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The Rapture happened last thursday.

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posted on Jun, 27 2006 @ 07:02 PM
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Originally posted by toolman

Christ does not refer to a "rapture". It is the creation of new agers and people so caught up in their newfound belief passages are interpreted to support this modern theory.



Yes He did.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

There are more also.

If you think christians delight in suffering and death and murder, you don't know what a christian is.




posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by laiguana
There won't be a rapture, people that look forward to such things disgust me. They are the kind of people that would kill you if the voices in their head told them to. It's a good thing we have the electric chair to relieve their symptoms.


OK, I'm serious, fill in the blank, the rapture is a bad thing because___________.



The rapture is a bad thing because when Bush ran in Texax, he realized he could get elected president by garnering the fundamentalist christian voting block. Those people believe that Jerusalum must be standing in order for Christ to return.

The Israeli government maintains an uneasy relationship with them because they support them financially and militarily but privately regard the doctrine as dangerous and have even limited rapture enthusiast tours. The rapturists visit Israel shower their 'christian compassion' on the residents there with the attitude that if they don't convert, they'll burn in hell.

Their religious manifesto fit in nicely with the hawkish neo-cons desire to dominate the region. Wolfowitz wrote a paper in university outlining the need for military expansion there in order to maintain the status of America.

So the rapture is not about peace love and understanding, its military/political motivations wrapped up in religious fervour. If faith without works is dead - that's works for a war-like and judgemental faith.

Plus what are the psychological effects of telling people that the end of the world is here, but don't worry because Christ will save the day. I do recall reading somewhere in the bible that Christ said even he didn't know when the end would come, it was up to God alone. And I guess changable. It's just not as practical as dealing with global warming and diplomacy.

I say plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Eschatology is spiritual metaphor - Every dog gets his day.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by clearwater
So the rapture is not about peace love and understanding, its military/political motivations wrapped up in religious fervour. .


The rapture is about a timetable. I don't know how old you are but I was born in 1963 so since I could learn about the world nuclear weapons have always been around. So to me there is a shock value to them but not as great as it could be. To someone who was born in the 1920's they have a greater shock value because they knew what it was like without them. Look around the world is getting worse and worse, not better.

At a point in time God is going to be done with all this trouble that man gets himself into. He's going to say enough is enough. The rapture is a warning that His return is near. Are things going to get worse after the rapture, yes, because mankind will see to it that it does. The Bible tells us what is going to happen in the end times. It doesn't tell us the particulars because we want them to come about. We are told the particulars because mankind is bent on destruction and God knows this and He is telling us what is coming so that we recognize the times we are in. We are being told these things to sober us up.

The rapture is about salvation for those taken and the seed planted for others to be saved. It's also about God being fed up with all the destruction and starting the countdown for it's final end.

The world or universe will never end. Whoever told you there will be an end to the world didn't know what they were talking about.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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RECOMENDED READING FOR THIS THREAD "PAROUSIA"

Parousia in the Greek mean Coming

It is a book about how the rapture already happened in 70 a.d. Also Josephus

If you dont know the early Christian church you need to learn how the Jews/Gentiles lived at that time. The antichrist has already come NERO...anyways its not a saving point. So really to each his own..

IMOHO- The rapture is not mentioned anywhere in the bible. All of the references that Dbrant gave earlier our interpertaions. IF one goes back to the orgional language and looks what the words were implicating it diffenitly wasnt a capturing up of believers in the Clouds. IF it did happen it happened years ago. We are already living past the 1,000 years of Lucifer in the pit+ his reign on earth, Anyways...thats what us Presbyterians/Calvinists believe.. GOD BE WITH YOU



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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It's better to hope for the best and prepare for the worst. People waiting on a rapture can't seem to cope with working through it just like any other faithful person throughout mankinds history.

Teaching it to be a fact is hoping for the best and ignoring the worst.



posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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quote: Originally posted by toolman

Christ does not refer to a "rapture". It is the creation of new agers and people so caught up in their newfound belief passages are interpreted to support this modern theory.


Yes He did.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

There are more also.

If you think christians delight in suffering and death and murder, you don't know what a christian is.





Actually, Luke begins with the story of a woman donating two pennies into the collection plate, which Christ comments upon. Then luke continues with Christ commanding people to IGNORE those who pretent to know when god comes again, since nobody knows, not even Christ.
you are quoting passages that destroy the very foundation of your debate.

This is what happens with the Fruit Salad approach to the Bible. People take two sentences out of context, to promote trash like the "Rapture" and other nonsense.

Christ does not refer to anything remotely associated with the Rapture, that is a Modern Construction. It will not happen, and when it doesnt happen in the next few decades or hundred years, the Modern Concept of Christianity will suffer a relapse, and hopefully be done with once and for all.

Christians dont delight in death and murder....it just reinforces their particular cult of belief. Wars and rumors of Wars..? great, we are on the right path. Lets invade Iraq Mr. President, the evangelicals will flock to your support, for wars in the middle east must come to pass and appease the foundation of your support.



What Christ intended is not at all what people are practicing as Christianity. Christ taught very Specific actions and commitments to be followed, few if any are observed today.

Christianity is corrupted by fear, which do not bring people closer to god. Christ taught love and compassion....not Terror and threats.

Maybe this is why the rise in evangelicals and extreme right wing beliefs are occuring..it is the last hoorah for this cult of belief, and the leaders know it. Grab all the Political power you can now, because when it doesnt come to pass there will be some explaining to do.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by clearwater
Plus what are the psychological effects of telling people that the end of the world is here, but don't worry because Christ will save the day.


That's technically 'soothsaying.' Soothing falsely with words.


And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. And when her masters saw that the hope of their gains was gone, they caught Paul and Silas, and drew them into the marketplace unto the rulers, And brought them to the magistrates, saying, These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans. And the multitude rose up together against them: and the magistrates rent off their clothes, and commanded to beat them.
(Acts 16:16-22)


It's the unpopular word--the one that says strife and stripes and persecution are the only thing notable on the very narrow path--that no one wants to hear--no profit in pain, but all prophets live pain.



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
The rapture is about a timetable.

The rapture is about the threshing floor. It's a test--whether you adhere to the idea that God would save your butt but not your neighbor's--of righteousness. It is a thought that defines the very essence of iniquity.


I don't know how old you are but I was born in 1963 so since I could learn about the world nuclear weapons have always been around. So to me there is a shock value to them but not as great as it could be. To someone who was born in the 1920's they have a greater shock value because they knew what it was like without them.

How many World Wars have there been since Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Granted there is still no 'peace in the middle east,' but the wars fought are remaining within the bounds of artillery fire rather than dirty bombs.


At a point in time God is going to be done with all this trouble that man gets himself into. He's going to say enough is enough.

God is long-suffering.


But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(2 Peter 3:8-10)



The rapture is a warning that His return is near.

His return is a return--not a quick trip and then back again later.


Are things going to get worse after the rapture, yes, because mankind will see to it that it does.

In the new heaven and new earth? Nope. Mankind can't 'see to it' about anything. Another group self-delusion.


It doesn't tell us the particulars because we want them to come about.

He doesn't tell us a date--but particulars? All throughout the bible are countless clues about what signals His coming. One came upon the scene this month, even. In June 2004 there was a big sign--lasting about 3 months.


We are told the particulars because mankind is bent on destruction and God knows this and He is telling us what is coming so that we recognize the times we are in.

But do you?


We are being told these things to sober us up.

Are you drunk?


The rapture is about salvation for those taken and the seed planted for others to be saved.

The rapture is about stealing crowns--it is a trick and you have fallen for it, hook, line, and sinker!! I'm trying to give you warning but you despise my words--loving the preacher's soothing fairy tales, instead. And you've got a bible to help you, but instead you use it to beat and plummel the 'truth' into your own imagination--a closed book, not an open book, is that sort of weapon.


So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
(Hebrews 9:28)


Once, Twice. Not three times. Just twice. One down and one to go.

The seed was planted 2,000 years ago! It's a full grown vine, full of grapes, ready for harvest.


It's also about God being fed up with all the destruction and starting the countdown for it's final end.

The countdown started with 'and the evening and morning were the first day.'



posted on Jun, 30 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by dbrandt
Yes He did.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


That escape does not come by physical escape from a troubled world:


I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. (John 17:15)


'Leadest not into temptation, but deliver us from evil....'


There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. (1 Corinthians 10:13)


Escape is not physical, but spiritual.



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