Rumsfeld May Have Ordered Children To Be Raped and Sodomized In Front Of Parents For Information

MAGIC, if you read you will know why it is called that.

"the abuses were part of a secret interrogations program, known as "Copper Green", expanded to Iraq with the DIRECT APPROVAL of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "

One of the links I gave, I actually posted that so people wouldn't have to actually click on the links. I made two words large so you could see them.

Originally posted by Yumi
This is America, he can do what he wants with what I posted. Calling him a NAZI is wrong, you are not in a country that had to deal with the NAZI forces, I wasn't born then but where I am from you do not use NAZIs so lightly Twitchy. Even if it was some how defending me in a way do not use NAZI symbols please.

Ok, Here's more, Google is a magical tool. This is children, women, men, everyone, being raped. Some will be repeats, but I want as many as possible so the republicans can keep Yelling and Screaming "Its not Fox News!!!!!"

www.boingboing.net...
A Sunday Herald investigation has discovered that coalition forces are holding more than 100 children in jails such as Abu Ghraib. Witnesses claim that the detainees – some as young as 10 – are also being subjected to rape and torture
By Neil Mackay
www.sundayherald.com...
www.editorandpublisher.com...
www.pamspaulding.com...
www.indybay.org...
www.villagevoice.com...
groups.google.com...
groups.google.com...
"The unreleased images show American soldiers beating one prisoner almost to death, apparently raping a female prisoner, acting inappropriately with a dead body, and taping Iraqi guards raping young boys, according to NBC News." – The Boston Herald, May 8, 2004
www.buzzflash.com...
miami.indymedia.org...
southpaw.goodshow.net...
www.okimc.org...
www.j-bradford-delong.net...

You lost all credibility man, you are obviously so anti america you are despertly looking for someting to blame us with. Those sites are no better then the "Aliens are landing in my backyard and told me the future and took me to their home planet!" left wing sites like that, hell bent on the destruction of the administration. Give credible evidence, where did the videos go to that this reporter suposedly saw? screaming and shouting distates like your rants get you no where with the common people, if you present this article in the form of a question instead of absolute truth, then in a civil mannor express the importance of reveiwing our military and our leaders actions, then more people will be inclined to think its possible. You allienate many the way you present it, I don't think we should torture and I don't think we should be in Iraq, or dealing with "Terrorist" but im not going to listen to people like you who cary on for obviouse partisan reasons and not thinking about implications when you falsly accuse soilders of crimes YOU WERNT THERE TO SEE. I wasn't there to see it either, they may have raped people in prision, but since I don't know it as fact I wont believe it as fact.

Originally posted by curiosity
Yumi,
You do know slander is punishable in a court of law in America, don't you?

Well he hasn't committed slander so I would imagine he's safe. We certainly don't take kindly to people "reporting" our Members to anyone either. If you actually think calling the whitehouse achieved anything I don't think ATS is for you mate.

The USG along with several other Governments are constantly monitoring this site. Several intel agencies are included in that list. NONE of these agencies has ever asked us to turn over any information (we don't have any to turn over anyway) and we have had much worse accusations than this on here before.

The USG is VERY capable of enforcing its laws and this Member has broken NO LAW especially not "Slander" unless he made a podcast that is.

CHILL OUT curiosity, ALL points of view are welcome, including YOURS but we won't be having any more "snitching" going on here, it's utterly unnecessary.

Springer...

WTF! Anyone who says this kind of crap is ok, u go out there and lets see u don something, anyone who thinks this is getting even!? OMFG TO U. I cant even explain ur point of view on something so ridiculous.

Sorry for any confusion but I am a woman, not a man. I guess you don't meet to many people named Yumi to know. And no it is not like english names, like Dana, that can be male or female, Yumi is pure female.

Like I said, he can do what he wants, this is Ameirca, he is free to report me if he wants, as I did nothing wrong nothing will happen to me.

Citation Required

Originally posted by Yumi
MAGIC, if you read you will know why it is called that.

"the abuses were part of a secret interrogations program, known as "Copper Green", expanded to Iraq with the DIRECT APPROVAL of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "

One of the links I gave, I actually posted that so people wouldn't have to actually click on the links. I made two words large so you could see them.

I am unable to find the phrase you are quoting in the links you originally provided.

Please provide the exact link to the document which contains the quote you are citing.

en.wikipedia.org...
Sorry about that.

Look under the IRAQ section.

Under Second paragraph. Making this as easy for you as possible.

[edit on 22-6-2006 by Yumi]

[edit on 22-6-2006 by Yumi]

There are way to many blind people on ats and not enough braile in the world to open their eyes. It's beginning to be a waste of energy and time to get people to SEE anything.

Well Amen to THAT.

Reading this thread is depressing. Yumi DID provide valid links, and there ARE indications that torture was ordered ("any means neccessary").

Some of you went from:

"Never happened" to
"Might have but so what" to
"Well it is ok to torture terrorists isn´t it?" to
"so what? if you do not like it get the hell out".

How can you tell someone who is brainwashed that they are brainwashed?

You can´t. You can just feel sorry for you, that´s all. I thank [insert favourite supreme being here] every day I do not live anywhere near the United States. I´m sure you´re happy too that I don´t. I would be in jail or dead within three to four months of moving to the States because I would storm Congress with an Axe, fully naked and painted in black and blue war colors while screamin "bagaloorzoaoooooo!"


Thank you. (kisses spanish soil) Thank you. (kisses spanish soil) Thank you. (kisses spanish soil)

Here now the TRUTH.

People are systematically tortured all over the world.
...and governments know about it, including yours and mine.

Let me answer myself: "where´s your proof?"
Answer: "same source you´ve gotten your disinfo from mate.".

Like someone said, it is starting to become a complete waste of time trying to get people to SEE anything (or even accept sources as reliable). But hey, you can still discuss your viewpoints, great isn´t it? (sound of vacuum cleaner emptying a glass of water)

If Rummy did order it, I don't think he'd want it on the front page of any newspaper, credible or not. Most of the stuff happening remains unknown.. 'national security' and such. If our politicians were honest about their actions, if the people of America truly knew what was happening, they'd be appauled. Simple as that. Honesty does not fit into the government's perspective.

It's not such a far reach for people to treat other people as, well, non-people. Sex-trades involving young children are everywhere. The only thing most 'people' are concerned about is profit. It's more profitable to hurt and torture in the name of information, than to be nice and hope they decide to work with you..

It's a sad day when anyone dies, or is tortured, or abused (whatever that is).. no matter what side they're on. Our loss of 2 soldiers is not more reprehensible than their loss of.. how many now?? And their loss is not more reprehensible than ours. Our soldiers are not worth more than their farmers. And if you think they are... capitalism (profit above all else) has eaten out the humanity of your brain.

And for the record -- I am an American. I was born here, and I do not agree with what the government says or does. Do not tell me to leave. The government should fear it's people, not the other way around. And freedom of speech goes both ways.. I listen to 'patriotic' talk all the time because I respect their rights to speech. So far as I'm concerned, **you forfeit your right when you are irresponsible enough to infringe on mine.**

Following Orders

Originally posted by Yumi
en.wikipedia.org...
Sorry about that.

Look under the IRAQ section.

Under Second paragraph. Making this as easy for you as possible.

I reviewed the Wikipedia article.

Please explain precisely where in that article it is claimed that Secretary Rumsfeld ordered that children be raped and sodomized in front of parents for information.


[edit on 6/22/2006 by Majic]

"the abuses were part of a secret interrogations program, known as "Copper Green", expanded to Iraq with the DIRECT APPROVAL of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld "

Copper Green is a program that was Directly Approved, not, "Well it actually went to this guy, but he works for a guy who works for a guy who works for DR" by Donald Rumsfeld.

Sadly I am not a reporter, and googling Copper Green gets me this

en.wikipedia.org...
antiwar.com...
www.answers.com...


Copper Green is reported by American investigative journalist Seymour Hersh to be one of several code names for a U.S. black ops program, according to an article in the May 24, 2004 issue of The New Yorker. According to Hersh, the task force was formed with the direct approval of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, and run by Deputy Undersecretary Stephen Cambone Hersh claims the special access program members were told "Grab whom you must. Do what you want". The program allegedly designed physical coercion and sexual humiliation techniques for use against Muslim Arab men specifically, to retrieve information from suspects, and to blackmail them into becoming informants.

Grab whom you must. Do what you want. It isn't saying word for word to rape children, but it implied it was ok, and used, in Afganistan and Iraq.

Dear oh dear, more and more trash and dirty deeds coming up linking our beloved Rummy with the indecency and despicable acts that happen no so long ago at abu graib.

No wonder the poor man keeps asking to be allowed to step down.

But no to fear even if any of the despicable acts were directly endorsed by him he will never see the light of a court . . .Mr. Bush is telling him to hang in there so he can give him presidential pardon in due time.

Yes the Abu graib deeds were real and worst that we have been allowed to see and know.

But this news about the sodomizing of children has been a rumor for a long, long time.

And probably true.

Now how involved was Mr. Rumsfield with it . . . that is what we should know but will never be allowed to find out.

False, Misleading Or Inaccurate?

Originally posted by Yumi
It isn't saying word for word to rape children, but it implied it was ok, and used, in Afganistan and Iraq.

I'll explain myself.

From the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use:

1). Posting: You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Because the title of this thread is not actually supported by the references provided, I am concerned that it may be false, misleading, or inaccurate.

The title makes a statement which appears factual, when in truth there has been no evidence provided -- or even credibly suggested by the sources -- that Secretary Rumsfeld ordered raped and sodomy.

Thus what is stated as fact is actually a presumption, which is misleading.

Knowingly posting material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate is a violation of the T&C, and as a moderator, I am commited to enforcing them.

Note, however, that knowingly posting such material is prohibited. Honest mistakes are not.

In this case, my sense of irony is piqued. You have apparently presumed that Mr. Rumsfeld ordered rape and sodomy.

Should I therefore likewise presume dishonesty on your part?

Food for thought.

I will consult with my fellow staff members on this matter.

Originally posted by Yumi
Sorry for any confusion but I am a woman, not a man. I guess you don't meet to many people named Yumi to know. And no it is not like english names, like Dana, that can be male or female, Yumi is pure female.

Like I said, he can do what he wants, this is Ameirca, he is free to report me if he wants, as I did nothing wrong nothing will happen to me.

Still happy to send you a few quid for your defence lawyers if the White House legal team take you to court .

It's a really nice name - pronounced 'Yummy' or 'Yoomy'?

Oh and we call women 'mate' too, mate.

If you want I will change the title. I presumed(How do you make italics?) that with Program Copper Green, with the reports of children brutally raped and sodomized to get information from parents, and since he is the leader of the troops...

He is the leader, he is the top person for the military right? So when troops get orders to do something it comes from him, or am I not understanding how your military works? That the troops do what they want when they want with no orders?

Also, do you presume the troops just decided to rape the children? Or is it that they got orders, Program Copper Green, to do this, as Program Copper Green was Approved Directly from Donald Rumsfeld...
To Strangerous, it is pronounced You-Me. Have heard Yummy before, but that is between me and my man...

Fine I will change the name, sorry if this caused any problems. If I were to scam money from the company under orders to do whatever I wanted to steal money from a top CEO would he not be responsible also for the money scammed?
[edit on 22-6-2006 by Yumi]
Hersh Reports Children's Screams as They are Raped/Sodomized in Abu Ghraib

[edit on 22-6-2006 by Yumi]

This becoming ridiculous, if ATS as a whole is taken to court by the government the law sues to follow will bankrupt them.

This threads while may be misleading at least it does have references to actual events events and information about Rumsfeld and Abu graib involvement.

After all he was active during the abu graib and he is still in his position today.

So is obvious that any bad and despicable deeds committed in Abu graib were done under his watch.

So he as a person in charge did not took care to make sure that people were treated with respect and dignity in jail.

So please stop the paranoia.

[edit on 22-6-2006 by marg6043]

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way condoning the torture of prisoners to extract information, especially if children are involved.

But I do have a serious question... What is the alternative? Do we just ask them nicely to tell us what we want to know? Do we just let them go and say "Have a nice day, please don't do it again?

We have not yet devised technology that will get the truth in a nice way, so what are we to do in defense of the Country?

I have read here that in previous wars we never had any "blemishes" we were always the "nice guy" Really? no attrocities commited in Vietnam for one? Back then the media was more under control, more into propaganda. Now we just hear about things faster and in more detail, but to say it never happened before... a picture of a flock of Ostriches just came to mind

Doesn't anyone have any comment about the video of Hersh being obviously edited just where the incriminating part of the speech claimed to be?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

At 1:20:55, it's just cut out till the end of his speech.

Titles Of Nobility

Originally posted by Yumi
If you want I will change the title.

Well heck, if you're willing to change the title, that kind of settles the whole thing if you ask me.

If you can get it to fit, may I suggest:

Rumsfeld May Have Ordered Children To Be Raped and Sodomized In Front Of Parents For Information

Nothing wrong with that.

I hope you can forgive my somewhat laborious methods, but we have received complaints and I wanted to be fair in addressing this.

I do not want to discourage discussion of this topic, nor dictate what you or anyone posts.

I just want to make sure we're playing by the rules is all.

Also, for the record, the idea of suing someone for posting something like this on ATS -- true or false -- is absurd.

A much better approach is to examine the facts and challenge assumptions.

I hope my message is not lost on my fellow members.

And Yumi, for what it may be worth I'm pretty sure you intended nothing dishonest here.

How do I change it? Is it like editing a regular post?
And no problem, you saw a problem, it would be no more then a title change.
I don't get mad at the people above me when I assume they wanted me to do something when it turns out they wanted someone else to do it because it was a meanial job to be stuck on a problem employee and get a note sent to me about it.