Children deliberately given virus

You call Golemina rude? You are rude miss. In this post I have quoted...you are no longer talking about theory or about some made up scenario. You are talking about MY CHILD....and you have a lot of nerve to make any of these statements regarding my child. I honestly don't know who you think you are....to sit there on your high horse and make statements about my child being mis-diagnosed or that sleeplessness is not a symptom of my child's disease?

Please reread my post about your child's ADHD. I asked purely medical questions regarding the possible misdiagnosis, which is common in children who supposedly have ADHD. I was simply suggesting that perhaps your child is in that group of misdiagnosed children in the ADHD bunch. I also stated that I have not seen your child's charts and could not make a diagnosis of my own. Also, for the record, I AM out of school, I'm starting my first clinical residency term when I return homr to Firenze from DC in August.

Ciao =)
Mariella

Originally posted by FatherLukeDuke
[Actually the diagnostic criteria stayed them same throughout the 10 year study (87-97), so the numbers arecomparable from year to year:

i was referring to www.abovetopsecret.com... an alledged change in criteria in 1993, if this particular study doesn't rely on 3rd party data using the new test, you are of course, right.

The main difference between the US and Japan still remains, while autism dropped in Japan after 1994, it's still on the rise in the west if i'm not mistaken. Since the graph has a delay of up to 7 years, something must have happened in the 80s/early 90s, right?

I agree with the parents who refused to allow their children to be vaccinated. My father was very, very anti vaccinations and we were only allowed to have the polio vaccine as children. We all (5 kids!) got measle, mumps, whooping cough, german measles and chicken pox at various times in our childhood and a healthier bunch of adults you will be hard-pressed to find! Each autumn, I refuse to have the 'flu vaccination like the rest of the "sheep" and manage to keep myself relatively healthy throughout the year (a little bit of echinacea is all that's needed). I also have a "healthy disrespect" for the "conventional medical profession" and prefer to follow alternative methods. However, this can (and does) get taken a bit far sometimes. I can understand the frustration and anger of a parent who gets shunted from pillar to post, each "medical expert" giving a different opinion and the batteries upon batteries of tests that these experts say are necessary to find out what the problem is only to discover that, no matter how many needles are stuck in your arm, in your spine or elsewhere, these selfsame experts remain clueless! I have a similar situation with my husband - five years of extreme pain and suffering only to have them lop his leg off last week!

Originally posted by LovingSoul

I agree with the parents who refused to allow their children to be vaccinated. My father was very, very anti vaccinations and we were only allowed to have the polio vaccine as children. We all (5 kids!) got measle, mumps, whooping cough, german measles and chicken pox at various times in our childhood and a healthier bunch of adults you will be hard-pressed to find! Each autumn, I refuse to have the 'flu vaccination like the rest of the "sheep" and manage to keep myself relatively healthy throughout the year (a little bit of echinacea is all that's needed). I also have a "healthy disrespect"

for the "conventional medical profession" and prefer to follow alternative methods. However, this can (and does) get taken a bit far sometimes. I can understand the frustration and anger of a parent who gets shunted from pillar to post, each "medical expert" giving a different opinion and the batteries upon batteries of tests that these experts say are necessary to find out what the problem is only to discover that, no matter how many needles are stuck in your arm, in your spine or elsewhere, these selfsame experts remain clueless! I have a similar situation with my husband - five years of extreme pain and suffering only to have them lop his leg off last week!

What about tetanus? And smallpox?

It's a little ignorant to say that doctor's are "clueless" just because they run a battery of tests. Believe it or not, medicine is a science, and science's always change. No doctor can honesdtly tell you they know every single thing about the human body, and if one tells you that, run. We have to run tests because we can't just eyeball a person and say "Oh, yes, clearly you have an clostridium infection and are slowly becoming septic based on your creatinine levels." That's what tests are for. Blood gas, WBC, etc. . Also, as far as "seeking alternative care", where do you draw the line? At what point do you realize that alternative methods won't help heal, for instance, MRSA infections or certain viral infections? Just curious.

Mariella

Originally posted by Long Lance
i was referring to www.abovetopsecret.com... an alledged change in criteria in 1993, if this particular study doesn't rely on 3rd party data using the new test, you are of course, right.

I think you may have misunderstood (or maybe I have). There wasn't a change in criteria during the study, however they were tracking Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) as well as "full" regressive autism, but using the same criteria for both diagnoses throughout the study.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Kids have been deliberately infected with this deadly virus.

Horror in Harrow.

some parents are total psychos.

And some arnt. Ellen Bolte is a mother of an autistic child whose idea spearheaded a study in Chicago.

Antibiotics yield 'dramatic' autism benefits

Some autistic children given a dose of antibiotics enjoyed a marked short-term improvement, say US scientists.

Only a small number of children were treated, all of whom had been found to have a particular type of bacterium colonising their guts. These bacteria produces a toxin which scientists theorised might be affecting their brains.

"Seeing most of these children apparently improve significantly was very exciting.

"The next step, besides repeating clinical studies, is to go to the lab and try and find out why these effects may have been observed."

Unfortunately, once the treatment stopped, the symptoms reasserted themselves.

Another source

Originally posted by bsl4doc

What about tetanus? And smallpox?

It's a little ignorant to say that doctor's are "clueless" just because they run a battery of tests. Believe it or not, medicine is a science, and science's always change. No doctor can honesdtly tell you they know every single thing about the human body, and if one tells you that, run. We have to run tests because we can't just eyeball a person and say "Oh, yes, clearly you have an clostridium infection and are slowly becoming septic based on your creatinine levels." That's what tests are for. Blood gas, WBC, etc. . Also, as far as "seeking alternative care", where do you draw the line? At what point do you realize that alternative methods won't help heal, for instance, MRSA infections or certain viral infections? Just curious.

Mariella

I was merely expressing my opinion, gained from my experience with the medical profession, and I did say that alternative remedies are not always the best option. However, I do believe that alternative remedies can help with almost any ailment that does not require surgery. My father is a herbalist and you will be amazed at how many of his patients have come to him as "a last resort" because the doctors have been poking, prodding and testing them for years without being able to resolve their problem. Also, doctors tend to treat the symptom and not the cause (I'm speaking generally about your local GP and not specialists) whereas a good herbalist or natural medicine practitioner should look at the person as a whole, including their state of mind, before treating the person.
I do not want to come across as a "doctor hater" or anything so severe. I have had the unfortunate experience of medical doctors making a complete mess of someone I love and then just sitting back and saying "Oh well, we tried". This is not good enough. And don't even try to get a doctor to testify to the absolute cock-up that another doctor has made because you won't find one - they all stick up for each other and the poor patients must just grin and bear it! The doctors here (at the "best" orthopaedic hospital) messed my husband up so badly that he very nearly died. They had to give him 8 pints of blood as a previous doctor had not bothered to stop the bleeding from one of his wounds before transporting him to another hospital which meant that, when the ambulance arrived after a 2 hour journey at about 20 km/h (he had a broken back as well) and they took the gurney out of the back of the ambulance, the blood flowed like a waterfall off the gurney onto the ground. They then left him lying in the passage on a gurney for almost 3 hours before he was taken into theatre. He was in theatre for 6 hours during which time they had to knock a pin into his femur to fix the 2 breaks only to break it again as the pin they used was too big for his femur and ended up splitting the bone lengthways. They then put a pin in his humerus and used bolts that were too long and which eventually wore a groove into his shoulder socket. They also did not diagnose a broken ankle so it was never fixed properly and they neglected to tell us that his arm would be paralysed. They had to put a plate into his right wrist and, in the process, ended up breaking the tap off in the bone. Now, five years later, they have amputated his leg. Shall I go on?

If you reread Bsl4doc's post (thank you for your response ), she's basically confirming my contention that the SOP in diagnosing 'autism' is STILL just observations and matching up symptoms from a published list of typical symptoms such as is found in the DSM-IV (or the Italian equivalent? ).

You could have said Bls4doc... Hey! Yes, golem was right.

The point is that the fact that there isn't a 'test' for diagnosing 'autism' is NO accident.

Some of you might remember my jokes about what the quickest way to clear a room full of pediatricians...

Hey! I want to report an adverse reaction (to an innoculation )!

Followed by a close second...

Hey! I want to have my child tested for mercury poisoning!

As long as we are setting the record straight...

Bsl4doc has contended that there is no thimerosal in MMR vaccine.

That is quite right... technically.

The one thing she might have failed to mention...

(Drum roll please...)

Is that the shots are given in 'gangs' (read LOTs of shots all at once). It is quite routine for children at 18 months (They also now give shots at birth!) to be given numerous shots which contain thimerosal as well as the MMR.

Maybe Bsl4doc, you could share with us what shots are standard in the 'gangs' given to Italian children at 18 months?

As to doctor hating... Nah, most people in the alternative medicine community don't hate doctors.

We just don't like their ignorance... and the huge toll in misery and suffering it heaps on the innocent. There are many many areas where a thinking doctor should be embarrassed to call themselves an MD, and not so coincidentally those are the areas where alternative medicine shine shine shine.

Honest observers will tell you emergency room MDs and the networks that feed them mostly walk on water.

I'm quite partial to several cosmetic surgeons in our area of the world. Wonderful, wonderful people. I've seen the work and dedication and TRUE CARING by these MDs such as in putting a little girls face back together after a horrific accident... should be hanging in the Louvre.

Unfortunately, it's not all good. In the medical equivalent of 'stopped watch syndrome', conventional medicine is absolutely without a clue to the so called degenerative diseases.

The problem in a nutshell, is that they receive almost no education in a lot of the basic functioning of the body, that combined with an indoctrination process that rewards parroting and discourages innovative thinking...

The result is quite sad... Drugs seem to be the answer to almost everything... Often times followed by a painful and horrific death.

There is very little holistic, viewing of the body as a whole.

Being an absolute nutjob as I seem to be painted is quite liberating though...



People are absolutely astounded at exactly how many of their digestion problems simply go away (after 3-10 days ), by just eating a couple of sticks of celery EVERY day.

Tastes a lot better than those pills Evil Filly & Co, 'we REALLY care about you' are selling...



BTW Dae... We've achieved fantastic results for autistics by treating the gut for runaway Candidiasis... For just pennies.

It's good to be me.

[edit on 20-6-2006 by golemina]

I have never had a vaccine and guess what I have not gotten the flu in like 10 years nor any other illness aside from slight head colds which pass within 24 hours. I attribute my superior immune system to not giving a damn about modern medicines persay.

It's good to be me.

You go Golemina. Keep on keeping on. You've provided a lot of useful information. It is appreciated.

Any friend of Pre's is a friend of mine.

I had to have a good giggle about the "nut job" quote! You have no idea how many times people tell me that I'm "nuts", "looney", you name it! Thank you for making realise that I'm not alone in my thinking/beliefs.

Originally posted by golemina
BTW Dae... We've achieved fantastic results for autistics by treating the gut for runaway Candidiasis... For just pennies.

Amazing really. This is going off topic a tad but it got me thinking about our personalities and behaviours. If a bacteria can turn a sociable person into autism then what else can they do? How much of our personalities have been changed by virus and bacteria? For instance, a friend has a 'depressive' type of personality, she says it also runs in her family, what if, something we have presumed as genetic disposition may actually be infection of virus or bacterias?

Anyways its got me thinking and I think I might start a new thread about some of the ideas Ive got.

Unites States is in the middle of the epidemic of Autism in children.

White House thinks "something" is making our kids go disable.

Experts are divided on the cause.

but we here know its the vaccines like the MMR.


someone above asked for the links to any research:

how many do you want?

www.foxnews.com...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

www.kidsource.com...

www.worldnetdaily.com...

www.autismwebsite.com...

www.909shot.com...



Link

www.jabs.org.uk...

www.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 21-6-2006 by mr conspiracy]

I found this

MONTREAL - A new Quebec study casts doubt on the popular theory that mercury poisoning from childhood vaccinations can cause autism. The theory has prevailed despite several previous studies around the world that have failed to find any connection between autism and common childhood vaccines containing mercury.

However, those numbers were not shown in the article. And it still does not fix the issue that mercury is BAD for you no matter what. I am glad this is an option and will try to exercise it for my daughter. Some suffering of normal illnesses is emminent.

huh thats odd, im actually from harrow and havent heard about this

peace out

TheOne

Originally posted by mr conspiracy

someone above asked for the links to any research:

how many do you want?

Well one would be nice.

Have you actually read any of the links? I've gone through the first 5 and none of of them present any research that links (let alone proves) that MMR causes autism.

www.foxnews.com...

This is actually a pretty good article and presents some interesting information, including the fact that there might not even be an epidemic of autism:

Eric Fombonne, MD, FRCPsych, of the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College, London, has studied autism in the U.K.

"From our data, we can say that we have a prevalence that is 62 cases per 10,000 children," he told WebMD in a 2001 interview. "In the mid-1960s, we showed rates of 4 cases per 10,000."

Isn't this the sign of an epidemic? Not necessarily.

"You cannot compare studies now to studies from 30 years ago," Fombonne said. "It would be comparing oranges not with apples, but with sheep."

...

Children with autism vary widely. It was not until 1940 that this constellation of problems with social interaction, communication, and focused interest came to be called autism. And it was not until 1980 that the diagnosis of autism was formalized.

In 1994, the diagnosis changed again. Kids diagnosed with autism from 1980 through 1993 had to meet six mandatory criteria. The new 1994 definition offered 16 optional criteria, only eight of which had to be met. Gernsbacher says the 1994 diagnosis made it much easier for a child to be labeled autistic.

...

I would recommend anyone to read all the article.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Really crappy news feed with no research.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Same again.

www.kidsource.com...

Dead link

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Still no research. This article seems to blame thermisol for autism and actually promotes the use of MMR as it does not contain thermisol.

What is interesting is that if you look up the mumps, measles, rubella [MMR] vaccines in the PDR you'll see that they do not contain thimerosal because it would kill the live virus. The MMR is available in multidose packaging and, yet, there is no preservative – nothing.

Got bored of checking out news sites after this. If you know of some actual research that supports the hypothesis that MMR causes autism then please post them for debate.

I would also like anyone to explain to me by what mechanism MMR causes autsim in children, as I have no idea, and I suspect nobody else does either.

Originally posted by scoobdude
However, those numbers were not shown in the article. And it still does not fix the issue that mercury is BAD for you no matter what. I am glad this is an option and will try to exercise it for my daughter. Some suffering of normal illnesses is emminent.

From your link it states:

"In fact, in my study the incidence of (autism) is higher in the years when there was no mercury."

Bit of an eye opener...

>If you know of some actual research that supports the hypothesis that MMR causes autism then please post them for debate.



Knock. Knock.

Who is at the door?

This is REALITY calling...

Looking for links (peer review studies, yada yada nonsense) coming from the medical community that innoculations cause autism...

Would be a LOT like looking for proof of the gas chambers in periodicals in Nazi Germany.



When people like me, who are in the trenchs are telling you week after week...

- MDs are CAUSING the autism.
- MDs have NO interest in researching the true root causes of autism.
- MDs block ANY attempts by ANYONE ELSE to do ANY independent research.
- MDs engage in MASSIVE dinsinformation campaigns to attack any who even thinks about this type research.
- The ENTIRE medical community systematically attacks ANY treatments/ideas for the relief/cure of autism that demonstrate ANY efficacy.

Just last week on NBC Dateline Stone Phillips (Stone "I'm SO pretty. I'm SO pretty" Phillips you are a TOTAL hack. ) did a piece supposedly about a 'controversial' treatment technique... But is was the most blantant of attack pieces...

If your child has autism or you suspect your child has autism... The LAST place you will probably find ANY help is going to your doctor (with apologies to MDs who are TRUE friends of the autistic community).

Reach out and find someone you feel you can work with/take a shine to in the alternative medical community.

We just quietly (well... almost quietly... ) just get the job done.

You can do it too... With mostly just simple diet and supplements. It's SO simple.

I'm available 24x7 for anyone needing any info/hints.

Yes! It IS good to be me.

BTW LovingSoul... When you embrace your 'nutjob'ness you take away their biggest weapon against you... The need to conform.

We are pioneers in the face of Medieval thinking...

We are going to get these kids the REAL help they need.

When people like me, who are in the trenchs are telling you week after week...

- MDs are CAUSING the autism.

Why would physicians want to create an untreatable condition? If physicians ever "created" a medical condition, wouldn't you think it would be a chronic disease requiring expensive treatments?

- MDs have NO interest in researching the true root causes of autism.

That's because MDs don't conduct research outside of clinical practice. They don't create/research drugs. That's what PhDs are for.

- MDs block ANY attempts by ANYONE ELSE to do ANY independent research.

Again, MDs do not conduct research, and they have no control over the work of PhDs or anyone for that matter.

- MDs engage in MASSIVE dinsinformation campaigns to attack any who even thinks about this type research.

Again, MDs do not conduct research, and they have no control over the work of PhDs or anyone for that matter. Can you provide any proof of this "campaign" ? The only time I've ever discouraged someone from supplementing their treatment with an alternative medical treatment is when there is no science behind it, i.e. vitamin C for cancer.

- The ENTIRE medical community systematically attacks ANY treatments/ideas for the relief/cure of autism that demonstrate ANY efficacy.

Again, MDs do not conduct research, and they have no control over the work of PhDs or anyone for that matter. Also again, why would doctors want a condition that isn't typically treated medically to continue existing? And why would they allow the numerous autism research foundations to exist if you are so sure they blackball any research attempts?

Mariella