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Tower of Babel-In Turkey?

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posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 03:06 AM
Babel in Turkey
Michael Sanders is a biblical scholar and researcher who believes he may have found a different location for the infamous Tower than has been widely accepted. Generally, the Tower of Babel finds its home near the ruins of the ancient city of Babylon in modern day Iraq. There are many reasons for this location, but most of it comes down to the translation of Babylon into "Gate of God". Sanders has found a location in Turkey that also seems to translate into the same thing. He follows the theory with more biblical geography and logic, but an expedition was supposed to be mounted to find more tangible evidence.

Sanders will be mounting an expedition to this "Turkish Bable" in the spring of next year.

I have been having some trouble finding any information on this expedition, but I will keep looking. I am deeply curious to discover what he may, or may not find, but until the results are published anywhere, all I can find are Sanders' theories.
This is a link to a language website arguing for the origins of all language in Turkey, which would lend credit to Sanders' claim if you place any stock in the story of Babel(scattering of peoples that spoke one language...etc) Here is another from a "verify the archaeology of the Bible" site that actually had field agents in Turkey that went to a site the locals claimed housed a "tower" much like that described in the Bible. Unfortunately, ten years ago the Turks flooded the area and built a dam. It's all underwater now!

[edit on 21-6-2006 by EdenKaia]

posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 09:47 AM
(chuckle) You should have started with the same question you asked earlier... 'what was the soruce legend'? There are, indeed, older Sumerian legends that refer to a Tower of Babel structure and a brawl between the gods that confused the languages.

You can counter Sanders' constructions with Rohl's constructions.

Rohl has some interesting points that he makes (haven't actually read his stuff) but he did take the time to relate the Biblical story to an older legend. Given the parallels between the Noah story and the Babylonian Utnapishtim, asking the question of "are there older versions of this tale that may lead to a better understanding" makes more sense to me.

In any case, you might also like to read up on Rohl. I'll see if I can do the same with him and Sanders.

posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 02:58 AM
I've been able to find quite a few different myths from various cultures that all seem to coincide with the "Tower of Babel" story:

The Bambala of the Congo say "that the Wan-gongo once wanted to know what the moon was, so they started to go and see. They planted a big pole in the ground, and a man climbed up it with a second pole which he fastened to the end ; to this a third was fixed, and so on. When their Tower of Babel had reached a considerable height, so high in fact that the whole population of the village was carrying poles up, the erection suddenly collapsed, and they fell victims to their ill-advised curiosity. Since that time no one has tried to find out what the moon is." 4 The natives of Mkulwe, in German East Africa, tell a similar tale. According to them, men one day said to each other, "Let us build high, let us reach the moon!" So they rammed a great tree into the earth, and fixed another tree on the top of it, and another on the top of that, and so on, till the trees fell down and the men were killed. But other men said, "Let us not give up this undertaking," and they piled trees one on the top of the other, till one day the trees again fell down and the men were killed. Then the people gave up trying to climb aloft to the moon.1

The Ashantees have a tradition that God of old dwelt among men, but that, resenting an affront put on him by an old woman, he withdrew in high dudgeon to his mansion in the sky. Disconsolate at his departure, mankind resolved to seek and find him. For that purpose they collected all the porridge pestles they could find and piled them up, one on the top of the other. When the tower thus built had nearly reached the sky, they found to their dismay that the supply of pestles ran short. What were they to do ? In this dilemma a wise man stood up and said," The matter is quite simple. Take the lowest pestle of all, and put it on the top, and go on doing so till we arrive at God." The proposal was carried, but when they came to put it in practice, down fell the tower, as indeed you might have expected. However, others say that the collapse of the tower was caused by the white ants, which gnawed away the lowest of the pestles. In whichever way it happened, the communication with heaven was not completed, and men were never able to ascend up to God.

The Anal clan of the Kuki tribe, in Assam, tell of an attempt made by a man to climb up into the sky, in order to recover his stolen property. The story is as follows. Once upon a time there was a very pious man who devoted much time to worshipping God, and he had a pet dog. Envious of his noble qualities, the sun and moon resolved to rob him of his virtue. In pursuit of this nefarious design, they promised to give him their virtue, if only he would first entrust them with his. The unsuspecting saint fell into the trap, and the two celestial rogues made off with his virtue. Thus defrauded, the holy man ordered his dog to pursue and catch the thieves. The intelligent animal brought a long pole and climbed up it to reach the fugitives, and the saint swarmed up the pole behind his dumb friend. Unfortunately he ascended so slowly that, before he reached the sky, the white ants had eaten away the lower end of the pole, so he fell down and broke his neck. But the dog was more agile ; before the white ants had gnawed through the wood, she had got a footing in the sky, and there the faithful animal is to this day, chasing the sun and moon round and round the celestial vault. Sometimes she catches them, and when she does so, the sun or moon is darkened, which Europeans call an eclipse. At such times the Anals shout to the dog, " Release! Release ! " meaning, of course, that she is to let go the sun or moon.

A story like the Biblical narrative of the Tower of Babel is told of the great pyramid of Cholula in Mexico, the vastest work of aboriginal man in all America. This colossal fabric, on which the modern traveller still gazes with admiration, stands near the handsome modern city of Puebla, on the way from Vera Cruz to the capital. In form it resembles, and in dimensions it rivals, the pyramids of Egypt. Its perpendicular height is nearly two hundred feet, and its base is twice as long as that of the great pyramid of Cheops. It had the shape common to the Mexican teocallis, that of a truncated pyramid, facing with its four sides the cardinal points and divided into four terraces. Its original outlines, however, have been effaced by time and the weather, while its surface is now covered by an exuberant growth of shrubs and trees, so that the huge pile presents the aspect of a natural hill rather than of a mound reared by human labour. The edifice is built of rows of bricks baked in the sun and cemented together with mortar, in which are stuck quantities of small stones, potsherds, and fragments of obsidian knives and weapons. Layers of clay are interposed between the courses of brick. The flat summit, which comprises more than an acre of ground, commands a superb prospect over the broad fertile valley away to the huge volcanic mountains which encircle it, their lower slopes covered with grand forests their pinnacles of porphyry bare and arid, the highest of them crowned with eternal snow.

A legend concerning the foundation of this huge monument is recorded by the Dominican friar Pedro de los Rios. It runs as follows. Before the great flood, which took place four thousand years after the creation of the world, this country was inhabited by giants. All who did not perish in the inundation were turned into fishes, except seven who took refuge in caves. When the waters had retired, one of the seven, by name Xelhua, surnamed the Architect, came to Cholula, where, in memory of the mountain of Tlaloc, on which he and his six brothers had found safety, he built an artificial hill in the shape of a pyramid. He caused the bricks to be made in the province of Tlalmanalco, at the foot of Mount Cocotl, and in order to transport them to Cholula he set a line of men on the road, who passed the bricks from hand to hand. It was his purpose to raise the mighty edifice to the clouds, but the gods, offended at his presumption, hurled the fire of heaven down on the pyramid, many of the workmen perished, and the building remained unfinished. Afterwards it was dedicated to the great god Quetzalcoatl.

However, it is this concept of the Tower of Babel in Turkey that has peaked my interest.

posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 03:19 AM
(continued for space max)

Myth of Etana
This is the closest Sumerian myth that I could find related to the Tower of Babel story. It places the Tower closer to Kish, or perhaps even Ur from what I could gather based on city descriptions and landmarks in the story. Ur would actually be a much better candidate, considering the massive ziggurat still roughly intact there. Well, the first level anyway. The base alone is more than 50 feet straight up from the ground. After its original construction, the resulting tower could easily have inspired legend, and I wouldn't be surprised if this is what the story was derived from. I am curious, however, if this was the largest at the time, or was it merely built upon something that had already once stood, such as Nebuchadnezzar's reconstruction in Babylon some time later?

posted on Jun, 23 2006 @ 09:02 AM
Sanders has reviewed a number of old texts, including the Targum Yonathan an Aramaic version of the Bible. It reports the tower was located in the "Land of Shinar" and that this was found in the ancient territory of Pontus.
"I was amazed to find after I decided that Pontus was the most likely location that several modern academics make this place the origin of all the modern languages of the West. Not Africa, not Mesopotamia, but right there, where I believe the Tower of Babel was."

They don't give any reason for why that part of Turkey is taken as Shinar.

Turkey is not the homeland of all the modern languages of the west.

The article doesn't mention the site at all.

Another Garden of Eden was in eastern Turkey, here rises the four rivers mentioned in the Bible - the Euphrates, the Tigris, Sihon and Gishon.

This, on its own, seems reasonable and plausible.

The Holocaust was the culmination of the long standing revenge of the Vatican on the Khazars for having chosen Judaism rather than Christianity.

Wow, that site doesn't have an axe to grind, does it?

posted on Jun, 24 2006 @ 07:37 AM
I thought the 'Tower of Babel' was a 'just-so' story - a way for the priests to explain to them pesky, inquisitive ("should be a law against asking questions!") serfs why the folk in the next valley spoke a funny language that no-one could understand .....

posted on Jun, 24 2006 @ 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Essan
I thought the 'Tower of Babel' was a 'just-so' story - a way for the priests to explain to them pesky, inquisitive ("should be a law against asking questions!") serfs why the folk in the next valley spoke a funny language that no-one could understand .....

It most likely served as exactly that, but there is also quite a bit of archaeological evidence to support the concept of an actual Tower of Babel, and in several different places, nonetheless.

posted on Jun, 28 2006 @ 08:51 AM
Despite the replies EdenKaia, I thought your opening remarks may have been misleading in a small manner.

There are many reasons for this location, but most of it comes down to the translation of Babylon into "Gate of God".

Babylon means "CONFUSION", as does Babel. Some CONFUSED wingnut may have suggested "Gate of God" but this is the problem.

Maybe this is why the 'Moniker' sticks to this day. Anything and everything that revolves around Confusion, makes it difficult to detect the truth.

2 King's 17:24 speaks to Babylon for the first time, referencing Men brought back to Assyria

17:24 And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon, and from Cuthah, and from Ava, and from Hamath, and from Sepharvaim, and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel: and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in the cities thereof. 25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them. 26 Wherefore they spake to the king of Assyria, saying, The nations which thou hast removed, and placed in the cities of Samaria, know not the manner of the God of the land: therefore he hath sent lions among them, and, behold, they slay them, because they know not the manner of the God of the land. 27 Then the king of Assyria commanded, saying, Carry thither one of the priests whom ye brought from thence; and let them go and dwell there, and let him teach them the manner of the God of the land. 28 Then one of the priests whom they had carried away from Samaria came and dwelt in Bethel, and taught them how they should fear the LORD. 29 Howbeit every nation made gods of their own, and put them in the houses of the high places which the Samaritans had made, every nation in their cities wherein they dwelt. 30 And the men of Babylon made Succothbenoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima,

This was done, to "Inhabit" the Northern Kingdom in light of their failings to remain loyal to God.

Assyria, (the work of God's Hand) was used to do this.

So, with this said, I would wonder what the Assyrian's may have to note on the Tower of Babel. They seemed to find the Men from Babylon, so they would best be able to descibe the area of concern.

My person view would have been in the area around UR, since it was built in the Land of the Chaldees.



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