Lifter in Vacum

Hey All,

I firsts learned about lifters about 5 months ago and have been absolutly saturated by them. In the past there has been speculation that these things fly by using a acctual
lift mechanism, being ionzed air the travels from point A to point B. It has been proven
that this is not the case, There is some other force that is causing it to lift. Take a look
at the link if you dont believe me. Of course I would have to ask what could it be that
is lifting the aluminum foil collector up ?

My personal opinion is that it has something to do with evrything being connectd together in a quantum sense. I dont think its antigravity as it's defined.

jlnlabs.imars.com...

PS: IF anyone is interested in lifters like I am send me a message, I think it would be cool to get an experimentors portion of this site going, where we acctually take part
in testing theories brought forth.

You probably already have this link but I'll toss it to you just in case not.



Link

These guys are bonkers over lifters as well. The lifter in a vacuum is a holy grail for these devices.

I'm sorry, but how's it different from common electrostatics? Methinks it's not.
Try to comb you hair on a dry day and pass the comb over a piece of paper or shreds of aluminum foil. Voila. You have a magic lifter.

I think the point to this version of their lifter is, too many people stated that the lifters work through simply another way of creating thrust... which uses the air around it. Hence its not antigravity in its natural sense, rather its just a new type of fan.

So these guys have set out to try and create it working in a vaccum... but, they havent... they've placed the upper wire in the vaccum... not the entire system. It is still doing the same thing as before, electrostatically fanning the air to move... only now, its too heavy to fly, and the air now has to travel around a vacume tube.

They havent proven anything other than "I built a lightweight ionizer"... my house has an ionizer, really gets rid of the stink, makes a nice draught.

When I was working in Huntsville some years back, NASA was sort of interested. Until they put it in a vacuum chamber and it went "thump!" on the floor.

It's ion wind. The day they get it to work in total vacuo I will throw a big party.

I just dont understand how this could be ion wind or electrostatics if the electrode was
sealed in a vacum ?

image source:jlnlabs.imars.com...

This is different from the other tests I've seen where the whole lifter would be placed in a vaccum chamber. This test uses vacuum tubes as the corona wire.

JL Naudin's comments : This test of the Lifter with the wire in vaccum tube and mechanically unlinked from the aluminum plate proves definitely that :

-Without corona effect and without ionic wind around the wire placed in a vacuum tube, the Lifter is still able to fly,
-The Lifter is able to fly with a very weak current ( in the range of µA ) and thus with few power ( only about 25 mW )

jlnlabs.imars.com...

I also remember a paper on the jnl site, compiled by a u.s army research lab, which implied that ionic wind wasn't the main contribution to thrust. I also read that they are less effective at higher altitudes.

Cool test, though. Thanks for the links.

Cool, great someone agrees that this is not 100% ion wind.

Lifter specifications
Aluminum plate : 200 x 20 mm ( 12µm thick)

Wire : tungsten

Working voltage : 25 KV DC

I was wondering if there was any relation to the positive side of what has happened with the power provided for this experiment to compare to the experimentation that is being done with Magnetic Flux applications. I think the only real difference is that the Magnetic Flux ramification's actually trying to harness the outcome of the potentialities of the compressed energies? IMO. here are my examples of the application, food for thought.

www.issp.u-tokyo.ac.jp...

The power applications are extremely variant, but with some one that has more knowledge of a ionis/partical back round, maybe a little electro magnetic integrities as well.

I also read that they are less effective at higher altitudes.

I believe that is due to the effect Nitrogen Gas has on the whole process. There were other tests where they injected additional Nitogen gas into the arch of a non-vacuum tube experiment, and they managed to I believe double or triple the thrust. So I believe the more N2 available, the greater the thrust. I'm not totally convied of how this vacuum tube version works so I remain skeptical until I can learn some more.(I've spent many many hours on JLNLabs and have yet to come across it. It has an atrocious design that doesn't lend itself well to large volumes of information which he has)

Originally posted by sardion2000

I also read that they are less effective at higher altitudes.

I believe that is due to the effect Nitrogen Gas has on the whole process. There were other tests where they injected additional Nitogen gas into the arch of a non-vacuum tube experiment, and they managed to I believe double or triple the thrust. So I believe the more N2 available, the greater the thrust

Very interesting, I did not know that. Does that imply some kind of electro-chemical reaction?

I'm not totally convied of how this vacuum tube version works so I remain skeptical until I can learn some more.

The link in the first post leads to the story in question (and another related experiment). It looks new.

(I've spent many many hours on JLNLabs and have yet to come across it. It has an atrocious design that doesn't lend itself well to large volumes of information which he has)

Ditto that, big time. And while i'm at it, Tim Ventura of americanantigravity.com calls himself the open source antigravity dude, yet all his audio and video are all windows based. a petty grumble, but still

Originally posted by imbalanced
Cool, great someone agrees that this is not 100% ion wind.

Heh. I'll agree with you, when someone can prove it.

I've seen a "lifter" in a vacuum chamber over at MSFC. It goes "thump" on the floor and lies there like a Carrot Top joke.

Ask Naudin why he doesn't skip the preliminaries and go right for the big bell jar. Show us the thing flying in 10 milliTorr. No more little tubes around the wires. Stick the entire contraption in a chamber and evacuate it.

How does the charge get to the collectors ?
The electrodes are encased in a vacum.
Thats my question.

"How does the charge get to the collectors ?
The electrodes are encased in a vacum.
Thats my question."

When the wire is charged in the tube it create and electro-magnetic charge. This inturn attracts the tin foil. No big fancy explanation the wires may be in a sealed tube but that's all it is basically.