jra
Great link. Thanks for posting that.

Originally posted by kipman725
that popular mechanics artical is full of crap... it says that the steel never melted yet we see molten metal flowing out of the sides of the towers

How do you know that's 'molten metal'? And even if it was metal, who's to say it's steel. There are many types of metal in buildings.

I say thats steel from the structure and not the aluminuium plane becuse the molten matirial "lights up" like steel:

Steel:
www.nwpipe.com...

aluminium:
www.world-aluminium.org...

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Strangerous

Don't be fooled by the repetition of half-truths

Speaking of repetition.....what are the odds that two "war game scenerios" would be taking place that have the exact scenerios that are taking place in reality at the exact same time? 9/11 and 7/7 both had these war games going on. Talk about another coincidence in a mountain of coincidences.

"Exact scenerios"?

Originally posted by kipman725

Originally posted by jra
Great link. Thanks for posting that.

Originally posted by kipman725
that popular mechanics artical is full of crap... it says that the steel never melted yet we see molten metal flowing out of the sides of the towers

How do you know that's 'molten metal'? And even if it was metal, who's to say it's steel. There are many types of metal in buildings.

I say thats steel from the structure and not the aluminuium plane becuse the molten matirial "lights up" like steel:

Steel:
www.nwpipe.com...

aluminium:
www.world-aluminium.org...

"lights up"?

What evidences do you have thats its in fact even metal?

Originally posted by Vushta

"Exact scenerios"?

Yes, for 9/11 highjacked planes flying into buildings. As far as 7/7, I'm not up on the war games going on. If I'm wrong feel free to post what the exact wargames were.

This is the statement issued by Peter Powers of Visor Consulting

"Thank you for your message. Given the volume of emails about events on 7 July and a commonly expressed misguided belief that our exercise revealed prescient behaviour, or was somehow a conspiracy (noting that several websites interpreted our work that day in an inaccurate / naive / ignorant / hostile manner) it has been decided to issue a single email response as follows:

It is confirmed that a short number of 'walk through' scenarios planed [sic] well in advance had commenced that morning for a private company in London (as part of a wider project that remains confidential) and that two scenarios related directly to terrorist bombs at the same time as the ones that actually detonated with such tragic results. One scenario in particular, was very similar to real time events.

However, anyone with knowledge about such ongoing threats to our capital city will be aware that (a) the emergency services have already practiced several of their own exercises based on bombs in the underground system (also reported by the main news channels) and (b) a few months ago the BBC broadcast a similar documentary on the same theme, although with much worse consequences [??]. It is hardly surprising therefore, that we chose a feasible scenario - but the timing and script was nonetheless, a little disconcerting.

In short, our exercise (which involved just a few people as crisis managers actually responding to a simulated series of activities involving, on paper, 1000 staff) quickly became the real thing and the players that morning responded very well indeed to the sudden reality of events.

Beyond this no further comment will be made and based on the extraordinary number of messages from ill informed people, no replies will henceforth be given to anyone unable to demonstrate a bona fide reason for asking (e.g. accredited journalist / academic).

[ signed ] Peter Power"

(quoted in London Underground Exercises: Peter Power Responds, Jon Rappoport, July 13 2005
www.infowars.com...)

Taken from this source: www.globalresearch.ca...

Any Londoner could quite easily have planned this scenario (or a far worse one) - merely by looking at the tube map & applying a little local knowledge (eg bombing the Tube where it crosses under the Thames - in one place the tunnel is known to be already weak).

Again I ask you - if they were behind the bombings wouldn't they have used a better cover story than admitting they were spookily close to what actually happened?

If they're that smart why we're they so dumb?

While we're on the subject of coincidences how about this?

Transcript from a BBC Panorama programme broadcast in 2004

9am: News 24 headlines: In the past hour there have been three major explosions on the London Underground. The first at 8.10am on the Piccadilly Line between Knightsbridge and Hyde Park Corner.

The second at 8.16 on the Central Line between Tottenham Court Road and Oxford Circus and the third at 8.27 as a train was arriving at Vauxhall station in Stockwell on the Victoria line.
** snip**
Emergency services have been called to all three scenes. There are no reports on number of casualties and the police say its too early to identify a possible cause. London underground is now closed and police are now urging people not to travel.

10.10: We're just getting reports that there has been a further explosion in central London in the region around Liverpool street station, we will of course bring you more news on that as soon as we can.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Is anyone suggesting the 'Panorama' did it? No they're not as it doesn't fit their pre-conceived conspiracy theories - as I say selective repetition of half-truths.

[EDIT - adding additional info I thought relevant]

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Strangerous]

This is from an old thread I posted some time ago, about PM, just thought I'd toss it in the mix.

Originally posted by Sauron
I came across this article written by Peter Sault the other day so I emailed Peter to see if I could get his permission to repost it here on ATS. Well I received Peter's reply this morning with his permission to do so, so here it is in it's entirety. Any opinions welcome.

'

Popular Mechanics' & Other CIA Front Organizations

From Peter Wakefield Sault
[email protected]
2-11-5

I have just read Jim Hoffman's response to Popular Mechanics 9/11 article that tries to debunk the truth about 9/11 by the use of the 'straw man' tactic. Although everything in his response is quite correct and exposes the straw man for what it is, I feel Mr Hoffman was dealing with this particular issue at the wrong level. Approached from a different angle the article tells us who really was behind 9/11 and who is still desperately trying to cover it up. This is how it works:-


'Popular Mechanics' is published by the Hearst Corporation, proprietor (chairman of the board). George R. Hearst grandson of William Randolph Hearst, sometime would-be builder of large aeroplanes.
www.business-magazines.com...
www.cjr.org...
www.hearstcorp.com...

The president and CEO of Hearst Corporation is one Victor F. Ganzi, since June 1st, 2002. Mr Ganzi is also an officer/director of the Hearst Foundation.

Click for a full size view

www.hearstcorp.com...
www.oaklandwib.org...

A close look at the titles of the books on the shelf behind Mr Ganzi in the photo (GANZI_2003_2_BW.jpg) reveals that some part of Mr Ganzi's early career was spent working for the owners of the Atlantic City Boardwalk and associated hotels and casinos; sometime friends of a certain Mr Frank Sinatra, as I recall.

Victor F. Ganzi is on the board of directors of The National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University (CASA), alongside Columba Bush, wife of Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, brother of George W. Bush, President of the USA and son of George H.W. Bush, former DG of the CIA.
www.nationalfamilies.org...


Victor F. Ganzi is a member of B.E.N.S. - "Business Executives for National Security" wherein we learn that "When it came time to evaluate In-Q-Tel, the CIA's innovative technology development enterprise, Congress turned to BENS"
In October 2002, B.E.N.S. received a "CIA Agency Seal Medallion" for its work on the In-Q-Tel program.

In-Q-Tel? It is described as "A new partnership between the CIA and the ‘private sector’(my apostrophes),” making it a classic front for traditional fascism and other American-style old-fashioned family values
www.in-q-tel.org...

A look at the names involved in In-Q-Tel quickly reveals it as a front for Zionism Central.

www.cia.gov...

So, we should all be most grateful to 'Popular Mechanics' and its new editor James Meigs for indirectly telling us who the real perpetrators of 9/11 were by its rather long-winded "blind 'em with science" attempt to suppress the truth of behalf of those perpetrators.

Kind Regards Peter Sault,

Reposted at ATS by me Sauron with the permission of the author Peter Sault [email protected]

My ATS thread 'Popular Mechanics' & Other CIA Front Organizations

[edit on 27/6/2006 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Strangerous

Don't be fooled by the repetition of half-truths

Speaking of repetition.....what are the odds that two "war game scenerios" would be taking place that have the exact scenerios that are taking place in reality at the exact same time? 9/11 and 7/7 both had these war games going on. Talk about another coincidence in a mountain of coincidences.

Or is it possible that the enemies of the West knew when those exercises were going on planned ops during that in order to buy some time with a slower response? The initial thought to go through the first responders minds is "oh yeah, there is a drill today - I wonder if this is part of it?"

It is actually a pretty standard procedure.

Originally posted by Marid Audran


Or is it possible that the enemies of the West knew when those exercises were going on planned ops during that in order to buy some time with a slower response? The initial thought to go through the first responders minds is "oh yeah, there is a drill today - I wonder if this is part of it?"

I have thought that thought before. That would still indicate someone on the inside.

It is actually a pretty standard procedure.

Standard procedure maybe but what are the odds that it happens on the exact day in the exact fashion? Pretty darn high.