Can't see what you don't believe?

Recently I watched a program on Quantam Mechanics. One theory was that the mind isn't cable of seeing what it doesn't believe exists.

As example, when Columbus sailed into the "New World" and anchored his ships, in plain sight, the natives were unable to see them.

The point being since their minds had never even imagined that such things as the strande existed, their minds couldn't proceess this data into sight.

But after one highly respected native noted the water's unexplained ripples and studtied them for many hour, the ships came into focus. Eventually after telling the others, every one could see them.

Maybe this is why some people see UFOs, ghosts etc and others don't

What the Bleep? Quite a movie this one

It would be reason why small children and back woods cultures are more spiritual in their nature... the world hasn't taught them what is or isn't true yet.

Originally posted by AngelaLadyS
It would be reason why small children and back woods cultures are more spiritual in their nature... the world hasn't taught them what is or isn't true yet.

To be fair, I'd also add 'vice versa'.. Remember, the popular science of yester-year thought the world was flat. 'Facts' must remain malleable, because we simply can't know everything. (And frankly, I don't think we're meant to...)

However, this topic brings to mind the question of 'Is seeing truly believing?' People believe in angels, yet we've no physical proof of it. Same with black holes.. we think we know they're there...

I know that if you convince yourself that, for example, you don't/can't see ghosts, you won't. Mind over matter. So can we thus convince ourselves that we can see everything and anything? (don't know if we'd want to, but just postulating...)

I've never heard about the Native Americans not seeing the ships. Makes sense, I guess. But, why then did the sailors see, for example, the native's teepees if they had not ever thought of or seen them before? (...think I got my geography mixed up, but the point still meagerly stands.)

Excellent question tho.. Makes me wonder what I'm not seeing.. (darned meatsack eyes!)

That movie is full of bs. First of all there is no record of natives not being able to see Columbus´ ships. Then, most of the "scientists" that appear on the movie are from pseudosciencies or just plain new-age lovers.
For example, the water experiments done by a japanese doctor are completely fake, the "doctor" studied arts and communication, later recieved as alternative medicine doctor (1 year program) in India.

This "documentary" just to spread the new-age thinking supossedly based on quantum mechanics.

[edit on 18-6-2006 by Zeratul]

[edit on 18-6-2006 by Zeratul]

How do you know that there is no record of the Natives not seeing Columbus' ships? What makes you an expert on the validity of the program's context?

Originally posted by Diseria

I've never heard about the Native Americans not seeing the ships. Makes sense, I guess. But, why then did the sailors see, for example, the native's teepees if they had not ever thought of or seen them before? (...think I got my geography mixed up, but the point still meagerly stands.)

OK, i'm not getting into this as part of the main topic cause personally i think its BS.
BUT just to give a reason why The Indians couldn't see and Columbus could is because Columbus was open to new lands and new peoples so its not that he disbelieved they existed, the Indians on the other hand, they had not travelled across the ocean they were not expecting anything as they believed their Earth(America and such) was the only one.

If our mind can't see what we don't believe, then how as we come into existence do we see so much and learn to understand it. Or about learning new things. You don't have to believe it exists for it to exist.

That's reality for you.

On a related note, I have often wondered 'If enough people believe something to be true, does whatever it is physically manifest itself'?

Look at the world of religion, enough people believe it to be true but how often is God there or how often does he appear/Jesus.

Originally posted by Masisoar
Look at the world of religion, enough people believe it to be true but how often is God there or how often does he appear/Jesus.

If only we all believed in the same 'Jesus', or equivalent!

Originally posted by dollmonster
How do you know that there is no record of the Natives not seeing Columbus' ships? What makes you an expert on the validity of the program's context?

Fact -> there isnt evidence of natives not seeing Columbus´ships.

Assumption -> what if there exists?

The assumption is based on a movie supported by pseudoscientists involved in the new-age movement, wich is another bigger and better organized assumption. An assumption based on another set of assumptions isnt a fact, therefore the natives saw Columbus´ships because there is no record saying they didnt.

I´m not and expert.

I stopped watching the movie after the part about the Native Americans not being able to see the European ships. This story is simply absurd and the fact that a few of you bought it almost makes me sad. Reflected light waves in visible spectrum + eye = sight.

" the natives were unable to see them "

what a crock of crap !!!!!

must be new think speak. lol

plenty of things I never seen before,

but was able to see them,

with adequate lighting. sheesh !

[ now knowing wtf I was looking at is/was another matter ] lol



bullcrap and brainwashing is what that show was about

and testing people to see what they'll believe !!!!!

I think this movie was great.
I also think it is true.
Heres proof....

Try and imagine a new color, I dont mean mixing cyan or yellow or black or something like that. I mean imagine a completly new color. One that has never been seen. You cant and wont, only reason is you havnt seen it yet.

Originally posted by imbalanced
I also think it is true.
Heres proof....

Try and imagine a new color, I dont mean mixing cyan or yellow or black or something like that. I mean imagine a completly new color. One that has never been seen. You cant and wont, only reason is you havnt seen it yet.

OK, true. You don't know what you don't know, until you know what you don't know.

But this is something completely different. Each and every one of us was born with a "clean slate", i.e. we had no references as babies, and haven't seen anything. This theory suggests that every time we see something for the first time, we can't see it?! So for our first couple of days, weeks and/or months of our lives, we didn't see a thing? And we could only "see" something once we could measure it against something in our field of reference? But this is a catch 22, because if we had no references to start off, then we could not create and learn new references.

Complete and utter nonsense!

Imagine something you saw for the first time... Like cellphones (Mobile phones for the British folks )... Cellphones were more or less not there before most of us were born. So the first time you saw a cellphone... Did you actually see it, or was it just empty space? No you saw it. You see new "references" on a daily basis... And yes you actually SEE them!

It's no secret that your mind and eyes can play tricks on you. You can easily see something that is not there. Optical illusions. Easy. But NOT see something that is in clear sight is a different story. Maybe the natives just needed glasses? A good optometrist, perhaps?

well you can imagin a new color cos all the colors are already imagined....

You can do that with an animal though and maybe ...maybe if enough people think same the amil will be found.

There was a nice T-Rex discuh a few believers that were thinking/convinced that T-rex wasnt a Carnivor...cos he just didnt have the right hands/claws for it. compared to the rest of the anmals.

So we kinda think up how the creature looks like then we find a sceleton and our mind and fantasy fills in the gaps.

Like sometimes seeing a shadow you think its a demon...but it is just some reflexion....(i'm not saying that demons or such dont exist though)

Originally posted by Gemwolf
...
..
So the first time you saw a cellphone... Did you actually see it, or was it just empty space? No you saw it. You see new "references" on a daily basis... And yes you actually SEE them!

Are you sure you saw it? Or did your mother tell you what is there, because she believed it was there, because her mother told her so and all the people believed it was so?
The first thing when you are brought to the world is your parents talking to you -saying: "look, this is a ball", "That's a cat, look it has pointy ears and its all furry. Touch it, can you feel how soft and hairy it is? YES you caaan.."
They ain't gonna stop till you recognize what stuff is.

Originally posted by Urizen

Originally posted by Gemwolf
...
..
So the first time you saw a cellphone... Did you actually see it, or was it just empty space?

Are you sure you saw it? Or did your mother tell you what is there, because she believed it was there, because her mother told her so and all the people believed it was so?

They ain't gonna stop till you recognize what stuff is.

I used cellphones as an example for a good reason. Because mom and dad wasn't there to tell you what it is... Let's put it easier. If you were to be taken into a room (as an adult - no mommy and daddy present) and you were all alone with no-one to guide you... There is something in the room you have never ever seen in your life and you have no points of reference (past experience and knowledge) similiar to that object, would you still see the object? Of course you would. It's really not that hard to explain away. You see new things every day, and in many cases you are left to your own device to recognize it, or to make something from it... Point is you still see it without mommy and daddy's help.

hmm I watched this documentry and had the impresion it was trying to recruit me into a religion by talking about science most people have no clue about. As for not been able to see the ships.. how would they know that? I mean I'm sure columbus coudlen't talk to the natives for quite some time. How did they know the natives mearly didn't know how to react?


A few years ago I had an elderly relative that hadn't been in contact with any more modern technolagy than a 20year old tv. When I showed him a mobile phone he saw it and was baffled, unsure what it did. But after about 5mins of explaining he understood its functions and how it worked and was no longer confused by it. I see that as another example of there theory been bs.

[edit on 23-6-2006 by kipman725]