Ok folks, We're always talking about American Black Projects and their capabilities, well here's a few Russian black projects.

I'd be interested to get your thoughts on them.
(try to keep your opinions under 10000 characters)
If you have other pictures of Russian black projects please feel free to post them here







[edit on 6-24-2006 by intelgurl]

[edit on 6-24-2006 by intelgurl]

Interesting photos intelgurl. All three appear to me to be bombers or possibly recon. Do you have any additional info on them? They look like they've been scanned from a newspaper or something.

I'd be particularly interested to know how old they are as all three look to me to be very dated designs. For example looking at stealth, the first and second concepts (I'm assuming thats what they are) both seem to utilise a variable geometry wing which is known to be very difficult to conceal from radar. Infact I can't see why the first design even has variable wings since it appears to have some sort of a lifting body.

Also the first and third designs have vertical stabilisers which are actually vertical. It was found (during the development of the SR-71 I think) that a very easy way of reducing RCS is to cant the stabilisers inward or outward. See F-22, F-35 etc. designs.

I'm interested to know everyone elses opinions on these designs.

Intelgurls bottom pic shows the Moskalyov DSB-LK. This was a flying wing strategic ‘missile carrier’ which was intended to have a max speed of mach 2.8 and remarkably advanced for when it was first proposed in 1957. Development continued until 1960. Here is a copy of an original schematic for it.

I'm not sure how 'black' these are, in the case of the latter probably not at all, but this seems as good a place as any for them.

First, Mikoyan 701. a 1980's scheme to produce a MiG 31 replacement long range interceptor. Proposed range of 4,350 miles when cruising at speeds between 1,430mph and 1,550mph at an altitude around 60,000ft. Subsonic range expected to be 6,835 miles. Length 98ft, span 62ft, Internal weapons carriage (unspecified type)



Secondly, one I am particularly seduced by the look of, the Sukhoi S.54 'Flanker-Lite'.

F-16 class fighter with weapon system based on that of the Su-37, ower from a single TVC AL-31 or AL-37 engine, service ceiling 59,000ft, range 510 miles on internal fuel at low level, 1,810 miles at height. Part constructed prototype abandoned in late 1990's and no longer an ongoing programme (shame). Carrier based version called S.56 proposed and offered to India in 1999. Not accepted.



[edit on 24-6-2006 by waynos]

Intelgurl - The second photo down could be a variant of the TU-404 aircraft.
I am not sure what the others are at this point but I will keep looking it up for a bit. With any luck someone here will come up with it.

The first picture in the thread is the Sukhoi T-4MS and the second one is the Mikoyan 301. If nobody beats me to it I will post more details after the extra time in Argentina v Mexico.

oops I just realized there are three photos. Sorry for my wrong listing there.

Right, footies over, here's the little bit I know about the first two projects



The Mikoyan 301 dates from the early 1990's ans was to be a hypersonic high altitude reconnaissance aircraft with possibilites in the bomber role.

It was envisaged as using a hybrid powerplant to attain speeds in excess of mach 3.5, above which they would work as ramjets, which sounds exactly like a scramjet engine.

The 301 was also envisaged as being made out of stainless steel, I hope the techniques for working in this material have moved on because a senior BAC engineer was once quoted as saying "the big lesson we learned from making the Bristol 188 out of stainless steel was how right we were to make the Concorde out of aluminium."

Russias financial woes killed this project off fairly conclusively although there might be a possibility of reviving it if the right conditions are met.





The Sukhoi T-4MS looks amazing for a 1970 design, it was intended to be a mach 3 strategic bomber and below is a diagram showing the accomodation for 24 Kh-15 missiles.

projected data; 133ft (min sweep) 82 ft (max sweep), length 135ft, speed 684mph (sea level) 1,989mph at height. bomb load (max) 99,000lb internally and externally.

Originally posted by waynos
Right, footies over, here's the little bit I know about the first two projects

The Mikoyan 301 dates from the early 1990's ans was to be a hypersonic high altitude reconnaissance aircraft with possibilites in the bomber role.

It was envisaged as using a hybrid powerplant to attain speeds in excess of mach 3.5, above which they would work as ramjets, which sounds exactly like a scramjet engine.

There are rumors that a follow-up concept craft to the 301 hypersonic recon vehicle is being worked on - .
Question is: If the US Gov't officially says they have no hypersonic recon aircraft aka Aurora, because they say there is no use for such what with satellites - why then do the Russians see such value in such an aircraft to be pursuing the technology?



[edit on 6-24-2006 by intelgurl]

Fascinating question Intelgurl, I suppose an obvious answer might be that the US is lying about not wanting, needing or having such an aircraft itself, but I have been very sceptical about Aurora's existance for several years now.

Is it likely that the Russians might pursue the 301, or a similar type, because they fear Aurora might exist after all? Or maybe they know something for sure where we are all guessing?

Originally posted by intelgurl
why then do the Russians see such value in such an aircraft to be pursuing the technology?

Doesn't the US have a dominance in the arena of spy satellites though?

Maybe what makes sense for the Russians is different for the Americans? Also, the Russians might figure that the satellites that they do have a vulnerable enough to attack that it'd be worthwhile having something like a 'backup'?

Well greebo, Intelgurl did start this thread specifically to feature Russian projects so its not polite that you should drag it off topic like that. In answer to your question though it looks like the wind tunnel model for the Boeing 2707-300.

edit, on second thoughts the wing shape doesn't look right so it should be the McDonnell Douglas AST.

[edit on 24-6-2006 by waynos]

I guess I would be remiss if I did not mention the Russian hypersonic "Ajax" concept.





Also, can someone identify this one?

there seems to be a post by Intelgurl missing??

[edit on 25-6-2006 by waynos]

There seems to be a post by Madgreebo missing????

Shattered OUT...

Hmm... quite a few of those look incredibly similar to our famed 'aurora spy plane'. Interesting... that 'top secret' aircraft has to be the most well-known and asked about project ever. So much so that you almost have to wonder if 'aurora' was intended as counter-inteligence.

On the other hand - if Russia was playing around with 'Aurora' type aircraft - it's safe to say that the U.S. probably was, too.

The thought of a plane being able to carry 24 KH-15 missiles is quite disturbing.... That added to the fact that the plane has a naturally low radar cross section (until the thermal 'bubble' it generates by flying so fast begins to give returns of its own) and 'supercruise' .... America would have been in a bad way had it ever gone full production and the cold war gone 'hot'.

Having conventional weapons drop on you from the heights and speeds that thing is suggested to have isn't a very pleasant concept, either.

Fairly interesting, though. Countries are so similar it's ridiculous to beleive we actually go to war with each other, sometimes.