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Europe Threatens no Visa for Americans

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posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK
Why are American so insecure you have to worry all the time about who likes you

I have never seen anyone on this board claim that Americans are concerned
about who likes us and who doesn't. Most everyone understands that the
majority of us don't care at all what the world thinks of us. I am one of them.
I don't give a rats back end who likes us and who doesn't. Some people do
care, but not many.


With the war in Iraq though, why would you be surprised
if they did hate you?


Oh yes... hate America because we had the guts to go and liberate
people from a mass murdering dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands
of his citizens; who caused the deaths of millions in wars he started with Iran
and Kuwait; who stole billions from them in the Oil for Food program; who
bought off the UN Security Council; who used WMD to mass murder Kurds;
who threatened everyone with WMD; etc.

Yeah, really smart.
Hate America for having the guts to put an end to it.
Hate America for doing what the UN refused to do (because they were
bought off).

The Iraqis are glad that we liberated them. The insurgents and terrorists
hate us. Anyone who hates us 'because of the war in Iraq' should read
what the Iraqi bloggers have to say. Anyone who hates us because of
the war in Iraq should be wondering why they are thinking like the
insurgents and terrorists. That should frighten them. They irrationally
hate George W. Bush more than they hate terrorism, tyranny, a corrupt UN,
and genocide. They should be very afraid of that.

the video of the Iraqi woman voter who said what those who hate
America because of the war in Iraq can go do with themselves -
www.lifelikepundits.com...



[edit on 6/21/2006 by FlyersFan]




posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by sbob Can we hear of some of your problems. Will you share them. They are important too. Making things more balanced. Until many start questioning there own
countries, politicians, racism problems, religous problems, immigrant issuers, and social problems. (and not blaming an imperial USA for your problem for everything.)

Because of lack of discussion of some of their own country, but strong view of the US. We can not have a strong view of your country and this is not fair. Is your country perfect? If you do not have a favorable view of the US policies, people etc. You get to talk about and form a thoughtful opinion or bash, but we do not get examine your problems in your country or issues fairly or at times unfairly.


Can you be honest and say you are really interested in for example what's happening in my country the Netherlands? Cause the impression that I have is that the more of you are just interested in your own country. I don't blame them, but that's they impression I have.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:48 AM
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Point is ... if restrictions are put on Americans at the same time
Euros are saying they don't like Americans ... then screw 'em.
We can all vacation here just fine.

And you can go to war alone
with out our suport.

If US citizens can come to europe with out a visa then europians should be able to go there with out a visa also.


Dae

posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:50 AM
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The article is NOT talking about vacationing to europe at all! In fact I suggest people read it!


A transatlantic war over visas threatens to derail a summit attended by President George Bush tomorrow, after the EU threatened to impose new restrictions on US diplomats and soldiers.


(emphasis mine)

ALSO the article states:


It adds: "It is becoming increasingly difficult for us to explain to citizens of 10 member states that they will require short-stay visas while US citizens can travel without a visa obligation to all 25 EU member states."


A bit of perspective please. This thread feels like justification to hate europeans.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:52 AM
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Originally posted by Dae
The article is NOT talking about vacationing to europe at all! In fact I suggest people read it!


A transatlantic war over visas threatens to derail a summit attended by President George Bush tomorrow, after the EU threatened to impose new restrictions on US diplomats and soldiers.


(emphasis mine)

ALSO the article states:


It adds: "It is becoming increasingly difficult for us to explain to citizens of 10 member states that they will require short-stay visas while US citizens can travel without a visa obligation to all 25 EU member states."


A bit of perspective please. This thread feels like justification to hate europeans.



If I could applaud you I would. I was just about to post the same thing.


Dae

posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by mulberryblueshimmer
If I could applaud you I would. I was just about to post the same thing.


Cheers! The thread title also says:

Europe Threatens no Visa for Americans

When really it should say

Europe Threatens Visa Restrictions on Americans



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Europeans have never liked Americans very much.


I never noticed that, and I am an 43 years old European.


hahaha, not trying to be a jerk, but how many years American is that? we can't be bothered with exchange rates, you know



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:12 AM
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I don't hate America or the people that live there, defenetly not. I don't hate anyone. I don't like your government though, that's very obvious. But on the other hand more than 50% choose the same leader again and that makes you think and it makes it very difficult for people not to judge you.

I for sure, like your country very much and find it very divers. If I could I would want to live there for a while, to feel how it's really like to live in a country like that. But you make it really difficult to enter, which I can understand. So I choose to move to Buenos Aires in September instead
.

I didn't met a lot of people from the US, so I can't say much about them. The one's I met were really nice and friendly, but a bit arrogant. Also the way they look to the rest of the world. They didn't know much of what is going on in the rest of the world. But I can't blame them too, cause there is so much going on in your own country.

On the other hand I think your country is also very scary from what I read and see. There is so much going on, so many bad things happening, crazy people. In Holland we used to say if something weird happened in your country, ohhh....that is so typical, these weird things can only happend there. But that doesn't mean everyone is like that.

Sometimes I think you are so arrogant to other nations and want's to solve their problems by invading their countries, which is in a way a good thing, but not the way how you do it, that I think, what about your own problems? Your muder rates, racial problems etc etc. If you go on like this you will be bankrupted soon and have more bigger problems.

You invated Iraq yourself and you could have waited for a joined vention of the UN. Yes, it would have token longer to invade, but it would have happened. Instead you just invaded this country basicly with lies and couldn't wait. In my eyes this is arrogant. We all knew that something had to be done there, but why so fast. And even now you are all the time threathning, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela etc etc on your own. Just calm down a bit!

Sorry for the bad Engish and I it's not my intention to bash your country or the people.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Dae
The article is NOT talking about vacationing to europe at all!


I am aware of that. The discussion morphed over to not allowing
Americans (of any kind) into Europe.

On the no American soldiers in Old Europe thing - ha ha ha
Good luck with that. We'd just move our troops from Germany
to Poland where they'd be very welcome ... their money and
the jobs on bases would also be very welcome. All the cash
that flows into the local economy from the troops spending their
pay checks would also be very welcome there.

Shut us out of 'old europe'. We don't care. Don't let our
troops there ... don't let our vacationers there ... doesn't matter.

BTW ... Germany started and lost two world wars. There may
be laws in place that they HAVE to have Alied troops there for
a certain length of time. Not sure about that though ..



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:28 AM
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I have never seen anyone on this board claim that Americans are concerned
about who likes us and who doesn't. Most everyone understands that the
majority of us don't care at all what the world thinks of us. I am one of them.
I don't give a rats back end who likes us and who doesn't.


You posted on page 1 of this thread:


Whatever. If Euros don't like Americans then THEY can stay home
and keep their money too. I'm sure the euros would be much happier
staying there then coming all the way here just to whine about us.


If you "don't give a rats ass" then you wouldn't have bothered to post

(BTW..... "whatever..." is the standard reply i get from troubled youths i counsel if they feel they can't win an argument with me, teh standard and only reply they can come u with)


If Euros are saying they don't like Americans ... then screw 'em.


How many Europeans do you know personaly and talk to on a regular basis ?
I live in Europe and i can't even tell you what "the general feelign about america is"

Where have you picked up this idea that "all Europeans hate america", let me guess on FOX news, on some poll ?



The american-hating euros should be happier without Americans
running around. Of course ... they'll miss the money we'd spend.


Let me tell you a little something about the "money you spend" it's practicly worthless, in reality the US DOLLAR's real worth is 4 dollar cents. go research it, it's true. (every other country in the world has GOLD to back up their currenty, the US not, and while you're at it, go see if the FEDERAL reserve is realy FEDERAL and not a privatly owned bank.....)
In fact he US has a national debt of:

interested ? watch this movie on videogoogle and you'll be suprised.

Seriously Man, stop reguritating the same old Fox news show rhetorics and try to think for yourself, do some research, you might acualy learn something.


But that's the bed they created to sleep in ... nighty-night and
don't let the bed bugs bite.


Iraq is the "bed" the government made, and it seems like the bedbugs sure are biting
!


And before you accuse me of just being an America-hater ....think about it, if i hated America, why did i bother to learn English (my 3th language) ?

Being critical of something is totaly different from hating something.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by rai76
You invated Iraq yourself

No. There is a coalition of 45 active nations and an additional 15 nations
who supported the effort but didn't supply troops or equipment. We were
not alone. Just because 'old europe' didn't join in doesn't mean that we
were alone. Not at all.

Active members of the Coalition of the Willing -
USA, United Kingdom, Italy, Poland, Ukraine,
Spain, Netherlands, Australia, Romania, Bulgaria, Thailand, Denmark,
Honduras, El Salvador, Dominican Republic, Hungary, Japan, Norway,
Mongolia, Azerbaijan, Portugal, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic,
Philippines, Albania, Georgia, New Zealand, Moldova, Macedonia, Estonia,
Canada, Kazakhstan, Australia


you could have waited for a joined vention of the UN.
Yes, it would have token longer to invade, but it would have happened.

No, it wouldn't have happened. Saddam had paid off the French and
German members of the UN Security Council. They would NEVER have
agreed to go into Iraq to oust Saddam. He paid them with money that
he stole from the Oil for Food program. The UN was too corrupt to do
anything. Syria was paid off in illegal oil shipments.


instead you just invaded this country basicly with lies
and couldn't wait.


Wait for what? The UN? They were bought off and wouldn't do anything.
Wait for what? More tens of thousands to die in Iraq?
Wait for what? More WMD to be used on the Kurds?
Wait for what? Saddam to steal more billions from the Iraqis through the
oil for food program?

The invasion of Iraq was NOT based on lies. The Iraqis were being
slaughtered. Saddam was in violation of the laws set up after Saddam
lost Gulf War I. WMD? Take a long look at Valhalls thread. They were
there. Some were moved to Syria and many were lost. But they were
definately there.


We all knew that something had to be done there,
but why so fast.


Why so fast? This situation was going on for a decade. The UN
did nothing (except take bribes not to go in). People were being
mass slaughtered; mass raped; and billions stolen from them.
Ask the Iraqis if things happened fast. They'll tell you they hate
those that slowed the process down. Go pull up some Iraqi blogs.

Syria, a voting member of the Security Council, wouldn't ever
allow Saddam to be ousted because of the ILLEGAL oil pipelines
Saddam had set up from Iraq to Syria. When we went into Iraq
the ILLEGAL pipeline was shut down.

France and Germany, voting members of the Security Council,
wouldn't ever allow Saddam to be ousted because of the ILLEGAL
bribe money they were receiving from Saddam.




[edit on 6/21/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:42 AM
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Eh????

Come on people, don't you think introducing the word 'hate' into these discussions is a bit much? Europeans and Americans are connected by a very strong bond and if we, the great unwashed, allow the spoutings of far-removed 'politicians' to cloud our perceptions, then it is a poor do.

We are all meant to be on the same 'side' you know. Americans may claim not to care for Europe, and vice versa, but the fact is, we need each other.

Although some of their policies may leave a bad taste in the mouth, it is true that America is indeed the economic powerhouse of the world. If they go under, we all do. Secondly, if the oil runs low, who else is going to provide the muscle to secure energy supplies to the West from around the world.

Conversely, Europe provides a significant trading partner for the US in both goods and intellectual property. Additionally, although it may not seem important, I believe Europe does command a certain level of respect which, within diplomatic circles, can be extremely valuable.

Honestly, folks, we should be complementing one another, not coming to blows. Please, lets not allow any divide to be exaggerated further by inflammatory media/governmental reports.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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Oh, Flyersfan, if Europeans met you, they'd treat you to a scrumptuous Paella, give you the finest tea, treat you to their night life and they wouldnt care, and wouldnt ASK if you are with or against Bush. They'd like you for yourself


I've been to Europe as an American. I have no Spanish accent except for some days when i'm pissed
Those people care about us, they do not hate us.
I will be honest and say that the only time i encountered some looks
was when we went to Paris. My mother and i spoke Spanish deliberatedly there so they would treat us decent. We only encountered that in France. Everywhere else we were most welcome and their hospitality was incredible. We went after 9/11, we went in 2002. I only heard concerned people and questions like, are we alright and what a shame those attacks happened. I only heard concern, and i ran across a lady who cried for us during our stay in Turkey. Our whirlwind tour was full of love and concern for Americans. What can i say?!
They are human beings, like us, who care. They do not like the Bush administration. period.
One more thing- i know you didnt say it, but some have. Europeans are NOT jealous of us.
They have no reason to be. How did i manage to understand what they said? I speak French, Spanish, understand Italian and Portuguese. I got a very good feel for their feelings of us.
Now the French, (sorry any French people here) if you speak English, they do not treat you well. They didnt treat us well when we made a trip there as a family in 1975 either. I guess its just a tradition with them and has nothing to do with Bush.

So, Mon ami, these are my thoughts. From experience.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Europeans have never liked Americans very much.


I think that's 100% wrong.


Originally posted by mr conspiracyIf you read their newspapers, you will find that in Europeans culture there is a lot of anti-Americanism. The society mocks US very often.


And we don't mock them? I think there is a certain amount of "good natured" ribbing that goes on between the cultures of all Western Nations, but unlike certain other cultures the Western countries don't take political cartoons so seriously.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
You can't trust the Ruskies.


I think you're icaught in a time warp.

It's true that the relationship between the US and our European cousins are at a low ebb, but I think stating that there is a systemic dislike of the American people is going to far. I don't think they like President Bush at all, but that's okay because only 36% of the American people think he's doing a good job anyway. I think the majority of Americans and the majority of Europeans actually agree on most things, except the World Cup.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by XyZeR
If you "don't give a rats ass" then you wouldn't have bothered to post

Not true at all.



is the standard reply i get from troubled youths

Don't bother trying to psychoanalyze me. I was a psychology major.
Your psychobabble won't impress me. And I'm not a 'troubled youth'.
I'm old and definatley not 'troubled'


Where have you picked up this idea that "all Europeans hate america",

I never said 'all Europeans hate america'. You are imagining things.
Projecting too.


let me guess on FOX news, on some poll ?

You guessed wrong.


the "money you spend" it's practicly worthless,

Oh really? Then ya'll won't miss it much when it's gone.

And as far as your attempt at 'educating' me about the federal reserve -
DUH! I don't have to 'go and see' that the federal reserve isn't federal.
That's basic government 101 stuff and I already knew it. get off your
high horse. National debt? Doesn't mean a thing to the people of
europe who would be missing the $$$ the soldiers spend there.


Seriously Man,

I'm a girl.


stop reguritating the same old Fox news show rhetorics

And what exactly did I say that was 'Fox news show rhetorics'?
Nothing. That's the second time you brought up Fox news when it
had nothing to do with the conversation or my information. Do you
have a liberal left wing fixation with FOX? When ever someone doesn't
agree with you, you blame it on FOX?
Fixation. Projection.
Go crack your psychology books and look 'em up. Doctor - heal thyself.


and try to think for yourself, do some research,

You can stop telling me what to do. Your attempt at psychoanalyzing
me and 'educating' me was pathetic not to mention arrogant.


you might acualy learn something.

Snotty. And right back at you.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:52 AM
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Wait for what? The UN? They were bought off and wouldn't do anything.

This are serios acusations, got any proof for that?


Wait for what? More tens of thousands to die in Iraq?

Look at it now the procent of people that are dieing in iraq has gone up 3 times.
More people are dieing now than ever before.
There is more insability in iraq now than it ever was.


Wait for what? More WMD to be used on the Kurds?

Where are the WMDS
?


Wait for what? Saddam to steal more billions from the Iraqis through the
oil for food program?

That is exact, OIL for food, it's a rip off.



The invasion of Iraq was NOT based on lies. The Iraqis were being
slaughtered.

Get it out of your mind, united states is there for OIL, and influence in the middle east.
WMDS were never found, and terrorists were not present under saddam's
dictatorial and wrong reijime as it was, but it's present now, thank's to bush terrorists run free now in iraq.
Thanks to him now iraqy die from us boming, from us soldiers killing them, from terrorist killing them, from road sides bombs killing them, were those problems present before? NO
This war distroied what little they had, it runied them, having to worry to go to sleep thinking your house can blow up at any time, have you ever known this sensation?



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
I've been to Europe as an American .....


I LOVED Liechtenstein and Switzerland. Best beer I ever had was in
Appenzell. The forests in Liechtenstein were BEAUTIFUL! The people
there were warm and charming.

Germany was okay.
France I didn't care for.
Italy? Parts were nice and parts I didn't like.
Croatia was BEAUTIFUL and the people were awesome.
Bosnia was fantastic. The people were great.
Serbia and Yugoslavia were okay.

South America - Venezuela was welcoming. However, Caracus
scared the heck out of me. Too busy and loud. Bolivia had the
nicest people I have ever met. Everyone shared everything
and they were genuine and cared so much for everyone. Even
the poor would share their last meal with you if they thought
you needed it. An AMAZING country!



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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Flyersfan,

First of all there are dozen countries were people are slaughtered and that needs very much the same attention. But in my belief you chozen Iraq just because this country has the best opportunities for the US.

This coalation wasn't there at the time you invaded them, they joined later. And alot of them were new European countries that just wanted to look good to the US. Even my own country, which is part of the 'Old Europe', joined basicly because they always follow your country in whatever they do, unfortunatly.

'Old Europe' as you are refering to had enough wars in the past and it's not that strange they didn't wanted to join and that they were very sceptic. And yes, maybe because they supported them with money in the beginning. But the US did very much the same thing with Al Qaeda and you made them the biggest threath to the world.

Wasn't your country the biggest supporter after World War II for a united Europe so there wouldn't be any wars anymore? And now you are starting constantly wars yourself. We build up everything again just 50 years ago from that. Because of you we have terrorism threaths all the time everywere in Europe.

I do believe in the UN, although its corrupt in your eyes. I believe in the way they want to achieve world peace. Look at your own country, I believe it's far more corrupt than the UN will ever be.

At the time of invation your biggest reason was producing or having chemical weapons which could be a threath. And that was a big lie, cause they never found anything.

But now, when the war in Iraq will be over (hopefully soon for you), you will have enough influence on this country and they do wat you want. That is your only interest. If you are really interested in things as mass slaughter, or leaders that steels money from the people, or people living under pressure, you can choose enough countries.



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Flyersfan,

Wait for what? More tens of thousands to die in Iraq?

Look at your own country, the last ten year almost 180.000 people got killed because of murders, nearly 1.000.000 were raped! Almost 50% are racial problems.

How can you judge other countries if you can't deal with your own problems.



[edit on 21/6/2006 by rai76]



posted on Jun, 21 2006 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by pepsi78
This are serios acusations, got any proof for that?

Are you serious? Where have you been? Wake up.
It was all over the news and there are MANY threads here
about how the UN Security Council - France and Germany
in particular - were bought off with Oil for Food money from
Saddam. Bought off to stop invasion. Bought off with money
that was stolen from Iraqis - which in turn caused more deaths
amongst the civilians.

Google is your friend. Use it.
The search feature here is your friend. Use it.
It's all there. I'm not going to hand feed you.



There is more insability in iraq now than it ever was.


Saddam mass murdering by the 10s of thousands isn't stability.
Saddam mass raping isn't stability.
Saddam going to war for a decade with Iran and causing the deaths
and dismemberment of millions isn't stablity.
Saddam taking over Kuwait and then butchering them and using
a torched earth policy with hundreds of oil fields burning - isn't stability.
Saddam constantly violating UN regulations for No Fly Zones isn't stability.
Saddams sons torturing olympians and athletes isn't stability.
Saddam stealing billions from the Iraqis and letting them starve isn't stability.
Saddam stealing billions from the Iraqis and not getting them medical care isn't stability.
Saddam refusing to have real elections for 40 years isn't stability.


Where are the WMDS
?

The Kurds were killed with WMD. It's a well known fact.


united states is there for OIL,


Oh for pete's sake ... even Bill Clinton has stated that isn't true.
If we wanted to take over oil fields we would go into Venezuela -
they are closer and much easier to take over. If we wanted to
take over Iraqi and Kuwaiti oil fields we would have kept them in
Gulf War I instead of giving them back when we liberated them.

You really should get off the oil thing - it's just not there.


WMDS were never found,

WMD were used on the Kurds. Thousands died from them.
Go read Valhalls title thread about WMD ... it's educational.


terrorists were not present under saddam's dictatorial ... reijime

Are you serious?
Saddam and his regime WERE the terrorists.
Murders by the hundreds of thousands.
Torture by the hundreds of thousands.
Mass rapes.
Genocide of the Kurds.




[edit on 6/21/2006 by FlyersFan]



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