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posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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Ugh...
And healthcare...
I'm not even so sure that I am willing to get started on how I (and I'm sure many other people in the US) fell about our healthcare system...

Again, what do you people think?




posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 09:29 AM
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damb, i was really hoping this thread would take off.

why do members of this site argue until they are blue in the face about the events on the morning of 9/11? IMO, nobody in north america will ever be convicted of those crimes. it is just to big and to outragouse to suggest (though it could be true), and most of the population does not want to believe it. But everyone knows about the banks and taxes, its right there in our face, and it's not that hard to believe, why does no one care, or not feel that it is a battle that can be won?

I believe it was gahndi (spelling?) that said... "the quickest way to overthrow a government is to deny them the right to taxation"

this site has some info on not having to pay taxes?

www.detaxcanada.org...

but this sites says that site was lieing

www.cra-arc.gc.ca...


believe who you want i guess, but forget taxes. I would happly pay my taxes if i believed that all the money was going to the better of my nation and the aid to others. but since most taxes just end up in the pockets of bankers and politians, then i refuse. and no threat anyone ever makes will ever make me give up my earnings.

just a thought, based on the whole "natural person" theory, why is your name spelt the way it is ment on your birth certificate, ex. John Doe, but any other piece of government or bank identification is spelled JOHN DOE, as though the persons name has become a corprate title. just a thought.

video.google.com...

this has got to be the most important video ever made, why it was not shown in school only proves it's worth. but like i said if anyone can discredit this, i would not be upset the least.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 11:10 AM
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the whole healthcare deal is only in its works for making money, they wont fix it becuz they make SOOO mcuh money off people, both insured an uninsured.

they make so much money off doing nothing, an the doctors seem to be AFFRAID to do any real DOCTOR or DETECTIVE work on a patient due to lawyers an lawsuites.

i could go on forever, but its pointless....i mean i can't work right now becuz i get sick so much, an am so Nauious from just standing up. its quite rediculos

as for payment on that 200,000.00USD notta, i cant pay for it, luckly for me medical bills dont count against me so theres no timeline on when i owe this, an the only way i can get rid of it is to declare bankruptcy... 25 years old delcaring bankruptcy Nice america nice. while our Snoop dogs an Ellens an so forth continue to make money out the arse for doing nothing more then talking. nice.

Someday i hope when we have wallsize Plasma TVs an No vaccine for the Superbird flu, an when we have the ability to choose our baby's sex,abilites,and Mindset while we still cant cure anything, maybe then people will learn Money doesnt solve problems it creates them.

[edit on 21-6-2006 by Tranceopticalinclined]



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 12:48 PM
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Y'know what guys (and gals);
Just keep posting your opinions on this thread.
Anything that comes to mind in dealing with the unfairness of how people are treated financialy.
Anything you can think of.
Obviously, not a lot of people are even aware of this thread, so it's up to us (the people that it is important to) to keep it alive and running.
The more we discuss these issues, the more people will come and discuss their problems with us.
I know it kind of sounds like a large commitment, but if it hits that close to home with us, I'm sure that others feel the same way.
Just keep this thread alive.
Let everyone know how you feel.
That's exactly why I started this thread.
This is for the people, by the people and of the people!
A nation divided is easy pickings for the bankers and creditors!
Keep your feelings/oppinions coming!



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 02:00 PM
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WERD! VIVA LA REVOLUTION! lol

anywho yeah its retarded the way america's economy runs, we work 40 hours a week an more just to get weekend off, so we can have just enuff time to spend the money we made the previous 40 hour week, to then goto sleep wake up an work for that money to spend once again, sounds like we are CHickens being raped for eggs.....

i understand a economy needs to run, people need to work, things need to get done, but dont people need to live a life, isnt life about experiences, an how much of those experiences are you doing inside working.

it seems i have to be ultra rich to enjoy the natural means of what life has to offer.

i cant go an claim a plot of land in the middle of a forrest an build a house of the the surrounding trees, an grow my own foods, an sustain myself due to the fact that land is either owned by a person, or the guberment, an it would be against the law to live there, to have a house without paying taxes, to not be up to housing code, even thoe i did all this without money they would then say i owed them money

doesnt make sense to me... where is the world we came from? does everyone else own a part ot it?



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Seriously!
As long as people tollerate being treated like livestock, the more ridiculous laws will be imposed on them!
Now, I'm not saying that we should overthrow the gov't.
Not at all.
But the type of gov't we live under is called a democracy (even though, in reality, it really is a republic, but that's another story entirely) which means that we as citizens, have the right to speak out against unfairness and make changes within said gov't that are for THE BENEFIT OF ALL OF THE PEOPLE!
Please, please (please!) keep this thread alive.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 12:25 AM
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why is this thread in PTS, i originally found it at ATS, where it belongs. how can this be strickly a political issue, and no conspiracy involved. the original poster made claims that we are being penned into this way of life by forces outside our control.

mr. moderator, if you know any politician that would adress anything that was brought up in this thread, please point us to him, otherwise could this thread go back to ATS where most of the researchers are? this needs scepticism and it's not getting it here.

[edit on 22-6-2006 by tom goose]



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 02:13 AM
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Advertisers sell, that is their job. The method they use is desire. They play on our emotions. The object is to make you feel a need for whatever they are selling. They play on your fear and greed. If they can’t get you to buy the product, they are fired and another company is hired. There is no conspiracy here, just folks making a living.

We do it to ourselves

It’s time people stopped blaming others for their impulsiveness and take responsibility for their own actions. Back in the day. . . OK, I’m only 52, but when I was growing up, we learned a little thing called delayed gratification. If I couldn’t afford it now, I saved up for it. The only thing I would buy on credit was a house or car.

If you lost everything you owned right now how would you feel? Could you start over again? Do you really need all the crap that is in your home? I had to relearn what my priorities are.

The first thing I did was to get rid of all the stuff I had accumulated but didn’t need or use. Then I changed my spending habits. Keeping in mind that advertisers want to manipulate me into buying their products, I began questioning each purchase. I opened two savings accounts. One is for my future. One is for my present. If I really need or want an item, I save for it. Credit cards are for emergencies and for buying on-line if the cost is cheaper.

An addiction implies lack of control. Stop letting others control you! Take back your control.

Chissler, life may seem rough right now, but you are building your future with the sacrifices that you make today.


Originally posted by chissler
Its more of the materialistic world we live in today. So much emphasis is put on the clothes we wear, or the cars we drive. Success is being measured on items that are completely meaningless. Rather than saving up for the future, we are wasting away on garbage.

I am just as guilty as anyone else, but its the system we have been put into.


It’s not the fault of the “system,” it is our fault for buying into the lie. We’ve become a society of shallow minded buying machines intent on our own destruction. Christmas is a good example. Instead of buying usless crap for my family, I spend a couple hundred dollars buying stuff and donate it to Toys for Tots. Then I send Christmas cards to each family member which says “In lieu of a present, a toy has been donated to Toys for Tots in your honor.”


Originally posted by chissler
Its easy to say we have a choice, but when you think about it do we really? Its either conform or be defeated.


No, your choice is buy into the lie or choose to be yourself.


You don't need to go out and spend your hard earned money on the fanciest of things, you can buy exactly what you need. But in our world of materials, perception goes along way. If you can percieve to be something your not, well thats just as good as being it.


You don’t need to impress other people by what you have. If you need to impress people, do it by what and who you are.


Its more of what you appear to be rather than what you actually are. The better person does not always get the job.


Why would you want to work for a company like that?


From a young age we are taught to conform, we are taught to spend. Christmas as a child are some of the greatest memories for some people, just a materialistic holiday. So from such a young age, so much emphasis is laid on these items.


I have many wonderful memories of my childhood Christmases. At one time in my early adulthood it became a materialistic holiday, but no more.

In 2002 I bought a two year old Jeep Cherokee. I have less than a year to finish paying for it. I will probably keep this car for a very long time. Do I feel like I don’t deserve better? Actually, no. I feel like I deserve the best! But that has nothing to do with material things. A piece of excrement wrapped in a pretty package is still excrement.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by darkelf
If I couldn’t afford it now, I saved up for it. The only thing I would buy on credit was a house or car.


it seems to me, that everybody running out to get a home loan, are the ones that make it impossible for anyone to save up for one. the market is set by how much money you can BORROW, not set on the average savings of most citizens.

so people dont have a choice, they cant save up for a home, because property value rises much faster than wages, so if you set an amount that you are going to need by a certain time, it will no do, you will need more.

BANKS RULE THE WORLD

ya thats right, they are educated up the yin yang, but not enough common sense to change a flat tire, and they run your life with everything in it.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 11:27 AM
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Darkelf, you do bring up some very good points, I won't deny that.
However, I am half your age and I already know what it's like to have your entire life taken away from you (not through debt or unwise spending choices or anthing criminal, but rather a calculated manipulation; and that's all I'm willing to divulge)
But this is indeed a materialistic world we live in.
Much of the youth of today just doesn't have the foundation of values that you "older folks" (please understand, I mean NO disrespect, it's just that we come from different generations) due to that fact that they are primarily raised by tv and the internet.
Most of them barely have a chance to develop properly, as their growth is stunted by the deluge of consumerism.
And since most parents these days both have to work, it is often the case that neither are around a significant amount of time in order to instill better values in their children.
It is an unfortunate side effect of the economy that both parents have to work long days and weeks just to get by.
I'm not going to go into what my mom had to do, even though she had to struggle, but I know that there are people who are even less fortunate than I was.
And again, this is just me, but I also question every purchase.
In fact, I've already gotten rid of 85% of the stuff that I own.
Yeah, I collected toys and other useless junk, but I donated all of it to the after school programs (for the children of less-than-fortunate families) in the school district that my girlfriends mother works for.
I'm going through a minimalist phase in my life (although, better to learn that young as I am only 28) but between paying for/going to school, work, my animals (one of my cats is diabetic which requires extra special care), car insurance (luckily, I own my car free and clear and don't need to make payments), my phone (and I don't care what anyone says, having a phone in this day and age IS a necessity), old student loans and health insurance payments, I'm lucky I haven't had to declare bankrupcy.
And yes, when everything was taken away from me, I was able to rebuild myself and start anew (like a phoenix, baby!). It wasn't easy (it was the most difficult event in my life so far...) because my personality and self image were so wounded.
But I did it, and now, I'm grateful that I realize that I don't need stuff to make me happy.
All you need is one word...
All you want...is another story...

And of course, Tomgoose, your comments are welcome as always.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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To the moderators:

Y'know, I was thinking.
If there really is a deluge on our senses in the form of chemicals in our food that make us highly addicted to them (obviously making us spend our money on it) and a multitude of subliminal adverstising giving us little choice in (at least some of) our spending habits, would that not constitute a conspiracy?

If that is indeed the case, would this thread not be best served by being put back into ATS?

I am just curious.
(no disrespect toward your moderating choices)



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 05:10 PM
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When I was growing up my parents taught me to be responsible with my money, not get suckered into the idea of buy now pay later and "free" money and the only thing you should ever go into debt for is a house or starting a business.

When I started working at 16 as a dish washer I would put some money from each pay cheque into a savings account and some money into stock investments and some for spending. When I was 18 I also got a credit card. At 25 my last credit card bill for the first time went over $1000 and all bills are paid in full each month.

I was lucky in that I got to live at home rent free while I was going to school but as soon as I was done school I had to start paying room and board. (No I don't still live in my parents basement
)

I currently have $0 dept and more money in the bank, investments, GIC's/RRSP's then any of my friends or acquaintances. Not that I horde my money and swim around in it like Uncle Scrooge, it's just that I have a well paying job and I don't spend a lot of it it beyond necessities. Every so often I'll make a large purchase (computer upgrade or something), but I plan for it and do research so I get the most out of my money. I don't buy into the unachievable life style “the man” tries to sell and don't live beyond my means.

Poor money management is a huge problem and there are way too many people in dept from over spending on frivolous crap. I see it all the time with my friends. One friend in particular, when he got a credit card I got one of those knots in my stomach. He was okay for the first year or so, paying it off each month and all, but he's started putting more and more on it and paying off less and less. And good ol' credit card company just keeps upping his limit, spend, spend, spend. So sad.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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It would seem, deadboi, that you have a very good head on your shoulders.
You are also very lucky to have had that kind of guidance at a young age.
Now, please don't misunderstand me, I didn't start this thread because I have problems with money (that is definitely not my motivation in this), but rather the view of the world and economy.
I'd rather this not become a thread about individual spending habits (admittingly, I went on a rant in one of my earlier posts about myself and habits, but from here on in, I am curbing these posts as best as I can).
Nothing personal, but I don't care what you do with your money.
Nor do I really care what you (a general term to all who view this thread, not an individual) have as far as a value/moral system.
My focus is on the images that bankers, politicians and the media drill into peoples heads.
I want to overturn the econimic scam that the money institutions wage against the common person.
So please, lets just focus on that.
Okay?
Thanx.
-Wu-K'ung
The Great Sage, Equal to Heavan
Handsome Monkey King



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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wu kung what part of YOU CHOOSE? you didnt understand?
You want to live in the US?, you want the privileges of living there? then play by the system rules, you can change it, but your privileges will be gone.
Yes its and "economic scam" but thats the price you must pay.



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 05:51 PM
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Yeah.
Because I chose to be born in the US.
And I chose my mom being so poor that she had to work day and night just to feed us.
I chose to grow up in an area that had been so poisoned by a secret toxic waste dump that the cancer rates shot up 700% in ten years.

Yeah, I chose that.

Well, now I'm choosing to make a difference.
I'm trying to rally people in a positive fashion.
You see, here in the US, we have the guaranteed right under the constitution to petition the gov't in the case of unfair treatment.
We also have the right to gather in a peaceful manner.
That's what I'm trying to encourage.

(why would you assume that I do not understand? I question everything. It's in my nature.)
And besides, who says that I must pay the price for the economic scam?
That doesn't even make sense.
And what did you mean that I could change it but my privilages would be gone?
And besides, what's with the hostility?



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by wu kung
Yeah.
Because I chose to be born in the US.
And I chose my mom being so poor that she had to work day and night just to feed us.
I chose to grow up in an area that had been so poisoned by a secret toxic waste dump that the cancer rates shot up 700% in ten years.
Yeah, I chose that.

USA is not the only place in the world to live. Your choice was/is to stay there. You knew I mean this.


Originally posted by wu kung
Well, now I'm choosing to make a difference.
I'm trying to rally people in a positive fashion.
You see, here in the US, we have the guaranteed right under the constitution to petition the gov't in the case of unfair treatment.
We also have the right to gather in a peaceful manner.
That's what I'm trying to encourage.

good for you


Originally posted by wu kung
(why would you assume that I do not understand? I question everything. It's in my nature.)

Because you keep asking "why?", when the answer has been given.


Originally posted by wu kung
And besides, who says that I must pay the price for the economic scam?
That doesn't even make sense.

People in power said so, they make the rules, you have the choice to live under ther rules or not to. It isnt a materialistic world for everyone.


Originally posted by wu kung
And what did you mean that I could change it but my privilages would be gone?

I meant by choosing to not live under the system, you lose your privileges(good health,education, etc)


Originally posted by wu kung
And besides, what's with the hostility?

where?, you didnt expected everyone to agree with you or did you?



posted on Jun, 22 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Nah, if everyone aggreed with me, well, let's just say that this would be a boring world.
But in all seriousness, this is a thread for the people.

I know the US isn't the only place to live.
However, it's where I live.
And I want to make the best of it not only for me, but for my loved ones (who are the only real reason I stay here anyway, as said in one of my previous posts) and everyone else that I can make a difference for.

And the whole reason I started this post was for other people who feel the same.

So, nothing personal, but if you have nothing positive to contribute, and you just want to argue, there are plenty of other threads that would love to have you, I'm sure.

But y'know what?
I pay my taxes, so I have every right to question what they're being spent on.



posted on Jun, 26 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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For me, the most worrying thing is how unfashionable it is to NOT spend money.

I go to University, and it is the norm for girls there to spend £700 on a Louis Vuitton handbag!

These girls have no money, but they receive a lump sum in Student loan and spend it on extortionate designer clothes, ridiculously expensive make up, ludicrously priced shoes- and then muummy and daddy but them a flashy car that probably costs £10000000 to insure.

It is not acceptable in the 'fashion' and 'celebrity' world to not be obsessed by shopping and consuming. Here in the Uk we have it rammed down our throats - BUY BUY BUY, images of footballer's wives tramping around with 16 shopping bags and a massive grin.

My friend's 7 year old daughter has a Bratz T-shirt, featuring a 'Brat' holding 4 shopping bags. Nuff said.



posted on Jun, 26 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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Yeah, you hit the nail right on the g-spot (can I say that? g-spot.?.?)
At any rate, it's the same here in the States.
I'm pretty sure that it's also the same in every major industrially successful country.

Please people, please keep voicing in on this and keep this thread alive!






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