What's the significance of the hand sign with first & last fingers extended?

Originally posted by Dock6
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People are going to believe what they want to believe and a lot of them are going to try to persuade others to believe it too.

There are photos of Berlusconi using the hand sign. Please don't waste your time or mine trying to convince me that Burlusconi is a Long Horns supporter too.

Maybe, just maybe, he's trying to make himself seem cool and hip with the young voters.

Crazy idea, no?

, unless it were deliberate and co-ordinated.

Are you actually suggesting that the best explanation for lots of people making the 'rock and roll wohoo' sign is that they are all part of a secret cabal??? I mean, thats the best explanation???

masonic light
or, at least, so they would have us believe

Part of the whole theme was devil worship though, but more as a lark than a seriouos devotion to his satanic majesty, or some such.

Apart from the symbolism that has already been expressed here, I am also led to believe that this particular hand gesture is also meant to be symbolic of the inverted pentagram, also a 'satanic' symbol.
It would be interesting to note if there are any particular differences in the way that our 'esteemed leaders' make this gesture as compared to other users of it, let us not forget that the swastika was originally a sign of peace, but when used inverted by the despotic loon Herr Hitler, it came to represent something different altogether.

On a related note, I think that this Bush gesture is far more telling of the mentality of our so called leaders...

files.abovetopsecret.com...

When I find one of Mr. Blair I'll post that too!

Q

[edit on 27-6-2006 by THEQUANTUMSHAMAN]

Dio was the one who started the horns sign. As a fan, Ive seen him in several interviews. He states basically that he used to watch his grandmother, who was italian, do it alot because it was believed to warn off the evil eye. In fact, many primitive cultures in the world make similar handgestures to symbolize horns, which have always been believed to turn back evil, especially the dreaded evil eye. Even my grandmother told me that before she started listening to televangelist nonsense, her own mother, who was Slovenian, would often make the gesture at others in arguements to ward off against ill wishes.

Besides, I thought the whole "Rock is part of a satanic plot" died with the Reagan administration?

Anyway, you have all angered me, and I have wasted time enough here. I wish to get back to what I was doing before the Dark Lord told me to reply to this thread: sacrificing an old church lady while playing Iron Maiden's Children of the Damned backwards.

Corna is what the sign is called and according to wikiedia, Anoton LeVay started using it in the 60's. So Dio, attempting to make hi8mself seem "badder" and in touch with his inner satan, started using it in 1979 but Gene Simmons claims he's showing the sign on the cover of Love Gun from 1977.

en.wikipedia.org...

Love Gun album cover:




you decide

It's a sign to represent a bull. So it can be "Hook 'em Horns" for Texas, which is what George Bush does it for, or it can be a representation or symbolic connection to:

Male virility and strength, Taurus, the Minotaur, Zeus, and the much maligned Ba'al (God of Thunder, another "KISS" reference), who had a P.R. job done on him to make him a representation of "evil" when the Semitic priests decided to go with one god instead of the many they had before. The Ba'al cult was also popular in Egypt during the 18th dynasty.

The irony here is that Ba'al was the "Son of God" (El), and later, Jesus, another "Son of God" would call upon the demon "Be'el-zebub" to help with exorcisms (according to Luke). Well, Jesus said that he makes all things new again.

Of course, in this modern age, we're not supposed to be comfortable with all this sorcery and necromancy and animal worship and human sacrifice that underlies our favorite "bake-sale" religions. But it's all still there if you just look a little closer at it.

Maybe Bush and other world leaders use it just because they know it'll wind up all the conspiracy theorists

Originally posted by Crakeur
So Dio, attempting to make hi8mself seem "badder" and in touch with his inner satan, started using it in 1979 but Gene Simmons claims he's showing the sign on the cover of Love Gun from 1977.

I'm almost completely sure that I recall Dio using it prior to '79 (and prior to Gene's claim of '77), when he was still the frontman for Rainbow. Maybe I'll be able to find a pic; if so I'll post the link.

I think the poster originally asked what it stood for not who did it in rock and roll first. As far s I can tell it is an ancient (i.e. medieval if not earlier) gesture (sometimes a charm or symbol) from the Mediterrian area, southern Italy, Sicly, Greece etc used to ward off the evil eye and specifiically direct it back to its sender. Since heavy metal is notoriously shallow, I doubt any of the stoners who used it have any idea what it means. Alot like the old phrase "Kill them all, let God sort them out" dates back to the high middle ages and the Albegesian crusade, and was specifcally stated by the bishop in charge of the "holy" arm (as opposed to the secular arm) of the crusade during the sack of Toulouse when many of the faithful and "heretics" took refuge in the local catherdral. When asked by the general in charge how they would be able to tell the difference, the bishop replied "Kill them all, let God sort them out." and so they torched the catherdral.

I sincerely doubt that bush et al are keeping with an old mediteranean supperstition and trying to ward off the evil eye. It seems far more reasonable that they are doing the hook'em horns OR the 'rock and roll' sign.

Anyway, back on topic, my understanding was that, as well as representing the devil or whatever, the 2 fingered sign was American Sign Language for 'I love you' and that was why world leaders were sometimes seen to use it. Of course that may be wrong and they may just all be RJD fans .......

No the ASL I Love you is as follows

A single sign is made from the letters I, L, and Y.

from the ASL dictionary project
HERE


I - little finger extended
L - Index and thumb extended
Y - index and little fingers extended

all 3 extended I Love You

[edit on 28-6-2006 by stalkingwolf]

Originally posted by Nygdan

Mr Peel
Google has been very helpful:

members.aol.com...

Seems odd that you already know what its supposed to mean but were asking everyone what it means.

[edit on 27-6-2006 by Nygdan]

It may seem odd if you don't take into account that I posted here before looking elsewhere. It was because of the less than helpful responses here that I Googled it. Googling a hand gesture isn't going to be anyone's first choice, considering the variability of descriptions.

In any case, since posting that, some additional information has surfaced. And for those of you staying on topic, thank you.

This seems to be something with a lot of explanations.

Originally posted by Essan
Maybe Bush and other world leaders use it just because they know it'll wind up all the conspiracy theorists

LOL. I think there's a lot of misdirection out there... but why that picture of Laura Bush making the gesture? Is she in on the joke, too?

Originally posted by Enkidu
Of course, in this modern age, we're not supposed to be comfortable with all this sorcery and necromancy and animal worship and human sacrifice that underlies our favorite "bake-sale" religions. But it's all still there if you just look a little closer at it.

"As it was in the Days of Noe."

This is the time we live today. This is why we do not care.

But yes,

there are Satanic Implications behind the Sign.
there are Sporting Implications behind the Sign.
and it does mean "I love You" in Sign.

And despite Gene's insistance, I'll believe someone who didn't hide behind a Demon's Mask, and support Ronnie as the First to use it during his shows. Demon's are not all that bright, and original thought is their failing.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by grover
"Kill them all, let God sort them out" dates back to the high middle ages and the Albegesian crusade, and was specifcally stated by the bishop in charge of the "holy" arm (as opposed to the secular arm) of the crusade during the sack of Toulouse when many of the faithful and "heretics" took refuge in the local catherdral. When asked by the general in charge how they would be able to tell the difference, the bishop replied "Kill them all, let God sort them out." and so they torched the catherdral.

I believe it was Beziers France, roughly 1208, 1210, something like that. They slaughtered more than 20,000 people. Men, women, children...didn't seem to matter. The Legate's name was Amalric Arnaud, the Abbot of Citeaux, who was speaking to Simon de Montfort. His answer was actually Latin, "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoset", which literally translates to, "Kill them all, God will know his own." It was most likely a reference to Timothy 2:19, "The Lord knoweth them that are his."

that sounds about right, though I thought it was talouse though. Could be wrong. wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. point was the heavy metal pinheads adopted the phrase and of course had no idea its history, same with hand gesture to eard off the evil eye.

Originally posted by Mr_Peel
It may seem odd if you don't take into account that I posted here before looking elsewhere.

Fair enough.

It was because of the less than helpful responses here that I Googled it.

Why were they unhelpful though? I seriously doubt that when bush or someonelike that makes that sign, that they are trying to ward off the evil eye. With bush in particular, its probably the Texas long-horns thing, with most politicians, its a pathetic attempt to say 'Look at me, I am young and hip". THey're not playing in to some old italian supersition. I doubt that there is a little baggie of salt in Air Force One, for example.

This seems to be something with a lot of explanations.

Indeed, it has turned into something quite interesting.

Shane
there are Satanic Implications behind the Sign.

Such as what though?

and support Ronnie as the First to use it during his shows

Woohooo DIO Woohoo! *thrashes head, makes the sign*

grover
point was the heavy metal pinheads adopted the phrase

Hmm, sounds like we have a dissaffected disco-lover here...

j/k man!
Seriously Metallica Rules.

When I was a kid (yesyes, when men were men and women were ladies and all children were above average) it meant one of two things: Go to hell (the devil's horns) or bullsquat (the bull's horns) depending upon the context. And I'm not sure inferring the incorrect reference was a big issue.

I do recall in those innocent halcyon days of yore that the reprimand for "the horns" was less severe than the punishment for "the finger". "Handy" info to have at the time.

Originally posted by Nygdan

Shane
there are Satanic Implications behind the Sign.

Such as what though?

if you check the links I posted earlier, I think one of them says something about it resembling satan's head (horns, etc).

Oh please, it has like a dozen or more mainstream meanings.

"Call me", GO LONGHORNS!, rock on!, get back evil eye, Satan, "I love you", etc.

Originally posted by khatores
Oh please, it has like a dozen or more mainstream meanings.

"Call me", GO LONGHORNS!, rock on!, get back evil eye, Satan, "I love you", etc.

We've already gone over all of this in the bulk of the thread. Each of these has been expored in detail, and several times at that. Where has this thread left to go?