the pope Antichrist?

Ahh, the world of Theology. A controversial place. One of the many controversies is who shall be the anti-Christ. Here are the criterea he must meet:
1. Will be a false prophet.
2. Will have many followers.
3. Will speak that he can talk to God.
4. (this may not be 100% true, but close to it.) He shall come from something referred to as the Seven Hills.

Okay people. Let's think.
Correct me if I am wrong in assuming this, but couldn't it very likely be the Pope?
I mean he meets 1-3 perfectly. Referring to number Four..The Vatican City in Italy just happens to be located in the center of seven hills. Coincedence, maybe? I am doubtful that it is just coincedence.

Comment this as you wish, I don't mean to controverse. I only mean to make you be open-minded.

Originally posted by tumtum
Ahh, the world of Theology. A controversial place. One of the many controversies is who shall be the anti-Christ. Here are the criterea he must meet:
1. Will be a false prophet.
2. Will have many followers.
3. Will speak that he can talk to God.
4. (this may not be 100% true, but close to it.) He shall come from something referred to as the Seven Hills.

Okay people. Let's think.
Correct me if I am wrong in assuming this, but couldn't it very likely be the Pope?
I mean he meets 1-3 perfectly. Referring to number Four..The Vatican City in Italy just happens to be located in the center of seven hills. Coincedence, maybe? I am doubtful that it is just coincedence.

Comment this as you wish, I don't mean to controverse. I only mean to make you be open-minded.

Many of us wonder WHO is coming to deceive the world....
I have pondered many people as potential false messiahs.

Here's another possibility for you.

www.angelfire.com...

Just to be "open minded".

the time when daniel and revelation was starting to be revealed was during the Reformation, where Martin Luther said that he believed the pope was antichrist.

The belief that the Antichrist will come and deceive the world is incorrect. The thing is, the antichrist is already deceiving the world with its doctrines. The SDA church believes that the Vatican geopolitical religious system is the antichrist as well, using the church and state union to persecute God's true followers before the 2nd coming of Christ similar to what the CHurch did during the dark and middle ages.

Ecumenism, the new age movement, Protestant churches and the Catholic Church using religion into U.S. politics and ignoring doctrine and to just concentrate on Christ are deceptive tools into the enforcement of the Mark of The Beast.

The book of Revelation predominately talks about one thing... the true biblical worship of God.

Revelation 14:7 (Whole Chapter)
Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Just ask yourself this, with the many protestant denominations and the catholic church as well all claiming to be followers of Christ, is it a surprise that the prophecy in which Christ said that many would come in His name and deceive many in Matthew chapter 24 is thorougly fulfilled in our time, and that the true biblical worship of God is not found in churches, pastors, priests, but in the bible?

The current Pope, I think, lacks the charisma and the love of the people to be the prophesied Antichrist. Pope John Paul II was greatly loved, but nobody seemed to be very happy over Ratzinger's appointment as the word of God according to the Catholics.

EDIT: Typo

[edit on 20-6-2006 by freetheknight]

Originally posted by freetheknight
The current Pope, I think, lacks the charisma and the love of the people to be the prophesied Antichrist. Pope John Paul II was greatly loved, but nobody seemed to be very happy over Ratzinger's appointment as the word of God according to the Catholics.

EDIT: Typo

[edit on 20-6-2006 by freetheknight]

Don't you really mean the MSM was happy with Pope John Paul and not happy with Ratzinger? What do most catholics say? do they agree with what the MSM believes? why don't we ask them?

From what I understand (living in a Catholic household) is that Ratzinger is pushing a lot of Catholics away by attempting to make a return to tradition. He's not "groovy" enough for "modern" Catholics.

Originally posted by freetheknight
From what I understand (living in a Catholic household) is that Ratzinger is pushing a lot of Catholics away by attempting to make a return to tradition. He's not "groovy" enough for "modern" Catholics.

But the last Pope wasn't either. And John Paul was really into tradition. John Paul wanted Ratzinger to be the next Pope. They were close friends. From what I've read John Paul felt Ratzinger was the man to be his successor. He wanted a strict, old school, by the book Catholic to take his place.

The Anti-Christ is not gonna be the Pope. He's gonna be a Jew (like Jesus). And the Jews will praise him as the messiah they've been waiting for, for thousands of years.

Originally posted by tumtum
1. Will be a false prophet.
3. Will speak that he can talk to God.

This is redundant no? If you are a prophet, you talk to god.

On the false prophet, he is seperate from The Beast. There is no mention of an anti-christ in John's Apocalypse. It is generally taken, I think, that the Beast is either an anti-christ, or 'the' anti-christ (depending on if you think there are many or just one).

2. Will have many followers.

The anti-christ doesn't just have many followers, he has practically the entire planet following him. The Pope has but one portion of christianity.

Also, your idea requires that people who accept jesus as saviour, are followers of the anti-christ, which doesn't make sense. John's Apocalypse isn't talking about christians, its talking about non-beleivers being the followers of the anti-christ.

4.He shall come from something referred to as the Seven Hills.

The Vatican is not on one of the 7 hills.

Correct me if I am wrong in assuming this, but couldn't it very likely be the Pope?
I mean he meets 1-3 perfectly.

So does jesus.

Referring to number Four..The Vatican City in Italy just happens to be located in the center of seven hills. Coincedence, maybe? I am doubtful that it is just coincedence.

Indeed, its not a coincidence. THe 7 hils is undoubtedly a reference to Rome, but not the vatican, rather, Rome, the city that is the empire, the empire that persecutes the christians, the seat of the Emperor that exiled the John of the Apocalypse. John isn't talking about the papacy, he's talking about the Roman Empire. And the Vatican is not on one of the Seven Hills of Rome.

1. Palatine
   
2. Capitoline
   
3. Quirinal
   
4. Viminal
   
5. Esquilline
   
6. Caelian
   
7. Aventine

There are many hills in Rome. The above are the ancient seven hills.

The Janiculum is a hill that represents the northern border of the old city, beyond it was Etruscan territory. Also beyond it, is the Vatican Hill.

it all comes down to which side he pope actually opens himself upto in rituals. people say the catholic church had changed and i believe they have sold out.

it is a possibility that the pope could be such a person. a person who has influence over a billion people after all. whether you think you follow the pope if your a catholic and take part in catholic rituals you do follow the popes road. all religions are pyramid systems, so the people at the bottom just feed the people at the top.

But, again, the pope is not from the seven hills, he is not nearly as popular as the beast is supposed to be and.......his followers are christians. Non-beleivers are the ones that are punished in John's Apocalypse, and non-beleivers are the ones that follow the anti-christ.

Originally posted by tumtum
Ahh, the world of Theology. A controversial place. One of the many controversies is who shall be the anti-Christ. Here are the criterea he must meet:
1. Will be a false prophet.
2. Will have many followers.
3. Will speak that he can talk to God.
4. (this may not be 100% true, but close to it.) He shall come from something referred to as the Seven Hills.

Okay people. Let's think.
Correct me if I am wrong in assuming this, but couldn't it very likely be the Pope?

Comment this as you wish, I don't mean to controverse. I only mean to make you be open-minded.

So, I will take the chance to do just that. Correction.

The Antichrist, has nothing to do with the False Prophet.

The Antichrist will be introduced to us by the False Prophet, and welcomed onto the World's Stage, due to his overwhelming sense of Common Sense, in solving current problems, ie: The Temple Mount for one.

So, YES, 100%, you 'Could' be correct in suggesting the Black Pope, (Pope Benny who comes from the "BLACK FOREST" who is from the Order of Preists that claim some association with Olive Oil (Benedictines), much aking to what the Catholic Prophesies claimed, could be infact, the False Prophet. Numerically, Birthplace, and Order clearly define Pope Benny.

BUT this will not make him the Antichrist in anyway. The Antichrist will take his power from the False Prophet's Introduction and will decive us all into believeing he is Christ, which Antichrist means. He'll wish to save our souls, and will do miralces, and will preach a twisted version of the Bible's Teachings. Much like the New Age Bibles with Fuzzy terms and Political Correct Passages you can buy at any book store today. They claim to be a Bible, but they truely are not. But this is Satan's Plan, (for the Bible) so who are the ignorant (Who do not know and understand what God's Word has to say as outline in the Original Languages or the 1611 King Jame Verison of the Bible, which you can verify with Tools). We'll hear him spew the heretic Crap and buy it, because it is within the Fuzzy Speak pagan papers of a Bible, or something refered to as a Bible in these days.

So, we should be watching Pope Benny carefully, to see who he spends time with. Who is his favourite visitor? This may lead to knowing who the Antichrist may be, ahead of time.

But I wished to correct your "SMALL" error, since these are two different personages. Both have things they must do, and God will ensure they do meet those appointed times as is noted in Daniel and Revelation, regardless of what their original intent is.

But the False Prophet, is just that. The False Prophet.

You can also see the Prophesy about Pope Bennie, being the False Prophet in the Writings of St Malachi, I believe.

Check out the Following Forum Discussion on this. I glanced over it slightly, but many of those details are noted in the links and discussion.

But do not think that the Next Pope, Peter, will be the Antichrist. Pope Peter, will lead the Church in the Millenium Kingdom. The Rock of Christ's Church.


And Nygdan

You are wrong. Christians and Non Believers alike, will be the deceived by the Antichrist/Beast. He will come, and represent everything he can, to be the Christ Like person, he will come here to be. Not just the Non Believer's. 95% of the Population of this globe will be kissing his butt, my friend.

Christ noted himself, those days will be shortened, inorder to spare the Elect, since they will even nearly believe in Satan's Scam. And the Seven Hills refer to the 'Seat of Power' that the Antichrist will get his authority from. Funny enough, this will apply to the Temple Mount also, in some future date.

But the Judgement written of does not occur right away. Christ, and his Elect will teach God's Word for a 1000 Years. Then the Line in the sand will be laid, those who still follow Satan will recieve "Judgement". I do not expect God nor Christ could Judge any, based on the Pagan Crap spewed in Pulpits today. Those wolves will be treated accordingly, but the Sheep, will be educated properly and then given that choice. According to what Revelations explains anyways.

Don't be one Nygdan. Stand with the Spiritual Armour Paul teaches us to be wearing for these days.

Ciao

Shane

Christians and Non Believers alike, will be the deceived by the Antichrist/Beast.

I just don't see how that works in John's Apocalypse. He's writting it to his fellow christians in the seven churches in turkey, they're being persecuted by non-beleivers. They aren't having problems with beleivers.

95% of the Population of this globe will be kissing his butt

This especially makes sense for its original audience, where christians were a small group.

Christ noted himself, those days will be shortened, inorder to spare the Elect

Where? I am not familiar.

Stand with the Spiritual Armour Paul teaches us to be wearing

Humourusly enough I had just read that section, in a book that looked at the history of the idea of fallen angels.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Where? I am not familiar.

I can't tear his quote apart, and 'Cut n Paste' Scripture like a Preacher does, so I just offer his remark, as found in Matthew Chapter 24. It's too easy to make scripture mean anything, when taken out of context.

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And if there is any doubt about when this is refering to, continue the Chapter and learn that Parable of the Fig Tree. This Parable starts the Clock ticking to the Generation, that shall not pass. It is Israel reborn!

As for those days being shortened, this is taken to reflect upon the "Tribulation" period and the Wonderful Plan the INSTEAD of Christ (Antichrist in the Greek) has that binds a 7 year peace with Israel, and will reflect on the Temple Mount greatly. The Antichrist can not stand where he noted in verse 15 (the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place) if the Temple is not reconstructed.

This deal with Israel will be ended, 3 and 1/2 years into the deal, when the Antichrist stops the sacrafice and stands in the Holy Temple claiming to be God. The shortening of the days, reflect upon the last half of the 7 Year Period.

Do you ever wonder why, 24 hours "SEEM" to pass by faster and faster each year your live? I can recall time, during a misspent youth, taking forever. Now, Xmas seems like it was two months ago, when it was really Six (this being June 21/06)

Whether this is part of the Shortening or those days will be cutt short of 3 and 1/2 years to 2 and 1/4 years (for an example), is not clear, but the urgency will revolve around the fantastic deception being played out by Satan, acting his bit part out for all the world to see. Even the Elect, (who will teach the Flesh that do come thru the Tribulation during the Millenium Kingdom GOD'S WORD), will nearly become deceived that Satan is Christ. So is an average Catholic or Pentcostal or Baptist, any better prepared than the Elect? Saddly, NO! Most today are completely IGNORANT of God's Word, when really it is not all that difficult, IF YOU TAKE THE TIME TO LEARN IT.

Hell, this doesn't even take into consideration those whom have constructed this "RAPTURE" Theory, and what they will whore to, when Satan comes and say's I am here to take you away.

Many harbour their belief that the Church is 'Taken Away" and use Christ's words in this Chapter as there basis of misconception.

37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Strangely enough, the Church is ready to be taken, but they forget the example offered. The Nephilium and Fallen Angels, along with the Infected of Man, was what was taken in the Flood.

I trust you get what I mean !!!

Also, try reading THIS PRESENT DARKNESS by Frank Peretti. It lays out in a Fiction, what is going on today. Spiritual Decepetion. It's a Slow Starter, setting the scene, but is a good example, and exciting none the less.

Ciao

Shane

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

The interesting thing here is that others have suggested that the abomination of desolation was the installment of an idol to the sucessor to Alexander in the Temple. But here we have an apostle saying it hasn't happened. I'd've liked to have seen the discussion between the different sets of jews on that matter.

But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation

Interesting, I wasn't familiar with this. Seems to indivate that it all starts in the winter then, and on a weekend nonetheless.

insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect

I think that this means that the elect won't be deceived though no?

Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

I've got to say I find it confusing that he's urging people to be aware and resist, but at the same time, only those elect who are predetermined will be spared. But I suppose thats allways a problem with the idea of predeterminiation.

Why think that the elect are only a subsection of christians here though? Maybe the elect are those who happen to be christians at the time of John's Apocalypse.

Even the Elect,[...] will nearly become deceived that Satan is Christ. So is an average Catholic or Pentcostal or Baptist, any better prepared than the Elect? Saddly, NO!

But what if they are the elect?

The Nephilium and Fallen Angels, along with the Infected of Man, was what was taken in the Flood.

I trust you get what I mean !!!

I'm actually rather dense and I am not sure I do. Do you mean to say that, as in the antediluvian (I love that word! :lol age, before or during the end of the world there will be humans reproducing with angels (possibly those 'falsely' "raptured" into satans realm?), and this will be, as in the old days, the impetus for the destruction?
Thats certainly interesting. But what of the idea that the nefilim and 'Sons of God' weren't the result of fallen angels, but rather the reproduction between sons of Seth and daughters of Cain?
(which, I think is the catholic understanding, and thus we can relate it back to the general intent of the thread).


[edit on 21-6-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
I'd've liked to have seen the discussion between the different sets of jews on that matter.

Well here's exactly wht Daniel notes in the 11th Chapter.

Recall the context, and this is why I start at Verse 29. "At the time Appointed", and the Closing "to seal up these things" till the times, such as now.

011:029 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
011:030 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
011:031 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
011:032 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
011:033 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
011:034 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
011:035 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
011:036 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
011:037 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
011:038 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
011:039 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
011:040 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
011:041 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
011:042 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
011:043 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.
011:044 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
011:045 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
012:001 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
012:002 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
012:003 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
012:004 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This is END TIMES PROPHESY. Even Michael, with his own "Sort" of Glory, is again, noted for action. Capturing Satan, (the Antichrist) during the Armeggedon Scenario.

I think that this means that the elect won't be deceived though no?

Yes, but it will become near to that point where they could fail.

But I suppose thats allways a problem with the idea of predeterminiation.

Many of the Elect maybe VALID Christians, and followerers of God's Word. Surprisingly, some may only realize this and become Christians and Followerers after the Crap starts.

But as you see, in the Early Chapters of Revelations, ONLY 2, of those seven Churches actually taught God's Word.

But what if they are the elect?

We'll can only wait to see.

I'm actually rather dense and I am not sure I do.

Actually, I wouldn't say so. You always show an interest in learning. Denisity is found in those that know it all already, without considering "Other Aspects"

And you are quite close, in your response. The Fallen and Nephilium, are the Sons of Seth, and Zeus, and Hera, and Vulcan and Ishtar, and Venus, and so on. These are Fallen angels claiming to be God's and have taken the daughter of Man to produce their Spawn. And actually, I strongly believe Cain was Satan Son, as I noted in a lenghty topic on this.

But no, you are close to understanding what is meant.

And these are the reason God caused Noah's Flood to occur. TO TAKE THESE AWAY.
So is the Church Poised at some level to be Taken? They plead for it to happen everyday. And I am sure Satan/Antichrist will only be so pleased to accomodate their wishes.

I am not certain of how the Catholic's fit in with this "Rapture" matter, but if they too believe in this, the False Prophet will certainly lead them down the wrong path, due to what he will be doing to support the Antichrist.

Ciao

Shane

Revelation 17
The Woman and the Beast
1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

5 This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

Revelation 13
4 They fell down and paid homage to the dragon, because he had bestowed on the beast all his dominion and authority; they also praised and worshiped the beast, exclaiming, Who is a match for the beast, and, Who can make war against him?

You may find bible correlations to about anything that happens in the world; you just need a bit of imagination and do the maths. I aint defending the pope, just saying that basing your claims in bible verses, wont proove jack.

Originally posted by Mike Phil
You may find bible correlations to about anything that happens in the world; you just need a bit of imagination and do the maths. I aint defending the pope, just saying that basing your claims in bible verses, wont proove jack.

do you have any idea how flawed that logic is? just a bit of imagination and do the math? I think from anyone's perspective you can practically correlate anything in the world using your method.

With a bit of imagination and math i can disprove gravity. I ain't saying science is wrong, but scientists basing thier claims on scientific evidence etc won't prove jack.

Originally posted by tumtum
1. Will be a false prophet.
2. Will have many followers.
3. Will speak that he can talk to God.
4. (this may not be 100% true, but close to it.) He shall come from something referred to as the Seven Hills.

Sounds more like Pat Roberston to me. Maybe Billy Graham.

But the whole "anti-christ" thing is ridiculous to begin with, because the prophecy was intended to be fulfilled within a few years of its writing, and never meant to be dragged through history ad infinitum. Again, this is just more anthropomorphizing of social and moral concepts, and a stale holdover from Zoroastrian theology. Nobody with any degree of sophistication in their understanding of religion, and Christianity in particular, takes the stuff seriously, although it does have an appeal to childish, unsophisticated boneheads (Southern Baptist types come to mind), who never read the Bible and who think of this stuff on the level of a Marvel Comic.

Originally posted by Enkidu

But the whole "anti-christ" thing is ridiculous to begin with, because the prophecy was intended to be fulfilled within a few years of its writing, and never meant to be dragged through history ad infinitum.

You are very confused my friend.

Prophecy is just that. Some reflect for periods that have passed, but some are unfolding today.

Many of the Prophecies for today, could not have occured until Israel once again, became a nation, and/or controled Jerusalem. Some still can not occur until the Sanhedrin rebuilts the Temple.

To think otherwise is assinine.

Again, this is just more anthropomorphizing of social and moral concepts, and a stale holdover from Zoroastrian theology. Nobody with any degree of sophistication in their understanding of religion, and Christianity in particular, takes the stuff seriously, although it does have an appeal to childish, unsophisticated boneheads (Southern Baptist types come to mind), who never read the Bible and who think of this stuff on the level of a Marvel Comic.

But this expression explains your confusion. Your just ignorant, of what God's Word does say, much like those who never read the Bible, and think of this stuff on the level of a Marvel Comic.

But alas, thats your Free Will, to opt for such understanding.

Ciao

Shane