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Israeli Soldier Kidnapped, Israel Plans Gaza Offensive With Reoccupation A Possibility

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posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Knights
Due to Hamas being in control, I think a terrorist attack can be declared as war, as we all know Hamas is in effect, a terrorist organisation. I doubt carpet bombing will be implemented but if necessery to their cause I fully back such devices. I may seem extreme but 'Israel' is not what they are fighting for, they are fighting against Israel showing their prejudices and using Israel as a vice to justify their terrorist actions. In short, i'm fully fully behind Israel and the actions they choose to resolve this horrible situation.



As knights put, hamas are a terrorist organisation at heart, even though they are elected by their own people, they planned this operation, carried it out , and kidnap a israeli soilder and are bitching about israel relasing the women and children in their jails. (Since when has israel even done what hamas wanted)

As for carpet bombing the gaza strip, uncle sam wont let them go that far, bad PR for the US, irsael is just flexing it muslce to show hamas that they are boss and if hamas want a chance in goverment they have to play the game, The IRA had to give up the fight to go into goverment, and decide that the cause was best served by laying down the arms and taking up goverment.( yeah i knw that the irish goverment isnt excatly sorted, but it's getting there)

Hamas wants it cake and eat it, wants to be in goverment and to be offically reckonised by the world as a legit political force, but they still want to play terrorist by firing rockets in israel and kidnapping people and playing the old we are an oppressed people card.

it cant be both, it it wants to be a terrorist group, then palastine is buggered as israel will cut off all trade and movement, the west will stop all aide, and the people will suffer the most. or it can lay down it's ak's and decide that they can have their own state, israel isnt gonna suddenly say, ok you win, we will all pack and leave the area. they have to live 2gther somehow.




posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by snakebite
it cant be both, it it wants to be a terrorist group, then palastine is buggered as israel will cut off all trade and movement, the west will stop all aide, and the people will suffer the most. or it can lay down it's ak's and decide that they can have their own state, israel isnt gonna suddenly say, ok you win, we will all pack and leave the area. they have to live 2gther somehow.


I think you basically explained your own argument there!
Hamas won't openly delcare they are a hostile and terrorist nation, instead play the card of the oppressed 'that's my land' theory, justifying their activities and killing of innocents.

The truth, being more of an Anti-Semitism attitude, nothing to do with 'my land'. Until the last Jew has moved from Israel the 'war' will continue.

Due to the terrorist nature of the Government I do not blame Israel for viewing the attack as an act of war.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 06:11 AM
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I see the IDF targeted a Palestinian power plant. That is a direct contravention of the Geneva Convention. Targets that disproportionally affect civilans are out of bounds when it comes to the Geneva Conventions. Yet another entry in the long list of breaches to international law carried out by Israel.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by subz
I see the IDF targeted a Palestinian power plant. That is a direct contravention of the Geneva Convention. Targets that disproportionally affect civilans are out of bounds when it comes to the Geneva Conventions. Yet another entry in the long list of breaches to international law carried out by Israel.


Please can you provide a link indicating the news story?
I was always under the impression all power in Palestine originated from Israel's power plants and then India?



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by Knights
Please can you provide a link indicating the news story?
I was always under the impression all power in Palestine originated from Israel's power plants and then India?


Sure, here you go:

Israeli forces attack Gaza power station


Israeli warplanes fired at least nine missiles at Gaza's only power station, cutting electricity to 65 percent of the Gaza Strip, engineers at the station said. The station's three functioning turbines and a gasoline reservoir were engulfed in flames, raising the specter of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, where water pumps are powered by electricity.

That is illegal, no question.

[edit on 28/6/06 by subz]



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by Wisconsin
As far as the Palestinians are concerned, NUKE 'EM. Drive 'em all out of Palestine and put 'em on a deserted Island to fend for themselves. They claimed it first- history backs that claim. Let the Palestinians go to Saudi Arabia or something.
Wisconsin




You'dd nuke the Palestinians? Talk about extremism...do you realise how DUMB that suggestion sounds ? LOL, if you would know anything about the situation there, you'dd have realise that if you NUKE Palestina then Isreal would be affected aswell.

By your logic, all American poeple should move elsewhere cause they "took" it from NATIVE americans, which according to history "owned" that country....

You have to realise that calling for the Nuclear obliteration of a country is an act of extremism


It's this sort of hate-spewing nonsense from uneducated poeple that make thier oppinions based on total BS that realy pisses me of here on this site, imho MODS should not allow this...



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by subz
Targets that disproportionally affect civilans are out of bounds when it comes to the Geneva Conventions.

So is sending suicide bombers to blow up civilians, or kidnapping and summarily executing soldiers.



dyepes
some of the comments here far supercede any kind of hatred many alleged terrorists are accused of.

Hardly, what we have here is rhetoric. No one here has, say, brainwashed any mentally-handicapped children into wearing suicide bomb belts and sent them off to civilian centers.


Now if we follow advice such as that given by Wisconsin here, we would have actions even worse than the NAZIS.

If Israel is hit with chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons, the ONLY proper resonse is a nuclear attack. What the Nazis did was specfically target and kill many civilians, which is what the Palestinians are doing, not the yehudis.


They have cut off all land and sea travel routes. There is absolutley no food coming in now. No clothes, no medicine, no people except the army

If the palestinians didn't want to be occupied, they shouldn't've gone to war with the yehudis.


malcr
The Zionists hung British servicemen. I can't remember any Palestin ians executing non Israelis

Then you haven't been paying very much attention. Many non-israelis have died in the attacks that targetted civilians, and the palestinians have kidnapped and murdered people outside of the levant too.


So if Mexico invaded California whilst the UN did nothing that there wouldn't be a segment of the US population resorting to "terrorist" methods

This is irrelevant and a poor analogy, but firstly, yes, some people would be targeting civilians and killing them and thats clearly terrorism, no need for quotation marks. Any group that went after mexican civilians in such a situation would be a terrorist organization. Its a poor analogy, because the israelis didnt' invade palestine, rather, the palestinians and other arabs went to war with israel, lost, and now, are under occupation. It'd be as if southern california was ceded to the mexicans, and then people in arizona went to war with mexico, lost, and were conquered. They'd deserve it for going to war. You can't start a war and then expect to not have any consequences once you loose.


knights
I'm sure we all know 'Israel' was a wasteland before the Jews moved in, colonised the area, built it up into a thriving land and then the Palestinians claim they want it all back!

Thats bogus. Palestine was a well settled, relatively advanced (for its time) colony of the Ottoman empire, and that was before the brits came into play even. Gaza is more backwards under the palestinians than under the yehudis, but thats completely irrelevant. The palestinians dont' have any of the resources to build up a region, BECAUSE they are denied those resources by their occupiers, and occupied people CLEARLY can't be expected to be as well developed in terms of infrastructure as their occupiers.


Until the last Jew has moved from Israel the 'war' will continue.

There is nothing to support this statement. The arabs and jews have lived in that region for generations, and appear to have been intermixing and interbreeding all along. The palestinian terror organizations aren't tryig to eradicte the jewish race, they are trying to destroy the state of israel, and that is the only thing that they will be satisfied with. And, clearly, the state of israel has the right to occupy people that are trying to destroy it.


snakebit
As for carpet bombing the gaza strip,

Carpet bombing gaza isn't ever going to happen and its a horribly stupid idea, it'd be an incredible and unjustified crime against humanity, even today the US can just barely justify firebombing dreseden into ashes, and those people were nazis!
You can't carpet bomb a civilian center over a solider being executed. If you don't want your soldiers kidnapped and executed, you don't station them in occupied territory. Isreal can't claim that this is some horrible universal crime that must be avenged, or so great a threat to their security that they've got to embark on genocide in order to protect themselves.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 08:36 AM
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Complicating matters was a new claim by the Hamas-linked Popular Resistance Committees, one of the three groups that carried out Sunday's assault, that it had also kidnapped a Jewish settler, 18-year-old Eliahu Asheri, in the West Bank.

Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said the report was being taken "very seriously."

At a news conference at a Gaza City mosque on Wednesday, PRC militants displayed what they said was a copy of Asheri's identification card, and reiterated threats to kill him if Israel did not end its Gaza invasion.


Yes, I agree it is wrong for Israel to strike a power station and cut supply to the area.

But

In my eyes, The use of a hostage[s] in such a scenario from a 'Government' is again a serious breach, in a way I think an 'eye for an eye' scenario. Threatening to kill this hostage[s] can't be played down.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by subz
Targets that disproportionally affect civilans are out of bounds when it comes to the Geneva Conventions.

So is sending suicide bombers to blow up civilians, or kidnapping and summarily executing soldiers.

Never said it was'nt. But for an internationally recognized country to stoop to the level of terrorist organisations and target civilians is unacceptable. Terrorists organisations are banned specifically because of their tactics, when a full blown nation does the same what does that say?

We quite rightly expect more from Israel than we do from Qassam Martyrs Brigade. If you accept the practices of Israel then you cannot rebuke Qassam, Hamas, Al-Qaeda etc regarding their tactics. Well you can but you'd be a hypocrite.

[edit on 28/6/06 by subz]



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:47 AM
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Source
Israel turned up the pressure on Palestinian militants to release a captive soldier Wednesday, sending its warplanes to bomb a Hamas training camp after knocking out electricity and water supplies for most of the 1.3 million residents of the Gaza Strip.



Source
About 72% of the fat free mass of the human body is made of water. To function properly the body requires between one and seven litres of water per day to avoid dehydration, the precise amount depending on the level of activity, temperature, humidity, and other factors.


So, a group of terrorists kidnap someone and Israel decides:
Let's cut off power and water. Let's punish innocent people and children. Maybe it is just me, but where I live I'd not stand for my Government doing that. In fact, maybe that should be the new Policy the Metropolitan Police should do? Someone's been kidnapped in London, let's cut off all water to them? No wait...we're not meant to punish the innocent for the actions of the guilty.

But who cares? It's only some Muslim children starving.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Israeli forces push into Gaza

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli tanks backed by helicopter gunships and artillery pushed into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday, stepping up pressure on Palestinian militants to release an abducted soldier.


newsbox.msn.co.uk... 4996&d=20060628&do=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk&i=http://newsbox.msn.co.uk/mediaexportlive&ks=0&mc=5&ml=ma&lc=en&ae=windows-1252

[edit on 28-6-2006 by Denied]



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by subz
recognized country to stoop to the level of terrorist organisations and target civilians is unacceptable.

They haven't targeted civilians, they've cut of electricity to a portion of the gaza strip. Maybe they don't want the kidnapped soldier to have his testicles shocked with live wires.


Terrorists organisations are banned specifically because of their tactics, when a full blown nation does the same what does that say?

Yeah, lets try that line when israel goes into palestine, avoids the militias, and specifically fires rocket and bombs at civilians, demanding that if the palestinian government doesn't give into their demands, more civilians will die.


If you accept the practices of Israel then you cannot rebuke Qassam, Hamas, Al-Qaeda etc regarding their tactics. Well you can but you'd be a hypocrite.


A hypocrite is someone that says cutting off electricity is terrorism, but targeting and murdering civilians is justifiable.


newsbox
Another group threatened to kill a Jewish settler it said it seized in the West Bank if Israel continued the raid. Israeli authorities said the settler has been missing since Sunday.

And now the yehudis will have reason to launch a similar operation in the West Bank and possibly start attacking the PA government offices.


As far as the chem weapons mentioned earlier, its not Hamas, but a branch of Abbas's (the executive of the PA) group, Al-Aqsa, that has threatened to use chemical weapons.

I seriously have to wonder at the rationale that says isreal shouldn't retaliate once a group of zealots use gas to exterminate jews. They've been through that before, they're not going to sit around hemming and hawing over the 'cycle of violence'.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Nydgen, we'd not accept the Government of the U.S. to invade Mexico, Canada, Britain, Spain, etc, because someone has been kidnapped. There actions, will result in the deaths of many innocent people - especailly when they stop civilians from being able to drink water. Something we need as human beings. Sorry, but children should be punished for the actions of adults?

That's civilisation? That's what we want to achieve? To me, they're the same as the terrorists.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Nydgen, we'd not accept the Government of the U.S. to invade Mexico, Canada, Britain, Spain, etc, because someone has been kidnapped.

Irrelevant. There is no sovereign nation of palestine. There is an isreali occupied territory. Even though the yehudis pulled their settlements out of gaza, they still occupy gaza, neither it, nor the west bank, are sovreign nations.


There actions, will result in the deaths of many innocent people

Then the palestinians shouldn't be attacking military outposts and taking soldiers prisoner. If they don't want war, then don't fight a war.


Sorry, but children should be punished for the actions of adults?

Such is war.


That's civilisation? That's what we want to achieve?

It is not the responsibility of the Israelis to foster, create, or protect, a civlized palestinian society. They occupy the palestinian territories, when they are attacked from it, they are perfectly permited to send troops in, demolish houses, and dig up the ground to look for their soldiers or attack and disrupt the resistance. Their concern is the security of israel, not the fortunes of the palestinian people.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:43 AM
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So then you have no problem with the terrorist attacks? If it is fine for the Israeli Military and Government to take over land as they see fit, if it is a "part of war" where innocent people are killed than it is the same for both?



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
So then you have no problem with the terrorist attacks?

I am completely opposed to terrorist attacks. THe yehudis have not commited terrorist attacks here.


If it is fine for the Israeli Military and Government to take over land as they see fit,

Of course it is, its called war. Thats not terrorism, thats war.


if it is a "part of war" where innocent people are killed than it is the same for both?

No, its clearly different to be trying to kill the people that want to kill you, and killing an uninvolved person in the process, than to go after, target, and murder the uninvolved person.

If a person has an enemy, you are supposed to attack him, to stop him, not murder his friends who have nothign to do with the situation and threaten to murder more if he doesn't give in to your demands.

If the palestinians want their land back, then they need to attack the IDY and Isreali government, NOT brainwash kids into strapping on suicide belts and sending them on public buses or into markets. Thats terrorism.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I see... as far as I can tell, some of the comments here far supercede any kind of hatred many alleged terrorists are accused of.


While the Warsaw Ghetto was fighting for its life, the world had called another conference. They met in Bermuda and, again, absolutely nothing was done to help.


Unfortunately that is exactly what is happening now. The word will hold its meetings, and the West will simply let Gaza be destroyed. Much like they let Warsaw get taken.

Now if we follow advice such as that given by Wisconsin here, we would have actions even worse than the NAZIS.


Now you've done it.

That is, quite possibly, the most ridiculous, overblown, anti-semetic statement I have ever heard. Let me ask you teh following:

Do the Israelis enter Gaza in the dead of night, line its occupants against a wall and shoot them for being Palestinians?

Do the Israelis force huddling masses of Palestinians into barns and warehouses, locking them in and setting the building on fire?

Do the Israelis use Palestinians as forced labor, going so far as to sell Palestinians to one another?

Do the Israelis herd the Palestinians into camps, surrounded by razorwire, and work them to death? Do they have ovens for their bones?

You have NO CLUE as to horror and barbaracy forced upon the Jews in the Holocaust. To describe the loss of electricity and potential re-occupation of Gaza as anything near the Holocaust shows just how little you understand of history- or just how anti-semetic you are.

DE



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
So, a group of terrorists kidnap someone and Israel decides:
Let's cut off power and water. Let's punish innocent people and children...

But who cares? It's only some Muslim children starving.


Pssst, isn't Gaza a costal region with miles of beaches for people to go to with pails and buckets? Oh, the horror, the horror! But who cares about that settler and that soldier, right? They're just Zionists...

DE



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by DeusEx
You have NO CLUE as to horror and barbaracy forced upon the Jews in the Holocaust. To describe the loss of electricity and potential re-occupation of Gaza as anything near the Holocaust shows just how little you understand of history- or just how anti-semetic you are.

DE


Thats how you look at it. I do not need things to go that far before I can consider it unjust and inhumane. 50 years of unjust treatment is enough for me to say enough is enough. Screw Anti-semitism as a shield for doing what they are doing. You can hide behind it if you'd like but their barbarism is still there. One day people will see through this sham you and others try to place on everyone and it will be more then just great Britain that will put these officials of the israeli government in their rightful places before the world courts for all to see and judge. I hope one day to see justice done to these criminals of humanity. The same way the Jews were served their justice by hunting down and capturing the criminals of nazi Germany I hope one day we can hunt down those responsible. These generals,military men and politicians touted as "heroes" responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people. They are nothing more then Murderers.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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It can be debate whether Isrealis have ever done some of the acts you just mentioned, however they are obviously doing what I have cited otherwise I would not have cited those examples.

I do not even care that they are Jewish or suffered a holocaust. Jewish people are not special because they suffered a holocaust. Native Americans suffered a much worse holocaust, where is your bleeding heart. There are people in Africa who have suffered much worse holocausts and targeted genocide, coming close to complete eradication in some cases. Is there a special label for them as well?

The Jewish people are just people to me, and the fact that they are Jewish means absolutley nothing, especially to many people who do not even have religious connection. That does not make me anti-semetic, it means I see no race/religion as being worthy of having special labels attached to them.

They are human, and for certain humans to follow in the footsteps of some of the worst minds of human history, as well as present, well that is not very good for us as a species.



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