Is Hillary Clinton going to be President?

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posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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J/O, may I offer a few opinions of my own? And a prediction.

Dick Cheney is too old by far, and too sick - his heart not his mind - and he has no interest in working this hard ever again. He’ll collect another huge bonus from Halliburton to go with his earlier $70 million bonus. His wife Lynne may continue in politics as has Elizabeth Dole.

John McCain is too old. I’m thinking no one over 59 is a viable candidate. Unless we want another care-taker as in Eisenhower or Reagan. McCain has too many enemies in the GOP to make him viable in the primaries. So I rule him out. Jeb Bush is out because the “name” baggage he carries is too heavy. I think the Bush dynasty is ended. Not after B41 who was no slouch in red ink spending, and now B43 added to Regan’s red ink legacy, together making about $10 T. of debt for our great- grand-children to pay off. The financiers and or bankers have already got the deal of a century when B43 had the tax cut to 15% on “non-sweat” income. America’s own 2 tier tax plan. Wow! The flat tax advocates can go to hell now! It’s come with a vengeance! A flat tax for the R&Fs and a graduated tax for the poor and poorer. Hey-sues! The GOP does take care of its own! Sweet Jesus.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is the front running Dem before the race starts. She will have to decide 1) how aggressively to place herself in the primaries, keeping in mind that Bill won as a Centerist, maybe even a tad to the “right” of center. And 2) what to do with Bill. She is at risk the public will perceive she is merely a stalking horse for Bill. While I think Bill could win if he was eligible to run, the fact is he can’t run and this is not Alabama and she is not Lurleen Wallace.

Barak Obama. Too new on the national scene. The Dems have one great opportunity to regain the White House and they are not going to give the nomination to a person who is essentially unknown. He has not accumulated enough party "credits." It just won’t happen. He will not get the VP nomination, either, because the Dems do not want to give the South a reason to say “No” to this golden opportunity. It will be hard enough to overcome prejudice against a woman in the White House. I like Obama but Colin Powell has more political credits thatn Obama.

I was listening to an analyst explain the “lying” factor. This is the number of people who give a PC answer to pollsters rather than a truthful answer. It is very difficult - if not impossible - to know the lying factor until after the votes have been counted. The analyst explained the best example was the Doug Wilder gubernatorial election in Virginia in the late 1980s. Exit polls, which have been perfected to a very high order of reliability, showed the first black governor in the country was running 10% ahead of his GOP opponent. When the dust settled, Wilder just barely won by 0.5% of the vote. The same exit poll was dead-on in the other state-wide races. This showed the lying factor continued even after the voter had finished in the voting booth. He still gave the PC answer. So, while most people say a woman can be president, that does not make it true they will vote for Hillary.

2008 must be a re-run of 1960 if the Dems are to win. As JFK choose LBJ - not a man he liked - Stu Symington fits that definition better, but he made the hard decision the Dems must carry at least part of the South.

My choice? Tim Kane, recently re-elected governor of Virginia. He is the only sitting southern Democratic governor whose term goes past 2007. His ends in 2010. This puts him perfectly placed to be Hillary’s running mate.

So, for 2008, I’m predicting it will be a Clinton-Kane ticket. If for some reason that fails, then I predict - a stand-by prediction - that her running mate will be Senator Bill Nelson of Florida!

Justin, I know the Holy Writ denounces future-tellers, and the Hebrew word we have translated as “Prophet” and erroneously endowed as a future-teller, is better translated as “harbinger” or even as “preacher” than as a future-teller, but as so many before me have done, I truly believe my forecast!


[edit on 10/27/2006 by donwhite]




posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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Tim Kaine has just been elected Gov. of Va. I know I live in SW Va. And Gov's. of Va are blocked by law from running back to back elections...if they want the job again they have to sit out a term and this is Kaine's first term and he is an unknown factor even for Virginians. You are probably thinking about Mark Warner who after 8 years of George Allen and Jim Gilmore (both R) managed to clean up the mess they made of the state and its finances. Warner was an excellent gov. and as been testing the waters for a run for the presidency in 08 and just decided to sit it out though he left the possiblity open to run for gov again or run for President at a later date.

I like Rus Finegold myself...at least to date. A Wesley Clark/ John Edwards ticket would be good too.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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posted by grover

Tim Kaine has just been elected Gov. of Va.


How does he pronounce his name, which I misspelled?



Gov's. of Va are blocked by law from running back to back elections...if they want the job again they have to sit out a term and this is Kaine's first term and he is an unknown factor even for Virginians.


I got his name from a list of governor’s that showed the expiration date of their terms. I assumed he had been re-elected.



You are probably thinking about Mark Warner who after 8 years of George Allen and Jim Gilmore (both R) managed to clean up the mess they made of the state and its finances. Warner was an excellent gov. and as been testing the waters for a run for the presidency in 08 . .


Yes, if I was thinking at all about that. I’m sure somewhere in my mind I had Warner on my mind. So what’s wrong with him taking a shot at the VP slot?



I like Rus Finegold myself...at least to date. A Wesley Clark John Edwards ticket would be good too.


it’s called momentum. Gen. Clark’s has come and gone and he did not try to push it along. John Edwards is a good fellow, but he failed in his task to carry Florida by 400,000 votes. You don’t go with proven losers. Feingold is my kind of guy, too, but I’m insisting Hillary must have a southerner who can carry some southern states. Wisconsin is no where close to the south.

She is from New York. Bill will call in his “chits” from the Dems. She will get the nomination if she wants it. Is the Pope a Catholic? As JFK in 1960 had a Mass and Texas ticket, so Hillary could have a NY and VA ticket.

Or failing that, Florida’s Senator Bill Nelson who is expected to win re-election November 7.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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Well, now. Tim Kain? I spent an hour looking things over before I posted this. Kain is not in Presidential mode. He looks like he has cast his lot as a state-level reformer. that should keep him busy until 2012. Assumingthat he stays out of trouble, there's no reason we shouldn't see him run for the Presidency at that time.

Those of you who are political junkies may have noticed that Barak Obama was making the talk show circuit this week. He was openly talking about his desire to be President. He did not hesitate to admit that he would like to be on the campaign trail in '08.

Don and I have both said that Obama would make sense as a VP choice because his record can't be nit-picked too much. He hasn't been in D.C. long enough to make the usual mistakes. He is poised and eloquent enough to fend off any verbal attacks. He will look good on t.v. in a debate. Americans are ready for a black vice President, or even a black President.

A woman and a black on the same Democrat ticket will mobilize their base in much the same way as certain issues mobilize conservatives to go to the polls in large numbers. As much as I hate to admit it, the presence of such a ticket will motivate some conservatives to stay home on voting day if the Republican candidate suffers from foot-in-mouth desease.

What little I see from the RNC at this point suggests to me that they are having a hard time finding Presidential candidates other than John McCain. Newt Gingrich may be flirting with the idea, but I just don't get that vibe from him. I think he likes playing the role of cowboy strategist too much. As much as I dislike the idea of what I am seeing, I'm just calling it like I see it.



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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posted by anxietydisorder

I think she'd love to have #1600 as her return address again. I'm Canadian, but I love to watch the American politics, it's like a soap opera. I hope Senator Clinton becomes President, but then has a torrid love affair with one of her Secret Service agents. She could deny everything until she started showing obvious signs of pregnancy, then she'd have to step out from behind the podium and make Bill look like the poor betrayed bastard that will stand behind his spouse no matter what. That sort of thing would keep me entertained on CNN for weeks. But, Shhhhhhhhh, Quiet everyone. The big secret is a Bush landslide in 2012. That will wrap up the Mayan calendar, and the world will then come to an end. [Edited by Don W]



DOB, October 2, 1947. On January 20, 2009, she will be 62 which is a bit past child-bearing age in the Lower 48 but may not be in cooler Canuck land. Surely you are not equating our own Protestant Joan of Ark to an old walrus? But you are right about one thing. We Americans prefer sensationalism to hard news.



[edit on 10/27/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 05:46 PM
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posted by Justin Oldham

Tim Kaine? I spent an hour looking things over before I posted this. Kaine is not in Presidential mode. Those of you who are political junkies may have noticed that Barak Obama was making the talk show circuit this week. He was openly talking about his desire to be President. He did not hesitate to admit that he would like to be on the campaign trail in '08.

Don and I have both said that Obama would make sense as a VP choice because his record can't be nit-picked too much. He hasn't been in D.C. long enough to make the usual mistakes. He is poised and eloquent enough to fend off any verbal attacks. He will look good on t.v. in a debate. Americans are ready for a black vice President, or even a black President.

A woman and a black on the same Democrat ticket will mobilize their base in much the same way as certain issues mobilize conservatives to go to the polls in large numbers. As much as I hate to admit it, the presence of such a ticket will motivate some conservatives to stay home on voting day if the Republican candidate suffers from foot-in-mouth disease.

The RNC at this point suggests to me they are having a hard time finding Presidential candidates other than John McCain. Newt Gingrich may be flirting with the idea, but I just don't get that vibe from him. I think he likes playing the role of cowboy strategist too much. As much as I dislike the idea of what I am seeing, I'm just calling it like I see it. [Edited by Don W]



Right. Right and Right. Kaine is happy in VA. I mixed him with Mark Warner as Grover corrected. I like Barak but I don’t think the Dems will tackle two potentially divisive issues at one time - a woman and a black on the national ticket. The Dems want to win in ‘08 which means they will play it close to the vest. Take no chances you don’t have to take. Yup, John McCain - a genuine war hero - has made many good marks in the political Center but that is not where Pat Robertson or Jim Dobson are taking the Republican Party. Newt? Are we really sure he sent back that $4.5 million check from Rupert Murdoch? Newt has made many enemies. He is like the lightning rod GOP-ers say Hillary will be. IMO.


[edit on 10/27/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Oct, 27 2006 @ 06:57 PM
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I don't see the Dems being as afraid of the race card as the Reoublicans would surely be. I'm ashamed of the GOP for still harboring those notions, most especially since Rice and Powell proved their mettle right in front of everyone to see for themselves.

I'm oretty sure that Don and I are old enough to remember the bad old days. That sort of prejudice should be dead and buried by now. I admit that I still make incorrect use of the term "boy" when I talk to some people very much younger than me, but even I know that this is the 21st century. America should be color blind.



posted on Nov, 4 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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As I write this, there are just three days left before the November 7th elections. The failure of GOP candidates across the country to capture and maintain decisive pre-electoral polling leads would suggest that many cranky voters have already made up their minds. Those of you who have thought differently should be commended for your optimism, but as it stands right now...a majority of the prediction's I have made in this thread remain on track and ready to come true.

As the Republican party begins to shatter, fragment, and implode, only one questions remains. How will the Dems exploit this turn of events? As a life-long conservative, I'd like to think that the GOP will come back one day after its time in hte wildnerness to show us just how much it has reformed. I look forward to seeing what that transformed political party might look like.

In the mean time, I will continue preparations for the rise of Hillary and the increased Federalism she'll bring with her. I'm not looking forward to it, but I accept it for what it is.



posted on Nov, 4 2006 @ 06:22 PM
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posted by Justin Oldham

(1) “ . . there are three days before the November 7th election. The failure of GOP candidates to capture pre-electoral leads suggests that many voters have made up their minds . . as it stands right now a majority of predictions I made in this thread remain on track and ready to come true.

(2) As the Republican party begins to implode, one questions remains. How will the Dems exploit this turn of events? As a conservative, I'd like to think that the GOP will come back after its time in the wilderness to show us just how much it has reformed. I look forward to seeing that transformed political party.

(3) In the mean time, I will continue preparations for the rise of Hillary and the increased Federalism she'll bring with her. I'm not looking forward to it, but I accept it for what it is. [Edited by Don W]



1) Yogi Berra said it quickest, “It ain’t over ‘til its over.”

2) Gosh, the GOP held Congress - with 6 years of Wilson excepted - from 1860 until 1932. They have held Congress - with 2 years of Senate excepted - from 1994 to 2006. I expect they will come back if they lose both the House and Senate. If they lose the House only, then the Dems in the House will have their work cut out for them. No time to impeach any of the Executive Branch. Or Judicial. That’s ok for barroom talk but not for real serious conversation. Holding the House only is going to be tough, almost as tough as holding neither.

3) Pundits now are all saying - I don’t listen to Fox so I don’t know what they are saying - that Hillary is the front runner for the nomination and to win the fall election. In other words, that worst of all possible scenarios, it is her’s to lose.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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I dont think that a female president would be the best idea right now. I have been in the middle east and I can tell you most muslim leaders will not talk to a female president, or respect her.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by JamesMcMahn]



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I dont think that a female president would be the best idea right now. I have been in the middle east and I can tell you most muslim leaders will not talk to a female president, or respect her.


The Muslims aren't the only people who will have prejudices against a women in high office. Anyone who has followed the careers of Madeline Albright and Condoleeza Rice can tell you that. Even so, the rise of a female President inside our own borders is a decision that we make. If they don't like, that's too bad.

While I don't care for her politics ,and I find her to be a lot to take in small doses, I can't fault Hillary for her gender. American society should be gender neutral and color blind. We should not judge candidates on the basis of race or sex. What they say, what they do, and the measure of the character, should be enough for us.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I dont think that a female president would be the best idea right now. I have been in the middle east and I can tell you most muslim leaders will not talk to a female president, or respect her.


The Muslims aren't the only people who will have prejudices against a women in high office. Anyone who has followed the careers of Madeline Albright and Condoleeza Rice can tell you that. Even so, the rise of a female President inside our own borders is a decision that we make. If they don't like, that's too bad.

While I don't care for her politics ,and I find her to be a lot to take in small doses, I can't fault Hillary for her gender. American society should be gender neutral and color blind. We should not judge candidates on the basis of race or sex. What they say, what they do, and the measure of the character, should be enough for us.



Yes, it will be good enough for us but we also have to consider the world situation right now we are going to be in the middle east for a long time and I would say about 90% of muslim men dont respect women.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
I dont think that a female president would be the best idea right now. I have been in the middle east and I can tell you most muslim leaders will not talk to a female president, or respect her.


The Muslims aren't the only people who will have prejudices against a women in high office. Anyone who has followed the careers of Madeline Albright and Condoleeza Rice can tell you that. Even so, the rise of a female President inside our own borders is a decision that we make. If they don't like, that's too bad.

While I don't care for her politics ,and I find her to be a lot to take in small doses, I can't fault Hillary for her gender. American society should be gender neutral and color blind. We should not judge candidates on the basis of race or sex. What they say, what they do, and the measure of the character, should be enough for us.



Yes, it will be good enough for us but we also have to consider the world situation right now we are going to be in the middle east for a long time and I would say about 90% of muslim men dont respect women.



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 02:33 AM
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It's true that most Muslim men in the Middle East don't treat women as we would like them to. However, we shuld not pick our leaders on the basis of what pleases other people. This is our country, and our choices should please a majority of us.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Hillary Rodham Clinton

Born in Illinois in 1947, the first of 3 children, she would be 61 years, 2 months and 24 days old on January 20, 2009. She has 12 years experience as the wife of the governor of Arkansas, 8 years experience as the wife of the president, and will have 8 years experience as the only woman ever elected to the US Senate from New York, the 2nd most populous state. It is my opinion she is the best qualified person in America to be president, based on her lengthy record of service and near-service. In other words, she already knows how to wield the levers of power. She knows already the people to bring into office around her. She has a vision for America that I admire and look forward to with great anticipation.

She is clearly the front runner in Democratic politics. Barak Obama is too new on the national scene to be taken seriously. Al Gore, John Kerry and John Edwards are losers. Howard Dean has found his niche. Hillary is not only the Democrats best choice, she is the country’s best choice. And ready to serve her country!

On the GOP side, I do not know if anyone will make an issue of it, but it is possible to argue not only is John McCain too old - born in 1936 he would be 73 at his inauguration - he was not born in the United States. See US Con., Article II, Section 1, Clause 4, “No person except a natural born citizen . . shall be eligible to the office of President;” McCain was born in Panama. If you think Panama is the United State then you have no problem with McCain, but I do not think Panama is the United States.

Former NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani is far too liberal for the GOP base not to mention an unseemly divorce. He is at best, a “flash in the pan” type of candidate. Arnold Schwarzenegger is smart enough but again, he is foreign born and far too liberal. Ken Brown of FEMA fame and AG Gonzales of Torture and Rendition fame are both in the hard right GOP wing, but will wisely wait for a draft rather than make a bold “run for the roses.” Which leaves only Colin Powell. Again, his candidacy depends on what the GOP does about the Neocons and the Religious Right. If the more intelligent factions re-gain control of the Republican Party, it is not beyond my imagination to see Colin Powell on their ticket. But what are the odds of that? You say, about the same as being struck by lightning?

My interest in ‘08 politics is found in who should Hillary pick as her running mate? I say she needs to pick a man - one woman on the ticket at a time - who can bring the South into play. I’m referring to the Old Confederacy. The 11 states, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. These states have been the Republican base since Lyndon Johnson had the Civil Rights law passed in 1965. Hey, after 1964, the GOP has always been a happy home for racists, most especially after Ronnie Reagan called the racists home in the 1980s. And now Bush43 follows RR up. Thank you Lord, for little things.

So what or which Democrat can meet this requirement? My money is on the just re-elected Democratic Senator Bill Nelson of Florida. The Florida GOP gubernatorial candidate - Crist - won 55 to 45 over his Democratic opponent a former Tampa House member Rice, but at the same time Bill Nelson was carrying Florida 60 to 40 over multi-millionaire GOP Katherine Harris. A very good performance in a Red state. Virginia, OTOH, went 49.9 to 49.8 for Jim Webb over the GOP presidential hopeful and racist faux pas George Allen. Which the choice of Nelson would put the South into play and push the GOP further to the Right. Or so I see it. [All numbers are percentages.]


[edit on 11/20/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:57 AM
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posted by JamesMcMahn

I don’t think that a female president would be the best idea right now. I have been in the Middle East and I can tell you most Muslim leaders will not talk to a female president, or respect her. [Edited by Don W]



I disagree. I still recall Mrs. Sadat who taught university here in the US after his death. I recall the woman Prime Minister of Pakistan many years ago, Mrs. Buhto /?/ the daughter of a Pakistani strong man. Madam Gandhi of India who was not a Muslim for sure - assassinated by a Sikh - as well as Mrs. Now Lady Thatcher, the “Iron Lady.” Not to harken back without recalling Mrs. Golda Maier who taught school in Milwaukee before going to Israel to become a strong PM. The new PM of Germany. Our own Secretary of State Rice who has been in close contact throughout the Middle East.

At one level, I’m sure you are right, but at the “movers and shakers” level, it’s all about power and money. Sex, race and gender preference have nothing to do with that. Recall before we upset Saddam, Iraqi women were as free as any in the Muslim world and freer than most. We - American bungling - killed that. Young urban Iranian women are very restive. IMO. And do not forget the Queen of Shiba and King Solomon. Or Deborah the Judge.


[edit on 11/20/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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The 110th Congress will go in to session in just a few weeks. As the gavel comes down, the legislative agenda is likely to be overshadowed by Presidential politics. Barack Obama is getting a lot of positie press just now, but he lacks the money and behind-the-scenes talent to make any serious challenge for the Presidency.

It's worth noting that the Hillary Clinton camp is gearing up well before any announcements are made. She's already got a big lead when it comes to money. Quietly recruiting allows her to pick the best and brightest from the Democrat ranks wile at the same time cutting a few deals with some of the better freelance gunslingers that she'll need in her bid for the Presidency.

I note with some interest that he Republicans are more disorganized than they appear. Several factions have already begun to mis-aling in preparation for a really nasty fight that'll prove once and for all just how disorganized the GOP really is in the wake of so many scandals.

I am beginning to detect an undercurrent in some of the conservative blogs which tells me that my long-ago prediction is still on target. It may come to pass that John McCain gets the nomination because nobody else wants it bad enough to suffer the slings and arrows of a jaded public and a vicious mainstream media.

Obama's current hype is a sham. His rock star popularity stands on a foundation of political sand that could shift at any moment. The Clintons have been quietly building their Presidential machine since Bill left office. The '08 race is not a sure thing for them, but they've got it more wired than any of their competition has thought possible. Machievelli would be proud. I am not glad to see this, but I will achknowledge the skill and cunning that makes it possible.



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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posted by Justin Oldham

The 110th Congress will go in to session in just a few weeks. Barack Obama is getting a lot of positive press just now, but he lacks the money and behind-the-scenes talent to make any serious challenge for the Presidency. [Edited by Don W]



Agreed. Obama is a “poster boy” for the Dems that Harold Ford Jr might have been but for the racist inference about him at a Playboy Club feast. Whether Hillary is a “Lightning Rod” for the GOP or not, this is her year and she cannot afford to wait for 2012 or even 2016 should another Dem win. She’ll be in retirement long before then. It’s ‘08 for her or its nothing. You may not agree, Mr J/O, that being only the “smartest” Democrat is enough for a sure win.



It's worth noting that the Hillary camp is gearing up before any making any announcements. She's got a big lead when it comes to money. Quiet recruiting allows her to pick the best and brightest from the Democrat ranks while at the same time cutting a few deals with some of the better freelance gunslingers that she'll need in her bid for the Presidency.



I think you are describing what they call “momentum.” It’s definitely with her right now. I think she must be ‘squeaky” clean or we would already have heard rumors. It goes without saying Bill Clinton is the only player in the game both smarter and with winning experience. I see her most difficult challenge to be how to convince the voters she will be her own person and not be a “yes, Bill” person. I’m not sure how she will carry that off.




I note with some interest that he Republicans are more disorganized than they appear. Several factions have already begun to mis-align in preparation for a really nasty fight that'll prove once and for all just how disorganized the GOP really is in the wake of so many scandals.



Well, all I can say is they brought it on themselves entirely.



I am beginning to detect an undercurrent in some of the conservative blogs which tells me that my long-ago prediction is still on target. It may come to pass that John McCain gets the nomination because nobody else wants it bad enough to suffer the slings and arrows of a jaded public and a vicious mainstream media.



If McCain gets the nomination without losing the hard core right wing religious base, then he can make a formidable run. The Red Blue divide is about 3 million votes. Adding the Green in 2000 to the Dems total, there were 3 million swing voters who put Bush43 into office in 2004. It will again turn on Florida and Ohio. The Dems have Ohio this time which could account for up to 300,000 voters in Ohio, more than enough to win. Florida went GOP except for reelecting Bill Nelson against the GOP embarrassment Katherine Harris and the Attorney General. That may keep the GOP honest here and not let them target 75,000 black voters to disenfranchise. Ohio has voted “right” in every election since 1896.



Obama's current hype is a sham. His rock star popularity stands on a foundation of political sand that could shift at any moment. The Clifton’s have been quietly building their Presidential machine since Bill left office. The '08 race is not a sure thing for them, but they've got it more wired than any of their competition has thought possible. Machiavelli would be proud. I am not glad to see this, but I will acknowledge the skill and cunning that makes it possible.



I dunno, J/O. Every major country has had a woman at the helm and while that fact alone has proved disappointing in terms of raising the level of national morality, it is time the weaker sex got a shot at mucking up the country and the world. EEOC. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 02:53 AM
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I think that the religious right is going to hold it's collective nose and vote for McCain. He has made some good progress when it comes to mending fences, but his stance on immigration and a few other issues will be odius to them. My guess at this point isthat the Senator himself will bang the patriotic drum will waving the old bloody shirt of nationalism. Trouble is, the anti-Republican backlash won't play itself out until 2012.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 06:49 AM
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posted by Justin Oldham

I think the religious right is going to hold it's nose and vote for McCain. He has made progress mending fences, but his stance on immigration and a few other issues will remain odious to them. My guess is that the Senator himself will bang the patriotic drum will waving the old bloody shirt of nationalism. Trouble is, the anti-Republican backlash won't play itself out until 2012. [Edited by Don W]



Depending on your POV, the “Swift Boats” thing may have run its course. Lurking in the dark shadows of my mind is the physical and mental condition of US captive pilots from Vietnam. I know it was harsh but OTOH none of the ones I see on tv have any arms, legs, hands, fingers, ears or noses cut off. Once in official captivity, their survival rate was very high. We never mention the treatment we gave to captured VC and NVA types.

Just as we see in Guantanamo, the longer you hold any prisoner, the less information he has that you need or can use. I’m thinking many if not most of our captives in Vietnam co-operated with the enemy. If I’m right, then I’d not play up too much the “honor” of surviving captivity.

I have recently revisited the Bataan Death March, and I learned that only yes I said only, 3,000 out of 70,000 died on that 120 mile forced march. Whereas on the Trail of Tears - 700 miles - to which our valiant ancestors subjected the Cherokee, between 5,000 and 15,000 died, estimated to be 1 in 6. Which I learned violated the Supreme Court’s ruling handed down by our foremost jurist, John Marshall. Shame on Andrew Jackson forever.

We lost barely any prisoners to the Germans and Italians. For various reasons we have painted our enemies as cruel and inhuman and our surviving POWs as heroes much like the Soviets made Heroes of the Soviet Union. Namely, co-opting anybody useful to our cause.

History Channel has shown the dramatic rescue of the US prisoners on Luzon 2 or 3 times recently, and something that struck me was the prisoners wanting to pack their meager belongings before they left the camp. To even have had belongings did not square with the general treatment of prisoners I had been led to believe was the Japanese rule and not the exception.

I’m saying all this to say John McCain may not want to dwell too much on Vietnam. I heard Karl Rove at Hillsdale College yesterday, and he is lying as usual. Unreconstructed. Undaunted by November 7. Unremorseful, if there is any such word. Lacking any evidence of contrition. A mirror image of his boss, Bush43.





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