Rumsfeld May Have Ordered Children To Be Raped and Sodomized In Front Of Parents For Information, page 3
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reply posted on 22-6-2006 @ 02:46 PM by Anon4this1
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by Anon4this1
Again, stop comparing apples to cut-up oranges.

You're the one comparing apples to oranges. The pictures released to the public were nothing compared to the pictures that weren't released, the ones that weren't released were too horrible and sadistic for the congress to even suggest that they be released.

Stop sympathizing and start loathing and despising the true enemy of the civilized world. Rummy is not the enemy.

Um, hello, I didn't claim he was, in fact, I've re-iterated that there's no connection to Rumsfeld here, certainly nothing like what the title claims.

Yumi
Things Seymour Hersh has exposed.

So, should the title of this thread be changed to "I like seymour hersh", or does this infact have anything to do with Don Rumsfeld?

BadMojo
I could photoshop a document like that in the time it takes to type it...big whoop

Alright, which is it?

Is the document a fake, or are the claims within it lies?

Which is it?

"Don't hurt the insurgents. They're resisting occupation.

Rather, peopel are saying "Don't rape little children".


As far as the claims in the pdf being fake, this photo
www.antiwar.com...

shows a person in the same position as the man in the pdf described it, with the woman's panties on his head too.

That doesn't mean that the child-rape happened. But its disturbing to see that there are some factually accurate things in that pdf, what else is factual?

Also, lets stop pretending that every person in a uniform in an angel. Nothing that was described was beyond the capabilities of a US Soldier, since US soldiers are just people.


More torture photos
www.thememoryhole.org...

Can you really say that the peopel that did this:
www.thememoryhole.org...
Weren't also going to rape some of this prisoners?
And that the guys who arranged this group photo werent' dealing with some homo-erotic impusles of their own??
www.thememoryhole.org...

Are you kidding????


I can only hope that that is drool
www.thememoryhole.org...

You do realize that this is human excrement he is covered in right, not 'freedom lather'
www.thememoryhole.org...

The sort of sick sadists that beat other people for pleasure and smear excrement all over them, we're supposed to beleive that they are above rape?

And, again, as revolting as this is, WTF does it have to do with Don Rumsfeld?? Where's the proof that he ordered these things and approved of them for intelligence gathering?



Links?


reply posted on 22-6-2006 @ 02:59 PM by Nygdan
Originally posted by Anon4this1
These sources are deemed unreliable.

I doubt it happened, only out of sheer hope, but at least I recognize that that's naive of me.


You act as if it's "our fault". We "made them mad" so they came to get us.

I can't speak for anyone else, but its pretty obvious that if you have peopel going around raping children and men, that those children and men are going to come back and kill you. Is it the fault of the people that died in the WTC? No. But can we, at least, be surprised, when non-islamists in iraq put a bomb on the roadside?

Abu Gharib...maybe, but we sent people to prison over that so it's not the "U.S." that's doing even that particular bit of stuff.
Indeed, and that is the claim of Yumi in the opening post, but he/she still has yet to even attempt to substantiate it, that this was ordered by specifcally Rumsfeld, let alone anyone in the Administration.

We have a clear enemy and they are the masked figures beheading, killing

THe very fact that they are masked is what makes this difficult. THese guys don't wear uniforms, hell even the NAZIS wore uniforms. These guys don't, and given that the US simply isn't popular in the first place, we have to be incredibly careful not to arrest and detain innocent, though not fond of america, civilians, and we CERTAINLY can't permit our own soliders to murder, torture, rape, and kill, men, women, chidlren, put under their guard. Who in Iraq wouldn't rather be shot to death when the americans come to their house, even if they are innocent, after hearing about abu garaib? Who in Iraq would let their wives or daughters be taken in 'for questioning', possibly to those goons???

This is the enemy. Be clear on that or they will never be defeated.

The enemy is anything or anyone that inhibits the WOT. THus, those soldiers, are very much the enemy, they may as well be the propaganda arm of al qaida. THey should probably be shot, along with any insurgent.

They do not care about you and therein lies the problem.

The problem, that is largely holding us up in Iraq, is that the Iraqis are probably starting to realize that we don't care about them. And that we'll cover up horrendous abuse inflicted upon them, and not, if not prevent it, then mette out Justice to the abusers.

You can't rape some guy in the butt on friday and then expect him to tell you where the bad guys are on saturday.


reply posted on 22-6-2006 @ 03:13 PM by Benevolent Heretic
Rumsfeld Ordered Torture


Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld put in place a secret operation that, in Hersh's words, "encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in an effort to generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq."


Children at Abu Ghraib

Mysteriously, not all of the links work, but some do.

German Article in English

Yeah, this kind of news doesn't make it to the US... but plenty of countries around the world know about the US behavior at Abu Ghraib...


reply posted on 22-6-2006 @ 03:31 PM by nikelbee
Originally posted by Yumi

Seymour Hersh was also the first reporter to say we would not find WMDs.
He has won Polk Awards, and in 2004 won another award, over all he has won over a Dozen Respectable Awards, plus a few minor ones.


Let's not forget the Pulitzer Prize in 1970 for International Reporting. This is a well respected man in his field as well as being someone who has the guts to say what is really happening in the face of a radical administration hell bent on war and cover-up. He was famous for exposing similar cover-ups of torture in Vietnam.

How many journalists can you say are still fighting for the cause of the victims of war?

And for those of you who are comparing the torture and killing of soldiers with the torture of children and prisoners of war, shame on you. War is war on either side. Those children and prisoners have families too. Or have you hardened yourself so much against them that it doesn't bother you when you look at the photos or those people being tortured? That level of hatred and insensitivity is nothing new though is it? Especially when it allows you to continue believing what you want to believe.

The US talks about 'freedom' and 'liberation' and then employs methods similar to the factions it is supposedly fighting against. How does it make them better?

For those who still don't believe any torture of any kind from the 'good' side, wake up. Better yet, grow up. The US didn't get to where it is today by playing nicely.


The US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, personally authorised the expansion of a special programme which ultimately led to the abuses in Abu Ghraib prison, the New Yorker magazine claims today.

The operation, which encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation to obtain intelligence, was known to President George Bush and fewer than 200 operatives. It was approved by the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, according to the report. The programme was governed by the rules: "Grab who you must. Do what you want," a former intelligence officer told the magazine.
www.guardian.co.uk...



Or how about this guy. Still not patriotic or believable enough for you?

Colonel Pheneger is a highly decorated thirty year veteran who has served in various high level military posts throughout his career, including: Commander, U. S. Army Intelligence School, Director of Intelligence, U. S. Special Operations Command; Deputy Director of Intelligence, and has worked with the USSOCOM and USCENTCOM teams providing high level intelligence support. Colonel Pheneger is also a lifelong Republican


Colonel Pheneger submitted testimony asking that new Abu Ghraib documents be published and not covered up.

I'm sure this will provoke screeches of 'leftist'. Nonetheless, here it is...

The ACLU also released an Information Paper entitled "Allegations of Detainee Abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan" dated April 2, 2004, two weeks before the world saw the pictures of torture at Abu Ghraib prison. The paper outlined the status of 62 investigations of detainee abuse and detainee deaths. Cases include assaults, punching, kicking and beatings, mock executions, sexual assault of a female detainee, threatening to kill an Iraqi child to "send a message to other Iraqis," stripping detainees, beating them and shocking them with a blasting device, throwing rocks at handcuffed Iraqi children, choking detainees with knots of their scarves and interrogations at gunpoint. (emphasis mine) www.rawstory.com...


Are you really that naive to believe this isn't going on? It isn't a question of denial or saying 'yeah they killed and tortured two of ours'. Or to say, well we didn't see it so it didn't happen.

One has to protect and be vigiliant against this sort of inhumane behaviour and mentality at ALL costs. ESPECIALLY during war.
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