Fun and games with UK's big brother

@ nefermore

If I offended you by including you as the recipient of my message as a reply to strangerous, my apologies - of course it is your right to disagree, I guess I just got so offended with the ludicrous aspersions he was casting at me by way of argument that when you agreed so vociferously with him I had forgotten I had addressed the reply to you in my concentration in answering him. For that, I DO apologise.

However, your contention that I am "playing racial stereotypes" is wrong - I do not walk onto the train every day with the express intention of amusing myself by frightening others (if you knew me better you would see how ridiculous that is!), that is how strangerous was portraying me and it is categorically not who I am. I merely stated in a brief paragraph, a bit of levity in a rather long diatribe, with some comic licence that it amuses me that such stereotypes EXIST in a population as supposedly savvy as that of London. Consider it my way of dealing with all the suspicious looks, the whispered insults and discrimination I have to deal with at the hands of people daily on the underground.

Again, It was not my intention to in any way put myself forward as he who has the whole truth - such a thing does not exist in my opinion - but I'm pretty sure that in my original post I stated clearly that "given the available evidence it is my belief that" a cabal of this government was involved - I never claimed it as gospel truth. As I have said, since I plan to contribute to this site as much as I can, I'm probably going to write a short piece summarising what I believe to be the loopholes in the official story and the indications that there was more to the event. I NEVER said I could PROVE it was an inside job, but I do say that there is enough evidence and indications to cast severe doubts on the official story. And I have never expressed my opinions as anything other than just that, my OPINIONS. I didn't think that in a community as well informed and (on average) as seemingly intelligent as this the demarcation between my opinion and stated fact would have to me made at EVERY point, the context speaks for itself.

"What does the world owe you for the priviledge of your company exactly? And how do we pay you?

Must we all agree with you? If we did, wouldn't that make you as totalitarian as the society you seem to percieve?"

I never made any allusions to my being special or anything like that - read back over my posts and see if I did - and frankly I'm a bit puzzled how you came to that conclusion about my character being so egotistical. I like you, defend everyone's right to have their opinion - that's just a given for any civilised person - what I will NOT defend is the right of a person to slur me because they cant argue with me and then to have the gall to demand an APOLOGY for it.

"Your background doesn't interest me. Your education doesn't interest me.

But your attitude does though. It bothers me. It bothers me because I'm just a normal guy and you seem to be looking for something that none of us are ever going to get, which is a perfect society that runs exactly to our own needs. "

My "attitude" is and has always been that human beings are capable and ready to live without tyranny, without the necessity for lies from our governments of such large a scale, and that the human condition can be improved no end with just the facts available at our disposal and an effort made by all to educate themselves and others so as to set the groundwork for the necessary paradigm shifts to occur to improve our lot for the better. I am not "looking" for anything, other than to learn more about my world and to share my thoughts with others and learn from them. The word "perfect" is fallacious when applied to any individual, and infinitely more fallacious when applied to a society - I'm not looking to usher in a perfect society my friend, and I, believe it or not, am just a "normal" guy too, just like you.

Hey, fulcanelli -

Just hit the 'Quote' button next to a person's post and edit it to what you want, you get it in a nice pretty box then

Thanks for the advice, delta alter - could you tell me how I quote multiple people in the same post? Would be very helpful!

erm...now you're stretching me

You're best off posting a question in the Freshman's Forum, some of the good guys there will help you out.

Anyway, glad the battering that you have had on your first ever post hasn't put you off

I think you've been pretty unlucky to be honest, I bet most of the people here actually understand what you are trying to say - and don't just make blind assumptions

No probs, delta alter, thanks for the support and the link. And hey, what's the point of posting something in a discussion forum if you can't butt heads with those who ask for it from time to time? No, I've thoroughly enjoyed my first day here, in no small part thanks to strangerous

Aiding and abetting terrorism

Having read your accounts of “ fun on the underground “

Every time you play your puerile little game you make fellow travelers feel less safe , even afraid – and yet you still do it

Maybe I should just call you a terrorist – all be it one who hasn’t got the guts to go all the way

Also the ones who watch you and wonder , what if they are cowed when you prove not to be a real threat , just some wannabe . you sow the seeds of doubt that makes them afraid of “ crying wolf “ , and puts the element of uncertainty in their mind

Uncertainty that can be fatal in a real emergency – well done

Lastly , every one who is looking at you , indulging in your private wankfest , is distracted from other possibly more serious threats

Even mundane threats like a platform edge or door can be made more hazardous by idiots like you deliberately distracting people

I have had to deal with idiots like you who play silly buggers just to get a rise and put me and my mates on edge – and provoke a response they can then claim was “ army brutality “

Asshats who pretend to be armed , but are not so that if they attract a response they would be martyrs

And I fecking hated the bastards – now I no longer take it personally , and you are 295 miles from me , so I don’t have a vested interest

But I do feel pity for the people who have to interact with you on a day to day basis , and are at the sharp end of your childish stupidity .

The level of maturity your subway stunt demonstrates Speaks volumes about your over all attitude and modus operandi

If that is how you behave in public , what were you ACTUALLY going to deliver during your presentation that you claim was stifled by the UCL faculty ? if they have had a chance to see you “ at work “ over the course of your studies – maybe they have got the measure of you – and were right to deny you a soap box

BTW – have you actually presented your so called evidence anywhere , now the UCL has refused you a platform ? or would that actually involve some effort of your part – without the reward of a captive audience ??

We only have your word that U.C.L. stifled you in a capricious act of censorship . if you felt so strongly about this issue – why havnt you done something , or were you just grandstanding , as you are now ?

Originally posted by Delta Alter

Originally posted by Strangerous
Yeah you're right - taking an alarm clock and a few spare wires with you when you travel by air, wearing a gas mask on the tube, setting up a bacon butty van near a Mosque are all just 'having a laugh' too - right?

That is just ridiculous. Seriously.

No it's not - these are precisely the sort of things people do in the name of 'having a laugh' when all they're doing is amusing themselves at the expense of others' peace of mind. I'd never condone these acts any more than I would someone delighting in causing discomfort and alarm on the Tube.

Tolerant societies are built on the respect shown by all for everyone else - it's the responsibility of all to follow these principles - whatever their colour, religion, sexual orientation, etc etc etc - no-one has special rights

fulcanelli you really need to pay more attention to what people say - including yourself. You also need to temper your language and reserve your 'racist' tags for people who really are.

I'm not letting that undeserved slur stand

I am certainly not a racist - if I was I'd probably be the only one with a Muslim girlfriend of Pakistani descent!

All I did was criticise your attitude, your actions and your overall slagging of my country. If you can't answer those points directly and provide any evidence for your outrageous then perhps you should just keep quiet rather than hurling accusations around.

As I said if you don't like the UK then you (like us all) can leave anytime.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
to garner support from the British public for involvement in further costly aggression in the Middle East,
to instill in the public a climate of fear and distrust (of Muslims in general and middle-easterners in particular),
and to thereby make the population more amenable to the construction of a surveillance society and the voluntary waiving
of their privacy, civil rights and powers of dissent, all with an eventual view to the incremental imposition of outright
totalitarian control and government oversight of every aspect of society and the complete subjugation of every individual
to the state.

I believe the one of the reasons that the whole Gulf War then later the current War in Iraq did/has occurred is the the
British stance against "outright totalitarian control and the complete subjugation of every individual to the state."

Thus i believe the actions and future intentions of the British government is not "outright totalitarian control and
government oversight of every aspect of society" but instead the safe, well being of the public.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
This made a lot more sense to me when I did a little digging and found that many of the member universities of the
University Of London invest in the international arms industry, UCL (my university) being one of the heaviest investors.

Would you care to provide this discussion with proof of these claims of so called arms dealing of any British university.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
And of course, the state controlled television media, being bound by Law in the United Kingdom (the so-called "Official
Secrets Act") not to disclose details of anything their Government owners don't want disclosed (even to the people whose
taxes - amounting to over 100 pounds per year for the privilege of having access to these sickening propaganda organs -
fund their very existence! What a #ing outrage! The only supposedly democratic free country (hah! chance would be a
fine thing) in the world to charge a LICENCE fee to own a television and the only such country whose government OPENLY
ENACTS LAWS that censor its content, preventing even the DISCUSSION of such censorship!), earned their pay and completely
whitewashed the event for the benefit of the public (including the supposedly "independant" television networks in this
country, who are also bound by this legislation),

We already gone over this point, but i will recap: This comment shows either: your level of ignorance or a level of a
"brainwashed attitude". This isn't the only country to charge a fee for a public service.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
And the sickening cherry on this steaming *SNIP was that much of the dumbed down, binge drinking, obese, illiterate
and just generally *SNIP* brain-dead barely human denizens of this jaded island lapped it up and swallowed this steaming
PR horse# whole with a big, gap-toothed smile.

Way to go! Insult the British public - This again highlights your views and intents.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
Until recently, purely for my own personal entertainment, I had taken to growing a beard and fumbling with my bag while
on the train, taking special care to be sitting in amongst and make eye contact with the pinstriped yuppies, until the
novelty of finally securing my own seat with BOTH armrests had worn off and the frightened looks on the faces of these
sleepwalking, gibbering automatons lost its mirth value.

You openly admit to at least once praying on the scared nature of the public at a time of mass histerior after a bombing
attack which didn't discriminate on its victims. Your opinions are that this was an "inside job" - i cannot see why a
government would want to kill its own public and create mass panic.

cont...

[edit on 19/6/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by fulcanelli
London, as I'm sure by now most members here are aware, is the most watched city in the WORLD - millions of surveillance cameras linked into a

network of computers with biometric facial/body/movement recognition, behaviour pattern analysis and tracking software,

Seems like its working ok to, countess crimes / murders solved, robbers caught, terror plots foiled, terrorists captured.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
building a national database containing comprehensive biometric data on all its citizens (gained through warrantless police searches and arrests of
tens of thousands of innocent people including several hundred CHILDREN under 16 years of age under the new "anti-terror" legislation

If you are not suspected of any anti-terror related activity then you wont be on this database that you talk of, unfortunately you must not be
aware of the police database where any dealings with the police gives you a named entry on their database, if your dealings require, finger prints will
be taken, if your dealings are more severe then fingerprints and dna will be taken. If you get caught drink driving you will be asked to give a urine
sample or even blood if you refuse. Seems pretty normal to me, I even bet other countries do this too!

Originally posted by fulcanelli
99.99% of these cases not leading to formal charges of any kind being leveled

Please provide proof of this.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
- as well as restructuring of application procedures for such things as passports to require mandatory fingerprinting & biometric face
scanning,

What you say is simply not true, the passport application needs to be tightened up as there are so many fraudulent passports / passport
applications, they are far to easily doctored / faked. If a form of biometric identification is required and a law is passed by democratic vote then it
will become mandatory.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
combating this illusory terrorist threat from Al-CIA-da

Are you insinuating that the CIA is or is linked to a Terrorist organisiation - or is this another opinion of yours?

Originally posted by fulcanelli
identities, movements, activities and even the mental and emotional states of every single one of us are tracked and recorded at all times whether in
or out of a vehicle or building,

Simply not true, in major cities yes, elsewhere, certainly not. Also "mental and emotional states", these are fantastic cameras aren't they!

Originally posted by fulcanelli
record all your mobile 'phone and landline calls the second you use a "keyword", and send them to those lovely folks at the NSA over in "Crypto City"

I think its true to say that the telecom provider logs all calls from phones and would only divulge a logs or logs to an intelligence agency if specific
requests are made by police.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
across the pond so they can analyse your calls, spend $50,000 (on average)

Source? Proof?

Originally posted by fulcanelli
datamining and profiling you to decide whether to ask MI6 to kidnap you, stick you on an unchartered "extraordinary rendition" flight to an Egyptian
or Israeli dungeon so their CIA trained "interrogators" can find out how much of a threat you really are to the establishment without running into
trouble from any pesky "human rights" laws.

Again where is your evidence?

cont...

[edit on 19/6/06 by ISJ]

Originally posted by fulcanelli
I have taken recently to routinely ending all my 'phone calls by the string of words, carefully enunciated for all listening parties, "president bush
murder kill bomb terrorist al-qaeda osama nuclear passport jihad bush kill blair die infidel hello there, ECHELON!", just so I know my calls get that
special, PERSONAL attention).

Deliberatly making a nuisance of yourself, i thought it cost $50,000 for each investigation, would that come out of your taxes?

Originally posted by fulcanelli
Hey, if we ALL ended our calls with that, we'd only be paying a fraction more on our 'phone bills and it would cause some quite comic and well
deserved headaches for our overlords,

Why dont you just record it to mp3 then hit playback at the end of the conversation, i'd forget about at least one of them words, wouldn't want one
of "our overlords" to miss it.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
Another idea to perhaps throw a few monkeywrenches in the cogs of the machine would be for all UK citizens to demand all footage and images
taken of them by all surveillance cameras owned and/or operated by the governement and its contracted ancillaries under the FOIA

Ahh now I believe that the vast majority of CCTV cameras are privately owned, e.g. shops, petrol stations and other retail establishments, where
they would not release cctv footage, i also believe that the footage is owned by the recorder and the subject cannot claim the rights to it unless
either a certain time period has passed, or is not required by the police for investigative reasons.

If you want your footage, then I guess if you ask enough times you will get it but i suspect footage that does not contain any infractions of the law
is simply wiped over after a certain period of time.

And while your on about the Freedom Of Information Act, this act works against the Official Secrets Act you previously mentioned, whereby official
documents/secrets have to be made publis after a certain period of time - i guess you must of forgot that bit.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
opps - profanity

My sincerest apologies for having unwittingly broken the rulesand for anyone I may have offended, and may I offer to the moderators my assurance

that I shall not be so lax with my language in the future.

So you didn't read and understand the rules when joining the site, instead you had to be picked up on it after several times using profanity in your
"spirted writings".

Originally posted by fulcanelli
I believe anarchism could well provide at least part of the makings of the required paradigm shift necessary to bring the collective situation of the
human race to sanity.

Interesting.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
@ Strangerous

You have somehow extrapolated from what I have said the impression that I in some way hate living in this country. I am careful with my words -
look carefully and you will see that nowhere have I made that assertion

You seem to want to leave, (see quote below) surely that means you are at least un-happy living in this country of ours.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
I can empathise with your exit from this island - the thought has been a recurring one in my mind also, and becomes more naggingly persistent by
the say, unfortunately. I guess I'm just playing the game until I can engineer the optimum circumstances for my own relocation.

cont...

[edit on 19/6/06 by ISJ]

Originally posted by fulcanelli
I am a daily traveller on the London Underground and daily face the same "threat" alongside the poor morons who think this threat is contained in
my bag, added to which I also face racism and victimisation by the police who clearly share your criteria for the identification of a bomber.

Unfortunately, those "poor morons" (fellow British public and possibly warey foreign visitors) only show a human reaction to a current issue.

If there was a white male aged 45-65 you wouldn't want them offering your young child a sweet, or if you were in a pub a few decades back and
blantantly irish nationalists walked in you would of isplayed the same actions.

Originally posted by fulcanelli
you have both revealed the depths of both your conditioning and your ignorance. Watch this space, my crypto-racist friends, I intend to educate

you in times to come.

You have revealed your single sighted views and will not attempt to see or respect other people's opinions, instead you have to resort to putting
people down with your "sprted views"

Right thats part one of "my education to you" (thats sarcasim btw) over, part 2 will follow so stay tuned my friend.


[edit on 19/6/06 by ISJ]

You have voted ISJ for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Hi All, hi Ful

Having been an avid reader of this site for over a year, yours is the first post I have felt compelled to respond to.

Your thread title is pretty inflamattory, whch brings up my first question; "Fun and Games"? Do consider growing a beard and "fidddling" with your rucksack on a packed rush hour tube to be fun and games? If so, what are you achieving, and at what cost to yourself and others with "dark skin and beards"

Originally posted by fulcanelli
Firtsly, I have taken recently to routinely ending all my 'phone calls by the string of words, carefully enunciated for all listening parties, "president bush murder kill bomb terrorist al-qaeda osama nuclear passport jihad bush kill blair die infidel hello there, ECHELON!"

(sorry, will work on my posting etiquette).

Forgive me if I missed your point but apart from being annoyed at having to pay £120 for watching the BBC (you don't have to pay just for owning a TV, (yeah right prove it.. what.. a radio as well??..damn there goes my student loan) what are you trying to say??

People ain't gonna change, these day instead of having quiet russians pointing nukes at us we have a very vocal (albeit basterdised) religion inciting hatred within our own cities (entirely within their own rights in the most democratic country on the planet atm; something I know is gonna change within my own lifetime) with people too scared and/or stupid to question it.
The lowest common denominator (being stupid white trash . ie. 65% of the UK) is gonna panic and tell their kids "dont trust them brown people, especially the ones wearing shoes".

Sorry rambled a bit there, but my point is your time would be better spent dispelling the frightened media view instead of perpetuating it for your own amusement.

Mod Edit: Fixed Quotes.
Oh, and welcome to ATS.






[edit on 19/6/2006 by Mirthful Me]

LOL you are all taking fulcanellis' 'fun and games' comments way too literally and out of context...

If you have ever been the victim of prejudice you would know exactly what he means by his statement. Obviously you haven't

What fulcanelli is saying is so on the mark. This is one of the most interesting threads here in a long time. All you are doing is proving his point...

But I guess if you have bought the govs fear tactics as gospel, then why should I expect you to see any other reality

Paint your face black, grow a beard and walk around with a back-pack for a while and I think you will be shocked to your core...It's such a warm cosy feeling to have everyone staring at you, thinking wild assumptions about what you are doing. How would you feel, what would you do? Get a clue!

Again for those who don't quite get it - everyone was regarded suspiciously after the bombs. If you wear a rucsac you'll get suspicious looks - if you're a dumb tourist and leave your bag and go and sit down you'll get spoken to and someone may tell you what they think of such stupidity.

It's not (and never was) restricted to people of colour apart from in the original poster's mind - but he sees everything as a race issue, it justifies his own prejudices.

Delighting in causing fear & discomfort is way beyond unavoidable suspiciousness / plain stupidity.

And yes I've been on the end of prejudice but I don't think ALL muslims will threaten to kill me & burn down my house, just because I'm going out with their sister. I don't think all Southerners think I'm thick because I'm from the North. etc etc etc.

Originally posted by Strangerous
Again for those who don't quite get it - everyone was regarded suspiciously after the bombs.

You are trying to tell me white people were looked at just as suspicously as Middle Eastern looking people? C'mon what world do you live in?

A world where we get the Tube - I was here - were you?

I suspect not.

Quite how you can be so certain what the reaction of commuters was / still is from wherever you are is quite beyond me.

Ever heard of a white muslim? or an Irish terrorist?

I don't have to have been there to know how people react. People are very predictable.

I was there during the IRA rein of terror, and I don't remember anybody being suspicious of me on the tube carrying a back pack. I'm white btw. But people have always been nervous and suspicious about ppl who are none-whites, regardless of any bombings. That's why we have racism, fear of the unknown, suspicion of anything or anybody different to us.

Police, who were on the hunt for people behind the attempted bombings of three subway trains and a bus in London on July 21, became suspicious of Menezes on July 22 and followed him.

www.cbc.ca...

Why do you think they became suspicious? Was he the only man with a bag running for a train that day, I doubt it. If he was white he more than likely would not have been deemed so suspicious. He ended up getting shot 7 times, was he 'having fun with big brother'? I don't think so...Turns out he wasn't a 'suspect' at all, was he?

As much as people deny they're prejudice, it's so deep rooted in society people don't even realize when they are 'racial profiling'...

And it's not just Muslim looking people with bags and beards. How many ppl get nervous when alone with a strange black man, or someone who dresses different?...
Our perceptions of people is fueled by stereotyping in the media.

You are white middle class and conservative, aren't you? I'm afraid you give yourself away with every post. You have no clue what it's like to be the center of negative attention, or how you would respond...

My my, what a hornet's nest I appear to hae stirred!

Having just woken up and read with some amusement the comments made unendingly by my detractors, it strikes me as rather telling to think that every one of them, to a man/woman, is deliberately misrepresenting me and putting their own words in my mouth. So be it, if that's the best you can do, it's below laughable and doesn't deserve any more of a response from me than strangerous does after having destroyed him so utterly yesterday.

In response, I would direct the attention of the neutral observer to WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN. I have made no racist slur towards anyone - the doubletalk contending that I have appears to be the final refuge of personal attack removed who don't appear to know the difference between an argument and a proof, comic licence and serious presentation of facts, and require big flashing red letters to indicate to them in no uncertain terms where the author is expressing his opinion and where a fact is being presented.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

Every time you play your puerile little game you make fellow travelers feel less safe , even afraid – and yet you still do it

Maybe I should just call you a terrorist – all be it one who hasn’t got the guts to go all the way

Again to you, ignorant ape, I say the same as I have said umpteen times to strangerous - if you consider my being brown, bearded and reaching into my bag to get items out constitutes my pretending to be a bomber, then YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY BEEN CONDITIONED TO VIEW ALL PEOPLE WHO ARE BROWN, HAVE BEARDS AND CARRY SMALL RUCKSACKS ARE BOMBERS, and that conditioning is shining through here for all to see. If you can fault that logic, then do so - but you, like strangerous, can't, because you, like strangerous, YOU HAVE DEFINED BY YOUR OWN RESPONSE TO A DELIBERATELY POINTED PARAGRAPH YOURSELF AS PREJUDICED. Well done, and thank you for not requiring me to expend any effort in invalidating anything you say.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

BTW – have you actually presented your so called evidence anywhere , now the UCL has refused you a platform ? or would that actually involve some effort of your part – without the reward of a captive audience ??

We only have your word that U.C.L. stifled you in a capricious act of censorship . if you felt so strongly about this issue – why havnt you done something , or were you just grandstanding , as you are now ?

Your having to fall back onto this is weak, my friend. It appears that you, like strangerous, insist on casting aspersions on my character and making every effort not to speak to my arguments or facts. I have already had to deal with strangerous' allusions to my family being nothing but freebie seeking asylum seekers, MY being racist (what an outrage!) and details concerning the time I and my family have spent here, none of which have the LEAST THING to do with any of the issues I have raised. I was courteous enough even to answer these points and knock them down one by one. Your desperation in all but calling me a liar proves that you are, very much, a person with strangerous' proclivities - how would you have me respond, APE? would you like me to go to my faculty and have them explain to you here what transpired? What in your limited mind would constitute PROOF anyway, for anything you DONT WANT TO BELIEVE? And for your information, IGNORANT_ape, I have done far more to spread the word on what I know than you seem to in attacking those who do try to educate themselves and others, and your having to focus on incosequentials in my original post for your attack is proof positive for anyone here with a brain that you lack the ability to fault it on anything else.

I am under no obligation to justify my life or actions to the likes of you, and it's disgusting that you actually BELIEVE you deserve answer to your drivel. Post all you want. Please. You're doing me a favour.

Fulcanelli

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

Mod Edit: Fixed Quote.

[edit on 20/6/2006 by Mirthful Me]