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Intelligence Spectrum...are stars conscious?

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posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 06:45 PM
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After many debates on other sites, Ive realized that there many people who agree with me that a star has a consciousness. It could be hard to grasp for most, but you have to think about this logically.

A star ingests, excretes waste, reproduces, impregnates, and eventually even dies.

A star is a chemical reaction, just like we are.
For some, a star is a macrocosm of at atom's nucleus. Complete with orbiting protons and electrons. Is the earth a proton. Are we microbes, viruses, bacteria living on the proton orbiting the sun which is the nucleus? For all we know the entire universe could be a single cell in something else.

Id like to discuss somethings about Quantum Physics, which we all know is 100% illogical and deals with the possibilities of all things. Stars ingest whatever falls onto their surface. They excrete stellar winds and flares which can radiate towards a planet and impregnate the planet. They even reproduce when the stuff they are made of are recycled into new starts. So why isnt a star alive ? We are analyzers and classifiers. We see objects everywhere, and we then label them and classify them. If a microbe can be considered alive, then why is our sun or even our planet which is completly organic. A microbe's consciousness isn't much. But it does react to it's environment. An electron reacts also whenever it's struck by another particle. The electron is one of the smallest things and nature and has it's own idea of self. Selfhood determines individual lifeforms.

Evolution is a unpremeditated drift towards higher levels of consiousness or self awareness. The more an organism sees it self clearly in the internal world it dwells in, it doesnt evolve further untill fresh demands are placed upon it.




posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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Would the 'spooky action at a distance' or Bell Theorum (right?) have something to do with your premise? I know I've read about experiments done concerning 'information' and how it is conveyed, quantum mechanically speaking, but it has been some time.

Please forgive my unlearned terminology--I understand many of the theories, but haven't studied formally and so I don't know the right words to use all the time. Please, I would be grateful for any corrections so that I can be more conversant in the future.
This is a subject (your 'religion') that I really find fascinating...



posted on Jun, 17 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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Everything I know about science tells me that stars aren't alive. They simply don't meet the requirements for a living organism. (en.wikipedia.org...)

A novel I read several years ago by Robert Silverberg is quite relevant to this topic; you may find it interesting. The amazon link is below: (the book is called Starborne)

www.amazon.com...



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
Would the 'spooky action at a distance' or Bell Theorum (right?) have something to do with your premise? I know I've read about experiments done concerning 'information' and how it is conveyed, quantum mechanically speaking, but it has been some time.

Please forgive my unlearned terminology--I understand many of the theories, but haven't studied formally and so I don't know the right words to use all the time. Please, I would be grateful for any corrections so that I can be more conversant in the future.
This is a subject (your 'religion') that I really find fascinating...


Queen, It would be my honor to help you with anything relating to Quantum Physics . Basiacally the physicists use old physics and apply all the rules and natural laws that orchestrate the cosmos and build upon them using microcosms, macrocosms, paradox's. I really don't know where to start. Except that the main thing in quantum physics is that is a study of the subatomic world. It's definatly a fusion of Science and religion. Both not mutually exclusive . Einstein said his life's work was dedicated to God, and searching for the truth.

Basically. We are made of matter which is of course trapped energy. Our soul is basically an electric charge that changes frequency (wavelength) from time to time. Wavelenght is a measurement system for frequency. Shorter the wave, the stronger the vibration. A radio wave, is large wavelength light. That radiation can cause cell damage if you were to keep your cellphone connected all day and tape it to your ear for months. Radiowaves are weak. There are waves and vibrations everywhere. I can tap into radiowave radiation with my cellphone to talk to my grandmother on the other side of the world. If you travel in a tunnel, you wont hear your AM station because AM frequency is much to large of a wavelength. If the circumference of the tunnel is large enough for the wavelengths, then you will hear your radio. Most tunnels are too small though.

When you boil water...the atoms are moving so fast, the water bubbles and the heat you feel (infared radiation) or (thermal) is a result of atomic friction. It's a very enlightening topic, and I hope you get into it. Ill go and talk about rainbows and what the colors represent, but ive already opened up a thread on that topic .

I guess it's radiation that gave life, and high concentration levels will definatly destroy life as well. To me, life is 100% more beautiful to me after learing quantum physics. Look up the author David Darling. I have all of his books. Good easy interpretation of the subject.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
Everything I know about science tells me that stars aren't alive. They simply don't meet the requirements for a living organism. (en.wikipedia.org...)

A novel I read several years ago by Robert Silverberg is quite relevant to this topic; you may find it interesting. The amazon link is below: (the book is called Starborne)

www.amazon.com...


How about you list the requirements. And ill guarantee ill change your mind. 100%



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 04:07 PM
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At the risk of sounding like a whacko--I believe everything is alive. Not in the sense of being a carbon exchanging sentient organism, but rather that there is a greater 'food chain,' a larger circle of life that is perpetual, in which the life and death of organic biologic life continues on....

And if we live, then light must surely be the source of life--and water and electricity the sustaining requirements.

Our hearts begin to beat because of electricity (in the sinus node) and the muscles are also regulated by electrolytes such as sodium and potassium, all of which contain a negative or positive charge. Life is electricity. It flows via water. Our bodies have 'waterway' systems which is the circulatory system and that is contained within a the rest which is water contained in various ways, in the cells, kind of like aquifers in the rocks of the earth.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
Queen, It would be my honor to help you with anything relating to Quantum Physics.

Thank you!!


Basiacally the physicists use old physics and apply all the rules and natural laws that orchestrate the cosmos and build upon them using microcosms, macrocosms, paradox's.

That, to me, is the only logical and sound approach, because their is an order, a uniformity, that compasses all systems--great and small. And all systems seem to be composed in a circular, spiral, or helical fashion on some certain level. They may not appear as such, but at some level they will.
Paradox.....hmmmm..
Do you think that it is an actuality, or maybe instead a paradox manifests when we don't fully see the order of the studied system? Or maybe a paradox is the manifestation of the underlying mainstay of all order, which is balance (which often appears, from a limited perspective, to be an opposition instead of a 'cancelling out')?


I really don't know where to start. Except that the main thing in quantum physics is that is a study of the subatomic world.
Surely it must start there--we cannot fully observe that which is bigger than us, only what is smaller.


It's definatly a fusion of Science and religion. Both not mutually exclusive . Einstein said his life's work was dedicated to God, and searching for the truth.

Einstein I admire greatly--I can relate to so much of his attitude and desire.

By religion, do you means 'confidence in the unseen being orderly' or more like that which is not material but ethereal? I only ask for clarification, because from my perspective, what I call religion is basically superstitious politics, and science is far too pure for such a dirty pool....

I see science as the systematic study of 'what is seen and repeats' as evidence for 'what is not seen yet also repeats'.


Ill go and talk about rainbows and what the colors represent, but ive already opened up a thread on that topic .
Yes, you've brought a lot to mind, but I think it will fit better on your other thread!


I guess it's radiation that gave life, and high concentration levels will definatly destroy life as well.

I think you are right, but I see it more like the destruction is only advancement to a more refined state. A fruit must fall from the tree and die before the seed can be planted in order that it may grow and give fruit in its turn. Something like that.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
At the risk of sounding like a whacko--I believe everything is alive. Not in the sense of being a carbon exchanging sentient organism, but rather that there is a greater 'food chain,' a larger circle of life that is perpetual, in which the life and death of organic biologic life continues on....

And if we live, then light must surely be the source of life--and water and electricity the sustaining requirements.

Our hearts begin to beat because of electricity (in the sinus node) and the muscles are also regulated by electrolytes such as sodium and potassium, all of which contain a negative or positive charge. Life is electricity. It flows via water. Our bodies have 'waterway' systems which is the circulatory system and that is contained within a the rest which is water contained in various ways, in the cells, kind of like aquifers in the rocks of the earth.



Don't worry about sounding wacko. If you ever watch the movie " what the bleep to we know" a documentary about quantum physics, you will hear it from all the scientists and physicists explaining how you must come out a wacko after studying the subject, otherwise you havent understood anything at all !

I love your posts. The natural spark to the heart I always say. The heart is sparked by electrolytes, and I always knew how we are 90% water but never knew where the water actually was kept. Bloodstream yes, but in atoms? thats new to me. Very interesting. The analogy to the rock was really awesome to hear.

The circular spiral systems you speak about is related to "divine proportion" it's basically a natural law that is applied to all life, and even artwork by renaissance artists, architects, engineers.etc. Divine proportion is an amazing topic and Ive recently purchased a book on it. I havent read it yet, but I know it compared things like the spiral in a galaxy to the spiral in a snail's shell. Or the 1.618 ratio explained. For every male in this world for example, there are 1.6 females. If you open up a beehive and you divede the number of females by the number of male bees, you will get a number of 1.618.

Science is the new religion. Technology will bring us closer to the truth. Religious scripture is obsolete. Those writing were written way before we even had telescopes. When the world was flat. I basically think religion means your interpretation of truth. I would even go as far as equating good and evil to the duality of an electric charge. Electricity is spirit. Energy is spirit. Good will always prevail over evil because an atom sheds electrons only. Protons never leave the nucleus. Almost like a saftey feature to make sure the universe stays automated.

And finally, I will end off on Cosmos from Chaos. Order is born out of disorder. When you said destruction is key to become refined, my eyes widened. I sometimes think we invented the atomic bomb to drench our atmosphere with high levels to the point where we become obsolete. The new human might spawn out of this chaos, created with the same radiation , except now that the new human is immune to the high levels of radiation that would kill all of us now. Perhaps he would have X-ray vision? or Thermal vision? it's all fun of course... But a nuke is not invented by mistake...oh no. The nuclear weapon could be essential for evolving intelligence that would be one step closer to perfection.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 05:20 PM
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oh BTW Queen, I was llookin at your blog, I see you love rainbows. The colors represent the light spectrum.

7 layers of radiation in our atmosphere. The micro,radio,Xray,Infared,far-infared,gamma and visible light. In a 3D world.

So shine a flashlight through a 3D shape of a pyramid. Find a glass transparent model. You will see the rainbow coming out of the point of the pyramid.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
Don't worry about sounding wacko. If you ever watch the movie " what the bleep to we know" a documentary about quantum physics, you will hear it from all the scientists and physicists explaining how you must come out a wacko after studying the subject, otherwise you havent understood anything at all !

I found out that 'I don't know bleep' the hard way!! And to think, I could have watched a movie. darn :shk:



The circular spiral systems you speak about is related to "divine proportion" it's basically a natural law that is applied to all life, and even artwork by renaissance artists, architects, engineers.etc.

The fibonacci sequence. The ordinal structure of life. All life. Period. It is amazing, isn't it????


Or the 1.618 ratio explained.

Think about a circle with a dot in the middle. Each point on that circle expands the circumference yet the circle remains perfect and each dot remains equidistant from the center. And, with the Fib seq. the higher the numbers progress, the closer the (result of some equation I can't recall) becomes to pi!
Check this page
out, if you haven't already. It explains what I can't. I undertstand, but cannot convey it because my understandings are conceptual and things I've 'gotten' rather than things I have acquired through formal education (if that makes sense).


Religious scripture is obsolete. Those writing were written way before we even had telescopes. When the world was flat. I basically think religion means your interpretation of truth.

I understand what you are saying, and why. I agree with your reasons, but not your statements. I'm not trying to persuade you, but just have some things you might one day feel are relevant to recall and consider...
Scripture is not obsolete. Religion is fast on its way out the door, no doubt. Religious interpretation of scripture is definitely the product of human opinions and personal 'truths.' BUT the bible (or any other true scripture) is not about religion--never has been. It is used that way, to our disgrace, but even if the men who wrote what is in there did not understand the implications of what they wrote (the hidden truths that are not subjective), there is no doubt in my mind that their hand was guided by a force that did know, completely, the underlying reality that science is beginning to expose to an almost complete extent.

There is only one idea/concept/blueprint to understand, and two ways to go about it, but I don't think anything can be truly understood without God's help. Science and religion fight, but they are, in a way, two sides of the same coin. The real trick is realizing that it is the same coin!

Duality, like religion is soon going to release us from prison! Unity is the only real truth.


And finally, I will end off on Cosmos from Chaos. Order is born out of disorder.
Yes, but the disorder is actually an incomplete view on the whole picture. Order is order. And from this perspective, much seems to be chaos. But it is contained within perfect order. God is g=good o=orderly d=direction. God is a quantum physicist who can do his own math! And God is also the wish that's in every star--one for each of us!


The nuclear weapon could be essential for evolving intelligence that would be one step closer to perfection.

If you've never read the accounts of those who witnessed the first detonation, at the trinity site, I recommend it as enlightening information. Splitting an atom is surely something that we were destined to learn how to do, and although it seems so terrible and destructive, it is of a power not of this world, from the witnesses said. And I learned about the effects the two dropped in Japan had, and have come to understand that the cold war was more of an illusion or exactly what it seems like---a paranoid and fearful power struggle in the aftermath of true human humility...
The damage that happened ended the war, Japan's national attitude totally turned around--these were soldiers whose only end was kamikaze. They did not give up. But unless people died, more people were going to die. It was not going to end, I don't think with less than were lost in Japan. The red buttons that supposedly all leaders have their hands on are Pandora's boxes. And we had a taste of a little bitty box. No one wants to repeat it, I truly feel.

You are right--the nuclear bomb will make the human race more noble and higher-minded in their collective focus on one another rather than being the 'winner.'

[edit on 6/18/2006 by queenannie38]



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by StreetCorner Philosopher
oh BTW Queen, I was llookin at your blog, I see you love rainbows. The colors represent the light spectrum.

Thanks!

Yes, the rainbow is an awesome phenomenon, to me. I've been almost inside of one, somehow--I don't think it is possible, in the way we currently understand things, to be as close as I was once to a rainbow. I learned that a rainbow is somehow standing at the throne of God---I think others have been there, and I saw later in the bible that Ezekiel had.

Chakras are the 7 colors of the rainbow, too.

It all boils down to God. That's really all there is.



posted on Jun, 18 2006 @ 07:38 PM
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I know what you mean about the differences between knowing and understanding concepts and actually explaining them in words. I have trouble explaining what I understand also. Afterall, something just can't be explained, like good ol Human intuition.

I believe in your statement about religion. I understand where your coming from because Im a monotheist and a polytheist. Like you explained about the coin. Same coin, 2 sides. God is one, but also a collective and communal force. I know religious scripture is important, but as far as the bible being the work of God....thats where I would have to disagree with you. I dont believe in temporary posession. If you compare the author who does not break out of his zone when writing. The author who is in a zone and feels as if his hand moves automatically with the statement you made about God writing through man, then ill agree with you. Im writing a screenplay right now, and I sometimes feel like im in a zone, and God is writing through me. But I dont wake up after my screenplay is finished and become normal joe again with no writing ability or imagination.

When I talk about the rainbow, I basically talk about God also. Except most people won't consider Light to be god. I think Light is a big part of God. God created light, and the repercussions of radiation is a result of God and the paintbrush. Light being the paint. The way light bounces off of atoms determines appearence in our visual cortex. We are nothing but a reflection.

One last thing about the nuclear weapon. Continuous testing of this weapon is probably whats causing global warming. Maybe we don't need the "doomsday machine" to destroy to create. Maybe this testing is changing the atmosphere so much that humans might start evolving without the mass destruction. Intelligence adapts. One step closer to perfection...but never perfect. Only God is perfect. We rely on trial and error. A disaster happens. We feel God's wrath ( remorse, repentance) and we then prove the mistake will never happen again for the fear of feeling God's wrath again. Once again proves the cosmos from chaos. So amazing !

[edit on 6/18/2006 by StreetCorner Philosopher]




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