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Behold a White Horse

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posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:02 AM
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Not in that sense, no. But I don't shirk my duty to be responsible for my example--for it is God's way, which He has written indelibly upon my heart. I understand that such a thing, in our present time, is for the singular purpose of providing example. It is always helpful to observe demonstration when striving to study the works of a Great Master (Christ). And He is my example and I have been conformed to that example, by God's will, not my own--and my ways are not the world's ways.


Tell us who your Great Master is? You say Christ, are you referring that your master is Jesus the Christ?

Or is your Lord and master Baal?




posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Or is your Lord and master Baal?


C'mon Sun Matrix. You seem to be an educated guy with a passionate interest. I'm sure you know it's not what people say, or more importantly, what you interpret them as saying - it's what's in their hearts. You honestly believe Queenannie is consorting/conspiring with some sort of evil? Or are you referring to the British Association for Applied Linguistics?



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by queenannie38
The fact is, it was not hateful—candid and straight to the point, no doubt—but I spoke the truth and I didn’t do it for any other reason other than you had a right to hear what my reasons were—since they were more about you and about God—and about others who would be served by God’s servants, than they were about my personal opinions.


I'm going to disagree. It looks more like your opinions than "the truth" and will demonstrate why it looks this way.


I already know you disagree, Saint4God--you've said that plainly enough. I didn't post that letter for the purpose of picking it apart in a debate. I stated my reasons, also plainly enough. The fact that you disagree with my straightforward communication about why I asked to be removed does not make it hateful in tone. Blunt, yes. I realize it probably offended you. But that's not because I meant to be insulting. I was just speaking the same truth that I often speak on this board related to that same issue.

The spirit doesn't get offended, remember?



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I already know you disagree, Saint4God--you've said that plainly enough.


Okie dokie.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I didn't post that letter for the purpose of picking it apart in a debate.


Since you posted it, I thought you wanted to discuss it. I did get to say some things I hadn't before, so at least you know my stance and response on every piece of it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I stated my reasons, also plainly enough.


I disagree that they are plain...or, if they are plain, that it's pretty malicious. I had hoped you could clarify some points if they were not intended to be with malice.


Originally posted by queenannie38
The fact that you disagree with my straightforward communication about why I asked to be removed does not make it hateful in tone.


You called me names that I am not. You said I was an unbeliever, blind, proud, and arrogant. You eluded to me consorting with Belail, that I am a hypocrite, I have mal-intentent, and that I hide in secrecy. Do you not agree that you've said these things? Or do you believe these things to be true? If you believe them to be true, I would like you to provide some substantiation to these claims of criminal activity within the faith. I do KNOW though, I have not called people names like this.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Blunt, yes. I realize it probably offended you. But that's not because I meant to be insulting. I was just speaking the same truth that I often speak on this board related to that same issue.


Funny, God never called me an unbeliever, consorting with Belial...etc. Who then is speaking the truth queenannie? Because God is telling me one thing, and you're saying quite another. This is why I question the source of your "truth".


Originally posted by queenannie38
The spirit doesn't get offended, remember?


How a person feels is not relevant to the truth. Yes, what you said hurt, I admit that. I sat there gaping, wondering why you'd say such things. Sadness is a feeling of the spirit. I'm reaching out to you and trying to restore whatever part of you made you feel unloved to say things to a group of friends who welcomed you in peace and open arms. That hospitality was returned with a slap in the face and a walk away. Is this an act of love? I hope you take a moment to think about that question before setting your fingers onto the keys.

You're saying that you're a believer and I am not. Why? If you believe in the word of God (the Bible) and I believe in the word of God, does that not both make us believers? If you follow Christ and I follow Christ, we are both Christians. Why then are you insisting on division, insult, name-calling and condemnation?

[edit on 20-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:04 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by queenannie38
I didn't post that letter for the purpose of picking it apart in a debate.


Since you posted it, I thought you wanted to discuss it. I did get to say some things I hadn't before, so at least you know my stance and response on every piece of it.

You could have done so via email, but you did not. You chose to bring it up publicly, accusing me of sending 'hatemail' and so my reasons for posting it, once again, were:


The fact is, it was not hateful—candid and straight to the point, no doubt—but I spoke the truth and I didn’t do it for any other reason other than you had a right to hear what my reasons were—since they were more about you and about God—and about others who would be served by God’s servants, than they were about my personal opinions. I didn’t actively choose to withdraw from your group, God convicted me that I had to—and the specifics thereof I relayed in my email. Not because I wanted to preach or self-justify, but because speaking the truth is always the right thing to do.





Originally posted by queenannie38
I stated my reasons, also plainly enough.


I disagree that they are plain...or, if they are plain, that it's pretty malicious. I had hoped you could clarify some points if they were not intended to be with malice.


Once again:


[color=#CC0000]I am not defending my self or my non-existent honor—what I seek to clarify and uphold is my representation as one of God’s loyal servants (slaves). What I say and do is a direct reflection on God since I speak of Him incessantly and endeavor to serve as an goodwill ambassador for the gospel of reconciliation on behalf of every human being—for each of whom Christ died.



Originally posted by queenannie38
The fact that you disagree with my straightforward communication about why I asked to be removed does not make it hateful in tone.


You called me names that I am not. You said I was an unbeliever, blind, proud, and arrogant. You eluded to me consorting with Belail, that I am a hypocrite, I have mal-intentent, and that I hide in secrecy. Do you not agree that you've said these things? Or do you believe these things to be true? If you believe them to be true, I would like you to provide some substantiation to these claims of criminal activity within the faith. I do KNOW though, I have not called people names like this.


Criminal activity? Get real! :shk:

I didn't single you out or call you any names, Saint4God--I addressed your group--considering some of those who are included, such as Sun Matrix--if the shoe fits, then it's one you are sharing with others. Consider your companions and what their activities and attitudes say about you, who choose to group yourself with such shining examples of 'Christ' followers. As far as secrecy goes, you totally misunderstood my statement. What i meant was, whether anyone knew I was in your prayer group or not, the fact that I was, and that it was pricking my conscience to be grouped with several whose posts on ATS are the antithesis of what I promote, it was a matter of integrity on my part to withdraw. You're the one who doesn't want anyone to know your real name--not me. So don't think I'm accusing you of hiding when you already posted the fact that you don't want to be known in reality.

Don't take it personal unless it is. And if it is, it is your determination, not mine.



Originally posted by queenannie38
Blunt, yes. I realize it probably offended you. But that's not because I meant to be insulting. I was just speaking the same truth that I often speak on this board related to that same issue.


Funny, God never called me an unbeliever, consorting with Belial...etc. Who then is speaking the truth queenannie? Because God is telling me one thing, and you're saying quite another. This is why I question the source of your "truth".


Question it all you want. It won't change what is truth and what isn't. As far as 'consorting' with Belial--I was quoting Paul and if you don't understand the true import of what Paul was saying, then I suggest you inform yourself. What God tells you, He tells you. What He tells me, He tells me. We are not sardines in the same can.



Originally posted by queenannie38
The spirit doesn't get offended, remember?


How a person feels is not relevant to the truth. Yes, what you said hurt, I admit that. I sat there gaping, wondering why you'd say such things. Sadness is a feeling of the spirit. I'm reaching out to you and trying to restore whatever part of you made you feel unloved to say things to a group of friends who welcomed you in peace and open arms. That hospitality was returned with a slap in the face and a walk away. Is this an act of love? I hope you take a moment to think about that question before setting your fingers onto the keys.


I think about everything to a great depth before I speak it or type it. I stand behind what I say. As far as friends welcoming me in peace? Right. The cold shoulder from Jake when I answered his thread---combined with the repeated asinine comments by your buddy Sun Matrix--I've had warmer welcomes from a group of 'enemies' on any given day. I didn't feel 'unloved'--how could I feel unloved when I never felt love from any of you guys in the first place? And, truthfully, it doesn't matter to me if you love me or not. I don't get my feelings hurt like you might think I do. I don't get offended except when God's name is blasphemed, and that offense is not to do with myself.


You're saying that you're a believer and I am not. Why? If you believe in the word of God (the Bible) and I believe in the word of God, does that not both make us believers? If you follow Christ and I follow Christ, we are both Christians. Why then are you insisting on division, insult, name-calling and condemnation?


Once again, I wasn't calling names. Just pointing out attitudes that are demonstrated--if you want to take it as 'calling names' then go ahead--I'm not into the fifth grade attitude of such a thing. As for being a 'christian'---christianity is already divided--it is a shambles of dissention and hypocrisy and no, I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN. Get that through your head. I AM, however, a child (son) of God and a devout slave to my GOD and CHRIST is my brother--I do not worship a man, I worship God only, in Spirit and Truth.

I believe that God can and will keep His every promise--the main one being that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED. You, however, feel the need to warn people of God's wrath and their imminent destruction in hell if they don't follow your example. THAT IS ERROR. I won't be a part of it--it is blasphemy of God's name, insisting that He has a bad end planned for mankind--HE DOES NOT. Christian doctrines are not aligned with scripture--and I know this without a doubt. God communicates with me in ways you cannot understand and this I also trust wholeheartedly. Yet you feel I must declare according to your standards of christianity in order to be an approved christian. Well, your approval means nothing to me. It is only God who I seek to please.

So be it. Think what you want. I care nothing about your opinion of me, only about my standing with God. And my heart has not convicted me that I'm in error for separating myself from what I consider a sham. That being christianity. The truth will be known and you can't say you had no warning.



posted on Jul, 20 2006 @ 08:14 PM
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once again....i see queenie is once again saying alot without saying anything at all.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
You could have done so via email, but you did not.


It's more difficult for me to access e-mail and feel it is indeed important to discuss. You didn't see it as a private matter blasting us so I'm confused as why you'd think it is now.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You chose to bring it up publicly,


You published the letter, I only talked about it. You certainly could have said, "it was not hatemail, sorry you see it that way" but I don't think you really feel that way anyhow. I think you're able to see it for what it is and in the responses I've given, being able to discern the effects of your statements.


Originally posted by queenannie38
accusing me of sending 'hatemail' and so my reasons for posting it, once again, were:


I feel it is hatemail. Everyone is now welcomed to read and decide whether they believe this to be true or not. You don't blast and name-call people you love. Certainly not!


Originally posted by queenannie38
The fact is, it was not hateful—candid and straight to the point, no doubt...
Queen, read you letter. This candy-coating stuff doesn't make anything taste better.


[color=#CC0000]I am not defending my self or my non-existent honor—what I seek...


Hello? Is anybody home? Oh, it's just a recording...



Originally posted by queenannie38
Criminal activity? Get real! :shk:


Yes, being an unbeliever after being exposed to the Truth, following Belial, being unfaithful (infidel), etc. are sins (aka Crimes) in our faith. Please don't tell me you didn't know this.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I didn't single you out or call you any names, Saint4God--


Yes, you did. Just because you called EVERYONE in the group a name does not mean you didn't call each and every one of us a name. Carpet-bombing, includsive and broadbanded judgemental name-calling.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I addressed your group--considering some of those who are included, such as Sun Matrix--if the shoe fits, then it's one you are sharing with others. Consider your companions and what their activities and attitudes say about you, who choose to group yourself with such shining examples of 'Christ' followers.


I'm very happy that many have stepped forward to pray together for love, hope and peace. I don't know why you have a problem with this. No malice or plan was enacted, so I wonder what it did to deserve an act of malice against it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
As far as secrecy goes, you totally misunderstood my statement. What i meant was, whether anyone knew I was in your prayer group or not, the fact that I was, and that it was pricking my conscience to be grouped with several whose posts on ATS are the antithesis of what I promote, it was a matter of integrity on my part to withdraw.


In that case, each of us is "secret" because we don't talk about our personal lives here. You're making a distinction between the prayer group being "secret" whereas ATS is not. The reason for this divisiveness is unknown to me. I consider you a very intelligent and knowledgeable person, surely you choose your words carefully.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You're the one who doesn't want anyone to know your real name--not me.


I'll be candid. I don't like bringing up irrelevant issues into discussions here because it sparks prejudice and false assumptions. For example, if we're having a Pro-Life/Pro-Choice discussion, the fact that I'm "Anthony" is irrelevant. The subject at hand is the morality of the situation for all human-kind. IF people held no prejudice nor false assumptions, I could care less. Really.


Originally posted by queenannie38
So don't think I'm accusing you of hiding when you already posted the fact that you don't want to be known in reality.


I'm not hard to find, seriously. There are techniques both by internet search and IP pinging that will give you everything except for my credit card number
. I don't want to make these discussions personal because I feel people are a lot more open to these kinds of discussion when they get to be objective or not personally involved. Wanna get personal queen? Let's do it. Step one, I don't believe you are a queen, sorry. So annie (if indeed that is your real name), tell me about yourself.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Don't take it personal unless it is. And if it is, it is your determination, not mine.


I didn't take it personal which is why I deleted your e-mail instead of responding. BUT, when you use someone's real name, there's no mistake who you're directing your comments to personally.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Question it all you want. It won't change what is truth and what isn't.


Duh.


Originally posted by queenannie38
As far as 'consorting' with Belial--I was quoting Paul and if you don't understand the true import of what Paul was saying, then I suggest you inform yourself. What God tells you, He tells you. What He tells me, He tells me. We are not sardines in the same can.


If you follow Christ and I follow Christ indeed we are. One just likes to throw punches for some unknown reason.


Originally posted by queenannie38
The spirit doesn't get offended, remember?



Originally posted by queenannie38
I think about everything to a great depth before I speak it or type it.


Good! Glad to hear there is at least thought and not a hasty set of hands.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I stand behind what I say. As far as friends welcoming me in peace? Right. The cold shoulder from Jake when I answered his thread---


I see, so you were offended by Jake not responding? I thought the spirit didn't get offended. At least it explains some of the lashing out.


Originally posted by queenannie38
combined with the repeated asinine comments by your buddy Sun Matrix--


Sun's comment was already addressed. I don't know why Sun thinks you're a follower of Baal and I disagree that you are. If I hadn't been spending so many hours responding in our banter, I'd have more of an opportunity to ask Sun why this comes to mind. Sun isn't perfect, neither am I, nor Jake, nor you. Hopefully that Biblical concept is clear.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I've had warmer welcomes from a group of 'enemies' on any given day.


You have some very hospitable 'enemies' then and am relieved to hear you'll never come to any harm in that case.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I didn't feel 'unloved'--how could I feel unloved when I never felt love from any of you guys in the first place?


This is what we did. Whenever anyone had a praise or concern, we e-mailed the group. We then prayed for that concern or thanked God for that blessed on our own. If there's a disconnect between prayer and love, I hope God can help you bridge the gap between the two. Specifically what love did you want to feel? And, why didn't you bring it up before?


Originally posted by queenannie38
And, truthfully, it doesn't matter to me if you love me or not.


The truth is we do love you and is the exact reason why we're having this discussion. I cannot let you go under a false impression that we didn't care. We may have been in err giving you that impression, so I'm doing my best to rectify that. Jake, and others have written to me with concern for you. Their tone was not "get queenannie!", it was "what on earth happened? and how can we fix this?". Thanks to one in that fellowship, I was able to meet you here and have this discussion. Worst case scenario, you would have at least heard that yes, we do love you. I am sorry to hear though that it doesn't matter to you. It does matter to us.


[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]

[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]

[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I don't get my feelings hurt like you might think I do. I don't get offended except when God's name is blasphemed, and that offense is not to do with myself.


I think that not only do you have feelings, but you've demonstrated that they can get hurt.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Once again, I wasn't calling names. Just pointing out attitudes that are demonstrated--if you want to take it as 'calling names' then go ahead--I'm not into the fifth grade attitude of such a thing.


It looks to me like pride prevents you from an apology.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I believe that God can and will keep His every promise--the main one being that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED


This is not what the God (in the Bible) said...and perhaps it's best we parted ways then. Thank you for clarifying, I leave you on the separate path and believe that to be the right course of action now. I would appreciate though not quoting the Bible or the contents thereof since you're choosing to pick which parts to keep and which parts to throw away. I'm sure that this won't happen but my request has been made. Thank you for these discussions and God bless.


[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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I have a long-standing policy of not getting between a queen and a saint. Dangerous ground, to be sure. So why am I bothering? I have no idea, but I'm going to jump in anyway.

I read the email in annie's post. "Hate mail"? Wow, if that's hate mail, you wouldn't want to spend a day in my world. You've certainly go to be a little tougher than that. Of course, you guys are a lot closer to the action than I am. I haven't been "called". I haven't been poked, nudged, whispered to, or nodded at. So I'll defer to your delving into the details.

But I do read, and study, certainly not as much as any of you do, and although I won't say I agree with anyone 100%, I'm confident (faith?) that annie's perspective is as accurate as any I've seen espoused on any open forum.

But that's really irrelevant. We know what the meat is, don't we? It's the love thing. And I'm not very good at it. There are few days that go by where I wouldn't like to choke the snot out of somebody I've encountered. But I really hope we don't turn the faith, spirituality & theology forum into Belfast.

Live and let live.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by yeahright
I have a long-standing policy of not getting between a queen and a saint. Dangerous ground, to be sure. So why am I bothering? I have no idea, but I'm going to jump in anyway.


You're certainly welcomed to and hope you don't feel any danger from me. I have no intentions on hurting anyone.


Originally posted by yeahright
I read the email in annie's post. "Hate mail"? Wow, if that's hate mail, you wouldn't want to spend a day in my world.


Physically there's no threat. Spiritually, especially when you've brought someone in as a sister, spiritually it is very saddening. I would have rather been slapped hard in the face than to be called these false things.


Originally posted by yeahright
You've certainly go to be a little tougher than that. Of course, you guys are a lot closer to the action than I am. I haven't been "called". I haven't been poked, nudged, whispered to, or nodded at. So I'll defer to your delving into the details.

But I do read, and study, certainly not as much as any of you do, and although I won't say I agree with anyone 100%, I'm confident (faith?) that annie's perspective is as accurate as any I've seen espoused on any open forum.


I agree that when she quotes the Word, it is Word and the Word is true. I have issue with how she treats those who believe in the Word and any changes she seems to be making to the Word.


Originally posted by yeahright
But that's really irrelevant. We know what the meat is, don't we? It's the love thing. And I'm not very good at it.


Love is indeed the core ("God is love" & Paul's letter to the Corinthians) and yes, I think we all need work on it.


Originally posted by yeahright
There are few days that go by where I wouldn't like to choke the snot out of somebody I've encountered.


I feel that annie wants to "choke the snot out" out of me, but I know not why. One thing I was trying to discover in this dialogue was this, though seems that goal has gone unaccomplished for now. Despite what she says, there's a lot of hurt going on and I don't know what caused it other than perhaps a feeling of neglect. If that's the case, it probably is true. I did not, in the prayer group, write individual e-mails to each person on the distribution to find out how they're doing on a daily basis. Perhaps I should. That's really hard because there are a lot of red flags (like what she's going through now) going on in my life, my e-mail access is limited and I fall short of taking a deeper personal interest in individuals in the prayer group. Let me then say to annie, I am sorry I did not pay closer attention to you and the things going on in your life right now.


Originally posted by yeahright
But I really hope we don't turn the faith, spirituality & theology forum into Belfast.

Live and let live.


It's not a war, I mean no ill-will to anyone and annie has said the same. No guns, no violence. Emotions perhaps, discussion absolutely, for both are good tools to dig in and find out the truth.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

I agree that when she quotes the Word, it is Word and the Word is true. I have issue with how she treats those who believe in the Word and any changes she seems to be making to the Word.


Yep. And therein lies the problem. And that's usually where it is. Hermeneutics is certainly not my field of expertise. But when you start discussing scripture from particular perspectives that originate from a deeply held personal conviction, and you throw in "...changes she seems to be making to the Word" things are going to get messy. From your perspective, she seems to be making changes. Apparently, from her perspective (and I'm not speaking for her, just observing) you seem to be making changes.


I feel that annie wants to "choke the snot out" out of me, but I know not why.


Well, that's how you feel, so your feelings are yours. But I believe you've misinterpreted (there's that issue again) her intent. Again, not speaking for her, just observing.

I think we all have a tendency to over complicate things, misinterpret, assume. And that's a shame, but it's what we are. I wish you the best.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 11:55 AM
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I'm confident (faith?) that annie's perspective is as accurate as any I've seen espoused on any open forum.


Since you have read so many of her posts, would you sum in your own words exactly what you think Annie believes in?

What religion if any does she follow and what are her goals?



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
It looks to me like pride prevents you from an apology.


An apology for what? For speaking my mind? Obeying the voice of the LORD?



Originally posted by queenannie38
I believe that God can and will keep His every promise--the main one being that ALL MEN WILL BE SAVED


This is not what the God (in the Bible) said


I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right. Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
(Isaiah 45:19-25)

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(1 Timothy 2:3-6)

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:13-15)

It plainly says GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN.


...and perhaps it's best we parted ways then.

You're a little behind on that idea--I don't think our way was ever the same. You follow men's doctrines, I follow God's voice.


Thank you for clarifying, I leave you on the separate path and believe that to be the right course of action now. I would appreciate though not quoting the Bible or the contents thereof since you're choosing to pick which parts to keep and which parts to throw away.

That is not your perogative--to ask me not to quote the bible. Don't take so much upon yourself.


I'm sure that this won't happen but my request has been made. Thank you for these discussions and God bless.

I don't throw out any part of the bible. I study the bible almost all day, every day--for several years this has been my life. Besides doing what I need to do for my mom, whom I live with, who is 80 years old and a widow. I'm 37 years old and not bad looking at all. I could probably be out living it up in the world, with nary a care about life or death or anything. But God set me to do other things and I'm not one to ignore His direction. The bible seems to be sending two different messages, perhaps--since you don't believe the plain spoken parts that say YES all men will be saved--and instead choose the parables and prophetic imagery as proof of hell. But if you haven't experienced visions of the same sort, then I guess it's only natural. But I am constantly accused by your buddies of 'twisting scripture'--when, in fact, I present it plain and straightforward--but since it doesn't agree with your chosen christian doctrines, I'm accused of being a liar, a follower of baal (because of my avatar, BTW), and of twisting scriptures--leading innocent sinners straight to an eternity in hell. The bible and the truth are far deeper than any theologian ever delves--it is an uncomfortable depth for many because it equalizes all men in God's eyes and declares NO ONE is SPECIAL. That hurts the pride of christians who thrive on the idea they are 'God's elect.' But only God elects--it is His choosing, not man's, and it isn't for the purpose of bestowing favor on the elect--it's more like compulsory draft into an army whose purpose is saving the WHOLE WORLD sans none. It is not a life of privilege or self-righteousness--it is rather a total sacrifice of one's personal life and personal hopes and dreams--no longer is what I want first in line--first God, then my mom, then my loved ones, then me. And with the time available in the day--'me' is often omitted altogether.

So--that's a little about me, Saint4God.

As far as what the bible says:

Therefore as by the offence of one upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one upon all men unto justification of life.
(Romans 5:18)

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, all things: to whom glory for ever. Amen.
(Romans 11:32-36)

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:22)

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
(2 Corinthians 5:18-19)

For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
(Philippians 3:20-21)

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
(Colossians 1:20-21)

This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
(1 Timothy 4:9-10)



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by yeahright

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Or is your Lord and master Baal?


C'mon Sun Matrix. You seem to be an educated guy with a passionate interest. I'm sure you know it's not what people say, or more importantly, what you interpret them as saying - it's what's in their hearts. You honestly believe Queenannie is consorting/conspiring with some sort of evil? Or are you referring to the British Association for Applied Linguistics?




That's a good one--never heard of 'BAAL'




posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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No, I think I'll respectfully decline to speak directly for someone else. She's written extensively and her words are there for anyone to read and digest. I've read them and see no malice in them, but much of it resonates with me because it's in accordance with what I believe. You apparently believe she has an agenda that is other than positive. You and I disagree.

I don't think you have an evil agenda either. I just think you have a different perspective, with which I happen to disagree, at least when it comes to annie.

I don't want to get into a "she said this but that means that" discussion. It says what it says and it is what it is.

And best of luck to you, as well.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I agree that when she quotes the Word, it is Word and the Word is true. I have issue with how she treats those who believe in the Word and any changes she seems to be making to the Word.

I make no changes.


I feel that annie wants to "choke the snot out" out of me, but I know not why. One thing I was trying to discover in this dialogue was this, though seems that goal has gone unaccomplished for now. Despite what she says, there's a lot of hurt going on and I don't know what caused it other than perhaps a feeling of neglect.

No, I do not want to 'choke the snot' out of you. What for? Don't flatter yourself.

I am not angry, hurt, nor do I feel neglected. Your imagination runs amok.


If that's the case, it probably is true. I did not, in the prayer group, write individual e-mails to each person on the distribution to find out how they're doing on a daily basis. Perhaps I should.


Trust me, I don't require such attention, nor do I have time for it. I'm in no need of being coddled or pampered. I'm not like most people. I know you can't understand that, nor do I expect you to. So just give it a rest.

BTW

My real name is:

Lucretia Ann Myers Campos Lilly
and my birthday is October 8, 1968 and I was born in Tuscon Arizona.

This is what I look like:



I live at 1108 West Bonbright in Carlsbad New Mexico.
My sprint cell phone is 505 302 1209
But right now it's not in service--no money to pay the bill until later today.

But, hey--call me later on--come by my house, unannounced, even--you can get directions from Google Maps.
I live in the little apartment off the garage, if there is a maroon 88 Camaro parked in the driveway or on the street, I'm home~! Don't worry about the yellow lab, her name is Maggie and she might lick you to death but she won't bite.

Come see what I'm all about--don't worry, it's not a trap. If you do come visit, please plan on staying for supper. I'm a pretty good cook and my mom is always glad to have company. (me, too) We don't even have to talk about God-things, if you don't want to. I am open to any discussion, it's all good to me--just visiting with people is very nice and enjoyable.


But don't worry, either, if you decide not to come see me--I won't be hurt or offended. I'm just offering hospitality--to you--and whomever.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:25 PM
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Thanks, yeahright, for your grounding statements in this thread. As well as your joke, too, which I really got a good laugh out of. Thanks again.

This thread is eroding quickly into some kind of futile religious debate, and I've participated far past my personally set standards concerning such things. For that reason, I've said my final say regarding the things Saint4God is addressing. His thoughts are his, and I certainly can't change them. Nor do I want to. I do, however, object to having my 'good spoken evil of,' but I've done all I can do in that area, as well.

God's peace to all of us for His promised end is certain. Glory to HIM and HIM alone because He is love and that love benefits us all.



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:36 PM
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So far I've seen queenannie say something about being a woman (by the way, our prayer group contains both women and men) and feeling neglected by Jake in her posts. Along with her feelings towards Sun, I think this is the crux of the issue. But, moving on to the meat of the word. I will use the same quotes she had to point out a very important, overlooked issue:



Originally posted by queenannie38
Look unto me, and be ye saved,


By looking unto Him, you will be saved. Not by turning away to false gods as previously mentioned in this passage.


Originally posted by queenannie38
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


By His will. If you are against His will and disallow Him to do so, then salvation is not possible.


Originally posted by queenannie38
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
(1 Timothy 2:3-6)


He did pay the random for any/all who come to Him to be saved. There are many, many quotes you're leaving out here annie, I'll get to them momentarily. This taking things out of context one line at a time and ignoring other parts is exactly what I'm talking about.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(1 Corinthians 3:13-15)


Do you see that word "IF"? Are you saying this verse somehow cancels out this one?:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:11.


Originally posted by queenannie38
It plainly says GOD IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN.


What about these annie? You're missing some:

"I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 8:11

"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear." - Matthew 13:40-43

"When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 13:48-50

"Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'

"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.

"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." Matthew 22:1-14

"For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'" - Matthew 25:29-30

"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'

"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God." - Luke 13:27-29

Go ahead and quote your one-liners away from their application, there are plenty of CHAPTERS where Christ speaks of this.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 12:47 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
If you do come visit, please plan on staying for supper. I'm a pretty good cook and my mom is always glad to have company. (me, too) We don't even have to talk about God-things, if you don't want to. I am open to any discussion, it's all good to me--just visiting with people is very nice and enjoyable.


NOW you want to have dinner with me? After telling me to go away and that I'm an infidel, unbeliever, server of Belial. Where is the Bible verse you hid behind before when I simply wanted to pray with you?


Originally posted by queenannie38
But don't worry, either, if you decide not to come see me--I won't be hurt or offended. I'm just offering hospitality--to you--and whomever.


Thank you and it is appreciated. I would equally like to find out in person how you've come to this kind of reaction towards me, but I just came back from the trip to England and am short both on money and time away from work at the moment. I'll leave it as an open invitation though if you still welcome me, as it is a very generous offer. I did wish though you didn't post your personal information here on ATS because there are people in the world who do wish to do others harm. Now I'm concerned about your safety and hope a moderator deletes it. You may not be concerned about you, but I'm sure your family and friends are. I'm not going to write it down. If you really want me to have it some day when we are on agreeably friendly terms, you know how to reach me already.

[edit on 21-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 21 2006 @ 01:14 PM
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I'm just gonna say, you might want to reflect on the whole "lake of fire" thing. I don't think it's what you think it is. "...but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

Here's the difference as I see it. Annie believes it's God's will that everyone be saved, and it's a little (ahem) presumptuous to think anyone's personal "will" can thwart God's purpose. I mean, God is a loving God whose love surpasses any human capability of understanding and he wants us all to be saved. Or not.

Many view as blasphemous any statement suggesting God can't, or won't, do what he says. I think scripture says it's his will that we all be saved. All. Eventually. No matter what. Apparently, your interpretation leads you to believe otherwise.

I believe the lake of fire is a chastisement, and not a place of perpetual torment. I think we'll all ultimately be more than fine. But it'll get ugly before that happens.

Good luck.

[Edit to add] There's dinner and then there's praying. I don't know about you, but I'll sit down with just about anybody if they're serving pork chops.

[edit on 7/21/2006 by yeahright]



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