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Behold a White Horse

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posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 07:32 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
How did you come across this "deadline" and what exactly will happen then?


It was told to me. You can ask about it, yourself--it's not for me to tell you since you scorn my words.


Belial or queenannie's way? I'm surprised one can quote scripture and yet use themselves as the only option besides Belial. I submit there is God's way. Sorry queenannie, not going to be worshiping you nor your way.


Who said I wanted or expected to be worshipped, Anthony? I did not. Because I do not.

Why is it that you think my way is not God's way? Or rather, I should say, God's way is not my way? Why is it that you think I cannot know God and that He has nothing planned to do with me? Are you that arrogant with your 'christian' elitism that you think you have a monopoly on God? Do you think that it is a personal thing, with God? Do you believe that we pick Him or do you understand that He is the one that chooses and prepares--plans and executes? He doesn't choose anyone based on their merits--compared to His righteousness, no other merits exist--in any man! His strength is made manifest in weakness--His perfection is demonstrated most gloriously in imperfection!



Originally posted by queenannie38
Last time, the Belials won, but not for forever--the ark was the saving Grace of mankind.


I thought it was God's grace by which we were saved, not mankind's grace. Mankind's "grace" is why there was a flood in the first place.

Did I say 'by man's grace?' NO. I said the saving (grace) of mankind. OF. That means mankind was saved by Grace--God given grace. You're getting all mixed up with prepositions in your eagerness to feel empowered to judge me. :shk: Slow down and read my words, if you're going to read them. Otherwise, don't bother.



Originally posted by queenannie38
But no one has built a boat this time and the waters are rising faster than you think....

This time, MY SIDE is going to win--and that means there will be one side, in the end, no one left out, even the Belials, because Belial is my brother, too....

But Belial isn't the only PRINCE and our Father is the KING of KINGS.


YOUR side? And yet you claim our Father as King of Kings. Wouldn't it be your Father's side then? I hope by "Father" you mean God. If this is the case, then get used to me because it is our side, sister.


Yes, MY SIDE is GOD's SIDE. Why can't I claim it as my side if it, indeed, it is? A family is united, is it not? Therefore what is wrong with what I said?

And why does it bother you so? Why are you so eager to shred my statements?

I don't think you are on 'my side.' You sure don't show it with this particular post. Your energy is glaring in it's character--I know exactly from what thoughts your words arise from.

My allegiance to God isn't in question--it is certain--because it is not anything I did on my own--God did it--all of it. I had no choice in the matter but yet I wouldn't have chosen otherwise--although, be aware that I would not ever have had the power to make it certain as He does.

Your eagerness to condemn and judge is not in line with His will, and I have no reason to 'get used to it,' because it is not the way He's taught me to be.


It is a very small thing to me that I should be examined by you or by any human court.
In fact, I don't even examine myself. For my conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who examines me.

Therefore, stop judging before the proper time, before the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the motives of our hearts.

Then each person will receive his praise from God. (..) For who makes you superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?
~1 Corinthians 4:3-7


What I have, I was given, by miraculous grace--if it were just me, I'd be nothing but a dust-eating worm. If God took His spirit away from me, I'd certainly be a dust-eating worm--guaranteed. This I know, without a shred of doubt.




posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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I read many posts here on ATS/BTS, though I don't bother to respond to such nonesence.

Of all the "Christian" Postings I see on the ATS/BTS board Queenannie
Is one of the VERY FEW That actually has a Grasp on Christianity, and the higher plains. Only fools are unable to see her as enlightend She not only knows the words, but actually knows what the words mean unlike the majority of those able to regurgitate them. I Don't always agree with her, however those few points, times, and items are insignificant.

I find many things currious, for as we enter into Rev 9:15 (Yes the Seventh Angel of Rev-10 is present and waiting). Christians are divided and bickering among themselves, rather than showing unity and love. Funny (sic) Christians Attack and maintain that they are Christians.

In Every religion, the followers try to follow the footsteps of their Icon, All except Christianity, and in Christianity the messanger is far more important than his message - rather disapointing.

How is it that Only those perceived as Cults are banging on doors trying to spead the "Good News"? And what a great example you set for those looking toward you for guidance and/or any enlightenment. Satan Will thank you for costing Souls through your hate, arrogance, and disinformation. Those of you that use High and Mighty names Show you to be a Stiffnecked people, proud, pompous and selfrightious. For even though you proclain Christianity - you seem to forget to prefix it with Anti-

It's a good thing that It's not up to me to judge - for better than 99.99% of the Christian sect would be found quite lacking. (see above if you don't know why).

For How can one Study and show thyself while attacking?
How can you clain to be enlightened when your eyes and minds are closed?
It is good to question Ideas and concepts, it is wrong to attack them if they don't agree with your own ideals. Question, discuss, and learn.

Ladies and Gentelmen, That is Crap.

The majority of Christians show themselves to be small minded cowards Attacking other opinions rather than seeking any enlightenment. They ridicule those who share any belief Other than their own. They Do all of this in the name of a man who stood for peace, and Beleive that their inequities are "covered by his blood". Your sins are ONLY Covered if you are repetant - That means that you Make a Sincere heart felt effort Not to commit that sin again. (Or Else you are not Forgiven the recurring sin).

Based upon the Examples of chiristianity I see all over - I wouldn't join the Club.
I wish to serve God - not Appease the AntiChrist. I do wish I could say that (anti-)Christianity is limited to ATS/BTS but I have seen and experienced it all over the net. This MUST STOP!

As I close, let me pose...
If you can "Save" Satan, won't everyone become saved in the process?
(To say that Satan can't be saved, is to limit the power of God).

I hope I have given words for reflection. Even though I will likely be baited, it is unlikely that I will return to respond soon.

---
BTW Anne;
Old Art Covers Ancient Words in a New Light.
(Sorry for being cryptic - You will come to understand when the time is right).



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 10:26 PM
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Saint4God~
What I posted previously as 'my way?' Did none of it sound familiar to you, at all?

LOVE one another without JUDGMENT...

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34)

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. (Luke 6:35-36)

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling block or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. (Romans 14:13)

With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; (Ephesians 4:2)

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. (1 John 4:10-11)

FORGIVE ALL THINGS...

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matthew 6:14-15)

Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. (Matthew 18:21-22)

Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him. (Luke 17:3-4)

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that smites thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that takes away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also. Give to every man that asks of thee; and of him that takes away thy goods ask them not again. (Luke 6:27-30)

TRUST GOOD and ESCHEW EVIL....

Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. (1 Peter 3:9-11)

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)

For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. (2 Timothy 1:12)

Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. (Romans 12:9)

MAKE LOVE NOT WAR...
NO MORE GUNS....
PICK up your PLOWS and HOES.....


And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever. (Micah 4:3-5)

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD. (Isaiah 2:2-5)


FEED those who are HUNGRY....

Which executes judgment for the oppressed: which gives food to the hungry. The LORD loosed the prisoners: (Psalms 146:7)

If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: (Proverbs 25:21)

But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right (..)hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; (Ezekiel 18:5-7)

But whoso hath this world's good, and sees his brother have need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. (1 John 3:17-18)

CARE FOR the WIDOWS and the ORPHANS....

But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy olive yard. (Exodus 23:11)

And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reaps, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 23:22)

Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. (Exodus 22:22)

And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates. (Deuteronomy 16:14)

The LORD preserves the strangers; he relieves the fatherless and widow: but the way of the wicked he turns upside down. (Psalms 146:9)

PUT your BROTHER BEFORE your SELF....

Be kindly affectionate one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
(Romans 12:10)

And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world stands, lest I make my brother to offend. (1 Corinthians 8:11-13)

That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. (1 Thessalonians 4:6)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loves not his brother abides in death. Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. (1 John 3:14-16)



posted on Jul, 18 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
My story is far too long to post in its entirety--it's not something I need to tell to anyone.

For some of us lost sheep, a long personal story may be just what we need. It is of no worry what others say of it, so for the sake of some of us seeking and lost, please do tell. Nothing wrong with shining a little light on another's path instead of keeping it only lit on yours (I don't mean that in a bad way).



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 12:09 AM
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Saint4God~What I posted previously as 'my way?' Did none of it sound familiar to you, at all?


Your words are familiar to me. A ravenous wolf posing as an angel of light.

The accuser of the brothern



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
It was told to me. You can ask about it, yourself--it's not for me to tell you since you scorn my words.


I am asking about it. Shall I approach God with it? I can though I know it hasn't been provided or deemed necessary for me so far. I do not mean to scorn you in any way, as Paul says, "Test everthing" because truth prevails above you, above me, above all. If I am wrong, it will fail testing, I know that. Testing therefore is encouraged. I wish to test what you're saying to validate truths.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Who said I wanted or expected to be worshipped, Anthony? I did not. Because I do not.


Good, I'm glad we're being very clear then. It did not sound this way in the way you'd stated it. I see you'd like to get very person using my real name that only a few I had trusted with. I see that I was wrong to have trusted because it was never previously broadcasted by myself on any thread, rather solely in U2U for those I felt comfortable sharing with. No matter. I mean nothing personal against you, but I will challenge what you say. I don't know you personally. I have great confidence in daily life that you are a kind, compassionate person who loves their friends, family and most likely all those you come into interaction with. I only ask that you continue to shed that love here and show a little more respect for the wishes of others to remain anonymous if they're more comfortable speaking by doing so.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Why is it that you think my way is not God's way?


See quoted statement. It stated their was Belial's way and YOUR way. God was not mentioned, hence the concern.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Or rather, I should say, God's way is not my way?


God does not conform Himself to us, we need to conform to Him. It's a recurring theme Biblically.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Why is it that you think I cannot know God and that He has nothing planned to do with me?


I do not think this and apologize that somehow you got this impression to ask this question. I've seen some things He has done with you already so I have no doubt He has even more plans for you...just as He has done things with me and has plans for me.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Are you that arrogant with your 'christian' elitism that you think you have a monopoly on God?


No. I do know that Christ said, "No one comes to the father except through me". So Christ is the key component to reaching God.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Do you think that it is a personal thing, with God?


Very personal, yes. But not soley personal, if that makes sense.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Do you believe that we pick Him or do you understand that He is the one that chooses and prepares--plans and executes?


I do understand that He is the one that chooses and prepares--plans and executes. I think some people can choose him, but I was not one of them. I had to be pulled out of the fire by Him to understand. I was not a very bright individual. I still carry many of those same flaws.


Originally posted by queenannie38
He doesn't choose anyone based on their merits--compared to His righteousness, no other merits exist--in any man!


Agreed.


Originally posted by queenannie38
His strength is made manifest in weakness--His perfection is demonstrated most gloriously in imperfection!


I believe I understand what's being said here if you mean we're able to see perfection because He is perfect. I'm not sure I'm clear otherwise.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Last time, the Belials won, but not for forever--the ark was the saving Grace of mankind.



Originally posted by queenannie38
Did I say 'by man's grace?' NO. I said the saving (grace) of mankind. OF. That means mankind was saved by Grace--God given grace. You're getting all mixed up with prepositions in your eagerness to feel empowered to judge me. :shk: Slow down and read my words, if you're going to read them. Otherwise, don't bother.


This was unclear in your statement I think:


Originally posted by queenannie38
Last time, the Belials won, but not for forever--the ark was the saving Grace of mankind.


These two look like they're saying two different things. This second statement seems to say the saving grace was of/from mankind. Your first statement clarifies with saying God given grace...which now makes sense. I'm asking about these things because they seem unclear. I can only find out what you mean by digging in and finding out. You've made me so curious with your words that I wanted to do so to see what indeed it the message you're giving.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Yes, MY SIDE is GOD's SIDE. Why can't I claim it as my side if it, indeed, it is? A family is united, is it not? Therefore what is wrong with what I said?


Thank you for this clarification. Again, the first time you'd said it sound like you were the owner of this side. Indeed, God is the owner of his side, we're only a speck within it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
And why does it bother you so? Why are you so eager to shred my statements?


I'll be candid. It sounds very ego-centric and yet you're using the word of God in your statements. If they did not sound ego-centric and used the word of God, I'd have no issue. If they were ego-centric and did not use the word of God, I'd have no issue. Hopefully this perspective is making sense queen, I want the best for both of us.

I noticed you were quick to sever ties with me and other Christians on ATS with what I can only describe as "hate-mail" to my personal e-mail address lashing out against us. Indeed it did make me take notice and become curious as to why you felt this way, why you want division among believer, and what exactly is the message you're looking to send.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I don't think you are on 'my side.'


I agree that you don't think I am on your (our) side.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You sure don't show it with this particular post.


Perhaps, but I challenge not out of hate, but out of love. If I hated or did not care, I would have no grievances.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Your energy is glaring in it's character--


I'm sure it is seen as high and intense, which it is, but again, not out of hate or anger.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I know exactly from what thoughts your words arise from.


Do tell.


Originally posted by queenannie38
My allegiance to God isn't in question--it is certain--because it is not anything I did on my own--God did it--all of it. I had no choice in the matter but yet I wouldn't have chosen otherwise--although, be aware that I would not ever have had the power to make it certain as He does.





Originally posted by queenannie38
Your eagerness to condemn and judge


I'm exploring your thoughts asking you to share and challenging things to make sure they are true. I don't know you therefore cannot judge you nor condemn you...nor would I wish to.


Originally posted by queenannie38
is not in line with His will, and I have no reason to 'get used to it,' because it is not the way He's taught me to be.


Do you really think I'm here on my own accord? This introvert who has no pervious will or desire to get involved in the affairs of other people has just suddenly decided to mettle in the thoughts and believe of others for some personal gain? Perhaps if you did know me personally then you'll know what indeed is my driver. It is as I state it here.


Originally posted by queenannie38 It is a very small thing to me that I should be examined by you or by any human court.


I'm not forcing you to do anything. In fairness, you have examined me by your court and found me "unworthy(?)" of your cooperation in a very important mission. Yes, I will question this and sorry if it's taken personally, that is not the intent. I have no rulings, no way to carry out any rewards or punishment so I do not know why you're thinking I'm prosecuting you for anything.


Originally posted by queenannie38
In fact, I don't even examine myself.


It can be helpful in the context of, "Am I who God wants me to be?". Just my feeling on it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
For my conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who examines me.


Indeed, as He does for all of us.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Therefore, stop judging before the proper time, before the Lord comes, for he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the motives of our hearts.


I don't know where you're getting this impression that I'm judging you. Help me to see it so that should I be guilty of it so I can stop. Be a friend, not one who cuts someone off if they are in err.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Then each person will receive his praise from God. (..) For who makes you superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not receive it?
~1 Corinthians 4:3-7


Paul has got some great words here. *nods* Are you saying that I think I'm superior? If so, where have I said or implied this?


Originally posted by queenannie38
What I have, I was given, by miraculous grace--if it were just me, I'd be nothing but a dust-eating worm. If God took His spirit away from me, I'd certainly be a dust-eating worm--guaranteed. This I know, without a shred of doubt.


And yet you feel you and I are in different boats? How so?



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Saint4God~
What I posted previously as 'my way?' Did none of it sound familiar to you, at all?


Indeed it did sound familiar which is why I did not question the things you'd posted in what "my way" means. I questioned your implied ownership of "my way" (I think your last post clarified that greatly). It sounded like a call to follow you, and that's not what we as believers are called to do. We're called to follow God and HIS way. Do you want to convince a person to follow "your way"? Is it you who created and wrote these things? It was God's practices you and I use when we do so. Is it you who will fulfill these practices? Nay, it was Christ who did fulfill this law. This is my issue, not the scripture. We could be arguing semantics, which is why I'm digging in to get a better scope of exactly what you're saying. No judgement, just clarification.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I am asking about it. Shall I approach God with it? I can though I know it hasn't been provided or deemed necessary for me so far.

I know this; and you may certainly approach God with whatever you please.
I have a lot of things I must tell *from the rooftops* in coming days. I'm sure you'll be well within earshot for most of it. That doesn't mean you will 'hear' me, though; I hope you do, but it's not up to me if your ears will hear. That's between you and God.

…as Paul says, "Test everthing"
(..)
I wish to test what you're saying to validate truths.

I understand that; and well you should. But your attitude was of a challenging tone on a human level, not gentle and respectful, and you made several inferences/assumptions about my statements that demonstrate such. See below for an example:

It did not sound this way in the way you'd stated it.

If it didn't sound that way, then why the statement of:
Sorry queenannie, not going to be worshiping you nor your way.
? This was blatantly scornful and betrayed your tendency; perhaps automatic, but still, to assume that I do not follow the way in which God has directed me. Your statement says: There is belial's way, annie's way, and God’s way…

I see you'd like to get very person using my real name that only a few I had trusted with.

Oops. :shk: I am sorry for that. I didn’t mean to address you as such on this thread; I didn’t notice that, even when I re-read my post; mainly because I don’t think of you as your user name, but as your real name. I was going to edit my post but there is no edit function on this forum, it seems. Please forgive me, for I am sorry I did that.

I only ask that you continue to shed that love here and show a little more respect for the wishes of others to remain anonymous if they're more comfortable speaking by doing so.

Yes, you are right. As I said, I beg your pardon for my oversight: there is no excuse for my carelessness.

It stated their was Belial's way and YOUR way. God was not mentioned, hence the concern.

I wonder at that, considering the fact that my posts rarely lack mention of God and my loyalty to Him! Although I am sure you have no true understanding of the degree of my unity with God—which doesn’t demonstrate separation, in His will and my will, with my words. That unity is something I live, breath, eat, think, and sleep with, 24/7. Without exception. It seems my words reflected that.

God does not conform Himself to us, we need to conform to Him. It's a recurring theme Biblically.

That was my point, in saying it two different ways; that my way is the same as His way, not because I choose it to be, but because He has conformed me to Him and His Son. We cannot conform to Him. He will conform us to Him through the mind of Christ. That is the theme you speak of. It is a truth I have experienced.
Romans 8:27-3

I do know that Christ said, "No one comes to the father except through me". So Christ is the key component to reaching God.

Christ is the instrumentality but it is God who determines all things.
John 6:44-46
John 6:65

Do you think that it is a personal thing, with God? Very personal, yes. But not solely personal, if that makes sense.

No, what I meant was—do you think that is a person’s individual choice which brings them into the labors of the field? Because it is not—that is what Christianity teaches, but it is error. It causes a lot of error in people, too, and mistaken purposes.
John 15:16
Matthew 22:14
1 Peter 2:9
2 Corinthians 10:18

I do understand that He is the one that chooses and prepares--plans and executes. I think some people can choose him, but I was not one of them.

No person can ‘choose God.’ Search the scriptures to prove this. You promote the idea that a person must ‘accept Christ’ but that is not what the bible teaches. It says that hearing is believing: for those who hear the true gospel, and believe, there is no need to ‘invite’ them; the gospel of reconciliation inherently contains the invitation. Those who seek further will contact the one who relayed the message. And it takes years of intensive private study, directed by the Spirit, ALONE, to reach the point of being ‘approved’ to labor as an ambassador. It is ordained by God in complete solitude – *fasting* and *prayer* outside of the ‘assemblies’: the instruction comes by way of the Holy Spirit, not men.

I believe I understand what's being said here if you mean we're able to see perfection because He is perfect.

No, we can’t even see His perfection until He performs a great work within us, using our flawed and weak flesh as the raw material for miraculous transformation. And then, we are able to see the beauty in imperfection; and to see Him in every set of eyes we meet, wherever we go. Once He does His divine magic, we see just how much He loves ALL OF US, because we cannot help but do the same. His love perfects us; until then, we have no clear understanding of ‘perfect.’

This was unclear in your statement I think: ‘the ark was the saving Grace of mankind.’

Genesis 6:8
Genesis 6:18
Genesis 7:1
Genesis 7:23
Genesis 8:21-22
Genesis 9:11-17
Hebrews 11:6-7

I'm asking about these things because they seem unclear. I can only find out what you mean by digging in and finding out. You've made me so curious with your words that I wanted to do so to see what indeed it the message you're giving.

It is God’s grace that saves, no doubt, but we must believe that He can and will keep his every promise. We show that belief by obedience.

Indeed, God is the owner of his side, we're only a speck within it.

Well, you may feel you are but a speck, but that is not how God sees His children. Worms, maybe—specks get in our eyes, but worms overturn the soil, season after season. Worms are the life of the soil; salt is important, too.

It sounds very ego-centric and yet you're using the word of God in your statements. If they did not sound ego-centric and used the word of God, I'd have no issue. If they were ego-centric and did not use the word of God, I'd have no issue.

The thing is, I have no ego in the sense that you are perceiving my statements being centered upon. My statements are centered around my sense of identity, which is nothing any more to do with ‘annie’ but all to do with God. I hope that clarifies.

I noticed you were quick to sever ties with me and other Christians on ATS with what I can only describe as "hate-mail" to my personal e-mail address lashing out against us. Indeed it did make me take notice and become curious as to why you felt this way, why you want division among believer, and what exactly is the message you're looking to send.

It was NOT hate mail. I’ll address that in a bit; this post is already too long.

If I hated or did not care, I would have no grievances.

Do you mean ‘grievances’ or ‘questions?’ There is a difference.

I'm sure it is seen as high and intense, which it is, but again, not out of hate or anger.

I know it’s not; even if you hated me or were angry with me, it wouldn’t matter. Those are human issues. It is the scorn with which you regard my words that worries me. You have a bible, I know you use it. That is your tool for proving my words. Or disproving them, in like manner.

I'm exploring your thoughts asking you to share and challenging things to make sure they are true.
Be Berean in your quest: hold my words up to the plumb line provided by God.

Do you really think I'm here on my own accord?
(..)
It is as I state it here.

Trust me, I can totally relate to that.

In fairness, you have examined me by your court and found me "unworthy(?)" of your cooperation in a very important mission.

Whose mission are you speaking of? And I was following direct orders, that’s all. I was reluctant to do so, but I was convicted that I must. I do not make calls on worthiness.

In fact, I don't even examine myself.
It can be helpful in the context of, "Am I who God wants me to be?".

It would seem so, but to fully trust in God means that particular question doesn’t arise. When we try to conform to God, then we ask that question; and the answer will never be conclusive or satisfactory. But when God conforms us, there is no doubt in one’s mind.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I understand that; and well you should. But your attitude was of a challenging tone on a human level, not gentle and respectful, and you made several inferences/assumptions about my statements that demonstrate such. See below for an example:

It did not sound this way in the way you'd stated it.

If it didn't sound that way, then why the statement of:
Sorry queenannie, not going to be worshiping you nor your way.
? This was blatantly scornful and betrayed your tendency; perhaps automatic, but still, to assume that I do not follow the way in which God has directed me.


You may worship God's way, I may worship God's way, but I'll not be worshipping YOUR way, nor should you be worshipping my way. Only God's way is the right way. I was hoping to clarify this, and you did, so thank you for that.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Your statement says: There is belial's way, annie's way, and God’s way…


We all have our own way. The hope is our way conforms with God's as much as humanly possible, but, our own way is littered with sin as mentioned in Isaiah. Not going to quote unless requested, 'cause it sounds like you're very well versed.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Oops. :shk: I am sorry for that. I didn’t mean to address you as such on this thread; I didn’t notice that, even when I re-read my post; mainly because I don’t think of you as your user name, but as your real name. I was going to edit my post but there is no edit function on this forum, it seems. Please forgive me, for I am sorry I did that.


That's okay, if there was no poor intention then easily forgiveable and my reaction is nullified. I've apparently impressed ill-intentions that I did not realize myself so I'm sorry for that too and seek forgiveness.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Yes, you are right. As I said, I beg your pardon for my oversight: there is no excuse for my carelessness.


No worries



Originally posted by queenannie38
I wonder at that, considering the fact that my posts rarely lack mention of God and my loyalty to Him!


I used to not question that and believed it to be so, but there were a few upcroppings that made me want to question motivation. Seems statements like these though bring clarity to the situation. I have more to ask, but only if you do


Originally posted by queenannie38
Although I am sure you have no true understanding of the degree of my unity with God—which doesn’t demonstrate separation, in His will and my will, with my words. That unity is something I live, breath, eat, think, and sleep with, 24/7. Without exception. It seems my words reflected that.


Awesome, thank you for this and I think it is how it should be. Candidly some statements you'd made sounded like self-deification and hoped to God I was wrong. If I am, this is great news. If I'm right, then I can only help to correct. Again, I speak up only because I do indeed care and want to be sure no mixed messages come across. Deny ignorance is step one, but step two is providing the truth.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
That was my point, in saying it two different ways; that my way is the same as His way, not because I choose it to be, but because He has conformed me to Him and His Son. We cannot conform to Him. He will conform us to Him through the mind of Christ. That is the theme you speak of. It is a truth I have experienced.


Excellent! Great information and way of presenting it. I don't think there's any confusion when put this way and all quotes hit solidly home.


Originally posted by queenannie38
No, what I meant was—do you think that is a person’s individual choice which brings them into the labors of the field?


This is a highly debateable topic I think. From what I've experienced I'd say that once I accepted Christ, then God certainly did call me into very specific fields of labor


Originally posted by queenannie38
Because it is not—that is what Christianity teaches, but it is error. It causes a lot of error in people, too, and mistaken purposes.


Are you sure about that? Presbyterians typically believe God calls them before one accepts God, and the things a believer does is by divine appointment. Free-Will Baptists on the other hand generally feel you have to come to God and there's great personal freedom keeping God in mind where-ever you go or whatever you do.

Christianity umbrellas both schools of thought and a whole lot more! Christainity by definition is the following of Christ. If you follow Christ's teachings, believe him to be the son of God, died and was resurrected to pay the penalty for our sins, then you are a Christian. Do you have any issue with Christ's teachings? That he was the son of God? Died, resurrected and paid for our sins?


Originally posted by queenannie38
No person can ‘choose God.’ Search the scriptures to prove this. You promote the idea that a person must ‘accept Christ’ but that is not what the bible teaches. It says that hearing is believing: for those who hear the true gospel, and believe, there is no need to ‘invite’ them; the gospel of reconciliation inherently contains the invitation. Those who seek further will contact the one who relayed the message. And it takes years of intensive private study, directed by the Spirit, ALONE, to reach the point of being ‘approved’ to labor as an ambassador.


Is that what Christ said to the theif on the cross beside him?


Originally posted by queenannie38
It is ordained by God in complete solitude – *fasting* and *prayer* outside of the ‘assemblies’: the instruction comes by way of the Holy Spirit, not men.


I agree that instruction comes by way of Holy Spirit, but where is the ordination of complete solitude and fasting? Prayer is our way of communication with God, this is true.


Originally posted by queenannie38
No, we can’t even see His perfection until He performs a great work within us, using our flawed and weak flesh as the raw material for miraculous transformation.


I follow ya so far...


Originally posted by queenannie38
And then, we are able to see the beauty in imperfection; and to see Him in every set of eyes we meet, wherever we go. Once He does His divine magic, we see just how much He loves ALL OF US, because we cannot help but do the same. His love perfects us; until then, we have no clear understanding of ‘perfect.’


I think I follow. To say "beauty in imperfection" eludes me as God being perfect is beautiful. Imperfections being not of God...not sure how that's beautiful but I think this a perspective/definition thing. I'm glad I asked though.


Originally posted by queenannie38

This was unclear in your statement I think: ‘the ark was the saving Grace of mankind.’

Genesis 6:8
Genesis 6:18
Genesis 7:1
Genesis 7:23
Genesis 8:21-22
Genesis 9:11-17
Hebrews 11:6-7


I see God's Grace saving Noah...not Noah's grace saving mankind. I see Noah trying to please the Lord and despite Adam's sin within him, God was gracious enough to spare Noah for generations to come. Mankind is not capable of saving grace:

Main Entry: 1grace
Pronunciation: 'grAs
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin gratia favor, charm, thanks, from gratus pleasing, grateful; akin to Sanskrit grnAti he praises
1 a : unmerited divine assistance given humans for their regeneration or sanctification b : a virtue coming from God

www.m-w.com...


Originally posted by queenannie38
It is God’s grace that saves, no doubt, but we must believe that He can and will keep his every promise. We show that belief by obedience.


Aha! Yes! We need that faith for His grace to be extended, ya.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Well, you may feel you are but a speck, but that is not how God sees His children. Worms, maybe—specks get in our eyes, but worms overturn the soil, season after season. Worms are the life of the soil; salt is important, too.


Okay, I'm good with that.


Originally posted by queenannie38
The thing is, I have no ego in the sense that you are perceiving my statements being centered upon. My statements are centered around my sense of identity, which is nothing any more to do with ‘annie’ but all to do with God. I hope that clarifies.


Very much so, and now things are making sense to me.


Originally posted by queenannie38
It was NOT hate mail. I’ll address that in a bit; this post is already too long.


It sure felt like it. You did not say you hated me (us), but you did say we did not worship God, needed to separate yourself from unbelievers or such, and very similar condemning language.



Originally posted by queenannie38
I know it’s not; even if you hated me or were angry with me, it wouldn’t matter. Those are human issues.


I'm down wit it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
It is the scorn with which you regard my words that worries me.


I don't know how it is seen as "scorn" -_-. You quote the Bible, the immoble rock. There is no way possible I can shake that foundation (nor would I want to). I'm just making sure that indeed it is your foundation. As a brother, being one who wants you to hold fast and strong to it.

If at any time you were to say, "That's enough, go away" I will and may God's grace and blessings be with you.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You have a bible, I know you use it. That is your tool for proving my words. Or disproving them, in like manner.





Originally posted by queenannie38
Be Berean in your quest: hold my words up to the plumb line provided by God.


These are words from one who is not afraid to adhere to truth.



Originally posted by queenannie38
Trust me, I can totally relate to that.


Right on.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Whose mission are you speaking of?


Our great commission, the call to spread the good news.


Originally posted by queenannie38
And I was following direct orders, that’s all. I was reluctant to do so, but I was convicted that I must.


Ah, the same boat. Mind if I sit here? Or...still don't want to sit beside me.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I do not make calls on worthiness.


Alrighty, I'll break this down. If I (and some others) were called to come together as believers and one pops up and says they are all in the wrong and leaves...who then is making that call? Could it be that one is being called to separate when the others are being called for all of them to be together? Then, is it right for that leaving person to state to the others that their destination is Hell? Or they fail in their beliefs?


Originally posted by queenannie38
It would seem so, but to fully trust in God means that particular question doesn’t arise. When we try to conform to God, then we ask that question; and the answer will never be conclusive or satisfactory. But when God conforms us, there is no doubt in one’s mind.


Gotcha, two different ways of looking at it.

I have more questions after we're in accord with many things mentioned in these two posts if you're alright with that. If these are too exhaustive, I understand that as well. We've covered much in a very short amount of time I think but have come to a better place because of it. We're learning from each other. Or, at least I'm learning from you and hoping there's benefit for you as well.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:49 PM
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Saint4God~
It behooves me to publish the very same letter which you judged, in a previous post on this thread, as ‘hate mail’; and only for one reason, which is far more important than what you or anyone else thinks of me, annie, as a person: and that reason is specified below, in the text highlighted in red.

The fact is, it was not hateful—candid and straight to the point, no doubt—but I spoke the truth and I didn’t do it for any other reason other than you had a right to hear what my reasons were—since they were more about you and about God—and about others who would be served by God’s servants, than they were about my personal opinions. I didn’t actively choose to withdraw from your group, God convicted me that I had to—and the specifics thereof I relayed in my email. Not because I wanted to preach or self-justify, but because speaking the truth is always the right thing to do.

Now I know I am not a hateful person these days—back when I was doing my own thing, I could certainly be quite hateful if I chose to be. And while I rarely chose to be, I often reacted in pride or offense and so I strayed from the path of agape and philanthropy. These days I no longer ‘do my own thing.’ And I am not hateful on this forum—I do admit I am often blunt without apology—but when I am wrong or make a mistake, I will readily and sincerely admit it and apologize. To suggest that I wrote an email of a hateful nature makes it appear that my integrity is false, and that I am one person sometimes and another at other times—being loving and hateful according to the situation. This is not true.

[color=#CC0000]I am not defending my self or my non-existent honor—what I seek to clarify and uphold is my representation as one of God’s loyal servants (slaves). What I say and do is a direct reflection on God since I speak of Him incessantly and endeavor to serve as an goodwill ambassador for the gospel of reconciliation on behalf of every human being—for each of whom Christ died.

And so that is why I’m posting the letter in question, in its entirety—I have nothing to be ashamed of in what I wrote, and have no qualms about allowing whomever chooses to read it come to their own conclusion regarding its tone or purpose:



In 2 Corinthians, the 6th chapter, Paul has made several points which God has recently brought to my consideration, in regard to this prayer group, which, as being an activity done on behalf of God, is a work in which all participants are 'yoked' together.

Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: (verse 3)

Now, aside from what I know you think about the things I say on ATS to some of you directly--what I see, that you do not see--is that your words are offensive to others, and the ministry is blamed. People scorn and disregard your words and therefore discount God as true and Christ as alive, because you guys are not preaching the gospel of reconciliation and none of your words are ruled

By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, (verse 6)

You say you are believers, but your ideas and words betray your hearts, and your hearts betray your own minds, fooling you into firmly believing (and not proving in the Berean sense) the words and doctrines taught by man. You do NOT believe that GOD can and will do exactly as He has said. The main reason I have never called myself christian is the same reason that I'm asking that you remove my name from this list:

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (verses 14 and 15)

I utterly DESPISE the bad name and rap that God and Christ have in the present times directly because of those who honor Christ with vain lips and empty words, more worried about their own futures than trying to spread the word of how gracious and good God really is....maybe you do not yet know.....I know this is the case, and I know you think otherwise. And believe it or not, I know what is in some of your hearts and I wish it wasn't so, not for my sake but for your own. You don't look to fruits but to the name on the sign in front of the tree--if one of you labels an apple tree a weed, you are blind to the apples and regard it as something that will be burned. But I look at fruits, and names don't fool me, and neither do the words of men that say God can only save some of us.

And Jake, you really disappointed me. I thought of all these you might be of a more open heart. Instead of replying to my post about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, you totally dropped the whole thread. Whether it is because you think I can't know something you don't since I am a woman or because I don't call myself a christian, it doesn't matter. What I see is that you'd rather be right with men than be right with God and you want to believe God is unrighteous. The condemnation of others does not justify anything of ourselves. None of us, NOT ONE have any right to condemn or criticize another about sin, and to wound the weak conscience of any other person for whom Christ died. Christ died for the world, not just for you--who think the word christian makes you somehow special. You should know, if you have been truly converted, that you are no better than anyone else, or worse either.....for the true experience of grace is a humbling experience, and I see no humility in any of you, only foolish pride and selfish arrogance.

Certainly no one on ATS knows that you guys have this group, outside of this group, but even in secret, I will not be yoked with unbelievers because my heart and conscience are convicting me of the error in such a thing. Your work is not my work. Your work is man's and mine is God's.

annie



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 03:59 PM
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Yes--Saint4God~


I am totally willing to pursue our conversation to the utmost depth in which we are both comfortable. I appreciate your answers and I had just posted that letter, and then read your carefully worded replies--and wanted to let you know I'm going to be composing my own in like fashion.

The good thing about it is, this is a thread I started--so no derailment is possible as far as where our conversation leads.

love
annie



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by ratboy

Originally posted by queenannie38
My story is far too long to post in its entirety--it's not something I need to tell to anyone.

For some of us lost sheep, a long personal story may be just what we need. It is of no worry what others say of it, so for the sake of some of us seeking and lost, please do tell. Nothing wrong with shining a little light on another's path instead of keeping it only lit on yours (I don't mean that in a bad way).


I will--it is rather hard to tell, but I will certainly do as you requested. I think first, though, (and I hope you forgive me this) that I must answer the replies made by Saint4God--they will require less in the way of composition, but I won't forget what I've told you I would do. I hope you are around to read it.

Thanks for wanting to know.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I questioned your implied ownership of "my way" (I think your last post clarified that greatly). It sounded like a call to follow you, and that's not what we as believers are called to do. We're called to follow God and HIS way. Do you want to convince a person to follow "your way"?

Not in that sense, no. But I don't shirk my duty to be responsible for my example--for it is God's way, which He has written indelibly upon my heart. I understand that such a thing, in our present time, is for the singular purpose of providing example. It is always helpful to observe demonstration when striving to study the works of a Great Master (Christ). And He is my example and I have been conformed to that example, by God's will, not my own--and my ways are not the world's ways.

These words of Paul's, below--they feel as if I could have written them, myself; that's how much my heart pines in agreement with every word and sentiment he set forth in this letter:


But whatever things were assets to me, these I now consider a loss for the sake of Christ.
What is more, I continue to consider all these things as a loss for the sake of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. It is because of him that I have experienced the loss of all those things.
Indeed, I consider them rubbish in order to gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but one that comes through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness that comes from God and that depends on faith.

I want to know Christ-what his resurrection power is like and what it means to share in his sufferings by becoming like him in his death, though I hope to experience the resurrection from the dead.

It's not that I have already reached this goal or have already become perfect. But I keep pursuing it, hoping somehow to embrace it just as I have been embraced by Christ Jesus. Brothers, I do not consider myself to have embraced it.

But this one thing I do: Forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I keep pursuing the goal to win the prize of God's heavenly call in Christ Jesus.

Therefore, those of us who are mature should think this way. And if you think differently about anything, God will show you how to think.

However, we should live up to what we have achieved so far. Join together in imitating me, brothers, and pay close attention to those who live by the example we have given you.
(Philippians 3:7-17)



Is it you who created and wrote these things?

I think I clarified that above, but wanted to re-emphasize my statement of: 'these things have been written upon my heart by God, Himself.'


It was God's practices you and I use when we do so. Is it you who will fulfill these practices? Nay, it was Christ who did fulfill this law.

This is where you and I see it differently--I don't see these things as something I put to use--but rather understand their manifestation to be proof of how God is putting me to use. Christ fulfilled the law, yes--but these are not that same law--these are the principles and laws by which we are to live. The law fulfilled by Christ was one of karmic debt--namely for transgressions such as murder (Cain killing Abel) and idolatry (innate human tendencies throughout history).

The law required the blood of a man who sheds the blood of another man. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Christ fulfilled that law by taking upon that curse when He gave up His life to execution upon that wretched glorious tree. Because of that, we have hope and potential toward doing the right thing, ourselves--toward one another. If not for that, there would be no hope for anyone and certainly no reason for brotherly love and goodwill--things destroyed when Cain killed his dear and beloved brother. Cain was no worse than any of us--he just was the first to spotlight our human nature and tendency toward wicked thoughts of envy and personal gain.

Christ overcame that, and purified the blood in the earth, which was borne of violence, with His own, which was borne of God and God's unfathomable love towards us. Christ did it all, yes--but that doesn't mean that a portion of that work won't be manifested and completed in us--not by us--but through (as in 'instrumentality') our relinquished bodies--the vessels of God's outworking in the material world.

I hope that was clear and logically worded, if not, let me know.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
You may worship God's way, I may worship God's way, but I'll not be worshipping YOUR way, nor should you be worshipping my way. Only God's way is the right way. I was hoping to clarify this, and you did, so thank you for that.


Cool beans. But just for clarity--I'm not really talking about 'worship'--which, to my way of viewing things, is not an activity that is seen--it is the literal love and adoration that we have for God in our hearts.

Service, however, is definitely a manifestation of that love--perhaps more in degree than in type. Because from what I understand, the surefire way to show love for God is to actively demonstrate love for other people--not with words, but with deeds. But that's just my understanding.


We all have our own way. The hope is our way conforms with God's as much as humanly possible, but, our own way is littered with sin as mentioned in Isaiah. Not going to quote unless requested, 'cause it sounds like you're very well versed.

That's what I'm trying to convey, here--that 'hoping our way conforms with God's as much as humanly possible' is FOLLY. It will never succeed--no way, no how--that is the whole point of the gospel message. We cannot achieve this. All efforts toward doing so only impede the actual transformation. And that sin that litters our path is taken out of our way--if we believe that is has been. I don't mention sin as an obstacle--do so would be to deny what Christ did. I can't serve God while worrying about sin. That is why He took it out of our way. We need not endeavor to replace it
in our path, and the paths of others, at every opportunity or whim.

We are instructed to love one another--love truth--refrain from judgment and installation of stumbling blocks--and to trust in God's word as being true and reliable and authorized as delivered by Christ. We are to 'repent' from our worldly ways--which means seek the true treasures of God rather than the temporal treasures of the world. We are told that our sins are remitted if we believe they have been paid for and we demonstrate our willingness to be conformed by cleansing our conscience with water baptism.

Then God does the rest. We are to be patient and wait for His determination--and in our waiting to continue with love and compassion toward all men.

But not all are called to do this in the present time. This is only 'phase 2' in the grand Master plan.


That's okay, if there was no poor intention then easily forgiveable and my reaction is nullified. I've apparently impressed ill-intentions that I did not realize myself so I'm sorry for that too and seek forgiveness.

There's nothing to forgive, since it was my error, not yours.
Thanks for seeing that I did it out of carelessness and not malice.


I used to not question that and believed it to be so, but there were a few upcroppings that made me want to question motivation. Seems statements like these though bring clarity to the situation. I have more to ask, but only if you do

Only if I do--what? Have things to ask? I won't ever hesitate to question directly if I do not understand or am curious....and I am certainly not in disagreement toward answering any thing you ask nor am I unwilling to discuss anything that comes to mind.


Awesome, thank you for this and I think it is how it should be. Candidly some statements you'd made sounded like self-deification and hoped to God I was wrong. If I am, this is great news.

Yes, you are wrong.
I am not seeking to make myself into a godess. That would be a huge waste of time, IMO.



Again, I speak up only because I do indeed care and want to be sure no mixed messages come across.

Awesome. I love that you said that.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
The fact is, it was not hateful—candid and straight to the point, no doubt—but I spoke the truth and I didn’t do it for any other reason other than you had a right to hear what my reasons were—since they were more about you and about God—and about others who would be served by God’s servants, than they were about my personal opinions.


I'm going to disagree. It looks more like your opinions than "the truth" and will demonstrate why it looks this way.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I didn’t actively choose to withdraw from your group, God convicted me that I had to—and the specifics thereof I relayed in my email. Not because I wanted to preach or self-justify, but because speaking the truth is always the right thing to do.


God convicted me that I should be making this group. That too is the truth. Who then is right?


Originally posted by queenannie38
And while I rarely chose to be, I often reacted in pride or offense and so I strayed from the path of agape and philanthropy.


The letter and statements you've been making appear to be prideful and intending to offend. I'll demonstrate why when we get to the letter (among other things).


Originally posted by queenannie38
These days I no longer ‘do my own thing.’ And I am not hateful on this forum—I do admit I am often blunt without apology—but when I am wrong or make a mistake, I will readily and sincerely admit it and apologize.


I wish to challenge this.


Originally posted by queenannie38
To suggest that I wrote an email of a hateful nature makes it appear that my integrity is false, and that I am one person sometimes and another at other times—being loving and hateful according to the situation. This is not true.


This is how it appears, I will endevour to demonstrate why.


Originally posted by queenannie38
[color=#CC0000]I am not defending my self or my non-existent honor—what I seek to clarify and uphold is my representation as one of God’s loyal servants (slaves). What I say and do is a direct reflection on God since I speak of Him incessantly and endeavor to serve as an goodwill ambassador for the gospel of reconciliation on behalf of every human being—for each of whom Christ died.


Good to see we have the same goals, let's work together to that end.


Originally posted by queenannie38
And so that is why I’m posting the letter in question, in its entirety—I have nothing to be ashamed of in what I wrote, and have no qualms about allowing whomever chooses to read it come to their own conclusion regarding its tone or purpose:


I have no problems with posting the letter. I deleted it because it was no longer necessary for me. I try not to keep records of discontent.


Originally posted by queenannie38
In 2 Corinthians, the 6th chapter, Paul has made several points which God has recently brought to my consideration, in regard to this prayer group, which, as being an activity done on behalf of God, is a work in which all participants are 'yoked' together.


Agreed, prayer is an act of worship.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: (verse 3)


Hm, seems like you have no problems giving offence.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Now, aside from what I know you think about the things I say on ATS to some of you directly--what I see, that you do not see--is that your words are offensive to others,


How so?


Originally posted by queenannie38
and the ministry is blamed. People scorn and disregard your words and therefore discount God as true and Christ as alive, because you guys are not preaching the gospel of reconciliation and none of your words are ruled


Indeed we have spoken on reconciling with God to any who seek to do so. I can give you two names as examples. Those who sought reconciliation and I personally facilitated their search in finding God...and finding God they did. As for others, did not people disregad and scorn Christ when he spoke the truth? Indeed this is told from Him and in the Epistles that this will happen.


Originally posted by queenannie38
By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, (verse 6)


Indeed all should be approached with kindness and love unfeigned (among the others listed here). I'm curious as to why you feel the appraoch was otherwise.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You say you are believers, but your ideas and words betray your hearts, and your hearts betray your own minds, fooling you into firmly believing (and not proving in the Berean sense) the words and doctrines taught by man.


Indeed we are believers, despite what you say, queen. Let God judge our hearts, not you, for you see not our hearts...seeming to know them even less.


Originally posted by queenannie38
You do NOT believe that GOD can and will do exactly as He has said.


Oh yes I do. What lead you to think otherwise?


Originally posted by queenannie38
The main reason I have never called myself christian is the same reason that I'm asking that you remove my name from this list:


Tell me queen, why will you not call yourself a Christian? Do you not follow Christ?


Originally posted by queenannie38
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (verses 14 and 15)


Are you saying that we worship Belial or are infidels? Speak plainly and candidly.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I utterly DESPISE the bad name and rap that God and Christ have in the present times directly because of those who honor Christ with vain lips and empty words,


How is anything we said vain or empty. You're assuming they are without meaning and we don't "practice what we preach". Show me your evidence please.


Originally posted by queenannie38
more worried about their own futures than trying to spread the word of how gracious and good God really is


Our future is already set, we're trying to get others to have a share in God's love if they want it. It is already written those who believe in Him have eternal life.


Originally posted by queenannie38
....maybe you do not yet know.....I know this is the case, and I know you think otherwise. And believe it or not, I know what is in some of your hearts


How? I believe you have guesses and assumptions based on your previous statements, nothing more.


Originally posted by queenannie38
and I wish it wasn't so, not for my sake but for your own. You don't look to fruits but to the name on the sign in front of the tree--if one of you labels an apple tree a weed, you are blind to the apples and regard it as something that will be burned. But I look at fruits, and names don't fool me, and neither do the words of men that say God can only save some of us.


God says what he has said, none of us can change it.


Originally posted by queenannie38
And Jake, you really disappointed me. I thought of all these you might be of a more open heart. Instead of replying to my post about the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, you totally dropped the whole thread. Whether it is because you think I can't know something you don't since I am a woman


What? Is this what it's all about? You being a woman?


Originally posted by queenannie38
or because I don't call myself a christian, it doesn't matter.


It does not matter what you are called, are you a Christian? If you can answer this question, it would answer many others that I've been asking.


Originally posted by queenannie38
What I see is that you'd rather be right with men than be right with God and you want to believe God is unrighteous.


Very judgemental, queen. Validate this statement.


Originally posted by queenannie38
The condemnation of others does not justify anything of ourselves.


You and I should both know no-one can condemn anyone. This is God's job alone.


Originally posted by queenannie38
None of us, NOT ONE have any right to condemn or criticize another about sin, and to wound the weak conscience of any other person for whom Christ died.


It is our job to "not let your brother stumble", is it not?


Originally posted by queenannie38
Christ died for the world, not just for you--


Christ stated himself, "He who believes has eternal life". He did NOT state, "everyone has eternal life" and for good reason. Again, you nor I can change that.

[edit on 19-7-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 08:15 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
who think the word christian makes you somehow special.


We're all God's creation, we all sin. The difference is whether one believes Christ redeemed that sin or not. Will you at least agree to that?


Originally posted by queenannie38
You should know, if you have been truly converted, that you are no better than anyone else, or worse either.....for the true experience of grace is a humbling experience,


Indeed.


Originally posted by queenannie38
and I see no humility in any of you, only foolish pride and selfish arrogance.


I'm sorry you don't see it. Please be a sister and point out this "foolish pride" and "selfish arrogance" to help people out.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Certainly no one on ATS knows that you guys have this group,


Those I've invited know, not that those whom I did not invite would care. BUT! I digress, if they do care and wish to join, they're more than welcome, please U2U me. Perhaps it was a flaw for me to not make public advertisement of it. I never knew of a good way to do so...but perhaps this is it and will work.


Originally posted by queenannie38
outside of this group, but even in secret,


What secrets do we hide? I've invited those I had a lasting dialogue with to a prayer group outside of the ATS website. Nothing is hidden, we say the same things there as we do here.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I will not be yoked with unbelievers because my heart and conscience are convicting me of the error in such a thing.


We are believers annie, don't know why you don't get that. Where is the error?


Originally posted by queenannie38
Your work is not my work.


Perhaps. Not for either of us to decide really.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Your work is man's


This is the error, queen. Why do you think such a thing?


Originally posted by queenannie38
and mine is God's.


Is it? You've given me reason to doubt.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Not in that sense, no. But I don't shirk my duty to be responsible for my example--for it is God's way, which He has written indelibly upon my heart. I understand that such a thing, in our present time, is for the singular purpose of providing example. It is always helpful to observe demonstration when striving to study the works of a Great Master (Christ). And He is my example and I have been conformed to that example, by God's will, not my own--and my ways are not the world's ways.

These words of Paul's, below--they feel as if I could have written them, myself; that's how much my heart pines in agreement with every word and sentiment he set forth in this letter:


Do you not see that I feel the same way personally? Why do you think you feel differently about this here than I do?


Originally posted by queenannie38


God's practices you and I use when we do so. Is it you who will fulfill these practices? Nay, it was Christ who did fulfill this law.

This is where you and I see it differently--I don't see these things as something I put to use--but rather understand their manifestation to be proof of how God is putting me to use. Christ fulfilled the law, yes--but these are not that same law--these are the principles and laws by which we are to live. The law fulfilled by Christ was one of karmic debt--namely for transgressions such as murder (Cain killing Abel) and idolatry (innate human tendencies throughout history).


Please quote the Bible verse on "karmic debt".


Originally posted by queenannie38
The law required the blood of a man who sheds the blood of another man. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Christ fulfilled that law by taking upon that curse when He gave up His life to execution upon that wretched glorious tree. Because of that, we have hope and potential toward doing the right thing, ourselves--toward one another. If not for that, there would be no hope for anyone and certainly no reason for brotherly love and goodwill--things destroyed when Cain killed his dear and beloved brother. Cain was no worse than any of us--he just was the first to spotlight our human nature and tendency toward wicked thoughts of envy and personal gain.


Actually Adam and Eve were, but you know the story.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Christ overcame that, and purified the blood in the earth, which was borne of violence, with His own, which was borne of God and God's unfathomable love towards us. Christ did it all, yes--but that doesn't mean that a portion of that work won't be manifested and completed in us--not by us--but through (as in 'instrumentality') our relinquished bodies--the vessels of God's outworking in the material world.

I hope that was clear and logically worded, if not, let me know.


Will do, thanks. There are many points of agreement, but will certainly be a brother and point out the points of disagreement. Again I do this not out of pride, but because I care about the truth and helping those who seek it to find it.



posted on Jul, 19 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Service, however, is definitely a manifestation of that love--perhaps more in degree than in type. Because from what I understand, the surefire way to show love for God is to actively demonstrate love for other people--not with words, but with deeds. But that's just my understanding.


I will say words AND deeds. James is a good reference for how the two work hand in hand, but my favorite example is when Christ says, "Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes', and your 'No', 'No'..."


Originally posted by queenannie38
That's what I'm trying to convey, here--that 'hoping our way conforms with God's as much as humanly possible' is FOLLY. It will never succeed--no way, no how--that is the whole point of the gospel message. We cannot achieve this. All efforts toward doing so only impede the actual transformation. And that sin that litters our path is taken out of our way--if we believe that is has been. I don't mention sin as an obstacle--do so would be to deny what Christ did. I can't serve God while worrying about sin. That is why He took it out of our way. We need not endeavor to replace it
in our path, and the paths of others, at every opportunity or whim.


Of course we could not succeed for the reason you've said before, but we are to do the best we can not to EARN salvation, but a way of following what God wants us to do...even to say "thank you" for this remarkable gift of eternal life He has given to those who trust in Christ.


Originally posted by queenannie38
We are instructed to love one another--love truth--refrain from judgment and installation of stumbling blocks--and to trust in God's word as being true and reliable and authorized as delivered by Christ. We are to 'repent' from our worldly ways--which means seek the true treasures of God rather than the temporal treasures of the world. We are told that our sins are remitted if we believe they have been paid for and we demonstrate our willingness to be conformed by cleansing our conscience with water baptism.

Then God does the rest. We are to be patient and wait for His determination--and in our waiting to continue with love and compassion toward all men.


So you get the gospel message. Why then do you lash out against others who are trying to spread THE SAME MESSAGE?


Originally posted by queenannie38
But not all are called to do this in the present time. This is only 'phase 2' in the grand Master plan.


Now you're talking all strange again, please explain, use specifics. This is not the first time I've asked for specifics. You accuse the prayer group of holding secrets, yet you yourself are being unwilling in divulging information.


Originally posted by queenannie38
There's nothing to forgive, since it was my error, not yours.
Thanks for seeing that I did it out of carelessness and not malice.


Good, glad we're both absolved.


Originally posted by queenannie38
Only if I do--what? Have things to ask? I won't ever hesitate to question directly if I do not understand or am curious....and I am certainly not in disagreement toward answering any thing you ask nor am I unwilling to discuss anything that comes to mind.


My sentenced got chopped somehow, my bad. I meant to say "only if you do not mind".


Originally posted by queenannie38

Candidly some statements you'd made sounded like self-deification and hoped to God I was wrong. If I am, this is great news.

Yes, you are wrong.
I am not seeking to make myself into a godess. That would be a huge waste of time, IMO.


Great! Glad that's cleared up.



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