9/11 thefts not prosecuted

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LINK TO INDY STAR

NEW YORK (AP) -- Once-secret documents obtained by The Associated Press show a disaster supply management company went unpunished for Sept. 11 thefts after the government discovered FBI agents and other government officials had stolen artifacts from New York's ground zero.

Dan L'Allier said he witnessed 45 tons of the New York loot being unloaded in Minnesota at his company's headquarters. He and disaster specialist Chris Christopherson complained to a company executive, but were ordered to keep quiet. They persisted, going instead to the FBI.

That prompted a broader review that ultimately found 16 government employees, including a top FBI executive and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, had such artifacts from New York or the Pentagon.

Man, what is this? Finders-keepers-losers-weepers?

There is more to the story than what I care to respond to here, including whistleblowers that were severely harrassed because of their disclosures.

I am smart enough to know that bad things like this are going to happen when there is an emergency, that people will exploit any system at any time if the opportunity presents itself, but it makes me sick to my stomach when any person or organization takes advantage of people(s) in need, let alone if it is part of the government doing the exploiting.

The quote I included above about Donny Rumsfeld being involved is not to be considered a personal snipe at him, but rather to show that this event goes to the highest levels in government. It could be that Rumsfeld was given the objects as a "gift" of some sort, but if he knows that the objects were plundered from NYC or the Pentagon, he needs to make some sort of restitution now.

JDub

And we wonder still where all that Gold, Siver and such has gone.

At least that just vaporized like the plane in PA and DC did... ya thats it it vaporized......

I don't know about the gold. There was supposedly so much there, it couldn't all disappear by people sticking it in their pockets and walking away. That would have taken more of a concerted effort to accomplish.

JDub

No gold was stolen. That is another internet rumor based on a selective missinterpetation of the facts.

Originally posted by BlueTileSpook
I don't know about the gold. There was supposedly so much there, it couldn't all disappear by people sticking it in their pockets and walking away. That would have taken more of a concerted effort to accomplish.

JDub

People often underestimate just how hard it is to move large amount of gold. Single bars can weigh as much as 47 pounds ea. For example in the movie "Die Hard 2" when they robbed the Gold reserve with around 10 Dump trucks when in reality it would have taken in excess of 200 dump trucks to move all that gold out.

Howard and Shadow -

Thanks for correcting me. I opened my mouth and engaged my fingers before engaging my brain.

I had seen the rumors about the "gold storage" there at the WTC, but have also read that it was not actually there.

The main point of my reply, which I didn't state very well, was that a person cannot walk off with very much gold or silver in their pocket, and "if there was gold there", it would have taken a lot of people to be complicit with each other to steal it. They would have had to have brought in trucks to make off with it, and there would have been too many witnesses wanting "their fair share" to do something like that and not have anyone know.

Sorry I wasn't clearer in my 2nd post.

JDub

Originally posted by HowardRoark
No gold was stolen. That is another internet rumor based on a selective misinterpretation of the facts.

Whana back that up Howard,

Originally posted by BlueTileSpook


The main point of my reply, which I didn't state very well, was that a person cannot walk off with very much gold or silver in their pocket, and "if there was gold there", it would have taken a lot of people to be complicit with each other to steal it. They would have had to have brought in trucks to make off with it, and there would have been too many witnesses wanting "their fair share" to do something like that and not have anyone know.

I guess that would indeed be possible considering the number of trucks used in the recovery and clean up process. It would have to be one heck of a operation to move the Tons of gold and silver out and even more impressive to silent banks like ScotiaBank's which had 12 tons of gold and 30 million ounces of silver from screaming bloody murder if it was stolen.

Im pretty sure Brink moved ScotiaBank's gold out of the area for them.

Originally posted by Sauron

Originally posted by HowardRoark
No gold was stolen. That is another internet rumor based on a selective misinterpretation of the facts.

Whana back that up Howard,

The original articles

NEW YORK — Over $230 million in gold and silver was recovered from a delivery tunnel beneath 5 World Trade Center Wednesday. Canada’s Bank of Nova Scotia stored over $200 million in gold and silver in their vaults under the building. They are still unsure how much of the recovered metal was theirs. It is believed that there were other valuables stored in the vaults but there is no information on how much of it has been lost or recovered in the disaster.

Officials finally reached the trove Tuesday after removing a 10-wheel truck and several cars that had been crushed by the debris. No bodies were recovered. More than 100 armed officers watched the workers. The contents of the vaults had to be removed because authorities need to demolish the building.

911research.wtc7.net...


aand

Workers clearing rubble in a service tunnel underneath one of the collapsed World Trade Centre buildings found themselves surrounded by more than 100 armed FBI and secret service personnel, who had been tipped off by the owners where the gold was buried.
The collapsed buildings contained a number of vaults and strongrooms, but the police were not saying who owned the gold.
The Comex metals trading division of the New York Mercantile Exchange kept 3,800 gold bars — weighing 12 tonnes and worth more than $100 million (£70 million) — in vaults in the building’s basement. Comex also held almost 800,000 ounces of gold there on behalf of others with a value of about $220 million. It also held more than 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430 million.
The Bank of Nova Scotia, which kept gold in the Comex vault, reported $200 million of gold lost in the wreckage. Comex also held precious metals for Chase Manhattan Bank, the Bank of New York and Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking.
The vaults higher up the towers became burial chambers on September 11 as some workers tried in vain to protect themselves from the fire and smoke by taking refuge inside them.
The gold, which was discovered on Tuesday, was being transported through the basement of the building on the morning of September 11. Recovery workers reached a service tunnel and discovered a ten-wheel lorry and a number of cars which had been crushed by falling steel.
A temporary ramp was built to gain access to the tunnel and a small bulldozer was used to break through a wall. Then a team of police and firefighters arrived to put the gold into an armoured bullion lorry. Other workers were told to make themselves scarce. “If I tried to go down there they would have shot me,” one said.

911research.wtc7.net...


Now see a selective reinterpretation by a conspiracy theorist of the information presented above:

The circumstances surrounding part of the gold that was recovered offer clues to what may have happened to the unrecovered gold. According to reports, two truckloads of gold were found in a delivery tunnel under 5 World Trade Center in a 10-wheel lorry which had been crushed by falling steel. The vault was under 4 World Trade Center, which was closer to the South Tower, and more heavily damaged. There were no bodies discovered with the lorry, suggesting that whoever was removing the gold was warned of the imminent collapse of the South Tower.

911research.wtc7.net...

How can two truckloads be found in one 10 wheel truck?

Could it be that one load was waiting for transport while the other was actually loaded on the truck, waiting for the orders to leave?

That would explain two truckloads but only one truck.

JDub

cool Howard you must have had your post lined up and ready, and as your link states gold is missing, and the ten wheeled truck(tandem axle), come on, two loads two trucks.

your link

The vault was under 4 World Trade Center, which was closer to the South Tower, and more heavily damaged. There were no bodies discovered with the lorry, suggesting that whoever was removing the gold was warned of the imminent collapse of the South Tower.

who was taking the gold,? the government umh. why was there gold in the tunnels?


[edit on 16/6/2006 by Sauron]

If you read the orgininal articles, no where do they say that the gold was found in the truck. In fact the first article explictly states thatthe gold was reached after the truck and the cars were moved.

The gold was undoubtedly in a vault that had to be accessed through the loading dock.

All of it was recovered.

Originally posted by Sauron
cool Howard you must have had your post lined up and ready, and as your link states gold is missing, and the ten wheeled truck(tandem axle), come on, two loads to trucks.

you link

The vault was under 4 World Trade Center, which was closer to the South Tower, and more heavily damaged. There were no bodies discovered with the lorry, suggesting that whoever was removing the gold was warned of the imminent collapse of the South Tower.

who was taking the gold,? the government umh. why was there gold in the tunnels?



[edit on 16/6/2006 by Sauron]

Note that that is someone's interpetation the facts presented in the first two articles.

In fact, if you read the first two articles, it is impossible to see how that interpetation could be made.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
The gold was undoubtedly in a vault that had to be accessed through the loading dock. All of it was recovered.

Sorry Howard you have not proved (undoubtedly) that the gold was recovered.

A fortune in gold trapped for seven weeks in the ruins of the World Trade Center officially returned to the global bullion trade Friday, but dealers had already closed the book on the tale of tragedy and buried treasure.

…..


Guarded by a small army of heavily armed federal agents, city policemen and firefighters began the massive task of moving about 12 tonnes of gold and 30 million ounces of silver. The hoard was estimated to be worth at least $230 million.
There were about 3,800 100-Troy-ounce registered gold bars in the underground COMEX warehouse. While gold is very dense, the task of loading the indestructible yellow metal onto armoured Brinks trucks was not nearly as cumbersome as moving the silver.
Experts said it would take some 50 tractor trailers to transport 30,000 1,000-ounce silver bars.

www.rediff.com...

Not good enough, an un-authored articles does not cut for me, How about the actual bank records.

[edit on 16/6/2006 by Sauron]

Originally posted by Sauron
Not good enough, an un-authored articles does not cut for me, How about the actual bank records.

[edit on 16/6/2006 by Sauron]

What kind of records would satisfy you? The IRS records from all of the traders and companies that owned parts of the gold and silver? The SEC records of the bank transactions? The banking regulators reports and audits of the banks finances? The insurance companies records of the banks claims? The accounting records?

That’s a lot op people that would have to be in on covering up the loss of 200 million dollars of gold.

Remember: various people all over had ownership stake in that gold. If it just disappeared, then don’t you think they’d be a bit PO’d about it?

Howard -

Just asking a hypothetical question here.

Wouldn't those precious metals have had insurance on them in case of loss or theft?

Would it be possible (not saying likely) that it could have been stolen and the owners would have collected the insurance monies off of it?

JDub

iv'e never heard of the possibility of a gold theft, that sure would be the iceing on the cake. i cant believe they smuggled all of it out, that is too outragouse that it would even be attempted, but who knows. i found a couple more articles on this, i dont know if the source is credible or not, but im sure mr. roark will set it straite.

www.cooperativeresearch.org...

www.sierratimes.com...

[edit on 22-6-2006 by tom goose]

Think about this logically. If 200 million dollars in gold was stolen, it had to have been stolen from some one. Right?

At some point, those people who are out the money are going to be screaming about it.

You can actually buy some of the recovered gold coins.